Gaza and Israel suffer deadliest day

Jingthing · July 21, 2014

In response to the comment that the Zionist or Jews never declared war on any state perhaps this link might help explain that nasty little spat spanning 1939-1945.

Hardly the innocents as claimed are they and still their war games continue

http://rense.com/general84/declare.htm

To Put some context to you're link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#cite_note-6

Hitler used the main thesis of "the Jewish peril", which posits a Jewish conspiracy to gain world leadership

Mein Kampf was written in 1925

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_boycott_of_German_goods

The Jewish boycott of German goods refers to one of the international Jewish responses to the policies of the Nazis.

It was hardly a war more a boycott.

To put even more context to this, the article posted comes from "The Barnes Review":

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/barnes-review

Founded by Willis Carto in 1994, The Barnes Review (TBR) is one of the most virulent anti-Semitic organizations around. Its flagship journal, The Barnes Review, and its website, Barnesreview.org, are dedicated to historical revisionism and Holocaust denial.
...
amed after Harry Elmer Barnes, a prominent 20th-century anti-Semite and Holocaust denier, The Barnes Review was created by Willis Carto, who also founded the extreme right-wing Liberty Lobby and the Institute for Historical Review (IHR), another Holocaust denial organization. Carto created The Barnes Review as a rival to IHR after he was forced out by the IHR's leadership in 1993 for financial mismanagement.

Claiming that its mission is to "tell the whole about history," TBR really practices an extremist form of revisionist history that includes defending the Nazi regime, denying the Holocaust, discounting the evils of slavery, and promoting white nationalism. The Barnes Review magazine has published articles entitled "Adolf Hitler — An Overlooked Candidate for the Nobel Prize?", "Treblinka Was No Death Camp", "Is There a Negro Race?", "‘Reconquista': The Mexican Plan to Take the Southwest", and "David Duke: An Awakening." The Barnes Review, like most of the radical-right institutions started by Willis Carto over the decades, also gives voice to any number of wild conspiracy theories. TBR's website puts it like this to its readers: "Many intelligent Americans still believe Pearl Harbor was a ‘surprise attack.' It was not. ... Many still believe Columbus (or Leif Ericsson) was first to America. He was not. ... Or what about proof that there was federal foreknowledge and complicity in the OKC bombing? There was. We can't even begin to discuss here the many questions that have never been answered about 9-11. The list of historical lies and distortions goes on and on and on. . ."

Edited July 21, 2014 by Jingthing

joepublic · July 21, 2014

They started the conflict

Stop Lying

Is that so? If I'm "lying" than prove me wrong. The 1929 Hebron Massacre of Jewish families might be a good starting point for you to begin your education, but there were plenty of unprovoked Arab atrocities before that.

Stop it! No one is buying your nonsense - the conflict is the land grab of Palestine by European Askenazi Zionists by terror. Nothing indigenous about these foreigners who displaced millions of native inhabitants. As long as the Zionists do not deal with their original sin of land theft, and the current sin of occupation, collective punishments, war crimes including the use of Arab children as human shields, there will be conflict.

Trouble · July 21, 2014

Maybe the American pro-Israeli stance is not because of the Jewish lobby ( maybe), but maybe it's because the US was founded on a similar scenario; Indigenous people, overrun and killed with superior forces in number and armament, for their land. You can hardly condemn Israel for doing the same thing.

Do you know anything about history at all? You have got it all backwards. The Jews were the Indigenous people in the area and they were vastly outnumbered by the Arabs who started the whole conflict. However, they overcame the enormous odds against them and defeated the Arab aggressors over and over again.

