The Class System in Thailand?

[ravip]

The Aristocracy and Commoners.

What are the differences between the two?

[buhi]

I am opting out, carry on others if you please, but not me!

[Suradit69]

The Class System in Thailand?

As opposed to the Thai class system.

Probably based in part on how much you contribute to the economy and to society, so guess who doesn't even move the needle on the class-o-meter.

[laolover88]

Well this an improvement on trying to unravel the Visa System!

One thing that emerges, of course, is why foreigners are difficult to accommodate within the Thai mind set. Some have tattoos and money but clearly, married to a bar girl in Sisaket have no 'class', even if they have a house and a Fortuner. Others have education, and age, but not so much money!!

Another difficulty is that it is problematic that, as foreigners, generally speaking, do not work in Thailand, nor own land, nor have, except by association a Thai family, it is nearly impossible to slot them into a social hierarchy.

I think the OP's original post missed two categories. One was obviously ownership of land; though as Tywais references show this has changed over the years, the second is a register to determine where someone might fit into the patronage/phu yai/grengjai system.

Even though I am a foreigner, I am old, I dress and behave in ways that Thais recognise as, at least, being 'not poor', I speak Thai and Lao and a few other things, my wife owns land, we have a nice house and cars; we give money to schools etc. We employ people. We have friends who are policemen and military.....so we live in a kind of virtual Thai society. But I am not Thai, nor Chinese, well..in this Incarnation......so I am a conundrum. Now if all of the above applied and I was Thai I could probably be put in the right box. One thing of interest is that my wife is 'old money' and 'old family of the province' and that seems to count..bit like English 'county folk!!'

And then there is Hi-So, which actually is not that important..It is like any other country where people push there way to 15 minutes of fame based on singing, acting, looks, fashion. People here seem to admire their verve and talent; but soon forgotten!

[Grateful farang]

Firstly: I would say money.

Secondly: I would say if you can kick someone's head off their shoulders in a muay thai fight, then you'll be high up the social ladder.

Thirdly: if you work for goldman sachs,jp morgan chase, wells fargo, hsbc, citi bank, merle lynch, bank of america of some other big bank, that will definitely help too!

[robert888d]

A lot is based on skin colour. The whiter you are wow and the darker you are ugh! It's sad and racist but true.

[khunPer]

From my observations it’s a combination of several of David’s suggestion in the poll, but “money” and “social standing” are probably the most important, then “family” (parents), “connections” and “personal wealth”; and to a certain degree “marriage/partner”, as one can marry into higher social status, for example the little farmer girl up Isaan getting married to a farang often will rise in class, and her whole family may move up as well.

I have noticed my own, if you can say “class” in the local community, and the change from when my Thai GF and I just rented a bungalow (hardly anyone knew we had bought land) till we build a house; and as that house by the locals were considered valued within the higher end of (financial) status level, also the location (the land plot), we moved really up in the society – suddenly everybody know our names, wai and say »sawadee khun…« – well, there may be a number of other factors as well, but the building construction were the main mover. So it seems “Money Number One”.

We always hear about Thai status – or “class” system – and how one Thai will know how to wai one of higher class or status, may be difficult to separate as money may bring someone up in middleclass but not equally high in status…? A monk is of higher status, but has no earthly wealth.

Observing the local community, family relations or parents also seems very important. The children of the deceased “King-of-Village” (formerly head-of-village by locals called “king of…”, maybe he was self-declared “king of…” or “mafia boss”…?) has self-understood high-class status, as least for a period of time, then they may need to prove something themselves. One married into the “King-of-Village” family moves up to that family’s status. An elected Head-of-Village have more status than before he was elected; however he may already need some status level to be elected. The original locals were I live are Chinese, and I do have a feeling the Chinese are considered, or consider themselves, of higher class than the imported “Black Thais”, the dark skinned from up North who came down here as workers, but who can move up if they become rich enough...

Maybe “skin color” also is a class factor…?

But only some observations, the Thai “class-system” can be a lot more complicated than we aliens will ever understand.

[khunPer]

In a class system, a person born a peasant will always be a peasant. ...

What about a Thai Family ... three sisters, born not that far apart in terms of years.

Sister 1 stays on the Farm and harvests the rice ... just as the generations before her did.

Sister 2 seeks her fame and fortune in Pattaya, makes a shit load of money ... does her 'class' change from that of the sister who stayed on the Farm?

Sister 3 is sent to University, obtains her degree, moves from the Farm to Bangkok, earns a good wage and her presence doesn't reflect the tanned skin of working the fields, nor the qualities of the 'working girl'.

She then goes onto to marry a Dentist, lives in a very nice house, drives a Benz ... has she 'shifted' Class?

.

…and the sister in Pattaya, like a better ”Pretty Woman”, charms a younger very handsome farang guy, who falls in love with her and wish to marry her; a guy who shows to be heir of substantial industrial fortune in Europe. After the marriage she begin studying economy and moves to a luxury apartment in Bangkok, driving limousine with private chauffeur, while not staying at his family-manor in Europe.

