Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[skippybangkok]

What was the outcome? Assume things jsut sailed along anyway ?

I assume the second letter was a duplicate/mistake. I got the PR back in May. That original letter was dated February and delivered to my home address.

Kinda Makes sense that you got it in May.

In december / jan / feb /mar they are busy with the interviews and document evaluations for the next round, and probably get some time in May to get around to issuing books for the previous lots. Jul to oct busy with approval process, and back to next cycle again.

Makes sense ?

[sabaijai]

Dates, anyone? Wondering if immigration has announced the application dates for this year.

From what I recall, they announce the application date only a few days in advance and it's always around mid-December.

Where/how do they announce the dates?

[camerata]

My lawyer was the one who told me. I don't know if they actually broadcast it to the public but I remember that any changes in the regulations from year to year are simply pinned up on the noticeboard in Room 301.

[Axel]

I try to get all documents together to start the procedure early December.

Was told last Wednesday, they are 'open' since July, this year.

[JohnWalker]

Hi camerata,

Thanks for the great information.

I plan to apply for PR (under working category), but I want to understand what I have to do to keep it, given that I often need to travel outside Thailand for work.

I understand that I need to:

1. Apply each year for a 1-year endorsement of my Residence Book (1,900 THB)

2. Apply each year for a 1-year re-entry visa in my passport (3,800 THB multiple entry).

3. Present myself at the police station covering the area where I am a resident once every five years for a stamp in my Residence Book.

4. Maintain an address in Thailand.

Are there any other requirements?

If I don't do the above (for example work overseas for longer than 1 year), then my PR will be canceled?

Thanks.

[Kan Win]

[camerata]

I understand that I need to:

1. Apply each year for a 1-year endorsement of my Residence Book (1,900 THB)

2. Apply each year for a 1-year re-entry visa in my passport (3,800 THB multiple entry).

Right. This is the critical part concerning Immigration. If you arrive at Thai Immigration when either of those stamps has expired, you lose your residence. I don't know what happens if you lose your residence book or it is stolen while overseas. It's best to always get the multiple re-entry and get it the same day you get the residence book endorsed so they are in sync.

3. Present myself at the police station covering the area where I am a resident once every five years for a stamp in my Residence Book.

Not the residence book. This is the red Aliens Registration book. If you get a 5-year extension (I think some police stations may still give the 1-year extension), you have to get an extension every 5 years. You also have to inform them of a change of address. The book says you have to inform them of a change of occupation too, but apparently they don't bother about this. If you fail to comply with the Aliens book stuff, you get fined. I don't think you lose your residence status.

4. Maintain an address in Thailand.

More than just maintain an address. You will be on the tabien baan for the place you live. You have to register with Immigration and police if your tabien baan changes, which will require a trip to the district office.

Are there any other requirements?

There are several ways you can have your residence permit revoked, one of which is getting caught in serious criminal activity.

If I don't do the above (for example work overseas for longer than 1 year), then my PR will be canceled?

If you are overseas beyond the expiry of your re-entry visa or residence book endorsement, it'll be cancelled. That's the main thing to worry about.

[JohnWalker]

Thanks camerata, your info is alot of help.

I now don't think I will bother getting a Resident Permit... it is very different to what PR normally means in other countries... for me, it seems more hassle than it is worth.

Thanks anyway.

[younghusband]

Thanks camerata, your info is alot of help.

I now don't think I will bother getting a Resident Permit... it is very different to what PR normally means in other countries... for me, it seems more hassle than it is worth.

Thanks anyway.

As Oscar Wilde said in another context, don't disparage "society". Only those who can't get into it do that.

[grtaylor]

I'm putting together all the documents for an application this December, and have found Camerata's guide, plus the experience of a colleague, and the Kru Yai's office at my school, VERY helpful. It is a mountain of stuff!

I've been told that document 19 on the official list of documents, the Portfolio, is something which is handed in at the interview stage, and not at the application stage. Can anyone confirm whether this is true? I'm hoping to go to Room 301 next week for an initial visit, with the paperwork I have so far, and ask them if everything is ok, but I do want to try to make sure that I have as much as possible correct!

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

G

[camerata]

I've been told that document 19 on the official list of documents, the Portfolio, is something which is handed in at the interview stage, and not at the application stage. Can anyone confirm whether this is true?

I had to hand mine in with the application.

[scorecard]

Regarding the questions about 'losing it'

There are two points which may be worth adding / reinforcing:

1. I've had PR for about 10 years now, I travel in and out of Thailand an average of 6 to 7 times per month, which means that my PR book fills quickly.

