Lite Beer Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Judge 'falls asleep' during child rape case MANCHESTER: -- A judge is being investigated after he was accused of falling asleep during a child rape trial.A complaint was made against Recorder Philip Cattan on the first day of a trial at Manchester Crown Court.Barristers complained that the judge had fallen asleep as the first alleged victim was cross-examined. The trial was abandoned and must now start again.The Judicial Conduct Investigations Office said Mr Cattan could not comment while the matter was investigated.A spokesman said the office was aware of the allegation and an investigation was under way. Read More: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-28498362 -- BBC 2014-07-26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVGerry Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 During a child rape trial? Really?! I hope they fire him! Though that seems unlikely unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupatria Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 ...and they still call it: "the sleep of the just" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Watcher Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I wonder what the response here would have been - if this was in Thailand... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MJP Posted July 26, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2014 He could be ill, have diabetes. Common these days. I feel asleep in a project meeting the other day. Mind you the bloke droning on could have put a glass eye to sleep. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchurch259 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I guess we might wait and see what is up. There are physical reasons for dosing and the older the Judge is the more those reasons may occur. I hope someone will provide a follow-up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdenner Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 So how many here can honestly say they have NEVER fallen asleep on the job. Could be any number of genuine causes for it:- Overworked, most likely in this modern age with the crime rate growing. If medically related this guy may only be guilty of not dismissing himself from duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I have seen/heard this before. They are human. How many times have we all had situations where we could not keep our eyes open. Still not right, but it happens. Really not as big of a deal as one might think during a jury trial. Hack, I have practiced before a judge who was drunk all the time and everyone knew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suradit69 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) I wonder what the response here would have been - if this was in Thailand... This sort of thing would never happen in Farang Land where everything is so overwhelmingly wonderful ... oh wait. I have seen/heard this before. They are human. How many times have we all had situations where we could not keep our eyes open. Still not right, but it happens. Really not as big of a deal as one might think during a jury trial. Hack, I have practiced before a judge who was drunk all the time and everyone knew it. Oh well, then it's OK. Actually most people who repeatedly come to work drunk or regularly fall asleep when they're on duty get fired. If the state of consciousness of a judge is so irrelevant to proceedings, why bother? Although I can understand why some lawyers prefer to try their cases before an unconscious judge. ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz "Off with his head." ZZZzzzzz burp. Edited July 26, 2014 by Suradit69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I wonder what the response here would have been - if this was in Thailand... How many judges in the UK are still working away at over the retirement age? Probably most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 So how many here can honestly say they have NEVER fallen asleep on the job. Could be any number of genuine causes for it:- Overworked, most likely in this modern age with the crime rate growing. If medically related this guy may only be guilty of not dismissing himself from duty. A judge overworked????? They are like MPs, no retirement age, probably fiddling their expenses and have another job on the side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeaBiGgiEs Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Certainly all the reasons as stated above and well lets not kid ourselves but "child rape" wouldn't keep my attention or interest for too long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benmart Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I wonder what the response here would have been - if this was in Thailand...How many judges in the UK are still working away at over the retirement age? Probably most of them.Most? An overused word in my opinion. I've not met them all, so I can't comment with such certainty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I wonder what the response here would have been - if this was in Thailand... This sort of thing would never happen in Farang Land where everything is so overwhelmingly wonderful ... oh wait. I have seen/heard this before. They are human. How many times have we all had situations where we could not keep our eyes open. Still not right, but it happens. Really not as big of a deal as one might think during a jury trial. Hack, I have practiced before a judge who was drunk all the time and everyone knew it. Oh well, then it's OK. Actually most people who repeatedly come to work drunk or regularly fall asleep when they're on duty get fired. If the state of consciousness of a judge is so irrelevant to proceedings, why bother? Although I can understand why some lawyers prefer to try their cases before an unconscious judge. ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz "Off with his head." ZZZzzzzz burp. Lawdy, where do you guys get your analytical thinking abilities. You are reading meaning into something I said that was not intended. I never said it was okay. I don't condone it. I am just conveying what I have seen. The drunk judge was removed from the bench and was one of about 50 trial judges in the city, the vast majority of which were very good trial judges. Trial judges, however, have very little to do or involvement in a jury trial. Still looks very bad to jury and the parties and they should absolutely be paying attention. Judges are human and imperfect also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanSaiExPat Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 During a child rape trial? Really?! I hope they fire him! Though that seems unlikely unfortunately. Is it really any more egregious to fall asleep at a "child rape case" than an "adult rape case" or during a "capital murder case"? I think the headline or turn of phrase "child rape case" was used to intentionally sensationalize and in your case it appears to have worked. The article tells us nothing about the case at hand. Age of child? (In some Countries, England, for example, the Sexual Offences Act 2003, raised the age of a child to 18. Was it an 18 year old girl who cried foul after her boyfriend took advantage of her after a night of drinking? And indeed who was the perpetrator? The 18 year old boyfriend or girlfriend? We know nothing except that this jurist is alleged to have nodded off during arguments at trial. When we hear "child rape case" we all, (myself included) tend to jump to conclusions that aren't necessarily warranted. The pathetic state of what passes for journalism today requires that we, as consumers of this "swill" read it with the assumption that we are first and foremost being manipulated and therefore must be very wary and critical of what we're reading. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I wonder what the response here would have been - if this was in Thailand...How many judges in the UK are still working away at over the retirement age? Probably most of them.Most? An overused word in my opinion. I've not met them all, so I can't comment with such certainty. It's really just an opinion, everytime to see a judge either on television or in real life, they seem to be old dodderers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassde Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 A Recorder in the UK, whilst he or she can sit in judgement over cases, is usually a lawyer of many years standing, but not a Judge of the Crown Court or High Court - in effect they sit part-time. Philip Cattan is 65 years old It is sad for the family of the victim and the victim herself that the Recorder allegedly fell asleep on the first day of the trial, which then had to be abandoned. It will cost the taxpayer thousands of£ to re-start the trial with a new Judge. The disciplinary enquiry will be thorough and I would think that the Recorder will not sit on further cases, but revert back to being a barrister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinostar Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 this should go viral! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggt Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Rumor has it...he had just returned from three sleepless night of rest and relaxation in Thailand...before taking the bench... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I wonder what the response here would have been - if this was in Thailand... To the headline, 'Judge wakes up.............? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeO Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 During a child rape trial? Really?! I hope they fire him! Though that seems unlikely unfortunately. On the contrary, the UK authorities deal quite severely with such complaints, and it is likely that, at the very least, he will receive a lengthy suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassde Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 At 65 years old he should retire! Sent from my K012 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me313 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 The response would probably be, the judge sleeping at home and at work, as there would be no charges brought against the rapist(s) in the first place and no trial. I wonder what the response here would have been - if this was in Thailand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 It should not be considered wimpish to want to take a siesta in the afternoon - particularly for oldsters. I've been taking siestas most days for the past 25 years (I'm 62). I have renewed vigor that keeps me going past midnight. Where is it written that men and women should be fully active and alert from 6 am to 10 pm every 24 hour cycle? Lions, dogs, and many other species rest during the day. Why no us? The judge should have pounded his gavel (no pun intended) and announced a recess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassde Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 The victim was giving evidence so the Recorder should have been on top of his game. If in the afternoon how much wine did he have for lunch? If in the morning, no excuse whatsoever. Sent from my K012 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeThePoster Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Of course, this would never happen here. The pointing pics submitted as evidence are so exciting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchansmorn Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 It happens, what is the big deal, suspend him for a few days without pay, that should keep him awake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Watcher Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 or the Monty Python team... "That judge is a sleep!" - "No ees not, eees just restin is eyes...." Of course, this would never happen here. The pointing pics submitted as evidence are so exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvr181 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I hope they fire him! Though that seems unlikely unfortunately. Same same as Thailand when it comes to public servants not doing their job? Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submaniac Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Just throwing something out for a "grand scheme of things perspective"....while falling asleep during child rape trial is bad, there was another Orange County USA judge, Ronald Kline, who was sentenced to 27 months in federal prison for possessing child pornography on his computer...both at his home AND IN HIS JUDICIAL CHAMBERS. http://www.justice.gov/usao/cac/Pressroom/pr2007/024.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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