Demonstrators burn Israeli flags at Embassy Protest in Bangkok

[chongtak]

Its sad to see innocent people die.

But i see no hate towards their people the HAMAS who are responsible for escalating this!

Hamas, a terrorist organization, purposefully fires missiles from civilian homes, schools and mosques and orders it's people to form human shields around these launch sites so when Israel responds

To react against the bad people who kill dozens of our people, lets kill hundreds of their families. Do you think its fair? If the hamas are terrorists, then the government of Israel is exactly the same.

[Lingba]

I just don't understand what the thrill is that people find in hating and killing other people because of their faith or religious beliefs..all that time and energy placed into such actions that do nothing to better you as an individual..its mind boggling.. Whats the point?...

[Morch]

The reason that so many Palestinians are willing to martyr themselves, is because their life under Israeli occupation is unbearable.

There is just nothing to really live for, as it is like one giant concentration camp. It is un-substaiable in it's current form. At some point, when you

torture people & confiscate everything they have, they are going to push back.

I hope that day will come sooner than later.

you're misguided in your assumptions nobrainer, how would you like to live in a city where

hundreds of rockets being lobbed at you indiscriminately days and night?

Have you seen a consecration camps that the enemy supply them with food, medicine, electricity,

water, fuels, banking service, hospital service have their own repetitive in the government and

the senate?

They have plenty to live for, build a country and stop lobbing rockets and abduct kill innocent young kids

and take all that money you spend on armament and terrorism to built a country for you selves...

Not half as misguided as you ezzra.

I would go crazy living in a blockaded area where every so often I could be blown to bits by a 1 tonne bomb, where I cannot import building materials to reconstruct my bombed-out neighbourhood, where I'm not allowed to travel out of the Apartheid-like enclave, where my friends are not allowed to visit me, where I can't go fishing for fear of my boat being sunk, where my hospitals and schools are bombed just like everywhere else and where I voted for a government denied power because of external forces (Israeli & US) go out of their way to prevent reconciliation in my country.

They cannot build a country without Israeli permission - that's the reality. More hatred is being generated from this atrocity but the Israelis don't care - they're a bloodthirsty lot (not all of them though) and they'll bomb them again the next time it flares up.

When traffic was allowed between Israel and the Gaza Strip, there were suicide bombers. When traffic was disallowed between Israel and the Gaza Strip, there are rockets launched. When the Hamas had a political disagreement with the Fatah, they slaughtered their rivals.

Egypt maintains the blockade on its side of the border. Egypt could nullify most of the Israeli restriction tomorrow. It does nothing of the sort. Egypt does not get half the flack Israel does for the same.

The Israeli attacks do not occur out of context. The Israeli attacks might have something to do with Hamas actions.

The Hamas government is not recognized as representing the Palestinians by most Arab and Muslim countries. The Hamas government itself did not recognize the PA government for a while, it still does not recognize Israel.

The Palestinian reconciliation agreement was far from a done deal. The PA did not agree to pick up the tab for Hamas debts and pay officials. The Hamas did not agree to hand over control of its military wing and apparatus. The Hamas did not agree to renounce their armed struggle against Israel, despite the PA being committed. The Islamic Jihad and other organizations did not agree to these terms as well. The Palestinian reconciliation agreement was a nice photo op, it was not going anywhere, with or without Israel.

The Hamas cannot build a country, because no one recognized Gaza Strip as a separate country from Palestine. The Hamas could have taken the chance when it rose to power, and make Gaza an example of how things could be done peacefully. Sadly this did not happen.

[khunken]

No rockets (which incidentally didn't kill anyone) or no civilian bombings in Gaza has been a chicken and egg conundrum ever since the blockade. It's nothing but bloodthirsty revenge which will create as many more Israel-haters as the two previous atrocities on Gaza.

Iron Dome saw to it that no Israeli's have been killed by rocket fire..............yet

Great so why the bloodthirsty revenge? Israel went overboard over the killing of the 3 Israeli youths by accusing Hamas - without proof - imprisoning hundreds of Palestinians, killing around 5 and that's 'just ok'.

Previous rockets-for-bombs exchanges have been started by Israel and some by Palestinians. Always the death toll for Palestinians is far higher - it just doesn't make sense, unless you support killing as a part of collective punishment.

[chongtak]

I just don't understand what the thrill is that people find in hating and killing other people because of their faith or religious beliefs..all that time and energy placed into such actions that do nothing to better you as an individual..its mind boggling.. Whats the point?...

It's very simple, Palestinians are under occupation and they resist to it, that makes them terrorists. When the Americans fought against the British and killed many of them, when the Thai fought the Burmese at bang rajan, when the Frenchmen resisted (la resistance) against the Germans and killed many of them, they were all called heroes. Everybody has the right to fight for freedom, but Palestinians and Huygurs are called terrorists.

[gemini81]

I just don't understand what the thrill is that people find in hating and killing other people because of their faith or religious beliefs..all that time and energy placed into such actions that do nothing to better you as an individual..its mind boggling.. Whats the point?...