Please get the facts straight. From at least the 5th century on the Jews were a minority in Palestine. They still are if you consider the broader Palestine area and not just Israel. It was after WWI that the first influx of Jews occurred and then again after WWII. You are more likely defining indigenous based on biblical teaching and ignoring that there is little note taken of the other indigenous populations in the area 3000 years ago. The Jewish claim to the area is based on a kingdom that existed 3000 years ago. If the modern world based ownership of a land based on kingdoms that existed 3000 years ago no one could figure out who might be entitled to anything. Would the basis be 2000 years, 3000 years, 1000 years or what? The fact is that the western powers took an area belonging to another people and gave it to someone else. The fact is that Jewish terrorist groups were bombing British police stations, killing British officials, and conducting general terrorist operations, i.e. King David Hotel bombing to get the British out and declare a state. Jewish population in Palestine was only 78,000 in 1900. After the formation of the nation of Israel the Jewish population grew dramatically and in most case forced the displacement of the people that had lived on the land for a 1000 years. I am so tired of hearing about the right of Israel to exist. It has no right. The Zionists were terrorists who won the battle. So be it. It is now 2014 and it exists and will only exist until some future event dictates differently which is no different than what happened in Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia or any other place. For now I regard that Israel is there and its people deserve to live in peace and I abhor the violence taking place on both sides. Israel's biggest problem in my mind is that they continue to expand their territory by building on land that is not rightfully theirs. Sure there was a war in 1967 and they won the battle but they also annexed territory. What they should have done is make it farming land, let the owners farm there but not live there creating a buffer. Building and annexing territory is not justified. There would probably be peace now if not for the Israeli intransigence on this one subject. It's just been a land grab and everyone sees it for what it is except the damn US politicians. With that being said firing rockets into Israel is stupid and the response cannot be unexpected. It is unfortunate that Hamas, which is surely a terrorist organization (not just by defining it so by the USA or Israel) is causing this havoc. But then no different than the Zionist terrorists of 1947. Terrorists kill innocent people to cause havoc to get what they want because they haven't got the power or weapons to mount military operations and fight another army head on. This seems to be the way of the world now, unfortunately. Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and any number of other places are all worse off because terrorists do not respect the civilians but use them to their advantage to hide behind.

Bottom line is that the idea that the Jews are the "indigenous" people is bunk because before the Jews there was someone else. The area was controlled by the Babylonians, Assyrians, and others. Do you know how many different empires held control over Palestine in the last 4000 years? The Jewish kingdom was just a blip on the map at the time it existed and the area was quite honestly a melting pot. I suggest you read a little about the history of the area before you start talking about who is the indigenous population and who has "right" to the land. History is about who holds the power at a particular time. I would dare say that claiming that the Jews who came from Europe after WWII and who had lived in Europe for a 1000 years are not the rightful owners of the land taken from others. It's just they have the power at this point in history.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Trouble

Ulysses G. · July 21, 2014

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Maybe the American pro-Israeli stance is not because of the Jewish lobby ( maybe), but maybe it's because the US was founded on a similar scenario; Indigenous people, overrun and killed with superior forces in number and armament, for their land. You can hardly condemn Israel for doing the same thing.

Do you know anything about history at all? You have got it all backwards. The Jews were the Indigenous people in the area and they were vastly outnumbered by the Arabs who started the whole conflict. However, they overcame the enormous odds against them and defeated the Arab aggressors over and over again.

Please get the facts straight. From at least the 5th century on the Jews were a minority in Palestine.

"Indigenous" has nothing to do with a minority or a majority. It has to do with who originated in a particular place. The Jews were there something like 2,000 years before the so-called "Palestinians", who only started calling themselves that after the Jews won several wars that the Arabs had started and LOST. The Jews have has a continuous presence in the area known as Palestine for well over 3,000 years and there is all kinds of written and archaeological evidence to prove it.
By the way, the Babylonians, Assyrians, and others are ALL LONG GONE, so they don't really count.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

simple1 · July 21, 2014

In response to the comment that the Zionist or Jews never declared war on any state perhaps this link might help explain that nasty little spat spanning 1939-1945.

Hardly the innocents as claimed are they and still their war games continue

http://rense.com/general84/declare.htm

From time to time some of us make errors by using unresearched sources, this is an instance of such error of judgement based on lack of research motives and bias of the source.

Edited July 21, 2014 by simple1

Ulysses G. · July 21, 2014

They started the conflict

Stop Lying

Is that so? If I'm "lying" than prove me wrong. The 1929 Hebron Massacre of Jewish families might be a good starting point for you to begin your education, but there were plenty of unprovoked Arab atrocities before that.
Stop it! No one is buying your nonsense

In other words, you can not prove that I am "lying". because you can not dispute actual facts with name calling and hysterics. Funny how that works.

Jingthing · July 21, 2014

In response to the comment that the Zionist or Jews never declared war on any state perhaps this link might help explain that nasty little spat spanning 1939-1945.

Hardly the innocents as claimed are they and still their war games continue

http://rense.com/general84/declare.htm

From time to time some of us make errors by using unresearched sources, this is an instance of such error of judgement based on lack of research motives and bias of the source.

