married with Thai, landoffice denied lease on land

[NoBrains]

What can be the reason that a landoffice denies to have a lease contract if you a Falang married to a Thai?

[gamini]

I dont understand your question. You as a foriegner can lease land for 30 years.

For instance my wife bought a property with the money I gave her as a present. She leased it to me for 30 years and then we had the chanote stamped by the Amphur that it was leased to me. No problem. This is a perfectly legal procedure. I would suggest that if you do have a problem you get a lawyer

[japsportscarmad]

Do you speak Thai? if not take someone with you then you will know what's been said at the office.

[naboo]

You need a 3rd party in on the agreement for your protection.

If just you and your wife, on divorce all contracts between married partners become void. With the 3rd party in place, the contract stays in place.

Speak to a lawyer.

[NoBrains]

I dont understand your question. You as a foriegner can lease land for 30 years.

For instance my wife bought a property with the money I gave her as a present. She leased it to me for 30 years and then we had the chanote stamped by the Amphur that it was leased to me. No problem. This is a perfectly legal procedure. I would suggest that if you do have a problem you get a lawyer

Some of people I know ( falang ) are married with a Thai, they gave cash to the wife to buy the property, the property is then on name of the wife right ? Then the falang and wife must sign some docs that the cash comes from the wife. It will be a non-marital item.

When you divorce no rights what so ever.

The falang wants a 30 year lease contract on the property, the landoffice denied as the falang was married with the Thai.

They said it was not possible when you married to get a lease on the chanote where the wife is owner of the land.

I suppose a land office gets instructions from higher hand and we try to get any info if this stipulated by some law.

If so then all falang which have a lease on the wife's chanote can be throw out with a divorce.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

if the land was owned by your wife they would refuse on the grounds you were trying to control the land illegally

also any contract between a husband and wife is invalid in thailand

[likewise]

let me throw in my 2 cents; back in 2008 we bought a property where we live in. In 2010 I wanted a 30 year lease and it was also refused at land office, took a lawyer with us and it was clearly explained that there can be no "legal" 30 year lease between husband and wife.

Now about losing the house in case of divorce is also a hoax.

My close friend is a lawyer and told me if we can proof, bank statements that the funds of any assets that we bought came from abroad originating from your accounts in your homeland, all should be sold and divided between husband and wife, doesn't matter if it was bought before of after the marriage.

[recycler]

You can not lease land from your wife if you are legally married in Thailand.

[NoBrains]

Section 1466 and 1469 explaines that contracts between man and wife are void.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/thai-marriage-and-contracts-between-husband-and-wife.html

Which means all leases between man and wife registered on the chanote are void

Edited July 13, 2014 by NoBrains

[Bpuumike]

Section 1466 and 1469 explaines that contracts between man and wife are void.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/thai-marriage-and-contracts-between-husband-and-wife.html

Which means all leases between man and wife registered on the chanote are void

What's the case if I lease the land from my TGF and we subsequently marry. Does the usufruct remain valid?

[likewise]

Section 1466 and 1469 explaines that contracts between man and wife are void.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/thai-marriage-and-contracts-between-husband-and-wife.html

Which means all leases between man and wife registered on the chanote are void

What's the case if I lease the land from my TGF and we subsequently marry. Does the usufruct remain valid?

I'd suggest asking a lawyer about that, just to make sure

[janpharma]

I dont understand your question. You as a foriegner can lease land for 30 years.

For instance my wife bought a property with the money I gave her as a present. She leased it to me for 30 years and then we had the chanote stamped by the Amphur that it was leased to me. No problem. This is a perfectly legal procedure. I would suggest that if you do have a problem you get a lawyer

Some of people I know ( falang ) are married with a Thai, they gave cash to the wife to buy the property, the property is then on name of the wife right ? Then the falang and wife must sign some docs that the cash comes from the wife. It will be a non-marital item.

When you divorce no rights what so ever.

The falang wants a 30 year lease contract on the property, the landoffice denied as the falang was married with the Thai.

They said it was not possible when you married to get a lease on the chanote where the wife is owner of the land.

I suppose a land office gets instructions from higher hand and we try to get any info if this stipulated by some law.

If so then all falang which have a lease on the wife's chanote can be throw out with a divorce.

Play it safe and contact a law office; they will probably advise you to make a "Usufruct"-contract with your wife so that you can use the property for lifetime...

Good Luck!