Its not so much beliefs even; its dispute over the fact that one nation was pounded by bombs to bring a new one into existence in 1948; that will cause serious dispute anywhere. Just playing it off as religion doesn't work; that is a concept of people, of faith. Its that fact that there are reactions to the actions of a long time nation being swindled out of what was theirs. Can't play the race or religion card either; as there are both zionists and Judaists there. It was about money, power and greed- a problem of human nature, isn't it? (ok, especially for the Rothschilds, who funded it by the banks, right?!!!) Inbreeding and greed??

Edited July 15, 2014 by gemini81

[Jingthing]

I just don't understand what the thrill is that people find in hating and killing other people because of their faith or religious beliefs..all that time and energy placed into such actions that do nothing to better you as an individual..its mind boggling.. Whats the point?...

It's very simple, Palestinians are under occupation and they resist to it, that makes them terrorists. When the Americans fought against the British and killed many of them, when the Thai fought the Burmese at bang rajan, when the Frenchmen resisted (la resistance) against the Germans and killed many of them, they were all called heroes. Everybody has the right to fight for freedom, but Palestinians and Huygurs are called terrorists.

You didn't address the actual question. Talking about the RACISM here, not resistance to Israel's policies. BTW, Gaza is not under occupation. West bank is.

[harryfrompattaya]

Disgusting to see this racist protest in Thailand.

The Thais are forgetting about South Thailand

[Jingthing]

I just don't understand what the thrill is that people find in hating and killing other people because of their faith or religious beliefs..all that time and energy placed into such actions that do nothing to better you as an individual..its mind boggling.. Whats the point?...

Its not so much beliefs even; its dispute over the fact that one nation was pounded by bombs to bring it into existence in 1948; that will cause serious dispute anywhere. Just playing it off as religion doesn't work; that is a concept of people, of faith. Its that fact that there are reactions to the actions of a long time nation being swindled out of what was theirs. Can't play the race or religion card either; as there are both zionists and Judaists there. It was about money, power and greed- a problem of human nature, isn't it? (ok, especially for the Rothschilds, who funded it by the banks, right?!!!) Inbreeding and greed??

Inbreeding and greed, Jewish bankers ... ? Sounds like classic antisemitic rhetoric.

The U.N. legally created Israel and then multiple Arab countries attacked.

And so it goes ...

Criticism of Israeli policies isn't necessarily antisemitic.

But rhetoric as above clearly is. Please stop it. It's hate speech.

Sincere and reasoned critics of Israeli policies would do more credit to their cause if they can just let go of the racism. But they obviously CAN'T.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Jingthing

[Morch]

you're misguided in your assumptions nobrainer, how would you like to live in a city where

hundreds of rockets being lobbed at you indiscriminately days and night?

Have you seen a consecration camps that the enemy supply them with food, medicine, electricity,

water, fuels, banking service, hospital service have their own repetitive in the government and

the senate?

They have plenty to live for, build a country and stop lobbing rockets and abduct kill innocent young kids

and take all that money you spend on armament and terrorism to built a country for you selves...

Not half as misguided as you ezzra.

I would go crazy living in a blockaded area where every so often I could be blown to bits by a 1 tonne bomb, where I cannot import building materials to reconstruct my bombed-out neighbourhood, where I'm not allowed to travel out of the Apartheid-like enclave, where my friends are not allowed to visit me, where I can't go fishing for fear of my boat being sunk, where my hospitals and schools are bombed just like everywhere else and where I voted for a government denied power because of external forces (Israeli & US) go out of their way to prevent reconciliation in my country.

They cannot build a country without Israeli permission - that's the reality. More hatred is being generated from this atrocity but the Israelis don't care - they'll bomb them again the next time it flares up.

They have plenty of building martials, they go and build tunnels kilometers long to smuggle armaments

and luxury times from Egypt to enrich the Hamas leaders, why instead of building those tunnels they don't build shelters for the populations? with out Israel supplying you with everything, from water electricity and fuel and medicines Gaza would be a desert city, the Hamas is a terrorist organization, and as long as they

run the life of the good people of Gaza the situations will just repast it self over and over again.

The only building materials they have is what's smuggled through the tunnels. They will surely build shelters when Israel allows the building materials to be sent into Gaza. Enrich Hamas leaders? A deliberate lie..

Hamas is no more a terrorist organisation than the Israeli military used state terrorism. In case you (deliberately) are ignorant of the fact - the last election held in all the Palestinian territories voted for Hamas (majority).

When the bloodthirsty Netanyahu (or far more likely a future peaceable leader) is prepared to allow all Palestinians their statehood, they can get on with re-building Gaza and maybe reclaim their agricultural land stolen by the Apartheid-driven wall & fence. Until then this type of atrocity (the third on Gaza) will be repeated and more fanatics created.

What shelters would these be? The Hamas does not invest much in civil defense as such.

They do find the funds and materials to build tunnels into Israel in order to execute terrorist attacks.

