Overstay Arrest

[Kabula]

A person recently asked me what the police procedure is with regard to an overstay arrest? I had no answer, but I think it was an important question to get an answer too. After the arrest, is the person allowed to gather personal property and close out fixed savings accounts or are they escorted to the airport when they come up with the funds for a plane ticket and forced to abandon property and money? I recently read where overstays in the future will be blackballed from entering Thailand again. Is this true? If so, one would have to give serious thought about retirement extensions, buying a condo, and any fixed account savings. A simple memory lapse of time could lead to a financial crisis if one is not allowed to gather property, nor wire money out. Has anyone experienced this? Having lived in a Thailand for 8 years, I've heard of people getting arrested on visa runs at Police check points. Also, the elderly are forgetful at times.

[nottocus]

Simple....don't have a memory lapse.

[MYKTHEMIN]

Buy a diary and write down important dates etc very simple really.

[Kabula]

Not that simple! Everyone has memory lapses, or personal emergencies that could create an overstay for a day or two. There are many false arrests. Just being in the wrong place at the wrong time with a group you hardly know. With the new proposed law it appears if you are an overstay for one day and arrested you are black balled for 5 years! Can you imagine having a family here, owning a condo, owning a business, having fixed savings accounts. That could crush most future foreign investment! I really want to hear about the property recovery procedure after the arrest. I have lived in several foreign countries over the last 18 years and to my knowledge no other country has similar harsh penalties. Many try to encourage foreign investment You would think differently if you were over 65!

[tlock]

Ignore those 2, they're just the Thai Visa som nam na bots.

[robblok]

Ignore those 2, they're just the Thai Visa som nam na bots.

Actually those 2 are right on the money. You can put important dates in your phone on a whiteboard ( i got my next 90 day reporting on the whiteboard). For 99,9999 % of the people its more laziness and incompetence and even done on purpose as a real memory lapse.

Though I agree that the complications can get real severe if you overstay and have a condo or other property in Thailand. These new laws don't make it easier to keep property in Thailand.

I think you might have to arrange everything by lawyer then if you want to get your money back and condo sold ect. be prepared to take a heavy hit. However if you have that kind of property a retirement visa (I dont qualify for the age) would be easy for most on Thaivisa. (most are quite old)

[cornishcarlos]

I think you must be having memory lapses already !!

Where did you read 1 day overstay will get you banned for 5 years

[Kabula]

No need for rudeness....a simple question will do. Follow the post to the end for your answer. Apprehension for overstay less than a year.

Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

BANGKOK: -- [thaivisa.com] Over the past two weeks, social media websites such as Twitter and Facebook have been flooded with information on an apparent crackdown by Immigration on foreigners that overstay their visa in Thailand.

Today, Thaivisa.com has been given access to a new Police order proposal that is due to be signed and released imminently, detailing tough new measures for foreigners who overstay in Thailand.

The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:

In the case that alien surrenders themselves:

Overstay more than 90 days > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 1 year.

Overstay more than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 3 years.

Overstay more than 3 years > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

Overstay more than 5 years > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years.

Overstay more than 10 years > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for life.

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

Overstay for more than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 10 years

The current rules regarding overstay is a fine of 500 Baht/day up to a maximum of 20,000 Baht. With regards to arrest, detention, deportation or blacklisting, each individual is reviewed by the Immigration Bureau on a case by case basis.

However, Thaivisa.com must stress that we are still awaiting official confirmation from the Immigration Bureau on this matter.

Immigration has recently taken a number of measures to stop foreign nationals abusing the system which is in place to assist bonafide tourists only and has looked to prevent those who complete regular Out/In border runs from being able to stay in Thailand long term.

News first broke of this crackdown on border runners in Thailand in May, with further confirmation the crackdown would be effective from August 12, 2014.

Thaivisa.com would always recommend to never overstay your visa under any circumstances and always adhere to the rules and regulations when staying in Thailand as detailed by the Immigration Bureau.

[Kabula]

I currently hold a retirement one year extension and practiced law for 25 years. It's doubtful, one could hire a Thai lawyer while outside the country, especially after being arrested and black balled. The first thing they would want to verify with a passport is your identity. I would never take on a new client unless I did a face to face interview in the same country. The only exception would be is if the client was a prior client. However, if he was arrested and blackballed I would have to give the matter serious thought. Everyone with assets, a business or a family in Thailand should give this topic serious thought and follow the proposed law closely in my opinion. If an alien is not given the opportunity to recover cash and assets before leaving Thailand, well who would want to take the risk of investing, retiring, and raising a family here?

