I am a 50 yr old American, but am asking this question on behalf of my entire family - wife is 40, sons 20 & 25 - all Americans. We have visited Thailand numerous times over the past several years and as a result, have been saving money and adjusting our lives in preparation to move to Thailand for the past year and a half. Our plan was to move within the next two years.

I have been reading this forum and many other similar forums for the past year or so and have gained a lot of great information. However, the current events and conversations concerning visa rules, TESOL/TEFL's, etc... have my entire family concerned that our grand plan is in danger.

While I am grateful for the anecdotal information posted by so many users here, we need definitive information specific to our situation before the entire family undergoes this move.

Is there anywhere to go to get dependable (as dependable as is possible...lol) information concerning visa's, work permits,etc... We are not wealthy, but would certainly pay a reasonable fee for solid consultation on these matters from a reputable source. Internet searches have thus far only produced "visa run" companies and the like. Are there actual, legitimate and reputable consulting firms that could assist us?

Thanks for any help.

Because our situation is somewhat complicated - 4 people, each with varying levels of education, work experience and skillsets - I have refrained from posting the details here. If possible I would prefer to consult privately with a knowledgeable person rather than attempting to lay out all of the variables in an online forum.

Edited July 19, 201411 yr by waldenguy

A "consulting firm" would be the best place to start sucking your money, thing that without a doubt Thailand will do a great job at.

In few words, unless you're very wealthy, you can't retire in Thailand as a family of four. And is very, very difficult to find work that pays well.

However if you want to start the process with an anticipation of two years , go ahead and listen to the tales you will be told, e.g. the no-funds-needed retirement visa, the Amity Treat company that employs you all and 16 Thais on paper only, the unique chance of owning a boutique resort.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

We are not intending to retire for a bit. My wife and I have solid resumes and intend on working for at least another decade. Our sons original intention was to spend the next year or two in school pursuing what was necessary to teach English - which is something they plan to do regardless of where "home base" will be.
We harbor no illusions of starting a business in Thailand. We simply do not possess the resources or desire for that. I've waded through the mountains of too-good-to-be-true, Thailand-is-a-utopia "deals" so my BS meter has become sensitive enough to avoid all of that. Hence my original question, trying to cut through the anecdotal, the scam-ridden and the ill-informed.

If you look for teaching jobs you will find them provided you have the necessary certifications, about which there is plenty of freely available information here

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/46-teaching-in-thailand-forum/

or other forums (ajarn dot com is one)

You probably know that these are low pay jobs for Western standards.

If you have specific questions I would recommend to browse or ask the resources above.

Anyone without a degree will not be able to work in a school legally (you mentioned TESOL/TEFL). Anyone with a degree can, but Thailand seems to be pushing for teachers to obtain either a B.Ed or M.Ed within 4 years of starting work. You (and others) may or may not qualify for other types of employment if you have a very useful skill set. There is a very helpful and knowledgeable poster on here that could help you. He may not want me to give you his username, but hopefully, he'll fill you in on the rest.

We are not intending to retire for a bit. My wife and I have solid resumes and intend on working for at least another decade. Our sons original intention was to spend the next year or two in school pursuing what was necessary to teach English - which is something they plan to do regardless of where "home base" will be.

We harbor no illusions of starting a business in Thailand. We simply do not possess the resources or desire for that. I've waded through the mountains of too-good-to-be-true, Thailand-is-a-utopia "deals" so my BS meter has become sensitive enough to avoid all of that. Hence my original question, trying to cut through the anecdotal, the scam-ridden and the ill-informed.

for your sons to have secure english teaching jobs, i would recommend they get teaching degrees at university . international schools prefer it.

finding jobs for yourselves might be an issue, as you mention nothing of degrees or if you currently work for a company that has an office here.