Interesting. Well, you are a lot more tolerant than me of people posting obviously virulent ant-semitic revisionist history material. There is a good reason holocaust denial is illegal in some countries.

Ulysses G. · July 21, 2014

In response to the comment that the Zionist or Jews never declared war on any state perhaps this link might help explain that nasty little spat spanning 1939-1945.

Hardly the innocents as claimed are they and still their war games continue

http://rense.com/general84/declare.htm

From time to time some of us make errors by using unresearched sources, this is an instance of such error of judgement based on lack of research motives and bias of the source.

You guys do realize that foolish article is on all the neo-Nazi, KKK and anti-Semitic websites along with the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion hoax (except they think that it was real)? Did you notice that the Daily Express article does not -- anywhere in the article -- mention any single Jew, either a leader of a group or an individual, by name. Not even one name?
Some organizations are mentioned, like the Board of Deputies of British Jews, who, the article claims, will meet two days later "to discuss the German situation." Ironically, the London Times of March 27 - three days later - reported that the Board of Deputies did not agree with a boycott and the U.K. had one of the largest Jewish populations of western Europe at the time.
A few Jews in the US did call for a boycott and who could blame them - not the one in the article - but most Jews ignored it and the economic effect on Germany was almost nil.This old "article" is nothing but anti-Semitic propaganda of the worst kind.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

dexterm · July 21, 2014

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Maybe the American pro-Israeli stance is not because of the Jewish lobby ( maybe), but maybe it's because the US was founded on a similar scenario; Indigenous people, overrun and killed with superior forces in number and armament, for their land. You can hardly condemn Israel for doing the same thing.

Do you know anything about history at all? You have got it all backwards. The Jews were the Indigenous people in the area and they were vastly outnumbered by the Arabs who started the whole conflict. However, they overcame the enormous odds against them and defeated the Arab aggressors over and over again.

Please get the facts straight. From at least the 5th century on the Jews were a minority in Palestine.

"Indigenous" has nothing to do with a minority or a majority. It has to do with who originated in a particular place. The Jews were there something like 2,000 years before the so-called "Palestinians", who only started calling themselves that after the Jews won several wars that the Arabs had started and LOST. The Jews have has a continuous presence in the area known as Palestine for well over 3,000 years and there is all kinds of written and archaeological evidence to prove it.
By the way, the Babylonians, Assyrians, and others are ALL LONG GONE, so they don't really count.

Jews are a religion not a race, so your argument about some sort of hereditary claim on Palestine is false. (indigenous people or not..unless you believe that God gave only to them a completely empty land flowing with milk and honey..beggars belief)

Edited July 21, 2014 by dexterm

Ulysses G. · July 21, 2014

Jews are a religion not a race

They are actually an ethnic group - many Jews are not religious - and, by the way, there is no race called "Palestinian" either, but whatever the Jews are, they have been there as a people continuously for a lot longer than the Arabs who started attacking them in the early 1900s.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

simple1 · July 21, 2014

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Maybe the American pro-Israeli stance is not because of the Jewish lobby ( maybe), but maybe it's because the US was founded on a similar scenario; Indigenous people, overrun and killed with superior forces in number and armament, for their land. You can hardly condemn Israel for doing the same thing.

Do you know anything about history at all? You have got it all backwards. The Jews were the Indigenous people in the area and they were vastly outnumbered by the Arabs who started the whole conflict. However, they overcame the enormous odds against them and defeated the Arab aggressors over and over again.

Please get the facts straight. From at least the 5th century on the Jews were a minority in Palestine.

"Indigenous" has nothing to do with a minority or a majority. It has to do with who originated in a particular place. The Jews were there something like 2,000 years before the so-called "Palestinians", who only started calling themselves that after the Jews won several wars that the Arabs had started and LOST. The Jews have has a continuous presence in the area known as Palestine for well over 3,000 years and there is all kinds of written and archaeological evidence to prove it.
By the way, the Babylonians, Assyrians, and others are ALL LONG GONE, so they don't really count.

Have you read the discussion on the common origins of Jews and Muslims, relevance to todays conflict etc Lengthy interesting discussion between a supporter of Israel and the other supporting Palestinian Arabs, an example:

"Roosevelt sent an emissary to Palestine to ask the Zionists what their aims were. The reply can be read in the published archives of our State Department: one, to take over all of Palestine and part of Transjordan; two, to transfer the existing population to Iraq; three, to become the dominant political power in the Levant"

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_burton_h_060905_the_common_origin_of.htm

Pralaad · July 21, 2014

You miss the point completely, but then, you don't want to get the point. Like all pro-Israelis you point blank refuse to see the immense inequity between the two sides, the huge difference in defence or attack capability, and the greatly disproportionate amount of damage/death inflicted in this tit-for-tat long-running conflict.