[khwaibah]

I think you must be having memory lapses already !! Where did you read 1 day overstay will get you banned for 5 years

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

[Braddockrd]

Most lawyers in Thailand never meet their foreign clients. This is particularly so in matters of civil and commercial law.

[crazykopite]

Mr Falang your visa is out of date hat will be 10,000 baht shall we go to the bank or would you prefare deportation !!!!! They will never rid corruption from the Kingdom !!!

[jacko45k]

Not that simple! Everyone has memory lapses, or personal emergencies that could create an overstay for a day or two. There are many false arrests. Just being in the wrong place at the wrong time with a group you hardly know. With the new proposed law it appears if you are an overstay for one day and arrested you are black balled for 5 years! Can you imagine having a family here, owning a condo, owning a business, having fixed savings accounts. That could crush most future foreign investment! I really want to hear about the property recovery procedure after the arrest. I have lived in several foreign countries over the last 18 years and to my knowledge no other country has similar harsh penalties. Many try to encourage foreign investment You would think differently if you were over 65!

If a person can't remember when your permission to stay/visa/extension expires do you think they are fit to have a family, own a condo, business,savings accounts etc etc? That would likely mean they are on a long term visa and need only remember one date a year. I suggest plugging it into an email calendar for a reminder, your telephone, or writing it on a calendar, stick-ups, note on fridge, all the above. If it becomes more important, perhaps people will take it more seriously and not scoff at the rules. My real worry would be for the aged with memory issues, but a wife can help. Anyhow, we are talking of a 90 day lapse of memory for blacklisting.... hardly an accident!

Edited July 8, 2014 by jacko45k

[96tehtarp]

No need for rudeness....a simple question will do. Follow the post to the end for your answer. Apprehension for overstay less than a year.

...snip

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

However, Thaivisa.com must stress that we are still awaiting official confirmation from the Immigration Bureau on this matter.

Question: Under the current rules if an alien is apprehended for overstay how much money is typically required to post bail and buy a ticket out of the county in order to minimize time incarcerated? I'm not inquiring about under the table payments but rather above board legal bail, and payment of the overstay fine under the current rules excluding any fees paid to lawyers and the cost of the flight home.

Follow up question: Same as above with an added charge of being found to be working illegally in Thailand. How much will the fine & the cost of bail be?

I don't suppose a precise answer is possible. However even an answer which provided a high-low range would be helpful.

Edited July 8, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[Kabula]

Many alleged lawyers in a Thailand are not lawyers, but Paralegals, with minimal legal education and experience. The first Thai law office I visited, I asked the man if he was a licensed lawyer and he said he was. He was the only one in the law office other than a secretary. I asked for a bar card or some supporting Photo ID card/wall license issued by the government identifying him as a Lawyer. He got pissed off and asked me to leave. My response was you just confirmed you are not a lawyer! That law office has ads running all over Thailand. The client has a duty for full disclosure to his Attorney. A season lawyer will always have the client sign a retention written agreement. If the client fails to disclose that he was arrested and blackballed from the country, and most contracts would allow the Lawyer to keep the retainer money on the basis of misrepresentation and close the file. If money was owned he could sue the client and get a lien. An ignorant paralegal may take the case, but would be prevented from arguing the case in a court of law. Most government laws no matter where one is, is not favorable to non citizens and most asset cases are heard in a court of law. In that case, I believe the paralegal would have a difficult time referring the case to licensed trial lawyer. The trial lawyer would demand what I would demand. When I researched more about the Thai lawyer education requirements, standards, the regulatory complaint process I was shocked! In my opinion if you leave Thailand without your assets, especially if you are single, and blackballed, you have a nightmare to deal with and recovery would be slim to none, especially after paying expenses! The proposed law does refer to over 90 days, but is still only proposed, complex and could easily be misinterpreted. A simple Scenario would be if someone was approached by a policeman on the street, and a overstayed existed, he was detained, would he be allowed to gather his assets prior to leaving Thailand. That is my primary question and everyone should be asking it with assets and family here?

[stevenl]

Stop panicking, no need at all for that until you know exactly what the new overstay rule will entail.

Personally, I am sure there will not e a rule: one day overstay, blacklisted for 5 years.