Enrich Hamas leaders is not a deliberate lie. Haniyeh turned over the course of few years from a nobody

into a multimillionaire. His family is well invested in real estate. Said family also gets its emergency medical

treatments in Israeli hospitals. His son was stopped a few years ago at the Egyptian border pass with a huge

sum of cash. Mashaal holds the keys to Hamas accounts abroad and himself investing in Qatar real estate.

These are all documented, and there's plenty more.

Elections are a beautiful thing - just how many elections were there since Hamas took power? And what did

happen to the Fatah opposition? Last time I saw they were thrown alive from roof tops. Hamas is desinated

as a terrorist organization by more than one country, sometimes this is specified only for its military wing, though.

Israel does not occupy Gaza. Yet the attack on Israel are from Gaza.

Israel does occupy the West Bank. Yet not much attacks from the West Bank.

[Morch]

No rockets (which incidentally didn't kill anyone) or no civilian bombings in Gaza has been a chicken and egg conundrum ever since the blockade. It's nothing but bloodthirsty revenge which will create as many more Israel-haters as the two previous atrocities on Gaza.

Iron Dome saw to it that no Israeli's have been killed by rocket fire..............yet

Great so why the bloodthirsty revenge? Israel went overboard over the killing of the 3 Israeli youths by accusing Hamas - without proof - imprisoning hundreds of Palestinians, killing around 5 and that's 'just ok'.

Previous rockets-for-bombs exchanges have been started by Israel and some by Palestinians. Always the death toll for Palestinians is far higher - it just doesn't make sense, unless you support killing as a part of collective punishment.

What would constitute a proportionate response in your learned opinion?

And please, avoid a diatribe, I'm truly interested to know, on a local/military/tactic level what would be considered not

over the top in your eyes.

After that you could go and look at the time line, see when rockets were launched and how these dated fit with the

search for the killers.

As for no proof - the two killers are definitely Hamas people, and so it the accomplice in custody.

[davidmann]

its terrible world we live in what i see is muslim are quite happy killing other muslim /jews ,and anybody of any faith and those of no faith ,look no further than south thailand ,teacher ,seem not to have much luck teaching non muslim kids ,,my kids grew up in muslim country in the past it was 100% safe ,maybe all the trouble is not muslims really ,just the devils on earth ,like cancer ,decease have to be cured or killed

[Morch]

They have a choice of not firing rockets at all. No rocket fire, there would have been no Israeli response. Hamas deliberately uses human shields and yes they know the inevitable civilian deaths are excellent propaganda fodder at time like these, they are willing to martyr their own for this. Keep in mind Hamas is openly dedicated to put an end to Israel. That's different than an entirely reasonable Palestinian statehood movement ...

This is typical propaganda from someone who pretends that 'both sides' are at fault.

No rockets (which incidentally didn't kill anyone) or no civilian bombings in Gaza has been a chicken and egg conundrum ever since the blockade. It's nothing but bloodthirsty revenge which will create as many more Israel-haters as the two previous atrocities on Gaza.

Human Shields is a lie. People defending their own property are not human shields. Rachel Corrie was not a human shield but deliberately run over by an Israeli military bulldozer.

Of course the anti-Hamas propaganda is trotted out again when they have absolutely no power to 'put an end to Israel'. Brainless. There is a distinct possibility that they would recognise Israel if Israel would recognise Palestine.

BTW I don't agree with the anti-Jewish part of the protests but that's what Israel portrays itself as - a Jewish state.

Human shields are a lie.

So when Hamas calls to people to go up on the roofs to thwart attacks, that's not using human shields. And when Hamas launches rockets from within densely populated urban areas, that's also not using human shields. And when Hamas tells civilians to disregard Israeli warnings to clear before impeding attacks, that's not using human shields.

The Hamas never offered to recognize Israel. Israel does recognize the PA as the Palestinian representative. So does most of the world.

[Naam]

What is it with this people that follow Islam?? Every time they get pissed about something they always burn crap!! Talk about stone-age thinking!! Ugg Ugg we have fire!!!!

you consider the Israeli flag crap?

[khunken]

The reason that so many Palestinians are willing to martyr themselves, is because their life under Israeli occupation is unbearable.

There is just nothing to really live for, as it is like one giant concentration camp. It is un-substaiable in it's current form. At some point, when you

torture people & confiscate everything they have, they are going to push back.

I hope that day will come sooner than later.

you're misguided in your assumptions nobrainer, how would you like to live in a city where

hundreds of rockets being lobbed at you indiscriminately days and night?

Have you seen a consecration camps that the enemy supply them with food, medicine, electricity,

water, fuels, banking service, hospital service have their own repetitive in the government and

the senate?

They have plenty to live for, build a country and stop lobbing rockets and abduct kill innocent young kids

and take all that money you spend on armament and terrorism to built a country for you selves...

Not half as misguided as you ezzra.

