Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Arkady]

An off topic post was deleted.

[jayboy]

My White Certificate of Residence book is nearly full. I also have to get my new multiple re-entry shortly. I'm not sure whether issuing the new book can be easily (and quickly!) done at the same time as getting the multiple re-entry. Would it be sensible to make these two separate exercises?

[DepDavid]

Do you need a work permit to apply for permanent residency. I moved here and hold retirement visa only.


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[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, DepDavid said:

Do you need a work permit to apply for permanent residency.

Yes you do. You have to working with one and paying taxes for 3 years to apply for PR.

[Arkady]

21 hours ago, jayboy said:

My White Certificate of Residence book is nearly full. I also have to get my new multiple re-entry shortly. I'm not sure whether issuing the new book can be easily (and quickly!) done at the same time as getting the multiple re-entry. Would it be sensible to make these two separate exercises?

Yes, you can get both things done at the same time and they expect you to do this, so there is no problem.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

Yes, you can get both things done at the same time and they expect you to do this, so there is no problem.

Many thanks

[AndreasF]

May I ask for advice from the more experienced expats?

I am German citizen with Thai Permanent Residence since 2012.

I am plannig to get married to a Korean citizen in Thailand and to register the marriage here.

Would my korean wife than be able to apply for a Non-O marriage visa?

 

Thank you very much!

Andreas

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, AndreasF said:

Would my korean wife than be able to apply for a Non-O marriage visa?

She would be able to apply for a single entry non-o visa and then a one year extension of stay based upon being your wife.

See: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_19 

If she is here on a tourist visa or visa exempt entry she could apply for the non-o visa entry at immigration as well up to the last 15 days of her current entry.

[scorecard]

On 12/6/2018 at 9:35 PM, Arkady said:

Yes, you can get both things done at the same time and they expect you to do this, so there is no problem.

I did both 'exercises' about 8 months back at Chaeng Watthana, as follows:

 

Step 1, new PR book:

 

- Deposit near full White book, 2 photos plus originals and copies of passport, police red book and tabien baan book (special little section, 2 female officers, neither of them rude but not all that friendly, no other customers, kept me waiting just outside their cubicle for 30 minutes while they chatted and did no work).

 

Then 'Come back in 4 days to pick up new book and pay the money'.

 

I asked about new exit / re-entry stamp. Answer: 'come back in 4 days'.

 

I returned at the 4 days*, waited, then collected the new book and paid. I asked again about exit / re-entry stamp. Answer 'tee noon' (over there) and pointed to another cubicle.

 

* In reality preparation of the new white book entails hand writing (copying) some simple details from one book to another  less than 10 minutes work (but perhaps there is some further check that customers don't see.) Pasting the new photo in isn't done until the person turns up to collect the new book, takes less than a minute. 

 

Step 2: New exit/re-entry stamp:

 

At next cubicle 2 ladies very polite, welcoming and helpful, new exit/re-entry stamp completed in new PR book and in my passport and paid in about 15 minutes.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by scorecard

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, AndreasF said:

May I ask for advice from the more experienced expats?

I am German citizen with Thai Permanent Residence since 2012.

I am plannig to get married to a Korean citizen in Thailand and to register the marriage here.

Would my korean wife than be able to apply for a Non-O marriage visa?

 

Thank you very much!

Andreas

Perhaps I'm wrong but unless Thailand allows to marry two non-Thai nationals and unless the German embassy allows to marry a German citizen with a foreign citizen (for instance my embassy allows this only for two citizens of my country) I would not think this is possible. Did you check the feasibility of such marriage already?

[ubonjoe]

42 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Perhaps I'm wrong but unless Thailand allows to marry two non-Thai nationals and unless the German embassy allows to marry a German citizen with a foreign citizen (for instance my embassy allows this only for two citizens of my country) I would not think this is possible.

They can register their marriage at an Amphoe without a problem. Both will need a affirmation of permit to marry from their embassy.

I don't think it really matters what an embassy wants since they are not the ones that register the marriage.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, AndreasF said:

May I ask for advice from the more experienced expats?

I am German citizen with Thai Permanent Residence since 2012.

I am plannig to get married to a Korean citizen in Thailand and to register the marriage here.

Would my korean wife than be able to apply for a Non-O marriage visa?

 

Thank you very much!

Andreas

Your wife should also be able to apply for PR too later on, based on being married to a PR. I forget the rules for this but I remember a friend was planning to do it some years ago. If you are both PRs, any children you have in Thailand will be entitled to Thai citizenship.

