Gaza and Israel suffer deadliest day

uptheos · July 26, 2014

Does Hamas shoot “rockets” at Israel?

Are you serious? YES and everyone knows it.

Do bears crap in the woods?

Morch · July 26, 2014

Interesting.

So, to get this straight - fearless leader is living a life of luxury, controlling some serious funds supposed to be used for

the benefit of his people, while the same people are being readily sacrificed for the cause and living in the cesspit that

is Gaza....

I can see how carrying on the good fight and not giving an inch on demands serves his people best. Everyone must do

their bit, I guess.

Same goes for Hamas leadership in the Gaza Strip. Most of them down bellow safe and sound, digging in their positions

also on negotiations, while the common people get a raw deal. All them tunnels dug under Gaza could have served as a

rather proper air raid shelters for the masses. For some reason, only some get the benefit.

The people are forced to live out in the open and be killed, so that Hamas can increase its propaganda.

I would have though it clear that the more people Hamas can place in areas that fire rockets and have tunnels, the more TV coverage they will have of dead Palestinians. I doubt if the people on the ground have a choice, it's either stay where you are or we will kill you. Hamas revels in dead Palestinians as well as Israeli's, this is what makes them so evi

If this is the truth, why doesn't Israel present their evidence to a UN investigation? Otherwise it just remains Israeli propaganda.

It could have something to do with the UN investigation not being underway as yet, but again don't let that stop you from making unfounded claims.

Furthermore, said future UN investigation will be actually carried out by the UN Human Rights Council, a body which dedicates about half of its country specific resolution to Israel, and sort of neglects to pay similar attention to human rights violations elsewhere.

It could also be down to the fact that the UN Human Rights Council is not interested. Seeing as the mandate of the special rapporteurs assigned to investigate in the past included details concerning to Israeli conduct rather than the Palestinians.

On another level, there is quite a lot of footage, by both Hamas and Israeli media covering the net of underground tunnels dug under Gaza. I am yet to see one Hamas release showing these being used as bomb shelters for the general populace, rather they tend to highlight their offensive value in carrying out attacks into Israeli territory and as a way to smuggle in goods under the Egyptian border. In much the same way, there are no public broadcasts by Hamas calling on citizens to take shelter, if anything, the opposite - calls to ignore IDF warning and calls for civilians to protect facilities by their presence.

dr_lucas · July 26, 2014

Interesting.

So, to get this straight - fearless leader is living a life of luxury, controlling some serious funds supposed to be used for the benefit of his people, while the same people are being readily sacrificed for the cause and living in the cesspit that is Gaza....

I can see how carrying on the good fight and not giving an inch on demands serves his people best. Everyone must do their bit, I guess.

Same goes for Hamas leadership in the Gaza Strip. Most of them down bellow safe and sound, digging in their positions also on negotiations, while the common people get a raw deal. All them tunnels dug under Gaza could have served as a rather proper air raid shelters for the masses. For some reason, only some get the benefit.

The people are forced to live out in the open and be killed, so that Hamas can increase its propaganda.

I would have though it clear that the more people Hamas can place in areas that fire rockets and have tunnels, the more TV coverage they will have of dead Palestinians. I doubt if the people on the ground have a choice, it's either stay where you are or we will kill you. Hamas revels in dead Palestinians as well as Israeli's, this is what makes them so evi

If this is the truth, why doesn't Israel present their evidence to a UN investigation? Otherwise it just remains Israeli propaganda.

It could have something to do with the UN investigation not being underway as yet, but again don't let that stop you

from making unfounded claims.

Furthermore, said future UN investigation will be actually carried out by the UN Human Rights Council, a body which

dedicates about half of its country specific resolution to Israel, and sort of neglects to pay similar attention to human

rights violations elsewhere.

It could also be down to the fact that the UN Human Rights Council is not interested. Seeing as the mandate of the

special rapporteurs assigned to investigate in the past included details concerning to Israeli conduct rather than the

Palestinians.

On another level, there is quite a lot of footage, by both Hamas and Israeli media covering the net of underground

tunnels dug under Gaza. I am yet to see one Hamas release showing these being used as bomb shelters for the

general populace, rather they tend to highlight their offensive value in carrying out attacks into Israeli territory and

as a way to smuggle in goods under the Egyptian border. In much the same way, there are no public broadcasts by

Hamas calling on citizens to take shelter, if anything, the opposite - calls to ignore IDF warning and calls for civilians

to protect facilities by their presence.