You also fail to acknowledge that Israel ties Palestinian hands behind their backs. The fights them. Cowards. Murderous cowards the lot of them.

Maybe the American pro-Israeli stance is not because of the Jewish lobby ( maybe), but maybe it's because the US was founded on a similar scenario; Indigenous people, overrun and killed with superior forces in number and armament, for their land. You can hardly condemn Israel for doing the same thing.

You are spot on for a change, i have missed the point.

So lets try again.

I asked you simple question twice now and twice you have responded with unrelated or at times incoherent response.

So, let me ask you again, feel free to ask if you do not understand any part of the question.

So my question to you again is

It is Hamas who is firing rockets and refusing ceasefire, so you would think it would be Hamas fighting IDF, right?

So could you explain why Hamas hardly suffers any casualties ? Is it because they are hiding like rats or the number of civilians is not a truthful number and a huge number of people In that list are actually Hamas fighters ?

dexterm · July 21, 2014

You miss the point completely, but then, you don't want to get the point. Like all pro-Israelis you point blank refuse to see the immense inequity between the two sides, the huge difference in defence or attack capability, and the greatly disproportionate amount of damage/death inflicted in this tit-for-tat long-running conflict.

You also fail to acknowledge that Israel ties Palestinian hands behind their backs. The fights them. Cowards. Murderous cowards the lot of them.

Maybe the American pro-Israeli stance is not because of the Jewish lobby ( maybe), but maybe it's because the US was founded on a similar scenario; Indigenous people, overrun and killed with superior forces in number and armament, for their land. You can hardly condemn Israel for doing the same thing.

You are spot on for a change, i have missed the point.

So lets try again.

I asked you simple question twice now and twice you have responded with unrelated or at times incoherent response.

So, let me ask you again, feel free to ask if you do not understand any part of the question.

So my question to you again is

It is Hamas who is firing rockets and refusing ceasefire, so you would think it would be Hamas fighting IDF, right?

So could you explain why Hamas hardly suffers any casualties ? Is it because they are hiding like rats or the number of civilians is not a truthful number and a huge number of people In that list are actually Hamas fighters ?

from the BBC and Israeli govt sources...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28397215

More than 500 Palestinians, mainly civilians, have been killed since the Israeli offensive began 13 days ago, Gaza's health ministry says.

Israel says it has killed at least 120 militants since Thursday night when it launched a ground offensive, the second phase of a military operation that began on 8 July.

The basic math indicates 24% Hamas/IJ fighters and 76% innocent civilians.

Scott · July 21, 2014

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

dexterm · July 21, 2014

That is what the dictionary says:

eth·nic [eth-nik]
adjective
1.
pertaining to or characteristic of a people, especially a group (ethnic group) sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like.

So Israel having been given sole ownership of the land by their imaginary supernatural friend God is now also claiming Palestine on the strength of the Oxford English Dictionary.

gimme a break!

Nonsense. They have sole ownership of Israel, because they accepted the UN deal and because they have won numerous wars that the Arabs started and started and LOST.

The only UN resolution Israel has ever accepted is 181 way back in 1947 recommending the partition of Palestine...the 100s of others since then they have ignored.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

... a selective memory is handy at times, eh?

btw it is illegal in the 21st century according to the UN Charter and the Geneva Convention to annex land occupied in war. It's also illegal to refuse repatriation of refugees who naturally flee during time of war.

Israel has fired the first shot in every single war from 1967 onwards apart from 1973 when Egypt fought to regain Sinai. caught the Israelis on the hop.

Edited July 21, 2014 by dexterm

NeverSure · July 21, 2014

The only UN resolution Israel has ever accepted is 181 way back in 1947 recommending the partition of Palestine...the 100s of others since then they have ignored.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

... a selective memory is handy at times, eh?

btw it is illegal in the 21st century according to the UN Charter and the Geneva Convention to annex land occupied in war. It's also illegal to refuse repatriation of refugees who naturally flee during time of war.

Israel has fired the first shot in every single war from 1967 onwards apart from 1973 when Egypt fought to regain Sinai. caught the Israelis on the hop.