I would go crazy living in a blockaded area where every so often I could be blown to bits by a 1 tonne bomb, where I cannot import building materials to reconstruct my bombed-out neighbourhood, where I'm not allowed to travel out of the Apartheid-like enclave, where my friends are not allowed to visit me, where I can't go fishing for fear of my boat being sunk, where my hospitals and schools are bombed just like everywhere else and where I voted for a government denied power because of external forces (Israeli & US) go out of their way to prevent reconciliation in my country.

They cannot build a country without Israeli permission - that's the reality. More hatred is being generated from this atrocity but the Israelis don't care - they're a bloodthirsty lot (not all of them though) and they'll bomb them again the next time it flares up.

When traffic was allowed between Israel and the Gaza Strip, there were suicide bombers.

When traffic was disallowed between Israel and the Gaza Strip, there are rockets launched.

When the Hamas had a political disagreement with the Fatah, they slaughtered their rivals.

Egypt maintains the blockade on its side of the border.

Egypt could nullify most of the Israeli restriction tomorrow. It does nothing of the sort.

Egypt does not get half the flack Israel does for the same.

The Israeli attacks do not occur out of context.

The Israeli attacks might have something to do with Hamas actions.

The Hamas government is not recognized as representing the Palestinians by most Arab and Muslim countries.

The Hamas government itself did not recognize the PA government for a while, it still does not recognize Israel.

The Palestinian reconciliation agreement was far from a done deal.

The PA did not agree to pick up the tab for Hamas debts and pay officials.

The Hamas did not agree to hand over control of its military wing and apparatus.

The Hamas did not agree to renounce their armed struggle against Israel, despite the PA being committed.

The Islamic Jihad and other organizations did not agree to these terms as well.

The Palestinian reconciliation agreement was a nice photo op, it was not going anywhere, with or without Israel.

The Hamas cannot build a country, because no one recognized Gaza Strip as a separate country from Palestine.

The Hamas could have taken the chance when it rose to power, and make Gaza an example of how things could

be done peacefully. Sadly this did not happen.

You're at it again with your half-right efforts.

The blockade of Gaza was to supposedly prevent weapons being openly brought in. It has long since just been a way of locking down the residents as a virtual permanent punishment for voting Hamas.

Hamas did kill Fatah members but why omit that Fatah killed Hamas members in greater Palestine?

Egypt does maintain the blockade but have often opened the gates as well as turning a blind eye to the tunnels. Egypt has been bribed by a large US grant to 'play ball'. If the Muslim Brotherhood were allowed to govern, a potentially different attitude to the blockade was imminent.

The initiation of the rocket firings and civilian bombings have sometimes been started by Israel and sometimes by Hamas. This time Hamas started the rockets in response to Israel locking up as many of their members as they could find and killing a few Palestinians (don't know which side).

Hamas is not recognised by many despite winning the last election because of Western (mainly US) pressure and Israel's refusal to talk to them openly - meaning an agreement for a Palestinian state is out of the question (which it is anyway with Netanyahu in charge).

Certainly Hamas doesn't recognise Israel. Neither does Israel recognise Palestine and goes out of its way to prevent Palestine joining international agencies (similar to China & Taiwan).

Yes the reconciliation is not a done deal and will need Fatah's leaders to show bottle in the face of Israeli & US resistance.

Hamas failing to make Gaza a 'paradise'? What a load of crap. Where in all of Palestine have any group been allowed to make it a proper unified country? It is a selection of Bantu-like enclaves with iron-fisted Israeli rule preventing Palestinians from even accessing their fruit gardens, the best land is stolen for more settlements and travelling around is highly restricted (not to Israelis of course).

I'm not blinded by propaganda (as you seem to be) from either side and I know that the Palestinians haven't been total innocents. They currently lack leadership with balls and badly need to reach a level of agreement among themselves on a stance that Israel will be prepared to negotiate with. That is unlikely to happen with both the current leadership on both the Palestinian and the Israeli side.

[theslime]

Fire cracker versus a Missle, lets keep it in context. You take my land, you take my family and I will fight till my last breath,me with my Bow and you with your Gun.

[kuiburi]

^{Been in Israel a long time ago , the person I visited was married to an israeli ex-special forces and infiltrant for the mossad ( he was from iraki origin .)}

^{What suprised me most was that palastinians and israeli's had no problem with eachother at all , atleast where I was .}

^{They had a nice trade going on between them and treated eachother respectfull .}

^{The guy (sadly he died under misterious circumstances ) told me that it was the extremists and and politicians on both sides that caused all the trouble .}

^{That was 20 years ago , and its still the same , this is a conflict that never ends and only has tragedy for many innocent people .}

[Jingthing]

Fire cracker versus a Missle, lets keep it in context. You take my land, you take my family and I will fight till my last breath,me with my Bow and you with your Gun.

What land are you talking about? Israel has no intention of "taking" Gaza. If you're suggesting as does Hamas that Israel doesn't have a right to exist, then you're right, that's going to be an endless FIGHT. Because Israel isn't going anywhere, mate.

