Would You Send Your Kids To An EP?

[kleelof]

.... even using American accent.

And what's wrong with an American accent?

[kingstonkid]

I teach kids that go to both EP and non EP at the same school. To be honest i do not see a lot of difference in the kids.\

If it was me i would send them to a good Thai program that has a good program.

i would not at all be interested in EP for my kids.

That is what i am here for. I can teach English as good as any other one hour a day wonder or back packer in this country.

It is the same with Math and social studies.

Even in Canada they have trouble teaching math to kids i did it on my own and now my daughter is maintaining the tradition with my grandchildren.

Most teachers in schools do not have the ability to truly teach as they are given a program that soemone at the school wants them to learn and they have to teach.

[kleelof]

I think this a most interesting thread. It is no use putting it in the Primary/Secondary Schools forum.

What we are talking about is the best way for our children to be at least bilingual and in some cases, if their

mother tongue is neither Thai nor English, trilingual.I think most EP programmes are a waste of time and, particularly, money. If you are lucky you will get a native speaker who can actually teach; either on the basis that he/she is

trained or you are just lucky that they have got some grip on what is needed.

We had a memorable confrontation with a so-called native speaker who asked the kids to spell Hossup. Children: Whatis it ? Hossup. Ah Hot Soup.

The presence of Thai teachers in the

room is a complete waste of space as their English competence will almost certainly be dreadful.

My children have lived in Thailand all their life; but!! they have been taken to the UK for considerable periods of

time..like from 4 to 5, 7 to 8 and 9 to 10..so they are perfectly fluent in English. They speak Thai and various

dialects of it! fluently too. But they have some difficulty with writing and reading Thai. Of course, as they point out, the Thai students in their class cannot read and write Thai properly either.

We are now embarking, indeed have embarked, on M1-6....Further problems. I have no idea what goes on in the

programmes that train Thai teachers; but whatever it is it has nothing to do with equipping a person to teach.

We don't want the children to go to international schools, or UK exports, in Thailand with a bunch of rich kids

from wherever. And anyway I suspect that both here and in Malaysia and Singapore they are only in it for the money. We want them to be citoyennes du monde who move easily between cultures and languages, but are also grounded in the towns where we live in Thailand and Europe.

We tried to get private tutors for Thai, Computer Programming, and other things they wanted to learn. The Thai! teacher of Japanese gave up because the lessons conflicted with her Wat Schedule. My wife said:look everybody here is too lazy. The teachers get paid whatever they do, so they do not want to do any 'evening' work.

The whole thing is a nightmare

Actually we don't think the schools have much to offer except the potential of friends!

The matayom system here is quite dreadful.

1. Since kids are just passed though prathom grades despite not being able to read, write or do math, when they get to matayom, these issues come to light and many M1 students are not even ready for the grade.

2. Matayom schools are a breeding ground for violence. Ever couple of weeks there is another story about fights or rapes in matayom schools.

3. The teachers are woefully under-qualified. Many have been teaching for 20+ years with no additional training other than uni.

4. The class sizes are upwards of 20 students beyond what is reasonable for a teacher to teach.

5. The schools do little, if anything, to let parents know the progress of the students. Often times, the parents don't know there are any problems until AFTER the first term has ended. Schools don't notify parents if students miss classes.

6. Many many teachers tutor after school. So they only teach the bare minimum then tell students if they want to pass the tests, they need to study privately with the teacher.

7. And, the biggest problem, in my opinion, students don't have to study to pass the classes. At the end of the term, they can take the term test. If they fail, the teachers have to 'teach' what needs to be known to pass the test. If they fail again, the teacher will 'teach' them again. If they fail again, they can try and take the test again the next term or school year. I know from experience many students are aware of this and use it to justify not attending classes and doing the school work.

8. Any teachers or parents who want to improve things are helpless because the directors of the schools are often trying to figure out more ways to fatten their pockets.

Don't get me wrong. Not all schools are in this poor of shape. But it does seem to be the case in most matayom schools.

[culicine]

As someone mentioned 'checkout the EP program'. Do that carefully. I know a couple of schools that have started EP programs and they have no idea what they are doing. The staff is reasonably good and competent, but they keep changing the job description and it has a negative impact on the staff, and that affects learning. They do know how to collect the additional money, however.

I have a feeling the schools will get their act together, but it is going to take some time. The main advantage right now is that the students do get a lot of English and it has a good student to staff ratio.

The Thai admin, however, think that they can wave a magic wand and make a new program happen. It really doesn't happen quite that way.