[sas_cars]

Your wife should also be able to apply for PR too later on, based on being married to a PR. I forget the rules for this but I remember a friend was planning to do it some years ago. If you are both PRs, any children you have in Thailand will be entitled to Thai citizenship.

Applying for PR on basis of a PR spouse are as stringent as applying PR for one's self in the first place. The husband will have to qualify as per having to apply PR a second time. It's much easier, cost and time effective for the husband to get citizenship first and then have the wife apply for citizenship based on him.

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[thedemon]

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

I did both 'exercises' about 8 months back at Chaeng Watthana, as follows:

 

Step 1, new PR book:

 

- Deposit near full White book, 2 photos plus originals and copies of passport, police red book and tabien baan book (special little section, 2 female officers, neither of them rude but not all that friendly, no other customers, kept me waiting just outside their cubicle for 30 minutes while they chatted and did no work).

 

Then 'Come back in 4 days to pick up new book and pay the money'.

 

I asked about new exit / re-entry stamp. Answer: 'come back in 4 days'.

 

I returned at the 4 days*, waited, then collected the new book and paid. I asked again about exit / re-entry stamp. Answer 'tee noon' (over there) and pointed to another cubicle.

 

* In reality preparation of the new white book entails hand writing (copying) some simple details from one book to another  less than 10 minutes work (but perhaps there is some further check that customers don't see.) Pasting the new photo in isn't done until the person turns up to collect the new book, takes less than a minute. 

 

Step 2: New exit/re-entry stamp:

 

At next cubicle 2 ladies very polite, welcoming and helpful, new exit/re-entry stamp completed in new PR book and in my passport and paid in about 15 minutes.

 

 

I did the same thing last year and yes, officially it's 4 working days to have a new PR book issued. However they offered me another solution whereby I could get the new book and have a new re-entry/endorsement stamped all in under an hour.

[sas_cars]

I did the same thing last year and yes, officially it's 4 working days to have a new PR book issued. However they offered me another solution whereby I could get the new book and have a new re-entry/endorsement stamped all in under an hour.

I guess it's tea money. Lol. How much?

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[onthemoon]

8 hours ago, thedemon said:

I did the same thing last year and yes, officially it's 4 working days to have a new PR book issued. However they offered me another solution whereby I could get the new book and have a new re-entry/endorsement stamped all in under an hour.

It's always been a couple of days for me for the new white book, and I always do it at the same time as the new re-entry stamp (excuse me: the Endorsement and Non-Quota Immigrant Visa to ensure every year over and over again that our "permanent" residence does not expire).

 

The ladies have always been polite and helpful.

[scorecard]

52 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

It's always been a couple of days for me for the new white book, and I always do it at the same time as the new re-entry stamp (excuse me: the Endorsement and Non-Quota Immigrant Visa to ensure every year over and over again that our "permanent" residence does not expire).

 

The ladies have always been polite and helpful.

Confusing.  "...to ensure every year over and over again that our "permanent" residence does not expire)."

 

 

 

Re Non-Quota Immigrant Visa to ensure every year over and over again that our "permanent" residence does not expire)" There is no need to do this. Once PR has been approved and blue PR book (when full then a white book) it's for life Permanent Residency (unless it's cancelled because you stayed out more than 365 days in one block period or if you get a criminal record in any country). There is no annual re-approval, it's approved for life. So over the moon, what do you mean, what immigration form do you use to get this stamp and what does this annual stamp look like? Can you please take a photo of the stamp(s) (cover personal details) and post it here.

 

 

Re exit/re-entry  Exit/re-entry stamps, is not a 'compulsory' annual stamp, you can go for many years without any exit/re-entry stamp). PR holders only need to get this stamp (example single exit/re-entry stamp) when you have a specific plan to leave LOS on a holiday or whatever and return. Or commonly some PR holders folks who regularly go in and out often get a one year multi entry exit/re-entry stamps, but there is no regulation that it's compulsory and/or must be renewed by a certain date etc., every year. The date you go and get the single or the multi entry exit/re-entry stamps is entirely up to you.

And note: this is a completely different item, nothing to do with the actual approval to hold PR.

 

So how does "....Non-Quota Immigrant Visa to ensure every year over and over again that our "permanent" residence does not expire)" connect to the above (re exit/re-entry stamps)?

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by scorecard

[Badb0y]

Sorry to recap this, but is there anybody knows based on the precious answers, do we need 3 years marriage or not if we want to apply on the half price PR? Next year I will full fill everything, I don’t want to fail because of late marriage.