A bit of information about yourselves would help others give you good solid advice, and also help you become aware of the situation with jobs in Thailand

My wife has an advanced degree and a great deal of experience in data science and with non-profits. She currently works for a large college (not university). I have a BA and work currently in marketing, but was a technical trainer for over 10 years, as well as stints as a newspaper editor, IT director and graphic designer. we've been monitoring the job market and have applied for the occasional job over the past year and a half.
My sons, however, have not pursued college seriously just yet (but intended to pursue their education in Thailand) and have been working successfully in the service industry while doing a lot of travel over the past few years. I'm not sure, however, that we could fully support them as the pursue their education. So issues such as how does one support oneself while on an Ed Visa arise, among many others.

My wife has an advanced degree and a great deal of experience in data science and with non-profits. She currently works for a large college (not university). I have a BA and work currently in marketing, but was a technical trainer for over 10 years, as well as stints as a newspaper editor, IT director and graphic designer. we've been monitoring the job market and have applied for the occasional job over the past year and a half.

My sons, however, have not pursued college seriously just yet (but intended to pursue their education in Thailand) and have been working successfully in the service industry while doing a lot of travel over the past few years. I'm not sure, however, that we could fully support them as the pursue their education. So issues such as how does one support oneself while on an Ed Visa arise, among many others.

tell the kids to get started on their degrees now and then theyll only have to wait a couple of years to join you in thailand.

I just wondered over the "kids"???? They are 20 and 25 years old. I think it is time to grow up and take care of them selfs.... Maybe they are much better off home in the US, and start their carriers instead of "laying" around here in the retirees-paradise of Thailand...It will be LOST YEARS for these grown up "kids" in the end..

Glegolo

We have visited Thailand numerous times over the past several years and as a result, have been saving money and adjusting our lives in preparation to move to Thailand for the past year and a half. Our plan was to move within the next two years.

My recommendation would be to continue adjusting your lifestyle and saving your money, but hold off making any major decisions until things calm down here in Thailand relative to visas. Between the coup, and the current crackdown on long stay non-residents, there's no way to know exactly what it's going to look like in 2 years. IMO, any money you pay for consultations this year would be wasted in the long term since nobody seems to know what's going to happen next. (FYI, I live and work in BKK- 3+ years now, and do not hold myself out as a visa expert)

In the meantime, I'd also suggest coming up with a Plan-B in case things don't get easier here. No use carefully crafting a life for your family that will come crashing down if the visa situation goes the wrong way.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

.

Gawd a mighty.

You are looking for black and white in a world of gray.

paz is correct... unless you are VERY WEALTHY you shouldn't even think about it. You will be nickled and dimed to death first. Then the lawyers will be called to finish the job.

Your sons want to spend X years time and X tens of thousands getting degrees that will be virtually worthless outside the country?

Have you seen the list of occupations forbidden to foreigners? All of you are basically forbidden already. Thailand tries to protect workers from the very thing you are trying to do: show up from the richest country in the world and put a poor Thai person out of a job, "cuz we like it here".

no no no no no..... big mistake and there are a thousand horror stories archived on here that tell the story.

'nuff said

~

Edited July 20, 201411 yr by 'nuff said

Thanks Impuse, I believe we will be doing a version of that very idea over the next year or two. Because my wife and I have fairly strong resumes we have been getting interest from the companies we've applied to which is promising, but we have some concerns about how our sons will fare. It's very important to all of us to stay together as a unit for at least the next few years. Your recommendation about holding off on any consultation until things settle down is a good thought. I guess it depends in how much someone would set us back for an hour or two informal Q & A session. I appreciate your input.

As for Glegolo's comment:

Ahhh.. in the absence of information how quickly we jump to a negative conclusion. I call them "kids" in the colloquial sense because they are my children, not because of their age.
They are fully grown, can and have been taking "care of themselves." We are a close knit family that has endured some very, very difficult times together, which has made us strong and put us in a position where we prefer approaching life as a unit. A strange concept in some corners, but not in others.