Morch, I just want to salute you for your amazing patience, knowledge, impartiality & writing skills. You definitely know more than most if not all posters here about both sides of the conflict, its history & its complexities than some try to oversimplify & portray. It is pure delight reading your posts. You, sir, are one of Thaivisa's biggest assets! Keep it up!

Morch · July 26, 2014

Hamas is actually more responsible the deaths of those children. They knew what launching rockets from civilian areas would mean. Using the word murder is totally loaded in a war situation.

If a person wishes not to be seen as a rabid Israel demonizer, I would suggest backing off from inflamed rhetoric such as accusing Zionists of being child murderers. That is exactly what anti-semitic Hamas was looking for in their cynical tactic of using human shields. This poison has even been used in some protests to revive the ancient "blood libel" attacks against the Jews.

Get real, OK? It is not Israeli policy to murder innocent children.

No, not policy to murder children. Just accepted practice by the Isareli government and IDF. The idea that somehow the deaths of children fom Israeli bullets, missiles and tank shells is not muder because it lacks "intent" doesn't wash. Of course the IDF does not target individual children. But it targets residences and locations knowing full well that there are likely to be children living there. And it is so negligent in the use of its vaunted technological weaponry that it cannot distinguish between a few boys watching football from a terrorist invasion. That level of negligence combined with trigger happy commanders also constitutes murder.

The intellectual contortions you engage in to try to blame Hamas for these deaths is similar to the Orwellian logic we often see from Netanyahu and his lackeys. Hamas of course bears some responsibility, but nothing like that of the IDF and Israeli government. If Israel had been subject to the same stringent blockade as Gaza has for 7 years, they too would eventually take actions that lead to deaths of people. Would you then blame the Israelis for resisting the blockade? Would not the responsibility rest with those who had blockaded the country and turned it into an open air prison?

Mistakes happen while warfare is conducted in urban residential areas. No amount of technology will change that. Somehow neglecting to address the issue of how come Hamas carries out its operations from within this areas to begin with. How can that be justified?

Trigger happy? Is that based on personal knowledge? Personal bias?

Hamas responsibility is nothing like the IDF's? Could you expand on the rational of this moral claim? Or is it, again, based on the definitive because-I-say-so argument?

Israel has been subjected to certain blockades, bans and boycotts by its neighbors (and other countries) in the past. As far as I recall, the Israeli reaction was not to fire rockets at cities of the neighborhood. The current blockade is also maintained by Egypt, conveniently missing from your post. Many of the issues enhancing the blockade's effect on the life of Gazans have to do with Hamas's insistence on not submitting goods for inspections, disagreeing on procedures for transfer and monitoring over dual use goods, and heaping obstacles when dealing with officials from the PA, Egypt and Israel.

Morch · July 26, 2014

Hamas is actually more responsible the deaths of those children. They knew what launching rockets from civilian areas would mean. Using the word murder is totally loaded in a war situation.

If a person wishes not to be seen as a rabid Israel demonizer, I would suggest backing off from inflamed rhetoric such as accusing Zionists of being child murderers. That is exactly what anti-semitic Hamas was looking for in their cynical tactic of using human shields. This poison has even been used in some protests to revive the ancient "blood libel" attacks against the Jews.

Get real, OK? It is not Israeli policy to murder innocent children.

No, not policy to murder children. Just accepted practice by the Isareli government and IDF. The idea that somehow the deaths of children fom Israeli bullets, missiles and tank shells is not muder because it lacks "intent" doesn't wash. Of course the IDF does not target individual children. But it targets residences and locations knowing full well that there are likely to be children living there. And it is so negligent in the use of its vaunted technological weaponry that it cannot distinguish between a few boys watching football from a terrorist invasion. That level of negligence combined with trigger happy commanders also constitutes murder.

Yes, if that was true, that would indeed constitute murder, but it's just another radical left wingers lie. Recorded evidence that completely contradicts your statements:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXrxLglOoRM&list=UUawNWlihdgaycQpO3zi-jYg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9iiyhoGK08&list=UUawNWlihdgaycQpO3zi-jYg

All very laudable. Why doesn't Israel show all its footage, have it examined by international experts and allow the world to judge transparently?

Do you know of any military force, anywhere in the world - which makes all of its available footage and intelligence reports public?

And of course, similar claims could be raised ad infinitum....can always claim Israel is keeping something back. Which is sort of what the above post was all about.