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[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Badb0y said:

Sorry to recap this, but is there anybody knows based on the precious answers, do we need 3 years marriage or not if we want to apply on the half price PR? Next year I will full fill everything, I don’t want to fail because of late marriage.

There is no requirement to be married for three years when you apply for PR.

Are you aware you could apply for Thai citizenship without needing to be on PR first if married to a Thai. The fee is much lower and the income requirement is only 40k baht. You can apply for it at any time without waiting for a set period of time to do it.

[Badb0y]

There is no requirement to be married for three years when you apply for PR.

Are you aware you could apply for Thai citizenship without needing to be on PR first if married to a Thai. The fee is much lower and the income requirement is only 40k baht. You can apply for it at any time without waiting for a set period of time to do it.

The problem with Thai citizenship I have to leave my original citizenship and this one I don’t want.

[onthemoon]

10 hours ago, scorecard said:

Confusing.  "...to ensure every year over and over again that our "permanent" residence does not expire)."

 

 

 

Re Non-Quota Immigrant Visa to ensure every year over and over again that our "permanent" residence does not expire)" There is no need to do this. Once PR has been approved and blue PR book (when full then a white book) it's for life Permanent Residency (unless it's cancelled because you stayed out more than 365 days in one block period or if you get a criminal record in any country). There is no annual re-approval, it's approved for life. So over the moon, what do you mean, what immigration form do you use to get this stamp and what does this annual stamp look like? Can you please take a photo of the stamp(s) (cover personal details) and post it here.

 

 

Re exit/re-entry  Exit/re-entry stamps, is not a 'compulsory' annual stamp, you can go for many years without any exit/re-entry stamp). PR holders only need to get this stamp (example single exit/re-entry stamp) when you have a specific plan to leave LOS on a holiday or whatever and return. Or commonly some PR holders folks who regularly go in and out often get a one year multi entry exit/re-entry stamps, but there is no regulation that it's compulsory and/or must be renewed by a certain date etc., every year. The date you go and get the single or the multi entry exit/re-entry stamps is entirely up to you.

And note: this is a completely different item, nothing to do with the actual approval to hold PR.

 

So how does "....Non-Quota Immigrant Visa to ensure every year over and over again that our "permanent" residence does not expire)" connect to the above (re exit/re-entry stamps)?

 

 

I'm sorry, but you are confusing things to the extent that new readers get the wrong impression.

 

Non-Quota Immigrant Visa (that's a stamp in my passport) and Endorsement (the same stamp, with another title and another running number) are absolutely necessary if you leave the country and still want to be a PR holder upon return. I leave the country for business about once or twice a month on average, and one time, the stamps had just expired. The immigration officer at departure was friendly enough to check before he stamped me out of the country, and asked me whether I really want to do that. I cancelled my flight and took a taxi to Chaeng Wattana instead. I am not sending you a copy of my stamps. But if you go to Chaeng Wattana, they will give you the right forms.

 

Without these two stamps, the permanent residency is anything but permanent - unless you never leave the country. The option to leave must always be open. And please, do compare this to PR status in other countries. Once you have PR status, it is *permanent*, regardless of whether you sometimes (or even often) leave the country.

 

Since you you mention the White Book, you know it is a replacement book for the Blue Book. The only people I know with a White Book are those who had to get a new one because the Blue Book was full. So I assume you know very well what I am talking about. Why do you want to confuse people in this list?

[scorecard]

21 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

 

I'm sorry, but you are confusing things to the extent that new readers get the wrong impression.

 

Non-Quota Immigrant Visa (that's a stamp in my passport) and Endorsement (the same stamp, with another title and another running number) are absolutely necessary if you leave the country and still want to be a PR holder upon return. I leave the country for business about once or twice a month on average, and one time, the stamps had just expired. The immigration officer at departure was friendly enough to check before he stamped me out of the country, and asked me whether I really want to do that. I cancelled my flight and took a taxi to Chaeng Wattana instead. I am not sending you a copy of my stamps. But if you go to Chaeng Wattana, they will give you the right forms.

 

Without these two stamps, the permanent residency is anything but permanent - unless you never leave the country. The option to leave must always be open. And please, do compare this to PR status in other countries. Once you have PR status, it is *permanent*, regardless of whether you sometimes (or even often) leave the country.