[khunken]

No rockets (which incidentally didn't kill anyone) or no civilian bombings in Gaza has been a chicken and egg conundrum ever since the blockade. It's nothing but bloodthirsty revenge which will create as many more Israel-haters as the two previous atrocities on Gaza.

Iron Dome saw to it that no Israeli's have been killed by rocket fire..............yet

Great so why the bloodthirsty revenge? Israel went overboard over the killing of the 3 Israeli youths by accusing Hamas - without proof - imprisoning hundreds of Palestinians, killing around 5 and that's 'just ok'.

Previous rockets-for-bombs exchanges have been started by Israel and some by Palestinians. Always the death toll for Palestinians is far higher - it just doesn't make sense, unless you support killing as a part of collective punishment.

What would constitute a proportionate response in your learned opinion?

And please, avoid a diatribe, I'm truly interested to know, on a local/military/tactic level what would be considered not

over the top in your eyes.

After that you could go and look at the time line, see when rockets were launched and how these dated fit with the

search for the killers.

As for no proof - the two killers are definitely Hamas people, and so it the accomplice in custody.

No response to sarcastic crap only lies which your last sentence is.

[theslime]

Gaza, a horrible Israeli construct. Any ideas on how to have it recinded?

[Jingthing]

Gaza, a horrible Israeli construct. Any ideas on how to have it recinded?

If you're really asking:

1. Israel isn't giving up it's state. Forget about it. Millions of Jews there and most BORN in Israel.

2. Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank can't possibly merge into one super majority Arab state ... that will mean endless sectarian violence even worse than now.

This is the BLOODY Middle East we're talking about, not the San Francisco Bay Area.

3. Two choices, the status quo which is crap for all involved or a compromise where there is a Palestinian state with MAJOR concessions to Israeli security concerns.

Israel will never and should never be expected to agree the latter without those security concessions.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Jingthing

[khunken]

They have a choice of not firing rockets at all. No rocket fire, there would have been no Israeli response. Hamas deliberately uses human shields and yes they know the inevitable civilian deaths are excellent propaganda fodder at time like these, they are willing to martyr their own for this. Keep in mind Hamas is openly dedicated to put an end to Israel. That's different than an entirely reasonable Palestinian statehood movement ...

This is typical propaganda from someone who pretends that 'both sides' are at fault.

No rockets (which incidentally didn't kill anyone) or no civilian bombings in Gaza has been a chicken and egg conundrum ever since the blockade. It's nothing but bloodthirsty revenge which will create as many more Israel-haters as the two previous atrocities on Gaza.

Human Shields is a lie. People defending their own property are not human shields. Rachel Corrie was not a human shield but deliberately run over by an Israeli military bulldozer.

Of course the anti-Hamas propaganda is trotted out again when they have absolutely no power to 'put an end to Israel'. Brainless. There is a distinct possibility that they would recognise Israel if Israel would recognise Palestine.

BTW I don't agree with the anti-Jewish part of the protests but that's what Israel portrays itself as - a Jewish state.

Human shields are a lie.

So when Hamas calls to people to go up on the roofs to thwart attacks, that's not using human shields.

And when Hamas launches rockets from within densely populated urban areas, that's also not using human shields.

And when Hamas tells civilians to disregard Israeli warnings to clear before impeding attacks, that's not using human shields.

The Hamas never offered to recognize Israel.

Israel does recognize the PA as the Palestinian representative. So does most of the world.

More lies. Hamas didn't call for people to go on to their roofs - it defended the residents' decision to do so.

So Hamas should launch rockets from open areas (not too many in Gaza) so Israeli drones could pick them off. Really stupid idea.

Many of the people have nowhere to go. Other houses? just as likely to be blown up. The fact is that collective punishment is wrong except to defenders like yourself who also defend the killing of civilians and twist it into blaming the victims. Just contemptible.

Enough today for me dealing with Zionists.

[Jingthing]

...

Enough today for me dealing with Zionists.

As if Zionist is a dirty word.

Why not show RESPECT to BOTH the Jewish national movement (Zionism) and ALSO the Palestinian national movement? Isn't that a better road to peace than demonizing Zionism?

Edited July 15, 2014 by Jingthing

[IAMSOBAD]

Why are you BLIND...if you are an Israeli supporter?

I can see quite clear who bombs public places...airplanes into buildings...trains...subways...countries.

Its the other guys...not the Jews.

[khunken]

...

Enough today for me dealing with Zionists.

As if Zionist is a dirty word.

Why not show RESPECT to BOTH the Jewish national movement (Zionism) and ALSO the Palestinian national movement? Isn't that a better road to peace than demonizing Zionism?

Ok I'll respond to this one. My understanding of Zionism is that it uses the old testament stories of Jewish power and land to grab all of the areas defined in those stories without regard to the current occupants.

I totally disagree with that but have no problem with the existence of a peaceful Israel within the borders as defined by UN resolutions. I also support the Palestinian people's desire for an independent state free of any outside dominance.