Morch · July 26, 2014

Hamas is actually more responsible the deaths of those children. They knew what launching rockets from civilian areas would mean. Using the word murder is totally loaded in a war situation.

If a person wishes not to be seen as a rabid Israel demonizer, I would suggest backing off from inflamed rhetoric such as accusing Zionists of being child murderers. That is exactly what anti-semitic Hamas was looking for in their cynical tactic of using human shields. This poison has even been used in some protests to revive the ancient "blood libel" attacks against the Jews.

Get real, OK? It is not Israeli policy to murder innocent children.

No, not policy to murder children. Just accepted practice by the Isareli government and IDF. The idea that somehow the deaths of children fom Israeli bullets, missiles and tank shells is not muder because it lacks "intent" doesn't wash. Of course the IDF does not target individual children. But it targets residences and locations knowing full well that there are likely to be children living there. And it is so negligent in the use of its vaunted technological weaponry that it cannot distinguish between a few boys watching football from a terrorist invasion. That level of negligence combined with trigger happy commanders also constitutes murder.

The intellectual contortions you engage in to try to blame Hamas for these deaths is similar to the Orwellian logic we often see from Netanyahu and his lackeys. Hamas of course bears some responsibility, but nothing like that of the IDF and Israeli government. If Israel had been subject to the same stringent blockade as Gaza has for 7 years, they too would eventually take actions that lead to deaths of people. Would you then blame the Israelis for resisting the blockade? Would not the responsibility rest with those who had blockaded the country and turned it into an open air prison?

So how would you deal with the rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel militarily. are you saying Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself.

Does Hamas shoot “rockets” at Israel?

" Again, the repetitive rhetoric of US/Israel government and corporate media make this claim, based upon Israeli government testimony. The “Qassam rocket” is a homemade projectile that appears to have killed 28 Israelis since 2004.

Israel’s publications admit they don’t know the source of the reported “rockets;” guessing 22% are from Hamas.

Hamas denies launching rockets, affirms a peaceful two-state solution, and we know that Israel violated the last ceasefire agreement (see “Hamas” section).

If Israel is engaged in unlawful war on Gaza, such as subject to military siege by water and land as Israel does by sealing Gaza’s borders and imposing a naval blockade, then any Palestinian is lawfully able to act in defense of Israel’s war acts, including the shooting of homemade rockets. Let’s examine this next topic."

http://www.examiner.com/article/confused-about-hamas-rockets-war-gaza-vital-background-facts

So an article by Carl Herman, who also contributes to the Alex Jones channel and infowars, is the best you can come up with?

Some of the rockets fired are indeed Qassams, pretty short range, although considering how near everything is, still within range. But of course, this conveniently ignores launching of longer range rockets, reaching much further into Israel while also carrying greater payloads.

Total numbers from rockets casualties are somewhat higher (60+), but again, why let that stand in the way of making a silly claim?

The percent of attacks attributed to Hamas refers to short range Qassam rockets only, not inclusive of all rockets types launched. The figures quoted are from an independent Israeli research group, not an official source. The are also dated to 2007.

Hamas does not deny firing rockets. Never affirmed a commitment to a peaceful two-state solution. Ceasefire violations occurred from both sides.

Israel does enforce a blockade, so does Egypt. Israel provide electricity to the Gaza Strip (debts mounting up). Hamas is the one refusing shipments to be inspected by Israel for contraband, military use and double use materials. Hamas is the one making reliable tracking of double use goods in the Gaza Strip, and Hamas is the one resisting PA officials involvement in facilitating these issues.

Presenting the blockade as if it is totally out of context is disingenuous. So is the claim that being under any conditions gives Hamas the right (legal? moral? both?) to fire indiscriminately at Israel and at the same time, place its own civilians at risk when the inevitable retribution is dished out.

Morch · July 26, 2014

DL,

I notice you havent answered the question.

Give Gazans fighter jets with cameras and they maybe they could photo shop their pics too.

I was under the impression that camera and video operate quite well without being airborne. But anyway - http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4545505,00.html

Morch · July 26, 2014

Does Hamas shoot “rockets” at Israel?

Are you serious? YES and everyone knows it.

Yes, 2 rockets that landed harmlessly in fields in the first 2 weeks of June. And for this Netanyahu launched the present round of violence killing 936 Gazans and 38 Israelis - a sledgehammer to crack a nut.methinks he had other motives.

It

Once again, picking an arbitrary point in time as a start date for the conflict. So, there were never rockets launched prior to this, right?