[nottocus]

Not that simple! Everyone has memory lapses, or personal emergencies that could create an overstay for a day or two. There are many false arrests. Just being in the wrong place at the wrong time with a group you hardly know. With the new proposed law it appears if you are an overstay for one day and arrested you are black balled for 5 years! Can you imagine having a family here, owning a condo, owning a business, having fixed savings accounts. That could crush most future foreign investment! I really want to hear about the property recovery procedure after the arrest. I have lived in several foreign countries over the last 18 years and to my knowledge no other country has similar harsh penalties. Many try to encourage foreign investment You would think differently if you were over 65!

How difficult is it to remember when you have to leave the country.

If you can't remember this then you shouldn't even have a passport.

[bangkokrick]

Set a Calendar alarm on your telephone. Simple

[thaidel48]

Any one that can have a 3 month memory lapse needs full time care. I have a retirement extension visa and think that I can speak for the majority of those of us with the correct visa's when I say good riddence to all the border runners. Apart from the odd retiree most of them contribute to nothing other than to give the rest of us a bad name.

While I feel sorry for some of them , unfortunately the truth of the matter is if you dont have the cash or whatever reason you cannot forfill the requirements to obtain the visa that you require its time to go home.

[nithisa78]

Hmm, I had the not yet Mrs. in semi-routine medical care in one place. The Mother-in-law at another quite distance further away. Not so routine. Went to get VISA, was originally on my 30 days grace. It became too hot,slow and confusing. Spoke with mature male supervisor. It was hot and slow inside and outside. I told him our story. He told me to carry the documents from the hospitals if I wanted to take my chances. There was some reassurance from his posture that he liked me and sensed it would be okay. It was until I tried to clear the airport after about 45 days over.Could not find the documents or photos after having taken care of, Wuit, Wang, the Mrs and Mum. He was straight faced enough. Had given all my baht away. Tried paying with U.S. money. Oh no. Since I pulled all the cash from 2 - 3 ATM. accounts and gave it to family and friends. Did not think I could get any baht. The Officer was serious about my going to ATM. I got wheeled to nearest one. Got the required money plus 5000bh which the officer would not accept. I returned 45 days later and got married. The beginning of the best days of my life. The previous days not so bad either. These officers are intelligent. If you carry yourself correctly, the are also flexible. It has always been my policy, wherever I am living or visiting for any period of time. Make friends with Top Cop or someone with access. Here in the Mother Land also. Not to break the law but if something venial takes place, it will not be blown out of proportion. Of course being very handsome is always helpful.

[renaissanc]

Not that simple! Everyone has memory lapses, or personal emergencies that could create an overstay for a day or two. There are many false arrests. Just being in the wrong place at the wrong time with a group you hardly know. With the new proposed law it appears if you are an overstay for one day and arrested you are black balled for 5 years! Can you imagine having a family here, owning a condo, owning a business, having fixed savings accounts. That could crush most future foreign investment! I really want to hear about the property recovery procedure after the arrest. I have lived in several foreign countries over the last 18 years and to my knowledge no other country has similar harsh penalties. Many try to encourage foreign investment You would think differently if you were over 65!

These are my thoughts about this.

Every time you go to your local Immigration Office, take along something small to give to the ladies who serve you. Some kanom, for example. Be pleasant to them. If you have a memory lapse about the 90 days reporting or visa date, they'll be forgiving.

The new laws are because there are so many serial overstayers who are working illegally. It's not aimed at punishing people with a one-year visa, married to a Thai, who is late by a day or two. Or who forgets to report for the 90 days by a couple of days.

Show nam jai to the Immigration staff and they'll help you when you forget. This is my experience over the many years I've been living here anyway. So, don't worry!

[John1thru10]

I think you must be having memory lapses already !! Where did you read 1 day overstay will get you banned for 5 years

Here, yesterday. New Rules.

[cornishcarlos]

I think you must be having memory lapses already !! Where did you read 1 day overstay will get you banned for 5 years

In the case that the alien is being apprehended:

Overstay for less than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years.

Exactly, for less than 1 year overstay... Even though 1 day is less than 1 year, do you really think they will be deporting people !!!!

Even now, they don't charge the 500 baht for 1 day overstay.

Some people do have a tendency to panic

[stevenl]

I think you must be having memory lapses already !! Where did you read 1 day overstay will get you banned for 5 years

Here, yesterday. New Rules.

