Second Thai suspect retracts confession in train murder case of 13-year-old girl

[webfact]

Second suspect retracts confession in murder case



BANGKOK: -- The second suspect who acted as a lookout for the rapist murderer of the 13-year-old girl on train retracted his confession claiming he was threatened by the police to confess.

Metropolitan police deputy commissioner Pol Maj Gen Thitirach Nonghanpitak who is in charge of the rape and murder case of the 13-year-old girl, said the second suspect Natakorn Chamnan, 19, alias Nueng, has retracted his confession of acting as a lookout for the rapist murderer Wanchai Sangkhao.

He claimed he was threatened with bodily harm by the police if he refused to confess to the crime, the officer said.

The officer said retraction of his confession was what the police have anticipated as it was the legal right of the suspect to defend himself in the prosecution process.

But he said the police have substantial evidence to prove his conspiracy part in the case to the prosecutors and the crime committed by the rapist murderer Wanchai.

The police submitted details of the murder case to the prosecution to prosecute the two suspects today.

Natakorn retracted his confession during the prosecution inquiry.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/second-suspect-retracts-confession-rape-murder-case/

-- Thai PBS 2014-07-16

[Cuchulainn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Artisi]

And therein lies the problem, - he said, they said, I said or (didn't say). Any investigation worth doing would have sort independent confirmation from both parties based on the fact neither were aware of each others stories / discussions etc. But TIT I guess.

[Thai at Heart]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

[UbonRatch]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

Or, maybe he can't afford a cork?

[Card]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

Exactly. The police are under pressure to solve a high profile case. So the strategy the police use is this:

Threaten/torture/deprive some poor suspect and/or his family (he may not even be a suspect - just someone who would fit the picture) to the point where he will do almost anything to make them stop. Make it clear to the person that they will definitely be convicted on the evidence they have/witnesses etc and offer them the chance for the torture to stop and for him to avoid the death penalty by signing a written confession.

Then they're off to court where the jury/judge believes no innocent person would admit to the heinous crime of murder, therefore he must be guilty. Even if he retracts his confession, it is already working against him.

It works a treat, almost every time. The victim gets life or death and everyone, including many on this forum, feel good. The police get a commendation and media praise. Politicians talk up how they did well to get the Thai police to solve the crime. Job well done. So what's the problem. Be happy.

In the meantime, the murderous children of the great and good are indulging in sex, booze and drug parties in Singapore until the statute of limitations on their crimes run out.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Card

[Robby nz]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

Exactly. The police are under pressure to solve a high profile case. So the strategy the police use is this:

Threaten/torture/deprive some poor suspect (he may not even be a suspect - just someone who would fit the picture) to the point where he will do almost anything to make them stop. Make it clear to the person that they will definitely be convicted on the evidence they have/witnesses etc and offer them the chance for the torture to stop and for him to avoid the death penalty by signing a written confession.

Then they're off to court where the jury/judge believes no innocent person would admit to the heinous crime of murder, therefore he must be guilty. Even if he retracts his confession, it is already working against him.

It works a treat, almost every time. The victim gets life or death and everyone, including many on this forum, feel good. The police get a commendation and media praise. Politicians talk up how they did well to get the Thai police to solve the crime. Job well done. So what's the problem. Be happy.

In the meantime, the murderous children of the great and good are indulging in sex, booze and drug parties in Singapore until the statute of limitations on their crimes run out.

Must thank you for that post, its great to have someone posting on here who knows exactly what happens and how it happens.

Saves reading through screeds of silly theory and at the end still being none the wiser.

Keep up the good work.

[UbonRatch]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

It works a treat, almost every time. The victim gets life or death..

Experienced in this field, are we?

[peachykeen]

Legitimate question - can you actually officially retract a statement/admission in Thailand or can it still be held against you in the court (despite the circumstances that led you to confess)?

Edit: I only ask because if a suspect claims so-and-so officers forced them to confess via whatever extreme measures, you could face a civil suit for defamation since the definition of "proof" here is quite limited.

Edited July 16, 2014 by peachykeen

[ClutchClark]

He should have taken the beating.

His defense would be more believable if he was all banged up.

Were the police aggressive in their interrogation? Most likely.

I recall there were three employees all drinking together. This fellow, the assailant, and a third person.

The only way this kid is getting out of this more serious charge is with corroboration from either a 3rd person or the murderer himself.

[klauskunkel]

Blue chairs...1,2,3,4,5,6 blue chairs...