Ulysses G. · July 26, 2014

So an article by Carl Herman, who also contributes to the Alex Jones channel and infowars, is the best you can come up with?

Alex Jones and Infowars. That explains the insane question they use for a title: "Does Hamas shoot “rockets” at Israel?"

Edited July 26, 2014 by Ulysses G.

dr_lucas · July 26, 2014

Seem like our favorite gang of radical left wingers and Israel demoizers found a new "home" to spread their disinformation: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/746218-israel-and-hamas-agree-12-hour-window/

Jay Sata · July 26, 2014

What is interesting in this thread is the very few Thai Visa members participating.

Can't be bothered or just underwhelmed by the lack of decent debate?

johna · July 27, 2014

"Does Hamas shoot “rockets” at Israel?" What an ignorant question.

An entire nation—towns, villages and cities, from the Negev Desert up to the Galilee, from the Judean hills of Jerusalem to the Tel Aviv seashore—has been under brutal and relentless attack, from more than two thousand mortars, rockets and long-range missiles, fired from Gaza toward civilians in every part of the Holy Land.
Never before, in the history of Israel’s seven decades of existence, has its men, women and children come under such a massive aerial assault, forcing them, at the sound of air raid sirens day and night, to run for shelter.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/07/24/hillel-neuer-palestinian-ambassador-called-hamas-missiles-a-crime-against-humanity-why-wont-the-un/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcNdwLmGNSQ&list=PL8E1BA727A0E2DFC0

You continue to misrepresent the facts, it is not Israel that is "under brutal and relentless attack" its Gaza, but the propaganda from Israel supporters to demonize a people who only want their land returned is relentless.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-secret-report-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html

Ulysses G. · July 27, 2014

"Does Hamas shoot rockets at Israel?" What an ignorant question.

An entire nationtowns, villages and cities, from the Negev Desert up to the Galilee, from the Judean hills of Jerusalem to the Tel Aviv seashorehas been under brutal and relentless attack, from more than two thousand mortars, rockets and long-range missiles, fired from Gaza toward civilians in every part of the Holy Land.
Never before, in the history of Israels seven decades of existence, has its men, women and children come under such a massive aerial assault, forcing them, at the sound of air raid sirens day and night, to run for shelter.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/07/24/hillel-neuer-palestinian-ambassador-called-hamas-missiles-a-crime-against-humanity-why-wont-the-un/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcNdwLmGNSQ&list=PL8E1BA727A0E2DFC0
You continue to misrepresent the facts, it is not Israel that is "under brutal and relentless attack" its Gaza, but the propaganda from Israel supporters to demonize a people who only want their land returned is relentless.

More like a people who want to "push Israel into the sea" and have not hidden it. . Edited July 27, 2014 by Ulysses G.

Scott · July 27, 2014

Post deleted for a variety of reasons. Please stay on topic.

dr_lucas · July 27, 2014

"Does Hamas shoot “rockets” at Israel?" What an ignorant question.

An entire nation—towns, villages and cities, from the Negev Desert up to the Galilee, from the Judean hills of Jerusalem to the Tel Aviv seashore—has been under brutal and relentless attack, from more than two thousand mortars, rockets and long-range missiles, fired from Gaza toward civilians in every part of the Holy Land.
Never before, in the history of Israel’s seven decades of existence, has its men, women and children come under such a massive aerial assault, forcing them, at the sound of air raid sirens day and night, to run for shelter.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/07/24/hillel-neuer-palestinian-ambassador-called-hamas-missiles-a-crime-against-humanity-why-wont-the-un/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcNdwLmGNSQ&list=PL8E1BA727A0E2DFC0

You continue to misrepresent the facts, it is not Israel that is "under brutal and relentless attack" its Gaza, but the propaganda from Israel supporters to demonize a people who only want their land returned is relentless.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-secret-report-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html

Last time I checked, the Gazans got their land back on 2005: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

But don't let the facts get in your way.

slipperylobster · July 27, 2014

Although still shocking, the death ratio between the bully and the bullied is getting better.

How are they better? A death to a death is better? Gruesome.

dexterm · July 30, 2014

More than 1,300 Palestinians and 58 Israelis now dead.

The UN said Israel had attacked a UN-run school housing refugees in Gaza, despite warnings that civilians were there. Fifteen people were killed and dozens hurt.

The White House condemned the attack and said it was "extremely concerned" that Palestinians were not safe at shelters despite being told to evacuate their homes by Israel's army.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28571785

.