Not all EP's have high turnover. Right now in my office there are 5 teachers. We have over 50 years teaching experience, mostly accrued in our current school. I'd suggest there are good and not-so-good EP's around. Most of the better schools will be in BK or surrounds.

[Cake Monster]

From a personal view point, I would send a child to an English Program School over and above an International School.

Having a child that was educated in the UK for 3 years as a Kinder Garden / Primary Student before returning here, our child excelled in the UK from having no knowledge at all of English upon entering the toddlers class, to topping out class in primary 1 before coming back here.

After coming back here, we placed our child in an International School, thinking that we were giving our child the best opportunity that we could afford.

The International School had so many issues with the childrens education due to trying to teach kids from virtually every nation in the world, that overall core subject standards were very poor.

It is impossible to have children from Russia, Korea , Holland , America , Etc in the same class and give them all a consistant education in English to a high standard.

Children are capable of so much in the way of learning, but for a child ( EG - from Russia ) to enter a School in Thailand, be surrounded by strange people from other countries , have no children to talk to in their native tongue, and be taught Thai, and English as 2 foriegn languages by a Teacher from who knows where, that is way above their capabilities.

It is absolutely Impossible for any child to be happy or to learn in such an environment.

Needless to say, after our childs " performance "- ( for want of a better expression ) declined dramatically over 1 1/2 years we moved her to an English Program School that concentrates her education into Thai and English with a little Chinese in the mix also.

Again her performance level has increased and stayed focused for the last 3 years.

The one thing that really sadly is lacking in all the Thai Schools, whether they are English Program or International, is the basic education in English to enable the children to at least talk reasonably well.

I am of course refering to " Phonics ".

[somchaiq]

My son is 10 years old and in primary 4 now. since Kindergarten 1 he is at Chindamanee School English Program and I must say that I am quite happy with his English knowledge. The school is owned by an Turkish company.

Since I know some Thai English Teachers, I would never let my son move to an government owned Thai school.

[billd766]

My son will be 10 this week and he is in a government school in the EP class and has been for 3 years as has his 9 year old friend from next door.

He seems to be getting fairly well in a class of about 25 and at the end of last year his English sublects were better than the Thai ones. He was #8 in the class.

He does seem to enjoy it and AFAIK nobody is punished by the teachers in his class, ie caned etc.

This is in Anuban Khampaeng Phet.

The only drawback we have is that we live 65 km from KPP and he catches the minibus about 06.10 and gets home around 17.30. They go on language camps sometimes during the week or at weekends and my wife always delivers him to school and collects him on the return.

I only speak English to him and his friend and he will translate it to other children for me. My wife only speaksThai to him.

So far it is working for us but in the next couple of years we have to find another school for him when hegoesup to senior school in 3 years time..

[kingstonkid]

The one thing that really sadly is lacking in all the Thai Schools, whether they are English Program or International, is the basic education in English to enable the children to at least talk reasonably well.

I am of course refering to " Phonics ".

AMEN

All the kids that I teach have no ability with phonetics. Personally think that a great many Thai schools knowing that the kids pass no matter what are more interested in putting together a package that they can show the government that looks really good and do not care if the kids are able to handle it at that level.

The Parents are told that this is what they teach and that the kids have no trouble passing.

Parents are now relying on the outside educators to actually teach their kids the phonics to handle reading and writing.

[khunPer]

My daughter (half Thai, but Thai national) is in an English-Programme primary Thai school. We are very satisfied, good native English teachers, plus of course Thai teachers. However I think there is huge difference in the English Programme schools, and also the fees paid, but quite a bit cheaper than an International school and the difference may not be that big, if any, if it’s a good English-Programme Thai school.

[nellyp]

I am a teacher in a mini EP, and my son goes to my school. He is 8 years old and is educated in the Thai system, not the EP. His English is fluent so he has no need for English exposure. I would personally put any child I had in the "ordinary" classes, and pay for English tuition out of school. I have worked in 3 similar programmes that have all been the same, that is, run as a business.

The students I have encountered learn that they will get great grades no matter what, and this makes them lazy in class. I submit grades that reflect the tests, yet I have students who have scored 10% receiving a grade 4. A good EP will have students that fail, so ask about pass rates One home room teacher where I am at the moment demanded at least 80% for all the students in her class, if you see something like this run for the hills.