If my definition of Zionism is wrong, no doubt you will tell me and I'll have a look tomorrow.

[bangrak]

I just don't understand what the thrill is that people find in hating and killing other people because of their faith or religious beliefs..all that time and energy placed into such actions that do nothing to better you as an individual..its mind boggling.. Whats the point?...

Its not so much beliefs even; its dispute over the fact that one nation was pounded by bombs to bring it into existence in 1948; that will cause serious dispute anywhere. Just playing it off as religion doesn't work; that is a concept of people, of faith. Its that fact that there are reactions to the actions of a long time nation being swindled out of what was theirs. Can't play the race or religion card either; as there are both zionists and Judaists there. It was about money, power and greed- a problem of human nature, isn't it? (ok, especially for the Rothschilds, who funded it by the banks, right?!!!) Inbreeding and greed??

Inbreeding and greed, Jewish bankers ... ? Sounds like classic antisemitic rhetoric.

The U.N. legally created Israel and then multiple Arab countries attacked.

And so it goes ...

Criticism of Israeli policies isn't necessarily antisemitic.

But rhetoric as above clearly is. Please stop it. It's hate speech.

Sincere and reasoned critics of Israeli policies would do more credit to their cause if they can just let go of the racism. But they obviously CAN'T.

The U.N. has rules, no laws, and how can you say 'legally', when such a 'resolution' would need a UNANIMOUS vote at the Security Counsil first, and that in the case it was just 3 for and 2 against there, and it is an historical FACT too that the French ambassador voted for, AGAINST the instructions of his government... Also, what about the RIGHT of AUTO-DETERMINATION for the local populations, that was just 'forgotten', while many, most, were living there for many centuries, in a multi-cultural society, among them many Palestinian jews, who were segregated too by the incoming, white, settlers?

For much too long the State of Israel, and jewish integrist movements around the world, have been, wrongfully, using the Shoa as an excuse, a justification, for their presence and actions.

Antisemitism must be banned, but no more, no less, than any other form of racism and xenophobia, doesn't that put Israel on the wrong side?

Being against racism and xenophobia, I am against antisemitism, and, partly for the same reasons, being a humanist, I am, totally, against sionism!

The injustices made to the Palestinians are immense, and I will never be able to understand that they were, and are, made to them by the people who have suffered the most for nearly 2 millenia, and have been the prime victims of the horrors of the nazis, and are among the most intelligent human beings, it is incredible, inadmissible, it is unforgivable, this is IMHO the huge black stain on the David starred flag that nothing ever will erase. Shame on you Israel, shame on you sionists!

(I have jewish blood...)

[drand11]

I certainly can take the middle ground on this whole Palestinian/Israili dispute.

But one question for the Pro Palestinians.. Is it "OK" for a nation to elect a Political group that is a certified Terrorist Group, yet still demand recognition?

Don't the Palestinians understand that if they united with Abbas and as a group, minimized/push to the side Hamas, they could probably find peace much

easier. It is difficult to say "Israel, recognize your neighbors, even though their united leadership declares their intent to "Destroy all Jews".

Hamas charity groups, just change your name.

Hamas Gov't Leadership..needs to go away

Hamas militants, must go away and become a security team for Abbas' national Gov't. =

THEN, there can be a deal or at least, more friendly relations.

[drand11]

...

Enough today for me dealing with Zionists.

As if Zionist is a dirty word.

Why not show RESPECT to BOTH the Jewish national movement (Zionism) and ALSO the Palestinian national movement? Isn't that a better road to peace than demonizing Zionism?

Ok I'll respond to this one. My understanding of Zionism is that it uses the old testament stories of Jewish power and land to grab all of the areas defined in those stories without regard to the current occupants.

I totally disagree with that but have no problem with the existence of a peaceful Israel within the borders as defined by UN resolutions. I also support the Palestinian people's desire for an independent state free of any outside dominance.

If my definition of Zionism is wrong, no doubt you will tell me and I'll have a look tomorrow.

but do realize, the add'l land taken by Israel, and in dispute, is land they took after they were attached by Egypt and Lebanon..on 2 fronts. So Israel defeated that attack, pushed it back and took land. That land becomes their's, in Israel's eyes. Hence, Israel has develped this land. Makes sense, right? Isn't it just best to get a Palestinian Gov't to find a peace deal that

- Makes Hamas an illegal group (Like what Egypt did)

- Open up borders to improve the life of the palestinians

- Creates a path in 5 years to a Palestinian state?

Too much arguing for land that truly, is never going to be returned to the Palestinians.

Palestinians should settle up and make peace before they lose more leverage!!

[drand11]

They have a choice of not firing rockets at all. No rocket fire, there would have been no Israeli response. Hamas deliberately uses human shields and yes they know the inevitable civilian deaths are excellent propaganda fodder at time like these, they are willing to martyr their own for this. Keep in mind Hamas is openly dedicated to put an end to Israel. That's different than an entirely reasonable Palestinian statehood movement ...

This is typical propaganda from someone who pretends that 'both sides' are at fault.