Does she shift class…?

[sustento]

http://www.hrsolidarity.net/mainfile.php/1999vol09no06/1018/

[Thongkorn]

Thailand does not have a class system < its called have money,, Dont have money, I got money and i am going to keep it. I don't have money, and i am never going to get it.

[Thongkorn]

A lot is based on skin colour. The whiter you are wow and the darker you are ugh! It's sad and racist but true.

Because you are white, you don't work in the fields, = You have money

You are Brown , you work in the fields = don't have money.

[Bernard Flint]

My 5 years living here says the "class system" is solely based on how much money you have, but it's important where that money came from and the job you hold or business you own. High level government jobs, especially police, military and high level politicians are some of the highest in the system and then successful business people.

It's a sick, disgusting system and is hugely responsible for a dysfunctional government built on corruption.

You missed a very important one

COLOUR OF SKIN

[Bernard Flint]

My 5 years living here says the "class system" is solely based on how much money you have, but it's important where that money came from and the job you hold or business you own. High level government jobs, especially police, military and high level politicians are some of the highest in the system and then successful business people.

It's a sick, disgusting system and is hugely responsible for a dysfunctional government built on corruption.

You missed a very important one

COLOUR OF SKIN

Sadly it seems to have infected farangs too

[Arkady]

The survey omitted to mention skin colour and level of Chineseness. LOL

[Choonpon]

One's dressing is the first impression. And first impression counts.

A rich tycoon dressed in shabby t-shirt and slippers walked into a boutique, compared to a nobody dressed immaculately. Who will get the attention first?

[ATF]

One's dressing is the first impression. And first impression counts.

A rich tycoon dressed in shabby t-shirt and slippers walked into a boutique, compared to a nobody dressed immaculately. Who will get the attention first?

I would tend to disagree. True Class has an air about it. Even in a T-Shirt and flip flops true class always shows through.

Remember when Oprah Winfrey went shopping in Switzerland?

[Choonpon]

One's dressing is the first impression. And first impression counts.

A rich tycoon dressed in shabby t-shirt and slippers walked into a boutique, compared to a nobody dressed immaculately. Who will get the attention first?

I would tend to disagree. True Class has an air about it. Even in a T-Shirt and flip flops true class always shows through.

Remember when Oprah Winfrey went shopping in Switzerland?

I believe Oprah has the True Class air with her, unfortunately the sales woman didn't recognise her. In that case, it's the color.

[trainman34014]

Yes Thailand has a class system.

*satire*

I don't have it.

In general Americans have no class.. same as Ozzies (faulty Brits), but the Brits are famous for their class especially the their football supporters. They are world famous.

*satire*

You forgot our famous 'Lager Louts'. If you want to kick us get the detail right...Lol.

[super22k]

Robblok.What on earth has the British class system to do with football supporters?In the UK it is mainly the way you speak.If you are born into an upper class family you will always be upper class even if you do a jail sentence or are an alcoholic.Take for example the case of Lord Lucan.He murdered his childrens nannie in mistake for his wife.His upper class friends gathered round and helped him escape justice even though he was a murderer.That is class.I am working class Englishman and I quite like the class system.At least you know where you stand.

[palaver]

A lot is based on skin colour. The whiter you are wow and the darker you are ugh! It's sad and racist but true.

There may be an Isaan component to that, based on little I know.

I do know a woman who is a manager at a large insurance company in Bangkok who refuses to identify as Isaan, although she is from there.

[robblok]

Robblok.What on earth has the British class system to do with football supporters?In the UK it is mainly the way you speak.If you are born into an upper class family you will always be upper class even if you do a jail sentence or are an alcoholic.Take for example the case of Lord Lucan.He murdered his childrens nannie in mistake for his wife.His upper class friends gathered round and helped him escape justice even though he was a murderer.That is class.I am working class Englishman and I quite like the class system.At least you know where you stand.

Read my post.. i started saying I had no class.. then I had a go at the Americans then at that Australians and then some of the Brits.

I wrote satire above it.. I expected people to understand I was joking.

I don't like the class system sorry I am just an ignorant Dutch guy who feels that people should be judged on their merits not at their birthright.

[David48]

The survey omitted to mention skin colour and level of Chineseness. LOL

Agreed ... I did miss those two ... thanks ...

To be honest, that's maybe because they mean little to me.

Yet, one of my friends here is a aspirational Hi-So Chinese, white skinned girl.

I just see her as a friend ...

[David48]

One's dressing is the first impression. And first impression counts.

A rich tycoon dressed in shabby t-shirt and slippers walked into a boutique, compared to a nobody dressed immaculately. Who will get the attention first?

I know what you are saying, but I'm not sure that relates to 'Class' ... but it does garner 'Respect', up to a point.