If you will recall from a previous post, I said they intended to pursue their education while in Thailand and I would add that they can only consider that if they can work during that time. Not sure where you got the idea of them "laying around" in what you characterize as a retirees paradise. I'm sure I don't have to tell you, but it seems to bear repeating, that Thailand is a large and diverse country with a lot more to offer than the amenities enjoyed by retirees. My family and I fell in love with the country, the people and the culture. We did not fall in love with the beaches, bar girls, buckets of liquor, or the idea of an easy life. There are some assumptions implicit in your comment that not only are false, but also have a tinge of judgmental overgeneralization. I'll just chalk that up to whatever bad experiences you may have had and wish you all the best!

Just to add that you have picked the wrong time for definitive answer on all these questions -- in say 1-3 months there will be a lot more solid answers (if not ever definitive) to a lot of visa/immigration issues.

I appreciate everyone's input, but as I feared, not understanding the details of our situation is leading to a great deal of speculation. This speculation is resulting in posts that really do not apply to our situation. But here is a bit more info that may help.

My wife and I have applied for and gotten interviews with some large international organizations for some very generous jobs that would satisfy our needs both financially and legally. At issue is how to keep the family unit together for whatever move we make. As I said, my sons have skills that pay well here at home, but will not be of much use within the Thai work rules. We understand that but this is not my 1st rodeo. We have been travelers all of our lives and are not new to dealing with the intricacies and peculiarities of living, working and moving abroad. We're just trying to navigate the rules as they stand, not as any of us wish they would be.

I have no interest in "defending" my son's intentions, plans or motivations in an internet forum so I'm going to attempt to just move on from those comments.

"nuff said" - We're not looking for B&W, we're just looking for advice from a reputable source rather than anecdotal stories off of an internet forum. As I said, we are not retiring. We have very marketable skills and have had a good response from employers within Thailand so far.

Concerning my sons getting degrees that would be useless outside of Thailand...not sure what you mean by that.
Yes we have seen the list of prohibited jobs.... did you read any of my previous comments? We have no intention of "putting a poor Thai person out of a job." How could you possible think that, unless you are just making some egregious assumptions?
And finally, we are not just moving here "because we like it." It's more complicated than that, hence my OP.

I'm going to assume, for now, folks are trying to be helpful and have just had a bad day or need a hug.

In your shoes, my first step would be to contact your local Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate. There are Embassies/Consulates in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles and Miami. Google "Royal Thai Embassy United States" for contact information.

Speak to them directly concerning your situation. My experiences with the New York Consulate are/were positive. Staffed by an American born Thai who spoke perfect English, so communications should not be an issue.

This will give you direct and up-to-date information concerning your plans and the legal criteria you will need to fulfill for your plan(s) to succeed. Visa and work permit legal issues are the most important aspect of your plan. As native English speakers finding employment as English as a Second Language instructors will not be difficult. The pay and benefits, on the other hand, may not be what you expect.

Thanks JLCrab. I've just about exhausted all of my means to get definitive answers (I've resorted to posting here at this point...lol) and keep hearing that it may be best to wait a bit then try for answers again once the powers that be sort it all out on their end.
I appreciate your input.

Thanks Man Who Sold the World, I believe I need to revisit them with this particular issue. They are friendly folks!

I appreciate everyone's input, but as I feared, not understanding the details of our situation is leading to a great deal of speculation. This speculation is resulting in posts that really do not apply to our situation. But here is a bit more info that may help.

My wife and I have applied for and gotten interviews with some large international organizations for some very generous jobs that would satisfy our needs both financially and legally. At issue is how to keep the family unit together for whatever move we make. As I said, my sons have skills that pay well here at home, but will not be of much use within the Thai work rules. We understand that but this is not my 1st rodeo. We have been travelers all of our lives and are not new to dealing with the intricacies and peculiarities of living, working and moving abroad. We're just trying to navigate the rules as they stand, not as any of us wish they would be.

I have no interest in "defending" my son's intentions, plans or motivations in an internet forum so I'm going to attempt to just move on from those comments.

"nuff said" - We're not looking for B&W, we're just looking for advice from a reputable source rather than anecdotal stories off of an internet forum. As I said, we are not retiring. We have very marketable skills and have had a good response from employers within Thailand so far.