No rockets (which incidentally didn't kill anyone) or no civilian bombings in Gaza has been a chicken and egg conundrum ever since the blockade. It's nothing but bloodthirsty revenge which will create as many more Israel-haters as the two previous atrocities on Gaza.

Human Shields is a lie. People defending their own property are not human shields. Rachel Corrie was not a human shield but deliberately run over by an Israeli military bulldozer.

Of course the anti-Hamas propaganda is trotted out again when they have absolutely no power to 'put an end to Israel'. Brainless. There is a distinct possibility that they would recognise Israel if Israel would recognise Palestine.

BTW I don't agree with the anti-Jewish part of the protests but that's what Israel portrays itself as - a Jewish state.

Human shields are a lie.

So when Hamas calls to people to go up on the roofs to thwart attacks, that's not using human shields.

And when Hamas launches rockets from within densely populated urban areas, that's also not using human shields.

And when Hamas tells civilians to disregard Israeli warnings to clear before impeding attacks, that's not using human shields.

The Hamas never offered to recognize Israel.

Israel does recognize the PA as the Palestinian representative. So does most of the world.

More lies. Hamas didn't call for people to go on to their roofs - it defended the residents' decision to do so.

So Hamas should launch rockets from open areas (not too many in Gaza) so Israeli drones could pick them off. Really stupid idea.

Many of the people have nowhere to go. Other houses? just as likely to be blown up. The fact is that collective punishment is wrong except to defenders like yourself who also defend the killing of civilians and twist it into blaming the victims. Just contemptible.

Enough today for me dealing with Zionists.

It is an endless discussion. Hamas, weak and useless, sends endless rockets into civilian neighborhoods.

This immediately justifies Israel to response, mercilessly. No matter what Israel does, Hamas please "Pitty me".

But Israel makes strategic strikes with a reason, Hamas shoots rockets with no clue where the rocket will land. (Are they this stupid after this many years of technology?), I guess yes.

Regardless, Hamas loses every time.. and the Palestinian innocent people lose too.

Seems stupid that the Palestinian people keep looking to Hamas to respresent the people.

They choose the wrong path for personal representation.

[Morch]

you're misguided in your assumptions nobrainer, how would you like to live in a city where

hundreds of rockets being lobbed at you indiscriminately days and night?

Have you seen a consecration camps that the enemy supply them with food, medicine, electricity,

water, fuels, banking service, hospital service have their own repetitive in the government and

the senate?

They have plenty to live for, build a country and stop lobbing rockets and abduct kill innocent young kids

and take all that money you spend on armament and terrorism to built a country for you selves...

Not half as misguided as you ezzra.

I would go crazy living in a blockaded area where every so often I could be blown to bits by a 1 tonne bomb, where I cannot import building materials to reconstruct my bombed-out neighbourhood, where I'm not allowed to travel out of the Apartheid-like enclave, where my friends are not allowed to visit me, where I can't go fishing for fear of my boat being sunk, where my hospitals and schools are bombed just like everywhere else and where I voted for a government denied power because of external forces (Israeli & US) go out of their way to prevent reconciliation in my country.

They cannot build a country without Israeli permission - that's the reality. More hatred is being generated from this atrocity but the Israelis don't care - they're a bloodthirsty lot (not all of them though) and they'll bomb them again the next time it flares up.

When traffic was allowed between Israel and the Gaza Strip, there were suicide bombers.

When traffic was disallowed between Israel and the Gaza Strip, there are rockets launched.

When the Hamas had a political disagreement with the Fatah, they slaughtered their rivals.

Egypt maintains the blockade on its side of the border.

Egypt could nullify most of the Israeli restriction tomorrow. It does nothing of the sort.

Egypt does not get half the flack Israel does for the same.

The Israeli attacks do not occur out of context.

The Israeli attacks might have something to do with Hamas actions.

The Hamas government is not recognized as representing the Palestinians by most Arab and Muslim countries.

The Hamas government itself did not recognize the PA government for a while, it still does not recognize Israel.

The Palestinian reconciliation agreement was far from a done deal.

The PA did not agree to pick up the tab for Hamas debts and pay officials.

The Hamas did not agree to hand over control of its military wing and apparatus.

The Hamas did not agree to renounce their armed struggle against Israel, despite the PA being committed.

The Islamic Jihad and other organizations did not agree to these terms as well.

The Palestinian reconciliation agreement was a nice photo op, it was not going anywhere, with or without Israel.

The Hamas cannot build a country, because no one recognized Gaza Strip as a separate country from Palestine.

The Hamas could have taken the chance when it rose to power, and make Gaza an example of how things could

be done peacefully. Sadly this did not happen.

You're at it again with your half-right efforts.

The blockade of Gaza was to supposedly prevent weapons being openly brought in. It has long since just been a way of locking down the residents as a virtual permanent punishment for voting Hamas.

Hamas did kill Fatah members but why omit that Fatah killed Hamas members in greater Palestine?