 

Since you you mention the White Book, you know it is a replacement book for the Blue Book. The only people I know with a White Book are those who had to get a new one because the Blue Book was full. So I assume you know very well what I am talking about. Why do you want to confuse people in this list?

Sorry but I don't believe I am confusing anybody.

 

But I think you are.

 

Most / maybe all PR holders are well aware that you must have an exit / re-entry stamp before you approach the passport desk. If you don't have the exit/re-entry stamp and you wish to proceed and leave then yes your PR is in serious jepody to be cancelled. Well known.

 

You say the Imm. officer asked you about this and you then went back to Chaeng Wattana.

 

At that point in time there was no need to re-confirm / get re-approval of PR*, but yes there was a need for you to get an exit /re-entry stamp. And by the way the exit/re-entry stamp can be obtained at the airport before you approach the passport desks.

 

       * Personally I have never heard of PR re-approval / any requirement for

       re-approval and I've had PR well over 20 years. If other PR holders are

       aware of this would you please share, perhaps I need to learn something,

       thank you.

 

Yes I am well aware of the blue then white book, I just started my third white book.

 

By the way, what Permanent Resident means in other countries and how it's administered is bound be different country by country and has no bearing on how it's administered in Thailand.  

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by scorecard

[onthemoon]

8 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Most / maybe all PR holders are well aware that you must have an exit / re-entry stamp before you approach the passport desk. If you don't have the exit/re-entry stamp and you wish to proceed and leave then yes your PR is in serious jepody to be cancelled. Well known.

If it's well known to you, that's fine. There may be many readers who are not very familiar with this unintuitive regulation and need to know this.

 

Our conversation has just clarified that in Thailand, you need to get an endorsement and a new visa every year if you have PR, even though the PR is confusingly called "permanent" - it vapourises the moment you leave the country without these yearly stamps. Nothing permanent about that.

 

This is not normal in an international context, so it does need to be pointed out. To the newbies here, as well as to the government.

[samran]

4 hours ago, Badb0y said:

The problem with Thai citizenship I have to leave my original citizenship and this one I don’t want.

What is your current citizenship?

[samran]

9 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

If it's well known to you, that's fine. There may be many readers who are not very familiar with this unintuitive regulation and need to know this.

 

Our conversation has just clarified that in Thailand, you need to get an endorsement and a new visa every year if you have PR, even though the PR is confusingly called "permanent" - it vapourises the moment you leave the country without these yearly stamps. Nothing permanent about that.

 

This is not normal in an international context, so it does need to be pointed out. To the newbies here, as well as to the government.

Not quite. Australia and NZ require PRs to get Return Resident Visas before travelling otherwise PR does expire on depture.

 

Unlike Thailand however they are automatically granted when one gains PR and have to be renewed (in the case of Australia) every 3 months, 1 year or 5 years depending on length of time spent in Australia as a PR.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

If it's well known to you, that's fine. There may be many readers who are not very familiar with this unintuitive regulation and need to know this.

 

Our conversation has just clarified that in Thailand, you need to get an endorsement and a new visa every year if you have PR, even though the PR is confusingly called "permanent" - it vapourises the moment you leave the country without these yearly stamps. Nothing permanent about that.

 

This is not normal in an international context, so it does need to be pointed out. To the newbies here, as well as to the government.

 

When you obtain an exit/re-entry stamp it's placed in your original passport and your PR book, and the words on the stamp placed in your passport are:

_____________________________________________________

       NON-QUOTA IMMIGRANT VISA

 

       No.  ................................................ 

 

       This visa is good for  multiple  return journeys to Thailand. 

       It must be utilized before ......................

 

_____________________________________________________

In reality this is an exit/re-entry stamping.

Is this what you see as PR re-approval?

 

Let's remember that this stamp only goes into a passport when the PR holder requests an exit / re-entry stamp.

 

If it's a single entry exit/re-entry stamp it could be stamped into the passport and used tomorrow to leave Thailand and return to Thailand the next day. On return this stamp is now redundant (used). In other words it's not a re-approval of PR, and it's not an annual re-approval of PR, remembering that another single journey exit/re-entry stamp might be obtained and used the next week. Annual is not in the picture.

 

To continue, maybe the PR holder doesn't apply for an exit/re-entry stamp (single journey or multiple journeys) for another ten years. But you seem to be saying that there is a requirement for PR re-approval every year.

 

In 20 plus years nobody at the passport control desks (out or in) has ever mentioned anything about this, and when I have applied for a new PR blue then white book (because old book close to full - now recently started the third white book) nobody has ever mentioned that I should have got an annual PR re-approval before I applied for an exit/re-entry stamp.