Jay Sata · July 30, 2014

It is refreshing to see some real genuine impartial comment on here now instead of the usual trolls.

Shame on you Israel for the slaughter of innocent civilians.

Headline here in a UK newspaper

UN: 'world stands disgraced' as shelter for Gaza children is shelled by Israel
The UN agency for Palestinian refugees said the shelling of the school, being operated by the UN as a refugee camp, was a "serious violation of international law"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/world-disgrace-gaza-un-shelter-school-israel

dr_lucas · July 30, 2014

That still constitutes an attack on a nation state. What would America or the UK or any other nation state do?

Its not a nation state - its an illegal occupancy of land

To the reality based, Israel is a nation state.

You don't get it. This is your reality. According to his own reality he is actually right.

According to Hamas, Hezbollah and many Arabs - all of Israel is occupied territories "Palestine stretches from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, and from Naqoura [Rosh Ha-Niqra] to Umm Al-Rashrash [Eilat] in the south".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

Understanding this mentality will make it easier, for some less biased, to understand the huge challenges Israel has to deal with in order to find ways to make peace with them.

p.s. Sent you a message. check your PM

Edited July 30, 2014 by dr_lucas

dr_lucas · July 30, 2014

More than 1,300 Palestinians and 58 Israelis now dead.

The UN said Israel had attacked a UN-run school housing refugees in Gaza, despite warnings that civilians were there. Fifteen people were killed and dozens hurt.

The White House condemned the attack and said it was "extremely concerned" that Palestinians were not safe at shelters despite being told to evacuate their homes by Israel's army.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28571785

.

It is refreshing to see some real genuine impartial comment on here now instead of the usual trolls.

Shame on you Israel for the slaughter of innocent civilians.

Headline here in a UK newspaper

UN: 'world stands disgraced' as shelter for Gaza children is shelled by Israel
The UN agency for Palestinian refugees said the shelling of the school, being operated by the UN as a refugee camp, was a "serious violation of international law"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/world-disgrace-gaza-un-shelter-school-israel

And in other news...

U.N. says more rockets found at one of its Gaza schools

GAZA, July 29 (Reuters) - The United Nations agency that looks after Palestinian refugees said on Tuesday it had found a cache of rockets at one of its schools in the Gaza Strip and deplored those who had put them there.

United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) spokesman Chris Gunness condemned those responsible for placing civilians in harm's way by storing the rockets at the school but he did not specifically blame any particular party.

"We condemn the group or groups who endangered civilians by placing these munitions in our school. This is yet another flagrant violation of the neutrality of our premises. We call on all the warring parties to respect the inviolability of U.N. property," Gunness said in a statement.

http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFL6N0Q45TO20140729

yasac · July 30, 2014

Some people speak about Hamas buy did you read or heard something about What Hamas says, or you just read and repeat about What Israël or some ziionist said about Hamas said

Jingthing · July 30, 2014

Some people speak about Hamas buy did you read or heard something about What Hamas says, or you just read and repeat about What Israël or some ziionist said about Hamas said

Their charter is published.

yasac · July 30, 2014

Some people speak about Hamas buy did you read or heard something about What Hamas says, or you just read and repeat about What Israël or some ziionist said about Hamas said
Their charter is published.

Ah Ok because i read Nothing in newspaper about what they Said, only Know they launch roquettes, people in Palestine and israél need to live in peace

Scott · July 31, 2014

Overly derogatory posts and those with inflammatory language have been deleted. Please stay on topic and keep the discussion civil.

Morch · July 31, 2014

Some people speak about Hamas buy did you read or heard something about What Hamas says, or you just read and repeat about What Israël or some ziionist said about Hamas said

Their charter is published.

Ah Ok because i read Nothing in newspaper about what they Said, only Know they launch roquettes, people in Palestine and israél need to live in peace

Welcome to TVF.

There are numerous quotes and transcripts of Hamas leadership across multiple media sources, most of them having nothing to do with either Israel or Zionism.

Scott · August 5, 2014

Off-topic posts have been deleted. This topic not a general discussion of opinions about Israel or Gaza. Stick to the topic please.

arjunadawn · August 5, 2014

Although still shocking, the death ratio between the bully and the bullied is getting better.

How are they better? A death to a death is better? Gruesome.

Perhaps we should put on our Geopolitical Hat and question why Hamas keeps... Pushing... Israel... More... And more! Hamas is sacrificing people in order to further an agenda, and it is working. Israel is responding in the only way it can, but the disparity, as pointed out, may still prove to serve Hamas' aims. Hamas desperately needs victim status. It's among the few mechanisms to sterilize itself. Moreover, Hamas needs both money and arms, and impetuous to provoke regional players to act. The Israeli Oppression card significantly aids Hamas in this regard.