Rules which have not yet been announced, let alone that the details are known.

Just wait until you know exactly, and start moaning after that.

[ubonjoe]

From now on any discussion of the announced possible new overstay rules will be removed as off topic on this topic. You can make comments about those on that topic. Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

This topic is about getting arrested for overstay.

[cornishcarlos]

Not sure about anyone else but I have never even been asked for my passport (except at immigration office or the airport).

So unless you have done something illegal, the chances of getting arrested for overstay are pretty minimal.

So behave, have the right visa and even a few days due to lack of memory/illness should not land you in jail

[96tehtarp]

Not sure about anyone else but I have never even been asked for my passport (except at immigration office or the airport).

For several years running now I have been getting stopped regularly while on public transport in the border areas. This is on the road from Lom Sak to Mukhdahan at 3AM, Trat-Had Lek, and Tak-Mae Sot. This is where there is a problem with human trafficking of illegal migrants from neighboring countries.

On the Tak-Mae Sot road one can expect to be asked for passport anywhere between 3-5 times, and they are now paying closer attention to western foreigners.

In the past the police ignored western aliens. That changed in the past year well prior to this latest coup. Now they always ask me for my passport, and recently the immigration officer noticed my overstay of one day. He allowed me to proceed to the border to clear it.

My questions in post #14 in this thread asks, if I had access to funds, what would it have cost me to get out of the mess if I had been arrested for that overstay under the current rules? I assume at least 24 hours in jail, to arrange bail. But what then?

[ubonjoe]

My questions in post #14 in this thread asks, if I had access to funds, what would it have cost me to get out of the mess if I had been arrested for that overstay under the current rules? I assume at least 24 hours in jail, to arrange bail. But what then?

Their would be no bail. You would have to pay the overstay fine to immigration when they turned you over to them.

You might even be allowed to pay 1900 baht for 7 days to leave the country if you had the funds available

There is no real reason to have to worry about getting caught on the way to the border. You can go to immigration and apply for a 7 day extension, pay 1900 baht and be given 7 days to leave. If you were already on an overstay you would pay the fine and get the 7 days.

[cornishcarlos]

Not sure about anyone else but I have never even been asked for my passport (except at immigration office or the airport).

For several years running now I have been getting stopped regularly while on public transport in the border areas. This is on the road from Lom Sak to Mukhdahan at 3AM, Trat-Had Lek, and Tak-Mae Sot. This is where there is a problem with human trafficking of illegal migrants from neighboring countries.

On the Tak-Mae Sot road one can expect to be asked for passport anywhere between 3-5 times, and they are now paying closer attention to western foreigners.

In the past the police ignored western aliens. That changed in the past year well prior to this latest coup. Now they always ask me for my passport, and recently the immigration officer noticed my overstay of one day. He allowed me to proceed to the border to clear it.

My questions in post #14 in this thread asks, if I had access to funds, what would it have cost me to get out of the mess if I had been arrested for that overstay under the current rules? I assume at least 24 hours in jail, to arrange bail. But what then?

If you really think you are going to be arrested for 1 day overstay then you must lead a very stressful existence...

Smile, apologize and be on your way

[96tehtarp]

My questions in post #14 in this thread asks, if I had access to funds, what would it have cost me to get out of the mess if I had been arrested for that overstay under the current rules? I assume at least 24 hours in jail, to arrange bail. But what then?

There would be no bail. You would have to pay the overstay fine to immigration when they turned you over to them.

You might even be allowed to pay 1900 baht for 7 days to leave the country if you had the funds available.

There is no real reason to have to worry about getting caught on the way to the border. You can go to immigration and apply for a 7 day extension, pay 1900 baht and be given 7 days to leave. If you were already on an overstay you would pay the fine and get the 7 days.

Thanks very much ubonjoe for clearing that up.

The last sentence in your reply suggests that overstay fines can be paid at an immigration office. I think most people are not aware that this is possible. Was I under the false impression that we could only pay the overstay fine at the border or airport when exiting Thailand?

It would be a relief for many to know that if we found ourselves in a short overstay that we could go to the local immigration office and explain our excuse for overstay, pay the 500 baht fine per overstay day and apply for and pay 1900 baht for a seven day extension to get organized and leave Thailand. This without having to fear being arrested and imprisoned. If this is so it looks to me like a very reasonable and fair policy.