Concerning my sons getting degrees that would be useless outside of Thailand...not sure what you mean by that.

Yes we have seen the list of prohibited jobs.... did you read any of my previous comments? We have no intention of "putting a poor Thai person out of a job." How could you possible think that, unless you are just making some egregious assumptions?

And finally, we are not just moving here "because we like it." It's more complicated than that, hence my OP.

I'm going to assume, for now, folks are trying to be helpful and have just had a bad day or need a hug.

your kids dont appear to have skills that will earn them any money in thailand. teaching english in an international school will. but they need a degree. you asked for help, folks tried to give u some. period.

Thanks AyJayDee, I knew they didn't have those skills currently and I really & truly value & appreciate this forum and the information I've gathered from it over the past couple of years. But to be fair, most of these responses are not responses to my actual question, which was:

"Is there anywhere to go to get dependable (as dependable as is possible...lol) information concerning visa's, work permits,etc... We are not wealthy, but would certainly pay a reasonable fee for solid consultation on these matters from a reputable source. Internet searches have thus far only produced "visa run" companies and the like. Are there actual, legitimate and reputable consulting firms that could assist us?"

I sense impatience in your response to my last message, but understand, I asked a fairly specific question and got a lot of info that was not pertinent to my situation, and hence, to my question. I knew when I posted this question that the answer would likely be in the vein of ManWho, Impulse, and your initial response.

Thanks AyJayDee, I knew they didn't have those skills currently and I really & truly value & appreciate this forum and the information I've gathered from it over the past couple of years. But to be fair, most of these responses are not responses to my actual question, which was:

"Is there anywhere to go to get dependable (as dependable as is possible...lol) information concerning visa's, work permits,etc... We are not wealthy, but would certainly pay a reasonable fee for solid consultation on these matters from a reputable source. Internet searches have thus far only produced "visa run" companies and the like. Are there actual, legitimate and reputable consulting firms that could assist us?"

I sense impatience in your response to my last message, but understand, I asked a fairly specific question and got a lot of info that was not pertinent to my situation, and hence, to my question. I knew when I posted this question that the answer would likely be in the vein of ManWho, Impulse, and your initial response.

unbelievable!

I think that the general 'thrust' of what the expats like me are trying to tell you is that you and your wife could make a go of it in Thailand. However, your kids are of an age and profile that at the moment the Thai authorities are targeting (or appear to be targeting) as undesirables - that is unless they are plainly tourists.

The so called visa 'crackdown', which you can read about in other threads in this forum, that is currently underway is so confusing, that until it is fully enforced after 12th August this year, then no one, not even a 'professional consultant', could give you good advice about your situation.

I suspect you need to wait until November this year, when the true affects of this crackdown are understood.

If the crackdown is implemented as the Thai authorities are claiming it will be implemented, then it is doubtful that your kids will be allowed to stay here long term. You need to read some of the 'crackdown' threads here in Thai Visa to understand the issues relating to your kids.

So I am afraid that you have to forget what you have learnt during your period of investigation about your kids options and start again later this year.

To be honest, like many expats over the years, we have seen these 'crackdowns' come and go and after a few months it is business as usual - only time will tell - so best to wait just a few months and post here again.

Good luck - hope it works out for you all.

This is so frustrating. I enjoy reading this forum very much, but it seems so difficult to avoid misunderstandings and confrontational attitudes. If I came off in any way confrontational or negative I sincerely apologize. I fear my attempts to keep the discussion focused on my question and away from the things I knew would be fraught with misunderstandings I could not possibly untangle in this context have been seen as argumentative or something worse.
I hope this doesn't reflect negatively on me when some of us hopefully get together for a beer in the future.

Cheers!

impluse is right -- things are in a state of flux here. Not just for a few months, but likely for a few years. That's not to say it won't make sense to come here in a couple years, but don't try to pin down visa rules now expecting them to be the same rules two years from now and the rules in place two years from now could change in the future.