Egypt does maintain the blockade but have often opened the gates as well as turning a blind eye to the tunnels. Egypt has been bribed by a large US grant to 'play ball'. If the Muslim Brotherhood were allowed to govern, a potentially different attitude to the blockade was imminent.

The initiation of the rocket firings and civilian bombings have sometimes been started by Israel and sometimes by Hamas. This time Hamas started the rockets in response to Israel locking up as many of their members as they could find and killing a few Palestinians (don't know which side).

Hamas is not recognised by many despite winning the last election because of Western (mainly US) pressure and Israel's refusal to talk to them openly - meaning an agreement for a Palestinian state is out of the question (which it is anyway with Netanyahu in charge).

Certainly Hamas doesn't recognise Israel. Neither does Israel recognise Palestine and goes out of its way to prevent Palestine joining international agencies (similar to China & Taiwan).

Yes the reconciliation is not a done deal and will need Fatah's leaders to show bottle in the face of Israeli & US resistance.

Hamas failing to make Gaza a 'paradise'? What a load of crap. Where in all of Palestine have any group been allowed to make it a proper unified country? It is a selection of Bantu-like enclaves with iron-fisted Israeli rule preventing Palestinians from even accessing their fruit gardens, the best land is stolen for more settlements and travelling around is highly restricted (not to Israelis of course).

I'm not blinded by propaganda (as you seem to be) from either side and I know that the Palestinians haven't been total innocents. They currently lack leadership with balls and badly need to reach a level of agreement among themselves on a stance that Israel will be prepared to negotiate with. That is unlikely to happen with both the current leadership on both the Palestinian and the Israeli side.

When talking about the blockade, how do you mean "it has long since just been a way of locking down the residents.."? Did the weapon smuggling ever stop? Did the not renew full steam ahead when it was briefly alleviated? There is no real danger there, then?

I did not omit anything regarding the Fatah, we were dealing with Hamas and Gaza, not with all the aspects of the inter- Palestinian disputes. The point was that Hamas does not adhere to acceptable norms when it comes even to Palestinian politics. It was partly in response to an attempt at portraying Hamas as a totally legit organization.

Egypt does not have relevant fears as to terrorism within its borders and in connection with the Gaza Strip? Egypt does not have responsibilities taken to keep the peace along the Israeli border? The Egyptian army was bribed to overthrow the Hamas? Seriously? Was this before or after the military aid got frozen? And the one bribing them was the same USA president who was all for the Muslim Brotherhood's ascent to power?

Most of the Arab and Muslim countries support the PA as the legitimate Palestinian representative. This is all due to USA pressure, then? They have absolutely no preference and reasons of their own to prefer the PA? Did the Hamas recognize Israel? Did it change its rhetoric and declared aims towards Israel? Israel recognizes the PA as the Palestinian government representing the Palestinians - there is no Palestinian state at this time to be recognized, and the PA is the closest thing to it. Not recognizing the Hamas does not equate with not recognizing Palestine. Israeli efforts to prevent the Palestinians from various international organizations are indeed pathetic and ultimately, a failure - this does not have anything to do with Hamas.

The reconciliation deal troubles were all about US and Israeli pressure, then? Only, the USA actually took a stand of wait and see, not taking outright steps against the PA. And as stated - there are core issues plaguing this agreement which were not finalized. The PA's refusal of payment for Hamas officials and clearing debts have nothing to do with USA or Israeli pressure, more of an internal Palestinian issue. And then there's the control over the military wing of the Hamas.

Did I say anything about paradise? I only said they had a chance to make it a showcase for how things could work, instead they made it a horror show of how things go bad. It was the Hamas who cut himself off politically from the PA, not Israel's doing. And the rest of this is probably a more fitting description for the West Bank, not the Gaza Strip. You seem to have some trouble not mixing the two areas.

Just to make things clearer for you - Palestinians are better off in the West Bank in comparison with those in the Gaza Strip. May not be such a great situation their in, to say the least, but its not as horrid as living in Gaza. There are certainly areas in which access and travel restrictions by Israel are unreasonable and totally wrong. However, this does not apply within the Gaza Strip. In addition, most areas under the PA's control (that would be area A and to some extent area B ) are restricted for Israelis. Same goes for Gaza Strip, Israelis are not freely allowed in.

I'm am not at all blinded by propaganda, simply accessing more sources than most people posting here. Israel is by far the stronger party and coupled with its heritage, ought to be better than this. Netanyahu and his ilk are making things worse, and I think I made my opinion about illegal settlements and settlers pretty clear by now. That said, I'm all too aware, who is on the other side of the fence, and they are just as bad, in some cases worse (this specifically refers to Hamas & Co.).

It is quite amazing that people keep on treating both sides as if each got a unified front or anything approaching that - there are deep divisions and power plays going on within the two societies. When it comes to the Palestinians, would do well to keep in mind the distinction between certain groups (and to some extent, within these groups), and the distinction between the different realities in both of the Palestinian areas.

Now tell me more about half-right efforts...