If you are going to put a child in an EP check on class sizes, and look for a max of 30 students. Make an impromptu visit and sit in on a class run by a native speaker. Check out the homeroom teacher and the co-teacher and make sure they can communicate with you in English. The facilities to me are not the most important thing (or my son would be in an EP), but multimedia lessons are more interesting and set context much easier for students, so look for them and ask how they are used.

It is my opinion that the basic EP is a way to make money for a school, and for parents to appear hi-so. There is no doubt that your kids will be hobnobbing with other "rich" kids and is thus great for networking. However, I think to suggest that the standard of teaching in an EP is different to that in a general programme is wrong. It depends who is teaching and the motivations that the students have.

By the way, The Mini EP I work for is no where near the worst, and is actually the best, I have worked in (as is the school).

If you are serious about education send your kids to a school that follows a foreign curriculum, or do a lot of home tutoring (as me and my wife do). Come the time for Matayom school, my boy will either be in a private school or I will be moving back home.

[kleelof]

do a lot of home tutoring (as me and my wife do).

This is the key no matter where your kids are in any school and any program IN THE WORLD.

My wife is fond of saying your kids success is 70% your responsibility and 30% the schools. Personally, I break that 70% down into 50% parents and 20% student. But I think you get the point.

[nellyp]

do a lot of home tutoring (as me and my wife do).

This is the key no matter where your kids are in any school and any program IN THE WORLD.

My wife is fond of saying your kids success is 70% your responsibility and 30% the schools. Personally, I break that 70% down into 50% parents and 20% student. But I think you get the point.

The key to greater success it may be, but it is not vital in a school system that functions well. It is vital for a parent to encourage and motivate their children to learn, but but educational institutions should be able to teach on their own two feet (not literally). The greatest thing a parent can do for a child is not to give them everything they want, but to teach them how to get it for themselves. That's paraphrasing, but I dare say you get my drift

[belg]

if you have to pay some international school, about a million baht a year (or even half) for 15 years, you better put them in bilingual school and give them 15 / 7.5 million baht cash when they are 18

much better investment

[SlyAnimal]

You seem to be suggesting that the rich kids are more serious about education.

Well at university level I can tell you that's absolutely not true, especially at bachelor level.

At a university level things are likely different to at high school level. As the most terrible students have already been weeded out.

Also as I said, the top streamed classes are as good or better than the English Programs, since the students there are generally focused on learning already. The main priority as I see it, would be to ensure that my kids avoided associating with the losers and no hopers.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[nottocus]

No way…most of the teachers aren't properly qualified or experienced.

Edited July 28, 2014 by nottocus

[Newguy70]

I would never even consider sending my kids to a Thai English program.

I'm guessing you are well off or you don't live in Thailand.

[scorecard]

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As someone mentioned 'checkout the EP program'. Do that carefully. I know a couple of schools that have started EP programs and they have no idea what they are doing. The staff is reasonably good and competent, but they keep changing the job description and it has a negative impact on the staff, and that affects learning. They do know how to collect the additional money, however.

I have a feeling the schools will get their act together, but it is going to take some time. The main advantage right now is that the students do get a lot of English and it has a good student to staff ratio.

The Thai admin, however, think that they can wave a magic wand and make a new program happen. It really doesn't happen quite that way.

Not all EP's have high turnover. Right now in my office there are 5 teachers. We have over 50 years teaching experience, mostly accrued in our current school. I'd suggest there are good and not-so-good EP's around. Most of the better schools will be in BK or surrounds.

There's also some good ones in Chiang Mai.

[isawasnake]

I would never even consider sending my kids to a Thai English program.

I'm guessing you are well off or you don't live in Thailand.

Ha. I taught in Thailand at one of the better EP's I'd say. It was a joke. I would not send my kid anywhere near the place unless I wanted their education to be about how to disrespect teachers and get away with it etc etc etc.

[brucetefl]

DO NOT PUT YOUR KIDS IN ENGLISH PROGRAM!

Why should they study with a bunch of kids who speak very little English? They speak English. I want them to learn what they're there to study.

I posted a much longer thread on educating kids here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/747051-how-to-educate-your-kids-in-thailand/

[Neeranam]

I would never even consider sending my kids to a Thai English program.

I'm guessing you are well off or you don't live in Thailand.

Ha. I taught in Thailand at one of the better EP's I'd say. It was a joke. I would not send my kid anywhere near the place unless I wanted their education to be about how to disrespect teachers and get away with it etc etc etc.

I taught in a school on Convent Road, which was one of the most prestigious in Thailand - Thaksin's daughter was there! The first year they started their English program with P1-3.