[Pib]

Confession normally cuts the sentence in half, death sentence to life in prison which eventually gets reduced to 10 to 20 years, etc. It's kinda like a 50% off sale offered by the Thai justice system...confess and get 50% off your sentence...squeal on your cohorts in crime and maybe get an even bigger discount. Yes sir Mr. BIB, I did the crime just like you wrote on the confession document (thanks for doing that because I can't read or write)...where do I mark my X...put my thumb print.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Pib

[ChoakMyDee]

Fascinating picture.

[ClutchClark]

Fascinating picture.

Its a photo of his confession...which had been occupying one of the seats but just got up and left.

[Thai at Heart]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

Exactly. The police are under pressure to solve a high profile case. So the strategy the police use is this:

Threaten/torture/deprive some poor suspect and/or his family (he may not even be a suspect - just someone who would fit the picture) to the point where he will do almost anything to make them stop. Make it clear to the person that they will definitely be convicted on the evidence they have/witnesses etc and offer them the chance for the torture to stop and for him to avoid the death penalty by signing a written confession.

Then they're off to court where the jury/judge believes no innocent person would admit to the heinous crime of murder, therefore he must be guilty. Even if he retracts his confession, it is already working against him.

It works a treat, almost every time. The victim gets life or death and everyone, including many on this forum, feel good. The police get a commendation and media praise. Politicians talk up how they did well to get the Thai police to solve the crime. Job well done. So what's the problem. Be happy.

In the meantime, the murderous children of the great and good are indulging in sex, booze and drug parties in Singapore until the statute of limitations on their crimes run out.

Absolutely, the system is a joke. God knows how many plead guiilty or are set up as fall guys for others to take the rap, confess, do good behaviour and wait for a pardon a few years later.

The police look good, and someone gets to walk away.....

[joecoolfrog]

Its an emotional and high profile case , it would be politically expedient if a swift and positive resolution occured . In these circumstances how confident can we be of an independent judiciary and a fair trial ?

I dont know the answer so am not casting any assertions re the Thai justice system , but I do wonder if so much pre trial speculation is helpful.

This was a ghastly crime and I am as keen as anybody to see the guilty parties prosecuted , dont though want to get my pound of flesh from a convenient scapegoat.

[wabothai]

Lawyers !!!!!

[Card]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

It works a treat, almost every time. The victim gets life or death..

Experienced in this field, are we?

You don't have to have experience, there are plenty of expert opinions from those who have and case histories on the internet to form conclusions. You just have to do a search, if you can be bothered.

As an example in the UK, just look up on Wikipedia, the case of the Guildford 4 and Maguire 7. To quote from that: "After their arrest, all four defendants confessed to the bombing under torture by British police.^[2] These statements were later retracted, but nonetheless formed the basis of the case against them.'

I wondered at the time, why their mugshots after being charged showed such damage if they had been in police custody. They were later exonerated after serving 16 years in jail. If that happens in the UK, think about it in Thailand.

The death penalty should be abolished everywhere - it is mainly used as a punishment for the poor and powerless and does not deter. It should be replaced by full life terms with the possibility of appeal any time during the sentence to protect the innocents. Convicting innocents for murder happens all the time, even in the west - almost 300 between 1995 and 2014 in the UK alone - check the internet for that statistic.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Card

[belg]

would not come as a surprise if this duo has other rapes on the trains on their activity, taking turns

sickening

[Halion]

The sad part is that it is a know fact that extractions of confessions by means of physical and mental intimidation are a known part of the RTP playbook.

[joecoolfrog]

Belg

I suspect you may be right , these two may even form part of a large, organised ring . Such details are only likely to emerge if a proper investigation is launched including the issues of staff supervision and emloyment procedures.

Do you see such an investigation happening , with action taken against ALL guilty of poor practice , regardless of individual rank or status ?

[Travel2003]

And therein lies the problem, - he said, they said, I said or (didn't say). Any investigation worth doing would have sort independent confirmation from both parties based on the fact neither were aware of each others stories / discussions etc. But TIT I guess.

So you have inside information about how the local investigators do it, and what they found out so far?

Do tell us.

[Paulzed]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

Exactly. The police are under pressure to solve a high profile case. So the strategy the police use is this:

Threaten/torture/deprive some poor suspect and/or his family (he may not even be a suspect - just someone who would fit the picture) to the point where he will do almost anything to make them stop. Make it clear to the person that they will definitely be convicted on the evidence they have/witnesses etc and offer them the chance for the torture to stop and for him to avoid the death penalty by signing a written confession.

Then they're off to court where the jury/judge believes no innocent person would admit to the heinous crime of murder, therefore he must be guilty. Even if he retracts his confession, it is already working against him.

It works a treat, almost every time. The victim gets life or death and everyone, including many on this forum, feel good. The police get a commendation and media praise. Politicians talk up how they did well to get the Thai police to solve the crime. Job well done. So what's the problem. Be happy.