[chiang mai]

Section 1466 and 1469 explaines that contracts between man and wife are void.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/thai-marriage-and-contracts-between-husband-and-wife.html

Which means all leases between man and wife registered on the chanote are void

What's the case if I lease the land from my TGF and we subsequently marry. Does the usufruct remain valid?

Lease the land or lease the property? If the latter, I'm certain it is allowable since the arrangement was made before marriage.

As for usufruct being allowed: some districts will permit these, others will not. We went to see our lawyer last week about a house nearby, her phone call revealed the district in question permits usufruct, others do not - I am not legally married to Mrs CM.

[belg]

is it that the lease giver is your wife, than it would be invaled, right

[Sophon]

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You need a 3rd party in on the agreement for your protection.

If just you and your wife, on divorce all contracts between married partners become void. With the 3rd party in place, the contract stays in place.

Speak to a lawyer.

if the land was owned by your wife they would refuse on the grounds you were trying to control the land illegally
also any contract between a husband and wife is invalid in thailand

Section 1466 and 1469 explaines that contracts between man and wife are void.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/thai-marriage-and-contracts-between-husband-and-wife.html

Which means all leases between man and wife registered on the chanote are void

It's not quite accurate to say that contracts between spouses are void/invalid or that they become void on divorce. What is correct is that such contracts can be voided by either spouse at any time during the marriage or up to one year after a divorce. If neither spouse wishes to void the contract, the contract is perfectly legal.

It's an important distinction as, while you cannot make a contract with your spouse that protects you against him/her in case of a divorce, the contract will be legal and protect your rights should your spouse die.

Sophon

[stgrhe]

OP, forget leasing! The best way to do it is to register a superficies, alternatively usufruct, on the land. Both can be registered for life.

[gamini]

I dont understand your question. You as a foriegner can lease land for 30 years.

For instance my wife bought a property with the money I gave her as a present. She leased it to me for 30 years and then we had the chanote stamped by the Amphur that it was leased to me. No problem. This is a perfectly legal procedure. I would suggest that if you do have a problem you get a lawyer

Some of people I know ( falang ) are married with a Thai, they gave cash to the wife to buy the property, the property is then on name of the wife right ? Then the falang and wife must sign some docs that the cash comes from the wife. It will be a non-marital item.

When you divorce no rights what so ever.

The falang wants a 30 year lease contract on the property, the landoffice denied as the falang was married with the Thai.

They said it was not possible when you married to get a lease on the chanote where the wife is owner of the land.

I suppose a land office gets instructions from higher hand and we try to get any info if this stipulated by some law.

If so then all falang which have a lease on the wife's chanote can be throw out with a divorce.

My mistake. I never registered our marriage in Thailand. So I suppose we were not considered married when I got the lease.

[Greg Nixon]

Why I would never NEVER EVER bring my money to Thailand. I am renting here. you are at the whim of local authorities. The rule of law does not exist here. Every authority can have different rulings and their word is law. Even my Thai wife will not question random rulings by school secretaries.

The police can randomly decide you are guilty and no matter what you do, you are.

[chiang mai]

Why I would never NEVER EVER bring my money to Thailand. I am renting here. you are at the whim of local authorities. The rule of law does not exist here. Every authority can have different rulings and their word is law. Even my Thai wife will not question random rulings by school secretaries.

The police can randomly decide you are guilty and no matter what you do, you are.

You might find it hard to believe but there are laws in this country and they apply to everyone, there's also a pretty decent legal system. The idea that the police will suddenly show up at your door one day with some trumped up charge and throw you in jail or give you a large fine, is absolute rubbish.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What is correct is that such contracts can be voided by either spouse at any time during the marriage or up to one year after a divorce. If neither spouse wishes to void the contract, the contract is perfectly legal.

This is exactly what Thai family law says regarding any legal agreements executed between two people AFTER they are married to each other.

[monkeycountry]

I dont understand your question. You as a foriegner can lease land for 30 years.

For instance my wife bought a property with the money I gave her as a present. She leased it to me for 30 years and then we had the chanote stamped by the Amphur that it was leased to me. No problem. This is a perfectly legal procedure. I would suggest that if you do have a problem you get a lawyer

Some of people I know ( falang ) are married with a Thai, they gave cash to the wife to buy the property, the property is then on name of the wife right ? Then the falang and wife must sign some docs that the cash comes from the wife. It will be a non-marital item.

When you divorce no rights what so ever.

The falang wants a 30 year lease contract on the property, the landoffice denied as the falang was married with the Thai.

They said it was not possible when you married to get a lease on the chanote where the wife is owner of the land.

I suppose a land office gets instructions from higher hand and we try to get any info if this stipulated by some law.