There were were 2 chronic alcoholics there who always taking time off sick, one Cockney guy who left school at 15 who asked me once how to spell 'sugar', who subsequently went on to smuggle large quantities of drugs for the guy who owned Pat Pong, where many of the teachers hung out(including me ). There were 3 Filipinos, 2 Germans, an American who boasted about his Khao San Road Masters. There was an Scottish criminal who nobody understood, apart from me. He had moved to Thailand racking up a debt on credit cards for 100k GBP. Actually a good, friendly bunch but very sad for the little girls studying there. There were two females who smoked dope and could drink most men under the table. I would be very surprised if was in the top 20 schools in Bangkok these days, unless they really cleaned u their act.

Name and reputation mean very little.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Neeranam

[isawasnake]

I would never even consider sending my kids to a Thai English program.

I'm guessing you are well off or you don't live in Thailand.

Ha. I taught in Thailand at one of the better EP's I'd say. It was a joke. I would not send my kid anywhere near the place unless I wanted their education to be about how to disrespect teachers and get away with it etc etc etc.

I taught in a school on Convent Road, which was one of the most prestigious in Thailand - Thaksin's daughter was there! The first year they started their English program with P1-3.

There were were 2 chronic alcoholics there who always taking time off sick, one Cockney guy who left school at 15 who asked me once how to spell 'sugar', who subsequently went on to smuggle large quantities of drugs for the guy who owned Pat Pong, where many of the teachers hung out(including me ). There were 3 Filipinos, 2 Germans, an American who boasted about his Khao San Road Masters. There was an Scottish criminal who nobody understood, apart from me. He had moved to Thailand racking up a debt on credit cards for 100k GBP. Actually a good, friendly bunch but very sad for the little girls studying there. There were two females who smoked dope and could drink most men under the table. I would be very surprised if was in the top 20 schools in Bangkok these days, unless they really cleaned u their act.

Name and reputation mean very little.

I know the school, and yes it is a very typical EP program.... meaning it is scary. In fairness there are much better options, but not too much better. The only improvements you will see are superficial. The teaching is really no better at the EP programs that top the "convent school," and the reason is because the teachers are not given the authority to do any sort of real discipline. The students always win. The Thai teachers also show disdain for the foreign teachers, which I am sure you experienced, and student behavior follows suit. It is fine by me, but it is their school system and it is a complete abomination, so do what you may.

[billd766]

I am a teacher in a mini EP, and my son goes to my school. He is 8 years old and is educated in the Thai system, not the EP. His English is fluent so he has no need for English exposure. I would personally put any child I had in the "ordinary" classes, and pay for English tuition out of school. I have worked in 3 similar programmes that have all been the same, that is, run as a business.

The students I have encountered learn that they will get great grades no matter what, and this makes them lazy in class. I submit grades that reflect the tests, yet I have students who have scored 10% receiving a grade 4. A good EP will have students that fail, so ask about pass rates One home room teacher where I am at the moment demanded at least 80% for all the students in her class, if you see something like this run for the hills.

If you are going to put a child in an EP check on class sizes, and look for a max of 30 students. Make an impromptu visit and sit in on a class run by a native speaker. Check out the homeroom teacher and the co-teacher and make sure they can communicate with you in English. The facilities to me are not the most important thing (or my son would be in an EP), but multimedia lessons are more interesting and set context much easier for students, so look for them and ask how they are used.

It is my opinion that the basic EP is a way to make money for a school, and for parents to appear hi-so. There is no doubt that your kids will be hobnobbing with other "rich" kids and is thus great for networking. However, I think to suggest that the standard of teaching in an EP is different to that in a general programme is wrong. It depends who is teaching and the motivations that the students have.

By the way, The Mini EP I work for is no where near the worst, and is actually the best, I have worked in (as is the school).

If you are serious about education send your kids to a school that follows a foreign curriculum, or do a lot of home tutoring (as me and my wife do). Come the time for Matayom school, my boy will either be in a private school or I will be moving back home.

Can you please tell me where I can get the information and content about home tutoring?

Edited July 30, 2014 by billd766

[nellyp]

I am a teacher in a mini EP, and my son goes to my school. He is 8 years old and is educated in the Thai system, not the EP. His English is fluent so he has no need for English exposure. I would personally put any child I had in the "ordinary" classes, and pay for English tuition out of school. I have worked in 3 similar programmes that have all been the same, that is, run as a business.