As for your sons -- you've seen what solid educational background and experience have done for you and your wife in your careers. Your sons are at the stage and geographic location in their lives where they should be pursuing university degrees. A teaching degree from a state school in the U.S. (i.e. University of "pick a state" or "pick a state" State University) is going to be well recognized and accepted internationally and not very expensive if it's done in their home state. They should be doing that now, before they leave for Thailand. Then they'll be able to write their ticket once they get here and won't be in the same labor pool with all the backpacker/teacher wannbes with their freshly minted TEFLs

Edited July 20, 201411 yr by NancyL

Thanks so much dsfbrit and NancyL.

Edited July 20, 201411 yr by waldenguy

Waldenguy, you must feel very frustrated by the feedback your are getting.

Had you posted on here just a few months ago, maybe even weeks ago, then you would have got a much different response.

I would not have posted at all as there would have been many experts that could have advised you about the best options for your kids.

Certainly, as native English speakers, they could probably have got jobs as English teachers over here, even if they did not have the relevant qualifications.

However, even working as an English teacher, involved in many cases, the teacher not having a work permit and having to do regular 'visa runs' to remain in Thailand without becoming an 'overstayer'.

This was a grey area, technically illegal, but ignored by the Thai authorities.

Without a degree, I suspect your kids would have had problems getting a work permit and so would have needed 'visa runs' to live and work here.

This latest crackdown is designed to stop these 'visa runs' and as such could mean that teachers without the relevant qualifications may no longer be able to teach in Thailand.

That is why you are getting such negative feedback. The crackdown is affecting many 'accepted' practices and no one really knows just what the impact will be when the dust settles - no one!

I really suggest you go and read the other threads in this forum about the 'crackdown' and new 'overstayer' (proposed) laws, so you understand why the expat landscape has altered so drastically for those under the age of 50.

If your kids study for a relevant qualification over the next couple of yours, then they would be welcomed as English teachers I am sure and would have no problem getting the work permit they would require.

Good luck.

I thought I had a good job history when I first landed in Thailand, 12 years British Army, years with COLT Telecom, Level 3 Communications and Alcatel, SAP SCM qualified, but it all came to nothing, in the end went into Teaching, but now out of Thailand and in Europe working as a Project Manager for a major Chinese Telecom Manufacturer.

I believe I read in one of your posts about your sons continuing their education here and working, well not gonna happen with an Education Visa, no working allowed. This means if they do continue their education here, you are footing the bills. I would let them continue in the US, then if they want to come over to stay with you okay, if not then let them do their thing in the US.

For advice is there an American Club thing in Bangkok where all Americans can go and also get information, maybe worth going in that direction for advice

You should check out http://www.siam-legal.com but they will most likely tell you what you've been told here.

They will know all the rules and regulations as they stand right now.

Hence my original question, trying to cut through the anecdotal, the scam-ridden and the ill-informed.

I think that planning to move your whole family to Thailand is foolhardy. It was foolhardy a decade ago, it is foolhardy now.

The only really decent place in Asia for a Westerner to raise a family is Singapore (and I include Japan in that assertion). Singapore is boring - but that's what you want when you have a family.

Why in the world would you want to do such a thing?

I don't have children myself, but I can't imagine why someone would want to bring his family to such an unstable place.

Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds to me as if your priorities are badly out of whack.

Let me save you the expense of a consulting fee - what you're planning to do simply doesn't make sense and I suspect that your wife (unless her priorities are badly out of whack, too) knows that it doesn't make sense, and that she's just going along with you because she doesn't think you'll actually do it.

Also, why in the world would your grown sons move with you? That's just bizarre.

Edited July 20, 201411 yr by disambiguated

The only solid information you will get is to be sure that your situation here will be uncertain. I also think it is very solid information to have your kids get an education in the US, no matter the cost. You just can't believe how horrid the colleges are here.... it is beyond words. A bunch of underpaid "professors" that get their material from "I'm feeling lucky" google searches on the current course subject.

Edited July 20, 201411 yr by isawasnake