 

 

Can I please ask other PR holders, do you get an annual PR re-approval stamp in your passport? (Not meaning an exit/re-entry stamp, which is a different matter). 

 

Thanks.

 

Further, you mention 'endorsement'.

 

Endorsement in this scenario actually means 'copied', and means that the exit/re-entry stamp just placed in the passport is endorsed / copied into the PR book. 

 

All PR holders pay 3,800Baht for the exit/re-entry stamp to be placed in their passport.

 

Then all PR holders pay 1,900Baht for the same stamp / details to be endorsed /copied into the PR book.

 

 

Arkady / other PR holders would you please share your understanding on all of this.

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by scorecard

[Badb0y]

What is your current citizenship?

Hungarian

[mortenaa]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

If it's well known to you, that's fine. There may be many readers who are not very familiar with this unintuitive regulation and need to know this.

 

Our conversation has just clarified that in Thailand, you need to get an endorsement and a new visa every year if you have PR, even though the PR is confusingly called "permanent" - it vapourises the moment you leave the country without these yearly stamps. Nothing permanent about that.

 

This is not normal in an international context, so it does need to be pointed out. To the newbies here, as well as to the government.

If you don't need to leave the country, you don't need to ever go to Immigration again. With PR You can live happily ever after ????

PR IS permanent! 

[Kinnock]

I'm getting very confused reading the last few posts.  

 

I currently have a Non Imm annual multi entry based on me setting up a BOI  business, and it gets renewed each year.  I don't have to do anything special when leaving or returning on business trips each month, and my entry visa is always stamped as valid to the expiry date of the current annual Non Imm stamp.

 

I'm currently applying for a PR, and have an 'application in progress' stamp in my passport that I was told to not use when leaving or re-entering Thailand.  I was told that having paid local tax for 8 years would help getting a PR, and that is was worth getting while I'm still working.

 

I had thought that getting PR at some point in the future was a good idea, as my current re-entry status is based on my work, so if I retire here I thought PR would be better after I finished working.  Now it sounds like it's of limited value and adds complexity when entering and leaving Thailand?

 

Am I going for the wrong option?

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Kinnock said:

I'm getting very confused reading the last few posts.  

 

I currently have a Non Imm annual multi entry based on me setting up a BOI  business, and it gets renewed each year.  I don't have to do anything special when leaving or returning on business trips each month, and my entry visa is always stamped as valid to the expiry date of the current annual Non Imm stamp.

 

I'm currently applying for a PR, and have an 'application in progress' stamp in my passport that I was told to not use when leaving or re-entering Thailand.  I was told that having paid local tax for 8 years would help getting a PR, and that is was worth getting while I'm still working.

 

I had thought that getting PR at some point in the future was a good idea, as my current re-entry status is based on my work, so if I retire here I thought PR would be better after I finished working.  Now it sounds like it's of limited value and adds complexity when entering and leaving Thailand?

 

Am I going for the wrong option?

 

 

I can't comment on your first several paragraphs.

 

After gaining PR yes you need to have an exit/re-entry stamp if you want to leave on a holiday or whatever.

 

The exit/re-entry stamp can be for just one journey out and return (single entry and it's valid for 12 months after the date it's entered in your documents).

 

Or a multiple entry exit/re-entry stamp, good for unlimited journeys in and out and valid for 12 months after the date it's entered in your passport.

 

Exit/re-entry stamps are not compulsory if you don't intend to leave and return, and it's not an annual process, you apply for an exit/re-entry stamp as you need it.

 

If a PR holder never wanted to leave Thailand then that person would never have to get an exit/re-entry stamp, and that person would never have to do any type of paperwork to retain PR ever again, nothing for the rest of their life.  

 

Please don't see the exit/re-entry stamp as a complex process, it's absolutely not; fill in the application form, easy enough, lodge the application and your documents and the exit/re-entry stamps is inserted in your passport and your PR book, and you pay the fee.

 

It's a small nuisance, but there is no complex consideration whether it will or won't be approved / issued, it's all just a simple clerical item very mechanical. 

 

With respect I encourage you to not see this as a negative or any reason to not pursue PR.

 

 

And as said above by Morteena:

 

"If you don't need to leave the country, you don't need to ever go to Immigration again. With PR You can live happily ever after 

PR IS permanent!" 

 

Good luck. 

Edited January 1, 2019 by scorecard