[David48]

http://www.hrsolidarity.net/mainfile.php/1999vol09no06/1018/

Thanks for that ... I'll read it in full later.

For those who haven't clicked the link ...

THAILAND: Sakdina System and Promotion of Human Rights and Democracy

Mark Tamthai

(Ed. note: Mark Tamthai is a professor with the Centre for Philosophy and Public Policy of Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok, Thailand.)

The Sakdina system in Thailand was a system of social hierarchy in place officially until this century, with remnants still existing in different parts of contemporary Thai society. In contrast to some social systems found elsewhere, the Sakdina system was part of the legal system which King Rama I codified under the 3-seal Code (a legal code of more than 1,200 articles) a little over 200 years ago. This code gathered together laws that had been in existence for hundreds of years. In this sense the Sakdina system became institutionalised through the legal system. The essence of the Sakdina system is that different members of society have different social ranks (measured by the unit "Na") depending on their position or nature of work, how people are to behave towards one another as well as how much society considers their "worth" which depends on their Na.

[poweratradio]

Easy - some have it, some don't. You'll know if you have it cause the security guard and parking attendants wai twice...

Has anyone brought up the light/white skinned Thai's verses the darker skinned Thais????? According to my copper tanned wife; the light skinned Thai's are favored for key roles in tv/movies and singing roles and generally are considered upper class.

[sustento]

http://www.hrsolidarity.net/mainfile.php/1999vol09no06/1018/

Thanks for that ... I'll read it in full later.

For those who haven't clicked the link ...

THAILAND: Sakdina System and Promotion of Human Rights and Democracy

Mark Tamthai

(Ed. note: Mark Tamthai is a professor with the Centre for Philosophy and Public Policy of Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok, Thailand.)

The Sakdina system in Thailand was a system of social hierarchy in place officially until this century, with remnants still existing in different parts of contemporary Thai society. In contrast to some social systems found elsewhere, the Sakdina system was part of the legal system which King Rama I codified under the 3-seal Code (a legal code of more than 1,200 articles) a little over 200 years ago. This code gathered together laws that had been in existence for hundreds of years. In this sense the Sakdina system became institutionalised through the legal system. The essence of the Sakdina system is that different members of society have different social ranks (measured by the unit "Na") depending on their position or nature of work, how people are to behave towards one another as well as how much society considers their "worth" which depends on their Na.

And it carries on to this day.

[ATF]

One's dressing is the first impression. And first impression counts.

A rich tycoon dressed in shabby t-shirt and slippers walked into a boutique, compared to a nobody dressed immaculately. Who will get the attention first?

I would tend to disagree. True Class has an air about it. Even in a T-Shirt and flip flops true class always shows through.

Remember when Oprah Winfrey went shopping in Switzerland?

I believe Oprah has the True Class air with her, unfortunately the sales woman didn't recognise her. In that case, it's the color.

I'm sorry but I find it difficult to agree. There are plenty of black African billionaires that shop in Switzerland and the Swiss are very used to them. I would think the saleswoman took her for a fat loud mouthed American black person with absolutely no class and probably thought she was a credit card scammer as well.

Just because someone is rich and famous it doesn't mean they have class or charisma. Look at Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg, I don't see any class or charisma there. I'm sure Morgan Freeman or Shirley Bassey would have been treated a lot differently because they have class.

[burlap]

If you hang around any of the fancy high rise office buildings at lunch or closing time you will notice something striking: almost all of the office workers in the nice clothes are fair skinned and the vast majority of them are ethnic Chinese. If you want to see darker skinned Thai people, look at the guards, janitors, parking lot attendants, restaurant workers, and vendors. It's not that way because the Thais are stupid, or lazy, or want it that way. Unless they are VERY lucky (for instance getting a MD.) There is almost no chance for them to climb the social ladder. There is a strong class system here: The 10% ethnic Chinese control the vast majority of the wealth, and they are determined to keep it that way.

[Datebayo]

It is based on all of your OP mentioned points.

[Datebayo]

If you hang around any of the fancy high rise office buildings at lunch or closing time you will notice something striking: almost all of the office workers in the nice clothes are fair skinned and the vast majority of them are ethnic Chinese. If you want to see darker skinned Thai people, look at the guards, janitors, parking lot attendants, restaurant workers, and vendors. It's not that way because the Thais are stupid, or lazy, or want it that way. Unless they are VERY lucky (for instance getting a MD.) There is almost no chance for them to climb the social ladder. There is a strong class system here: The 10% ethnic Chinese control the vast majority of the wealth, and they are determined to keep it that way.

LOL ''vast majority are ethnic Chinese?'' More likely the vast majority are Lao/khmer/birman mixed heritage using whitening creme, surgery and medications for that pale skin. You don't see the lower classes with white skin because their job pays are so low they can't afford it. The middle and upper class are addicted to those stuff.