If so then all falang which have a lease on the wife's chanote can be throw out with a divorce.

The land office, like most other offices, can and will make up rules as they go, which is why there are different rules in most government offices around Thailand. Immigration offices are a good example of that.

Basically there will be some central laws, but implementation and interpretation of those laws will be up to the boss at each land office.

You can always ask what the reason for them declining the lease is, but logic and reason is rarely used when making decisions, and the land office officials are not used to people questioning their decisions, they are therefore likely to give you a blank stare if you ask them why they will not grant you a lease and repeat "cannot/mai dai" a few more times.

Edited July 14, 2014 by monkeycountry

[Krataiboy]

When my Thai wife and I went to the land office to register the house I had bought for her, we asked to register a lease agreement giving me security of tenure. The manager told me this was not legal but could be done if I handed over 20,000 baht.

I told the guy that I didn't think it was worth me risking deportation for breaking Thai land laws just so I could line his pocket. So he never got his money and I never got my lease. Just have to trust the missus, I guess!

[hugh2121]

2years ago I bought a house in my Thai gf name and registered a separate 30 year lease at the land office with rent paid in advance for 30 years. Not a problem then. However, I understand that the army(NCPO) have decided that this practice is illegal as the house is bought with a foreigner's money. The Thai owner now MUST prove that it was bought from her own money and show where she got this money e.g. savings over period of time; bank loan; profits from a business etc. A gift from a foreigner, as I understand the new ruling, does not qualify and the house could become forfeit. Maybe the land office have been advised of this.

I understand also that the above information is not yet official.

Edited July 15, 2014 by hugh2121

[likewise]

2years ago I bought a house in my Thai gf name and registered a separate 30 year lease at the land office with rent paid in advance for 30 years. Not a problem then. However, I understand that the army(NCPO) have decided that this practice is illegal as the house is bought with a foreigner's money. The Thai owner now MUST prove that it was bought from her own money and show where she got this money e.g. savings over period of time; bank loan; profits from a business etc. A gift from a foreigner, as I understand the new ruling, does not qualify and the house could become forfeit. Maybe the land office have been advised of this.

I understand also that the above information is not yet official.

Has got nothing to do with the NCPO, we applied for a 30 year lease in 2010 and already back then they refused to make up a lease between spouses !

[kannot]

I dont understand your question. You as a foriegner can lease land for 30 years.

For instance my wife bought a property with the money I gave her as a present. She leased it to me for 30 years and then we had the chanote stamped by the Amphur that it was leased to me. No problem. This is a perfectly legal procedure. I would suggest that if you do have a problem you get a lawyer

Some of people I know ( falang ) are married with a Thai, they gave cash to the wife to buy the property, the property is then on name of the wife right ? Then the falang and wife must sign some docs that the cash comes from the wife. It will be a non-marital item.

When you divorce no rights what so ever.

The falang wants a 30 year lease contract on the property, the landoffice denied as the falang was married with the Thai.

They said it was not possible when you married to get a lease on the chanote where the wife is owner of the land.

I suppose a land office gets instructions from higher hand and we try to get any info if this stipulated by some law.

If so then all falang which have a lease on the wife's chanote can be throw out with a divorce.

The land office, like most other offices, can and will make up rules as they go, which is why there are different rules in most government offices around Thailand. Immigration offices are a good example of that.

Basically there will be some central laws, but implementation and interpretation of those laws will be up to the boss at each land office.

You can always ask what the reason for them declining the lease is, but logic and reason is rarely used when making decisions, and the land office officials are not used to people questioning their decisions, they are therefore likely to give you a blank stare if you ask them why they will not grant you a lease and repeat "cannot/mai dai" a few more times.

I had this when getting a usufruct in Pranburi, it took the Wife to call the Bangkok land office and for them to tell the Pranburi office how to do it and also on what page of the rule book to look. Incredible

We got the "cannot" also, my advice is to persevere but keep it polite.

However youll find its probably at the land officers discretion which is absurd...........as we all know!!

[Khunangkaro]

We live in house on 3.3 rai. The land is registered on two chanots.

One chanot was written before our marriage(off.amphor) with my Thai wife's maiden name .

The other chanot written after marriage with my wife's name using my family name for which I signed it was not bought with my money.

Later we went to Land Office to register usufruct in my name on both chanots. At first denied then, when I showed copy of usufruct from "falang" friend done at same Office, we waited for about an hour of consideration after which usufruct was registered with our same family name on both chanots and fees a few hundred baht.