1.a. When you take the PR book to Suan Plu for replacement, the process is fairly easy, however it takes 7 to 10 days to get a replacement and you must leave the old PR book plus passport at the Suan Plu office. I've now had to get a replacement book three times. Each time the officers have told me and my secretary that their is a recheck to ensure that you have not established a criminal record in Thailand since the book was last replaced.

2.b. When you submit PR and Passport for the replacement, they check thoroughly to ensure that you have book books stamped every time you have exited and reentered Thailand. Last time they discovered that one stamp was missing when I had returned from a business trip. This caused quite a stit, copious paperwork to get another stamp, plus a fine of 1,000Baht. Now, just after leaving the Immigration desk (both in and out) I stop and double check that all stamps are in order.

2. Anotht point about losing it - Unless the rules have changed, if you are outside of Thailand for up to 364 days in one block period, you are OK. If you are outside of Thailand for one block period of 365 days or more, then your PR is automatically cancelled and their is no appeal process.

Hope this helps.

[FunkyGuru]

camerata,

Brilliant piece of information. I have been struggling to get this information for some time now. Thanks a million.

[CDB]

Hi, I have a few questions:

(1) I submitted my PR application in December last year, and they have been asking for more and more documents until around 3 months ago. Interviews, etc., went fine but they came back at the end and wanted to see further evidence about the financial stability of my company.

Although the company has around 80 employees and plenty of capital it has been making losses and they wanted director's letters to explain the losses.

Anyway the question is: Since my application has been considered for 12 months now and they stopped asking questions, can I assume that I have a very strong likelihood of getting PR, or do a significnat percentage of people make it this far only to be turned down at the end?

(2) It looks like I may leave my company in the next few months -- before the PR comes through. Will this mess up my application completely or if I switch to a new company smoothly will it make little difference? Also if my new job is less than 80 K, will that affect it? Or how about two jobs (both as directors of two new companies) with a total well over 80K?

(3) Is anyone willing to guess (or who knows) when the Dec 2005 applicants will be passed/rejected? Is it reasonable to think it will be April or May 2007?

Thanks

[FarangYaayYaaw]

What if I have a criminal record, then I can never become a PR of Thailand?

I have a friend who got his PR 2 years ago. On his FBI report there was an arrest when he was 16 for marijuana posession. He was aquitted - but the arrest still showed up. His arrest was 17 years ago.

This was almost a show stopper for him, but his lawyer [said he] was able to pay 80,000 baht in bribes to the correct people to get around this.

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[Ghost]

Camerata:

Very helpful detailed information here. Thanks much for compiling and posting it!

One question: your posts are from the perspective of an expat businessman. What about a university professor married to a Thai citizen? I'm a full-time faculty member at Assumption U. (ABAC), teaching law, history and English. Given the respect (usually) accorded to ajaan in Thailand, will teaching Thai university students be viewed as a "contribution to society"?

Ghost

[camerata]

Anyway the question is: Since my application has been considered for 12 months now and they stopped asking questions, can I assume that I have a very strong likelihood of getting PR, or do a significnat percentage of people make it this far only to be turned down at the end?

I don't think anyone knows this for sure, but the fact that they kept asking you for more information showed they still thought you were a good candidate at that point.

(2) It looks like I may leave my company in the next few months -- before the PR comes through. Will this mess up my application completely or if I switch to a new company smoothly will it make little difference? Also if my new job is less than 80 K, will that affect it? Or how about two jobs (both as directors of two new companies) with a total well over 80K?

In my case, they never asked about my job after I was informed my application had been successful. Even if I'd lost my job, it wouldn't have mattered.

(3) Is anyone willing to guess (or who knows) when the Dec 2005 applicants will be passed/rejected? Is it reasonable to think it will be April or May 2007?

Yes. And don't be surprised if the letter you received is dated months before it was sent.

[camerata]

One question: your posts are from the perspective of an expat businessman. What about a university professor married to a Thai citizen? I'm a full-time faculty member at Assumption U. (ABAC), teaching law, history and English. Given the respect (usually) accorded to ajaan in Thailand, will teaching Thai university students be viewed as a "contribution to society"?

There's no way to know for sure, but I would think so. And in your case ABAC is a prestigious institution.

[younghusband]

Anyway the question is: Since my application has been considered for 12 months now and they stopped asking questions, can I assume that I have a very strong likelihood of getting PR, or do a significnat percentage of people make it this far only to be turned down at the end?