The students I have encountered learn that they will get great grades no matter what, and this makes them lazy in class. I submit grades that reflect the tests, yet I have students who have scored 10% receiving a grade 4. A good EP will have students that fail, so ask about pass rates One home room teacher where I am at the moment demanded at least 80% for all the students in her class, if you see something like this run for the hills.

If you are going to put a child in an EP check on class sizes, and look for a max of 30 students. Make an impromptu visit and sit in on a class run by a native speaker. Check out the homeroom teacher and the co-teacher and make sure they can communicate with you in English. The facilities to me are not the most important thing (or my son would be in an EP), but multimedia lessons are more interesting and set context much easier for students, so look for them and ask how they are used.

It is my opinion that the basic EP is a way to make money for a school, and for parents to appear hi-so. There is no doubt that your kids will be hobnobbing with other "rich" kids and is thus great for networking. However, I think to suggest that the standard of teaching in an EP is different to that in a general programme is wrong. It depends who is teaching and the motivations that the students have.

By the way, The Mini EP I work for is no where near the worst, and is actually the best, I have worked in (as is the school).

If you are serious about education send your kids to a school that follows a foreign curriculum, or do a lot of home tutoring (as me and my wife do). Come the time for Matayom school, my boy will either be in a private school or I will be moving back home.

Can you please tell me where I can get the information and content about home tutoring?

There are home tutoring sites and forums all over the net.

I simply compliment what is being taught to my kids as I find it necessary. Though reinforcement is a great tool, I want my kids to have more quality time than Thai kids, so I don't teach everything in the curriculum to them. I concentrate on English using comprehension exercises as they need no conversation (both born in the UK), and comprehension covers reading, writing, new vocab, grammar, and understanding. I can teach maths to my kids age range easily (I have taught up to M6 .......without a.degree, and yes, that is too high for me to be totally competent), and I also teach science through everyday life and general conversation,concentrating on questions he has from school work when applicable. My one son is 8, the other 4, and I believe I can teach them until M4 in science (when it splits from general science into biology, chemistry, and physics)with what I know already from teaching and research, and maths (confidently) to M4 too.

As I said, I do not have a degree in science or maths, but I am confident while teaching both subjects (I am in a Prathom school at the moment). Whether, as a paying parent, I would want somebody like myself teaching my kids I am not sure. However, I know that my kids will not suffer from my teaching, and that their lessons will be more interesting than the rote learning that I have seen in science classes here.

Edited July 30, 2014 by nellyp

[brucetefl]

I love this stuff, but it is more for high school students:

http://www.youtube.com/user/crashcourse

Bu there is loads of stuff out there. Even entire Home Schooling curriculum. Google is your friend.

Edited July 30, 2014 by brucetefl

[lostinisaan]

I love this stuff, but it is more for high school students:

http://www.youtube.com/user/crashcourse

Bu there is loads of stuff out there. Even entire Home Schooling curriculum. Google is your friend.

Or Buddha? And Facebook.?

Edited July 30, 2014 by lostinisaan

[Thai at Heart]

Sent both kids to private bilingual school for primary school. not govt EP and all in all quite happy.

Proper foreign teachers so it wasn't cheap but the kids are well up with fitting into school in UK. International is very hit and miss. Some are good and some are truly horrible.

EP in govt school. Can't say I know anyone who is universally happy with it.

[Sawan Chan 7]

I sent my daughter to an EP because of financial constraints. She went on graduate from an English university. However, I doubt the teachers at her school were qualified as they said and they certainly didn't have degrees in their subject. She needed private tutoring. If I could turn back time, I would send her to a normal Thai program. The people who benefit in an EP are the directors and to some extent the teachers.

[CroBiker]

.... even using American accent.

And what's wrong with an American accent?

Nothing. It's a good thing

[harrry]

.... even using American accent.

And what's wrong with an American accent?

Nothing. It's a good thing

In america.

[DJVillain]

Absolutely not...

I don't have kids yet, but I would certainly want my child/children to have a better quality, internationally recognised education from my home country than one that can be paid for and that they can't fail. I would take my kid back home to the UK for free education where they have to earn their place. They could continue to learn Thai from their mother and when the child is old enough, if he/she wants, we can come back to Thailand.

The refusal to acknowledge failure and/or stupidity is the main problem with the Thai education system... Nobody fails and stupid kids get lumped in the same class with the genuinely bright kids who actively try to learn, want to be there and actually deserve to be there through merit, not just daddies bank balance...

Many kids in my school are not in the EP, but have better understanding of the English language than kids that are... Those kids should be in EP on merit... but of course, hard work earns dick all in Thailand when money is involved...