In the meantime, the murderous children of the great and good are indulging in sex, booze and drug parties in Singapore until the statute of limitations on their crimes run out.

Absolutely, the system is a joke. God knows how many plead guiilty or are set up as fall guys for others to take the rap, confess, do good behaviour and wait for a pardon a few years later.

The police look good, and someone gets to walk away.....

Sounds exactly like the Western Australian Justice system.

[oldsailor35]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

Exactly. The police are under pressure to solve a high profile case. So the strategy the police use is this:

Threaten/torture/deprive some poor suspect and/or his family (he may not even be a suspect - just someone who would fit the picture) to the point where he will do almost anything to make them stop. Make it clear to the person that they will definitely be convicted on the evidence they have/witnesses etc and offer them the chance for the torture to stop and for him to avoid the death penalty by signing a written confession.

Then they're off to court where the jury/judge believes no innocent person would admit to the heinous crime of murder, therefore he must be guilty. Even if he retracts his confession, it is already working against him.

It works a treat, almost every time. The victim gets life or death and everyone, including many on this forum, feel good. The police get a commendation and media praise. Politicians talk up how they did well to get the Thai police to solve the crime. Job well done. So what's the problem. Be happy.

In the meantime, the murderous children of the great and good are indulging in sex, booze and drug parties in Singapore until the statute of limitations on their crimes run out.

Or go to Surat Thani and become a monk.

[peecee]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

Exactly. The police are under pressure to solve a high profile case. So the strategy the police use is this:

Threaten/torture/deprive some poor suspect and/or his family (he may not even be a suspect - just someone who would fit the picture) to the point where he will do almost anything to make them stop. Make it clear to the person that they will definitely be convicted on the evidence they have/witnesses etc and offer them the chance for the torture to stop and for him to avoid the death penalty by signing a written confession.

Then they're off to court where the jury/judge believes no innocent person would admit to the heinous crime of murder, therefore he must be guilty. Even if he retracts his confession, it is already working against him.

It works a treat, almost every time. The victim gets life or death and everyone, including many on this forum, feel good. The police get a commendation and media praise. Politicians talk up how they did well to get the Thai police to solve the crime. Job well done. So what's the problem. Be happy.

In the meantime, the murderous children of the great and good are indulging in sex, booze and drug parties in Singapore until the statute of limitations on their crimes run out.

Ask Rolf Harris about statute of limitations!

[Card]

When the discount for a confession is so large, the obvious incentive is to confess to anything, particularly when possibly threatened with the death penalty.

Exactly. The police are under pressure to solve a high profile case. So the strategy the police use is this:

Threaten/torture/deprive some poor suspect and/or his family (he may not even be a suspect - just someone who would fit the picture) to the point where he will do almost anything to make them stop. Make it clear to the person that they will definitely be convicted on the evidence they have/witnesses etc and offer them the chance for the torture to stop and for him to avoid the death penalty by signing a written confession.

Then they're off to court where the jury/judge believes no innocent person would admit to the heinous crime of murder, therefore he must be guilty. Even if he retracts his confession, it is already working against him.

It works a treat, almost every time. The victim gets life or death and everyone, including many on this forum, feel good. The police get a commendation and media praise. Politicians talk up how they did well to get the Thai police to solve the crime. Job well done. So what's the problem. Be happy.

In the meantime, the murderous children of the great and good are indulging in sex, booze and drug parties in Singapore until the statute of limitations on their crimes run out.

Ask Rolf Harris about statute of limitations!

Why should I? What's he got to do with anything?

[Confuscious]

With the video from the police hitting the suspect on the head going viral it was a matter of time before they would turn this story into their favor.

Expect all suspect being released because of 1 incompetent cop.

What the hell was he thinking when he hit the man on the head in front of a camera?

Pay them peanuts and you get monkeys for the job.

[dcpo]

Well, if there's one thing I have absolute faith in it's the integrity of the Thai police.

[Artisi]

And therein lies the problem, - he said, they said, I said or (didn't say). Any investigation worth doing would have sort independent confirmation from both parties based on the fact neither were aware of each others stories / discussions etc. But TIT I guess.

So you have inside information about how the local investigators do it, and what they found out so far?

Do tell us.

If you care to read what I said, which was "any investigation" not the investigation for this murder case, so it follows I was discussing in general terms - to lay charges so as not to egg on your face (the police) at a later date it would be normal to get confirmation from all parties that have been charged / involved with any "crime" and to also compare all independent stories for the detail to see if they match or not.

[rametindallas]

Blue chairs...1,2,3,4,5,6 blue chairs...

Ah, ah, ah, six, six blue chairs. - the Count on Sesame Street https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJxKvwMIVtA