Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Michael Hare]

17 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Hoping this will become standard practice at every airport.

 

One final question, did you join the Thai or foreigners departure line at passport control?

I join any departure line that has the shortest queue. 

 

[scorecard]

On 5/26/2022 at 3:23 PM, onthemoon said:

That's the way it should be. In Bangkok, they protect the environment by getting rid of all the nasty trees, that's why they need paper forms for everything.

 

In fact, the whole re-entry permit (oh sorry, "Non-quota Imm Visa" and "endorsement") should be on the internet. I am willing to pay the fee (by credit card), I don't mind the fee. I do mind the fact that I have to travel all the way to CW and lose half a day.

 

It would be even better if they cancelled the requirement for this re-entry altogether; a PR should include the right to multiple re-entries automatically. Like in other countries. But I know, I'm dreaming...

 I agree however my thoughts are that there should be 2 items:

 

- No need at all for exit/re-entry stamps, but perhaps a limit on total time outside Thailand in one block period, perhaps 2 years.

 

- No need for work permits but retain the list of ocupations reserved for Thai citizens.

• (But this possibly needs further a rework of some regulations because right now work permits are needed by PR holders as one of the requirements to apply for Thai citizenship. Shouldn't be difficult to rework the regulations.)

 

 

 

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 I agree however my thoughts are that there should be 2 items:

 

- No need at all for exit/re-entry stamps, but perhaps a limit on total time outside Thailand in one block period, perhaps 2 years.

 

- No need for work permits but retain the list of ocupations reserved for Thai citizens.

• (But this possibly needs further a rework of some regulations because right now work permits are needed by PR holders as one of the requirements to apply for Thai citizenship. Shouldn't be difficult to rework the regulations.)

I talked with some big guy at the Min of Industry a few weeks ago. He had held a speech about the new LTR visa, and that the holders don't need a work permit because they showing commitment to the country. So I asked him how about PR holders, haven't we shown commitment? He admitted that we have, and we even handed in a pile of paperwork etc. The reason the WP is still required for us is that there are so very few PR holders and they didn't think about us. He would bring it up in the next meeting...

I am not holding my breath. 

[scorecard]

16 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

I talked with some big guy at the Min of Industry a few weeks ago. He had held a speech about the new LTR visa, and that the holders don't need a work permit because they showing commitment to the country. So I asked him how about PR holders, haven't we shown commitment? He admitted that we have, and we even handed in a pile of paperwork etc. The reason the WP is still required for us is that there are so very few PR holders and they didn't think about us. He would bring it up in the next meeting...

I am not holding my breath. 

Thanks for sharing. 

 

If there's an opportunity maybe the discussion could expand to why do PR holders have to keep working, with a work permit, to fulfill the WP requirements to  apply for citizenship. 

 

Must be some/many PR holders (25 years) who have retired and would like to try for citizenship but can't because they don't have a WP at time of application for citizenship.

 

I've always wondered why a WP is needed in this situation. Someone who has had a WP a long time (e.g. 25 years) surely has displayed a long-term/strong commitment to Thailand. 

 

I can't see that holding a WP to apply for citizenship is critical/has any strategic meaning in any way.

 

[scorecard]

On 5/27/2022 at 11:21 AM, Michael Hare said:

I join any departure line that has the shortest queue. 

 

I've done that too, however a couple of times a roving imm. officer has noticed I'm holding a PR book as well as passport and invited me with a little 'push' to the shortest Thai line.

 

Not a big deal of course. 

[onthemoon]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I've done that too, however a couple of times a roving imm. officer has noticed I'm holding a PR book as well as passport and invited me with a little 'push' to the shortest Thai line.

 

Not a big deal of course. 

At one time, when arriving at DMK, the immigration officer said I am not Thai and really have to go to the (very long) foreigner's line - with or without PR. She was so gracious to allow me this time and but I should remember for next time... I just shook my head in disbelief.

[orientalist]

Seen at Suvarnabhumi September 2019. At last!

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by orientalist

[Bangel72]

Interesting confusion getting my re-entry permit the other day. I had one just before covid kicked in and cancelled my trip so I ended up not leaving the country on my previous one at all.

 

Just for a moment I thought they may refund the unused one but no had to pay extra to get it stamped as used before paying for new one.

 

Worth bearing in mind if you are getting a re-entry permit, you need to use it or it will cost you again to cancel it even though its out of date.

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, Bangel72 said:

Interesting confusion getting my re-entry permit the other day. I had one just before covid kicked in and cancelled my trip so I ended up not leaving the country on my previous one at all.

 

Just for a moment I thought they may refund the unused one but no had to pay extra to get it stamped as used before paying for new one.

 

Worth bearing in mind if you are getting a re-entry permit, you need to use it or it will cost you again to cancel it even though its out of date.

No need to look for logic in this.

[Michael Hare]

15 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

Interesting confusion getting my re-entry permit the other day. I had one just before covid kicked in and cancelled my trip so I ended up not leaving the country on my previous one at all.

 

Just for a moment I thought they may refund the unused one but no had to pay extra to get it stamped as used before paying for new one.

 

Worth bearing in mind if you are getting a re-entry permit, you need to use it or it will cost you again to cancel it even though its out of date.

Strange. My unused re-entry permit is now three years old. What is the charge to get it stamped as used? I think it will be another 2-3 years before I decide to leave Thailand. By that time the permit will be out of date by over 5 years. 

[scorecard]

43 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

Strange. My unused re-entry permit is now three years old. What is the charge to get it stamped as used? I think it will be another 2-3 years before I decide to leave Thailand. By that time the permit will be out of date by over 5 years. 

Seems to me that it will automatically expire (with no further action needed) when the end date arrives (which is stamped in both passport and PR book with the exit/re-entry stamp).

[Haddo]

I just went to do my re-entry (exit) on my PR (hadn't done it for over 2 years) and picked up a couple of spare forms, so attached here are scans of them - TM13 and TM22 - for anyone who might be going to do it soon (so you can complete them in advance). All in all it took just over an hour to get it done. 

 

TM13 2022 scan.pdf TM22 2022 scan.pdf

[regedit]

It's been a couple if years since I last did the re-entry endorsement. Was looking on website for requirements - what is #4 ?

 

Assume I can do the endorsement at Pattaya even though my address is Bangkok?

 

Thanks.

[scorecard]

41 minutes ago, regedit said:

It's been a couple if years since I last did the re-entry endorsement. Was looking on website for requirements - what is #4 ?

 

Assume I can do the endorsement at Pattaya even though my address is Bangkok?

 

Thanks.

I've obtained a multiple entry exit/re-entry stamp before at: Pattaya, Chaeng Wattana and Chiang Mai immigration office. No hesitation to go right ahead and issue the stamp at all 3 locations. Same fees.

Edited June 7, 2022 by scorecard

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, regedit said:

It's been a couple if years since I last did the re-entry endorsement. Was looking on website for requirements - what is #4 ?

 

Assume I can do the endorsement at Pattaya even though my address is Bangkok?

 

Thanks.

I believe that #4 is referring to the red police book.

[regedit]

11 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I believe that #4 is referring to the red police book.

Thanks- I thought that was the residence book mentioned, but reading it again, the residence book will be the yellow/blue book.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

43 minutes ago, regedit said:

Thanks- I thought that was the residence book mentioned, but reading it again, the residence book will be the yellow/blue book.

I think the permanent residence book referred to in #3 is the tm 16 or its replacement, the tm 17. The tm 16 has a dark blue cover and the replacement tm 17's is white.  These are not the same as the yellow or blue tabien baan documents issued by the amphur. 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I think the permanent residence book referred to in #3 is the tm 16 or its replacement, the tm 17. The tm 16 has a dark blue cover and the replacement tm 17's is white.  These are not the same as the yellow or blue tabien baan documents issued by the amphur. 

Agree, they are totally different documents with a totally different purpose and administered by different gov't agencies with no overlap. 

[orientalist]

Do we need to take the actual blue tabien baan or can it be a current one-page extract from the District Office?

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

12 minutes ago, orientalist said:

Do we need to take the actual blue tabien baan or can it be a current one-page extract from the District Office?

 

Immigration isn't interested in seeing the tabien baan.

 

You just need your passport, permanent residence book (tm16/tm17) and red police book along with the application, photos and fees.

 

 

[scorecard]

48 minutes ago, orientalist said:

Do we need to take the actual blue tabien baan or can it be a current one-page extract from the District Office?

 

Tabien Baan book is part of Amphur records to know who lives at what house and not much more. Not relevant to immigration processes. 

 

In reality, if your RED police registration book is up to date your full residential address is in this book. 

[stbkk]

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

Tabien Baan book is part of Amphur records to know who lives at what house and not much more. Not relevant to immigration processes. 

 

In reality, if your RED police registration book is up to date your full residential address is in this book. 

I did mine a few weeks back at CW in Bangkok, and everything is the same as it always was.

1. The two forms, with a photo on each.

2. The PR book. Blue for the first one, or white for subsequent ones if you have filled up the blue one.

3. The red 'police book' as we all seem to call it.

4. Your money!

 

If I remember correctly I needed to take the tabian baan when I had filled my blue PR book and needed to get a replacement, but never for a regular re-entry visa.

 

Still amused to be fingerprinted each time. And the huge old-fashioned ledgers still in use. Thailand as usual waiting to be dragged into somewhere near the modern world.

 

Hope that helps.

[orientalist]

5 minutes ago, stbkk said:

If I remember correctly I needed to take the tabian baan when I had filled my blue PR book and needed to get a replacement

Yes, I remember they asked for the blue book when my first PR book was full.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, orientalist said:

Yes, I remember they asked for the blue book when my first PR book was full.

I got my white PR book (to replace full blue book) at the old office in Soi Suan Plu. All done quickly, the head lady was standing at the door when I walked in. Good English she asked what I wanted, I showed her my full blue PR book, passport and RED police book, very pleasantly she expalined they would, on the spot, issue a new book white covered. She pleasantly told a junior to get me some coffee, meanwhile she took me, quickly, through several desks (same room) including payment/receipt then she signed it off and apologized for the time taken. All done. 

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, stbkk said:

I did mine a few weeks back at CW in Bangkok, and everything is the same as it always was.

1. The two forms, with a photo on each.

2. The PR book. Blue for the first one, or white for subsequent ones if you have filled up the blue one.

3. The red 'police book' as we all seem to call it.

4. Your money!

 

If I remember correctly I needed to take the tabian baan when I had filled my blue PR book and needed to get a replacement, but never for a regular re-entry visa.

 

Still amused to be fingerprinted each time. And the huge old-fashioned ledgers still in use. Thailand as usual waiting to be dragged into somewhere near the modern world.

 

Hope that helps.

Full address is written on the second details page of the white book.

 

Perhaps some offices take reissue of the PR book as an opportunity to check/get the correct current address in the new white PR book by checking in the Tabien Baan (TB) book.

 

(Reality is of course that the foreigner may well have moved to another address and not changed his/her address details into the appropriate TB book and removed it from the TB book for the previous address.

Seems to me it's also very possible that quite a few foreigners aren't fully conversant with some of these books and especially the purpose/who is responsible to maintain the TB book. Example: it seems that many foreigners believe that the TB book must be maitained by the property owner, which is not true.)

[scorecard]

20 hours ago, scorecard said:

Tabien Baan book is part of Amphur records to know who lives at what house and not much more. Not relevant to immigration processes. 

 

In reality, if your RED police registration book is up to date your full residential address is in this book. 

When you get your PR approval letter you must go, promptly, to an appropriate police station and get a RED Police Registration Book, and your current residential address is written in the RED book. The RED book must be updated every 5 years, very simple mechanical process. 

 

I've come across several PR holders who:

 

- Didn't understand the 5 year update requirement and have never done the 5 year update.

Plus ...

- Changed their address but have never gone to the police station where they received their RED book to inform that police station they have changed their address. In fact it's a fineable offence to not do both actions above*. (I wonder if some folks get the RED book and the Tabien Baan book purpose and requirements confused).

 

But not doing the above updates is not likely to cause your actual PR to be cancelled. 

 

(*My 5 year update was due when I was back in Australia and because of covid I couldn't get back to Thailand. My Thai son went into the CM police admin. centre about 14 days before the due date for the 5 year RED book update and explained the circumstances to the cop who handles this. 

 

The cop was pleasant and said "don't worry; pay the fee now 800Baht, I will write the update into the RED book and give you a receipt. And tell your father to come quickly when he does gets back to CM with a new photo and I'll paste the new photo in and put a police stamp on the corner." Son paid etc.

 

hen I did return we went to th station quickly and when my son and myself walked in the same cop said, with a big smile: "Sawasdee my professor, you come home". New photo stamped in took 2 minutes, all done. No further fees. And he asked how old I was, my son responded '78 next birthday'

 

Cop (very pleasany guy, good English) then spoke to my son more privately in Thai and said 'you should always do the 5 year update however the police realize that when people get old they can sometimes get confused. If that happens and the 5 year update is well past the police don't worry about it. But I know you take care of your dad so please try to keep all these records update and if something unusual happens come and see me, we can find a way to sort it out.)