Beneath the "I feel" sensational news clips there's another (multiple) dynamic rendering Hamas' desperate gamble dangerous: The Muslim Brotherhood, variously loathed or tolerated since it's Nazi marriage to Hitler, is on the run in considerable parts of the muslim world. Hamas, Turkey-MB. GCC states-Anti MB now. Egypt-virulently anti MB. Point: Hamas is having difficulties engaging the regional players it's desperately gambling on, at the expense of human beings. Iran, variously deeply involved in anti Israel terrorism is both reluctant to deepen commitment right now due to Syria, and 1/2 pissed of Hamas in Syria.

The end result is a much more complicated dynamic then the David & Goliath narrative terrorist apologists would suggest (Israel haters love to steal Israeli narrative (archetypical) themes whether it's the holocaust, diaspora, etc., and re write Israel as the bad guy in their own stories. "Jewish Holocaust of Palestinians" "Palestinian Diaspora," and related historical plagiarism to recast the Jews as their own enemies).

Even were I to remove the universally accepted label of Hamas as "terrorist" and consider them as legitimate State actors, my point remains: they are sacrificing women and children in a bid to further their position diplomatically, and hopefully regionally, by victimization. Edited August 5, 2014 by arjunadawn

ggold · August 5, 2014

Although still shocking, the death ratio between the bully and the bullied is getting better.

How are they better? A death to a death is better? Gruesome.
Perhaps we should put on our Geopolitical Hat and question why Hamas keeps... Pushing... Israel... More... And more! Hamas is sacrificing people in order to further an agenda, and it is working. Israel is responding in the only way it can, but the disparity, as pointed out, may still prove to serve Hamas' aims. Hamas desperately needs victim status. It's among the few mechanisms to sterilize itself. Moreover, Hamas needs both money and arms, and impetuous to provoke regional players to act. The Israeli Oppression card significantly aids Hamas in this regard.

Beneath the "I feel" sensational news clips there's another (multiple) dynamic rendering Hamas' desperate gamble dangerous: The Muslim Brotherhood, variously loathed or tolerated since it's Nazi marriage to Hitler, is on the run in considerable parts of the muslim world. Hamas, Turkey-MB. GCC states-Anti MB now. Egypt-virulently anti MB. Point: Hamas is having difficulties engaging the regional players it's desperately gambling on, at the expense of human beings. Iran, variously deeply involved in anti Israel terrorism is both reluctant to deepen commitment right now due to Syria, and 1/2 pissed of Hamas in Syria.

The end result is a much more complicated dynamic then the David & Goliath narrative terrorist apologists would suggest (Israel haters love to steal Israeli narrative (archetypical) themes whether it's the holocaust, diaspora, etc., and re write Israel as the bad guy in their own stories. "Jewish Holocaust of Palestinians" "Palestinian Diaspora," and related historical plagiarism to recast the Jews as their own enemies).

Even were I to remove the universally accepted label of Hamas as "terrorist" and consider them as legitimate State actors, my point remains: they are sacrificing women and children in a bid to further their position diplomatically, and hopefully regionally, by victimization.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183741

Palestinian Arab sources said Tuesday that Gaza residents attacked Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri Saturday evening, near the Shifa Hospital.

The residents blamed Hamas for the death of family members and for destruction of their homes. Armed Hamas terrorists from the Izzedine al-Kassam Brigades extricated Abu Zuri and arrested the angry residents.

Channel 10 said that Hamas executed 20 residents of Shejaiya who had dared demonstrate against Hamas.

Edited August 5, 2014 by ggold

Ulysses G. · August 5, 2014

Palestinian Arab sources said Tuesday that Gaza residents attacked Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri Saturday evening, near the Shifa Hospital.[/size]

The residents blamed Hamas for the death of family members and for destruction of their homes.

They got that right. Maybe their is hope for voting Hamas out.

dexterm · August 5, 2014

Palestinian Arab sources said Tuesday that Gaza residents attacked Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri Saturday evening, near the Shifa Hospital.[/size]

The residents blamed Hamas for the death of family members and for destruction of their homes.

They got that right. Maybe their is hope for voting Hamas out.

That would be Israel's worst nightmare....no bogeyman, and having to seriously talk peace and make concessions with PA

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