How sweet. Such niceties. "It is illegal."

Who the hell does the UN think it is, telling a sovereign nation what it can and can't do? I have news for you. The UN has no power.

You are disingenuous in saying that Israel fired the first shot... In 1967 several countries were gathering to attack Israel. Israel learned of it and hit with pre-emptive strikes and blew their enemies away in just 6 days. So, yeah, Israel fired the first shot(s) to save its country from what was going to happen to it.

I continue to be amazed that some people think countries should cede their sovereignty to wimpy PC do-nothings such as the UN. Sign and follow enough UN rules and you won't even have a country anymore - just as is happening in Europe.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Scott

Ulysses G. · July 21, 2014

The only UN resolution Israel has ever accepted is 181 way back in 1947 recommending the partition of Palestine..

That is the only one that they need. They have a thriving country. They have one of the best armies in the world and they have the US as their best friend. Unfortunately, much of the modern UN are hypocrites that unfairly badger Israel and should be ignored as much as possible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhWgZu6tcZU
.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

uptheos · July 21, 2014

This is crazy.

Innocent people are dying and we have numerous posts across several threads discussing history an ancient holy books.

All Hamas has to do is stop firing rockets and Israel will stop trying to find them. That is the solution and it should happen right now.

They are words a 7 year old would understand, but unfortunately it needs to be put into words that a 3 year old can understand, as 3 appears to be the approximate level of understanding for Hamas.

Pralaad · July 21, 2014

You miss the point completely, but then, you don't want to get the point. Like all pro-Israelis you point blank refuse to see the immense inequity between the two sides, the huge difference in defence or attack capability, and the greatly disproportionate amount of damage/death inflicted in this tit-for-tat long-running conflict.

You also fail to acknowledge that Israel ties Palestinian hands behind their backs. The fights them. Cowards. Murderous cowards the lot of them.

Maybe the American pro-Israeli stance is not because of the Jewish lobby ( maybe), but maybe it's because the US was founded on a similar scenario; Indigenous people, overrun and killed with superior forces in number and armament, for their land. You can hardly condemn Israel for doing the same thing.

You are spot on for a change, i have missed the point.

So lets try again.

I asked you simple question twice now and twice you have responded with unrelated or at times incoherent response.

So, let me ask you again, feel free to ask if you do not understand any part of the question.

So my question to you again is

It is Hamas who is firing rockets and refusing ceasefire, so you would think it would be Hamas fighting IDF, right?

So could you explain why Hamas hardly suffers any casualties ? Is it because they are hiding like rats or the number of civilians is not a truthful number and a huge number of people In that list are actually Hamas fighters ?

from the BBC and Israeli govt sources...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28397215

More than 500 Palestinians, mainly civilians, have been killed since the Israeli offensive began 13 days ago, Gaza's health ministry says.

Israel says it has killed at least 120 militants since Thursday night when it launched a ground offensive, the second phase of a military operation that began on 8 July.

The basic math indicates 24% Hamas/IJ fighters and 76% innocent civilians.

Glad you came to his rescue.

So, then Gaza health ministry is Hamas, right? So they would not lie?

Is there a way the distinguish between civilians and hamas militants?

And lastly, i will ask you, since you decided to jump in to help.

Hamas are the ones fighting with IDF, why are they not in the front lines?

In case you struggle with a question, i will explain.

IDF are fighting Hamas to protects its civilians. IDF are in the front lines and are getting killed.

Hamas is fighting IDF to(supposedly) protect its civilians. Hamas are not in the front line and are not getting killed.

Ulysses G. · July 21, 2014

You are disingenuous in saying that Israel fired the first shot... In 1967 several countries were gathering to attack Israel. Israel learned of it and hit with pre-emptive strikes and blew their enemies away in just 6 days. So, yeah, Israel fired the first shot(s) to save its country from what was going to happen to it.

Of course he is disingenuous. Five Arab armies gathered on Israel's borders in 1967 and Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping. Nasser ordered the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956, to withdraw. He challenged Israel to fight almost daily, "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight." The Arabs asked for a fight and they got it! Edited July 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

dexterm · July 21, 2014

The only UN resolution Israel has ever accepted is 181 way back in 1947 recommending the partition of Palestine...the 100s of others since then they have ignored.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

... a selective memory is handy at times, eh?

btw it is illegal in the 21st century according to the UN Charter and the Geneva Convention to annex land occupied in war. It's also illegal to refuse repatriation of refugees who naturally flee during time of war.