 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

When you get your PR approval letter you must go, promptly, to an appropriate police station and get a RED Police Registration Book, and your current residential address is written in the RED book. The RED book must be updated every 5 years, very simple mechanical process. 

 

I've come across several PR holders who:

 

- Didn't understand the 5 year update requirement and have never done the 5 year update.

Plus ...

- Changed their address but have never gone to the police station where they received their RED book to inform that police station they have changed their address. In fact it's a fineable offence to not do both actions above*. (I wonder if some folks get the RED book and the Tabien Baan book purpose and requirements confused).

 

But not doing the above updates is not likely to cause your actual PR to be cancelled.

I was fined many years ago for failing to update my address and change my red book from my old police precint to the new one within 30 days.  I think it was only 100 baht but may have gone up since then.  Changing red book address is the same process as for tabien baan.  You have to check out of the first district and then into the new one. In those days the police sent a large package containing the red book and god knows what else to the new police station which somehow took three weeks to go 14 km across Bangkok. It is probably still the same antiquated process with the police but changing address of tabien baan is now highly automated. I did it for my new born son from the hospital district and didn't have to fill in any forms or provide document copies, as in the past. They just scanned the documents they wanted into the computer.

[Michael Hare]

14 hours ago, Arkady said:

I was fined many years ago for failing to update my address and change my red book from my old police precint to the new one within 30 days.  I think it was only 100 baht but may have gone up since then.  Changing red book address is the same process as for tabien baan.  You have to check out of the first district and then into the new one. In those days the police sent a large package containing the red book and god knows what else to the new police station which somehow took three weeks to go 14 km across Bangkok. It is probably still the same antiquated process with the police but changing address of tabien baan is now highly automated. I did it for my new born son from the hospital district and didn't have to fill in any forms or provide document copies, as in the past. They just scanned the documents they wanted into the computer.

Seven years ago, I sold my house and moved to a new house 200 metres further up the road. My new house registration is at this new house. My pink ID card has this new address. I have now been into the police station twice in that time period to get the 5 year extension. I told them about my new address. They didn't seem interested. Still in the same area they said. 

[scorecard]

15 hours ago, Arkady said:

I was fined many years ago for failing to update my address and change my red book from my old police precint to the new one within 30 days.  I think it was only 100 baht but may have gone up since then.  Changing red book address is the same process as for tabien baan.  You have to check out of the first district and then into the new one. In those days the police sent a large package containing the red book and god knows what else to the new police station which somehow took three weeks to go 14 km across Bangkok. It is probably still the same antiquated process with the police but changing address of tabien baan is now highly automated. I did it for my new born son from the hospital district and didn't have to fill in any forms or provide document copies, as in the past. They just scanned the documents they wanted into the computer.

I'm aware of sending the package of Docs to the police station in the new location and I'm also aware that they sometimes make up the package of docs (everything the old police station has in their files, the police clerk lady at Bang Lamung station did this while I was there and I was surprised just how many docs they had in the file on me.), and give it to the PR holder to hand carry to the new police station.

 

This happened in my case because the staff at Bang Lamung weren't aware / couldn't quickly ascertain which police station in Chiang Mai Muang was responsible to take care of PR RED police book etc., records. So they gave the package to me.

 

The lady at Bang LAmung explained this to my Thai son and told him he (we) would need to check at police stations in the city area of CM until we found which station specifically handles this. She emphasised that not every police station takes care of this matter. 

 

We initially went to a large police station not so far from our new house in CM, a little outside the main walled city. The cops at this station (incl. the boss) had nthe Australian embassy and Thai Immigration and told us to go to Immigration near CM airport.

 

We went there, luckily one of the ladies who does exit/re-entry stuff for PR holders quickly realized what the RED book was, she called a police station in the centre of the city (the police administration centre for CM Muang) and they confirmed we should go there. The helpful Imm. lady gave us the phone no, found a map and marked the location and gave my son her mobile no in case we got lost. In fact the map was very clear, we went there, all fixed quickly to 'check-in' to the new police station. They had no hesiation to accept the big sealed envelope with all the docs from Bang Lamung. 

 

 

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

Seven years ago, I sold my house and moved to a new house 200 metres further up the road. My new house registration is at this new house. My pink ID card has this new address. I have now been into the police station twice in that time period to get the 5 year extension. I told them about my new address. They didn't seem interested. Still in the same area they said. 

That's because the Red Book has no meaning at all any more. It was useful before the invention of computers, and somebody forgot to update the law.