Israel has fired the first shot in every single war from 1967 onwards apart from 1973 when Egypt fought to regain Sinai. caught the Israelis on the hop.

How sweet. Such niceties. "It is illegal."

Who the hell does the UN think it is, telling a sovereign nation what it can and can't do? I have news for you. The UN has no power.

You are disingenuous in saying that Israel fired the first shot... In 1967 several countries were gathering to attack Israel. Israel learned of it and hit with pre-emptive strikes and blew their enemies away in just 6 days. So, yeah, Israel fired the first shot(s) to save its country from what was going to happen to it.

I continue to be amazed that some people think countries should cede their sovereignty to wimpy PC do-nothings such as the UN. Sign and follow enough UN rules and you won't even have a country anymore - just as is happening in Europe.

So there we have it, you admit Israel doesn't give a hoot about the only legal global body that exists...... the UN. ..except of course when you need to quote the 1947 partition plan.

You admit then that Israel It is a truly a rogue, pariah state.

The UN would have more teeth if the US had more control over its spoilt brat instead of being the sole country to veto any vote that condemns israeli behavior

It's time Israel came in from the cold and accepted 21st century standards of civilization.

Edited July 21, 2014 by dexterm

up-country_sinclair · July 21, 2014

They have a thriving country.
.

If it is a thriving country, why does it need 3.5 billion dollars from US taxpayers every year?

And yes, that's billion with a "b".

dexterm · July 21, 2014

You are disingenuous in saying that Israel fired the first shot... In 1967 several countries were gathering to attack Israel. Israel learned of it and hit with pre-emptive strikes and blew their enemies away in just 6 days. So, yeah, Israel fired the first shot(s) to save its country from what was going to happen to it.

Of course he is disingenuous. Five Arab armies gathered on Israel's borders in 1967 and Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping. Nasser ordered the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956, to withdraw. He challenged Israel to fight almost daily, "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight." The Arabs asked for a fight and they got it!

You admit then that israel fired the first shot bombing Egyptian airports.

Israel always fires the first shot as it has done so again in Gaza now, then hunts around for a pretext to justify itself.

Edited July 21, 2014 by dexterm

ggold · July 21, 2014

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Do you know anything about history at all? You have got it all backwards. The Jews were the Indigenous people in the area and they were vastly outnumbered by the Arabs who started the whole conflict. However, they overcame the enormous odds against them and defeated the Arab aggressors over and over again.

Please get the facts straight. From at least the 5th century on the Jews were a minority in Palestine.

"Indigenous" has nothing to do with a minority or a majority. It has to do with who originated in a particular place. The Jews were there something like 2,000 years before the so-called "Palestinians", who only started calling themselves that after the Jews won several wars that the Arabs had started and LOST. The Jews have has a continuous presence in the area known as Palestine for well over 3,000 years and there is all kinds of written and archaeological evidence to prove it.
By the way, the Babylonians, Assyrians, and others are ALL LONG GONE, so they don't really count.

Jews are a religion not a race, so your argument about some sort of hereditary claim on Palestine is false. (indigenous people or not..unless you believe that God gave only to them a completely empty land flowing with milk and honey..beggars belief)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism

Judaism claims a historical continuity spanning more than 3,000 years. Judaism has its roots as a structured religion in the Middle East during the Bronze Age

Jews are an ethnoreligious group^[21] and include those born Jewish and converts to Judaism.

dexterm · July 21, 2014

You miss the point completely, but then, you don't want to get the point. Like all pro-Israelis you point blank refuse to see the immense inequity between the two sides, the huge difference in defence or attack capability, and the greatly disproportionate amount of damage/death inflicted in this tit-for-tat long-running conflict.

You also fail to acknowledge that Israel ties Palestinian hands behind their backs. The fights them. Cowards. Murderous cowards the lot of them.

Maybe the American pro-Israeli stance is not because of the Jewish lobby ( maybe), but maybe it's because the US was founded on a similar scenario; Indigenous people, overrun and killed with superior forces in number and armament, for their land. You can hardly condemn Israel for doing the same thing.

You are spot on for a change, i have missed the point.

So lets try again.

I asked you simple question twice now and twice you have responded with unrelated or at times incoherent response.

So, let me ask you again, feel free to ask if you do not understand any part of the question.

So my question to you again is

It is Hamas who is firing rockets and refusing ceasefire, so you would think it would be Hamas fighting IDF, right?

So could you explain why Hamas hardly suffers any casualties ? Is it because they are hiding like rats or the number of civilians is not a truthful number and a huge number of people In that list are actually Hamas fighters ?

from the BBC and Israeli govt sources...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28397215

More than 500 Palestinians, mainly civilians, have been killed since the Israeli offensive began 13 days ago, Gaza's health ministry says.

Israel says it has killed at least 120 militants since Thursday night when it launched a ground offensive, the second phase of a military operation that began on 8 July.

The basic math indicates 24% Hamas/IJ fighters and 76% innocent civilians.

Glad you came to his rescue.

So, then Gaza health ministry is Hamas, right? So they would not lie?

Is there a way the distinguish between civilians and hamas militants?

And lastly, i will ask you, since you decided to jump in to help.

Hamas are the ones fighting with IDF, why are they not in the front lines?

In case you struggle with a question, i will explain.

IDF are fighting Hamas to protects its civilians. IDF are in the front lines and are getting killed.

Hamas is fighting IDF to(supposedly) protect its civilians. Hamas are not in the front line and are not getting killed.

>>Is there a way to distinguish between civilians and hamas militants?

...the Israeli government seems to be able to when they quote 120 militants killed. are they fifth columnist spies too along with respected BBC journalists?

Scott · July 21, 2014

Off-topic posts and replies deleted. I think we have had enough discussion of whether Jews are a race/religion/ethnic group etc..

ggold · July 21, 2014

You are disingenuous in saying that Israel fired the first shot... In 1967 several countries were gathering to attack Israel. Israel learned of it and hit with pre-emptive strikes and blew their enemies away in just 6 days. So, yeah, Israel fired the first shot(s) to save its country from what was going to happen to it.

Of course he is disingenuous. Five Arab armies gathered on Israel's borders in 1967 and Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping. Nasser ordered the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956, to withdraw. He challenged Israel to fight almost daily, "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight." The Arabs asked for a fight and they got it!

You admit then that israel fired the first shot bombing Egyptian airports.

Israel always fires the first shot as it has done so again in Gaza now, then hunts around for a pretext to justify itself.

And it had nothing to do with the fact Hamas were firing rockets at Israel. Israel fired the first shot? incredible.

I would have to say you are trolling this topic. I haven't read one comment of yours that has any credibility to it.

dexterm · July 21, 2014

You are disingenuous in saying that Israel fired the first shot... In 1967 several countries were gathering to attack Israel. Israel learned of it and hit with pre-emptive strikes and blew their enemies away in just 6 days. So, yeah, Israel fired the first shot(s) to save its country from what was going to happen to it.

Of course he is disingenuous. Five Arab armies gathered on Israel's borders in 1967 and Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping. Nasser ordered the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956, to withdraw. He challenged Israel to fight almost daily, "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight." The Arabs asked for a fight and they got it!

You admit then that israel fired the first shot bombing Egyptian airports.

Israel always fires the first shot as it has done so again in Gaza now, then hunts around for a pretext to justify itself.

And it had nothing to do with the fact Hamas were firing rockets at Israel. Israel fired the first shot? incredible.

I would have to say you are trolling this topic. I haven't read one comment of yours that has any credibility to it.

- 15 May the 2 consecutive killings of Palestinian teenagers in cold blood captured on CCTV cameras

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitunia_killings

- 11 June: Israeli air strike kills two Palestinians, including one child.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/timeline-israel-gaza-conflict-1595503520#sthash.vLkZ1NwV.dpuf

...the day before the 3 Israeli teenagers were kidnapped which supposedly started this whole furore.

>>I haven't read one comment of yours that has any credibility to it.

...your problem if you fail to research my posts.

Pralaad · July 21, 2014

...the Israeli government seems to be able to when they quote 120 militants killed. are they fifth columnist spies too along with respected BBC journalists?

I asked you a simple question , i even went further to elaborate to make sure you understood

Is it too hard to answer? no google searches to post someone else's opinion?

dexterm · July 21, 2014

...the Israeli government seems to be able to when they quote 120 militants killed. are they fifth columnist spies too along with respected BBC journalists?

I asked you a simple question , i even went further to elaborate to make sure you understood

Is it too hard to answer? no google searches to post someone else's opinion?

just read the BBC item yourself and argue with the BBC reporter about his sources and credibility. neither you nor I were there, but somehow you appear to have more detailed information.

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