I don't think anyone knows this for sure, but the fact that they kept asking you for more information showed they still thought you were a good candidate at that point.

(2) It looks like I may leave my company in the next few months -- before the PR comes through. Will this mess up my application completely or if I switch to a new company smoothly will it make little difference? Also if my new job is less than 80 K, will that affect it? Or how about two jobs (both as directors of two new companies) with a total well over 80K?

In my case, they never asked about my job after I was informed my application had been successful. Even if I'd lost my job, it wouldn't have mattered.

(3) Is anyone willing to guess (or who knows) when the Dec 2005 applicants will be passed/rejected? Is it reasonable to think it will be April or May 2007?

Yes. And don't be surprised if the letter you received is dated months before it was sent.

On (2) there is an issue which you should discuss with your lawyer if you are using one.Your application was made and put together on the assumption you hold a particular position in a particular company.If either changes before your PR comes through,particularly your employer, I am certain that you should inform Immigration accordingly.The bad news is that it is not just a bureaucratic necessity and the whole application may need to be revised or even delayed.I recall this quite well because there was a possibility this would happen to me when I got PR.In the event I remained with the same employer.

My advice would be the same as Camerata's -say nothing on the assumption the application has been processed.But be aware there is a slight risk particularly if you are asked to provide additional information.

Good luck.It's a great feeling to -largely- disappear from the Suan Plu radar screen.

[CDB]

Thanks for all the helpful answers both on and off-line and especially a PM from a TV member who stopped working after his interview and still got PR.

I was pointed to a list today on the Immigration website which gave the names of 131 people who applied in December 2005, as I did, and who have now been provionally given PR pending final approval. My name was NOT on that list, which did alarm me enough into calling Immigration.

The response I got was:

"That is only the first list and your application is still under consideration. The remainder of successful applicants will be announced in January"

I suppose that they asked me some extra questions in October was the reason for not making the first list.

I guess even if I do leave my current firm soon, the work permit will not be handed back before the end of January, allowing me to still be rather hopeful...

Let me draw the attention of members to what I think is a slightly new perspective that hasn't been emphasized in the past discussions. Throughout my application, there has been little doubt that I personally am a good candidate. That is, I paid lots of tax over six years in the same firm, speak and read Thai well, own my condo, have a baby and girlfriend living with me and belong to many respectable and charitable institutions, etc.

The focus of all the extra questions, and I believe the risk to my PR application is all concerned with my company. It has lots of capital, is BOI sponsored and so on, but there has been a lot of scrutiny on its operational losses and many other questions about the company's business. Although I am a director of it, I am only a small shareholder and it's certainly not a small one-man show run by one guy and his Thai wife! Over the past few years the company has brought over half a BILLION baht into the country and has employed hundreds of Thais.

What I find strange is that my personal PR application, paid for and processed by me, not my employer is being judged and affected by Immigration's opinions and feelings toward the company...

I wonder would I have been better off not being a director of the firm, and just a plain employee?

[skippybangkok]

p.s. For the benefit of others, maybe some one should keep track of misc. costs. Including translations / certifications / security checks etc + DHL. recon you would be another 30k bht out of pocket ?

[EdtheTruth]

Strange, strange, strange residency results.

I applied for residency at the end of last year, December 2005. I was following this thread and someone mentioned that a list of applicants who had passed the 'preliminary' approval was posted on the immigration website. I haven't been paying attention to TV for a while, so I kicked myself for not being more on on the ball and I went over to check the list.

I was NOT on it and was seriously bummed. This morning I had my Thai wife call the residency office to see what was up. The officer told her that I HAD PASSED and that my name was on the list. The officer also said that the list was 115 names long, but the list on the website is 131 names long.

All of this is very, very confusing. Is the 131 name list on the website for people who applied in 2004 to get residency in 2005? That's the only thing I can think of. But if that's true, isn't it weird that the officer would be able to tell me over the phone that I had passed when no new list had been posted? Can anybody shed any light on this matter?

[camerata]

What I find strange is that my personal PR application, paid for and processed by me, not my employer is being judged and affected by Immigration's opinions and feelings toward the company...

I wonder would I have been better off not being a director of the firm, and just a plain employee?

I don't think so. Since you will be off the Immigration radar completely after getting PR, they need to know that you are financially solid now. The only real information they have is your employment over the past three years. If the company is making losses, it may be about to go belly-up, so they need to be sure that isn't the case. They wouldn't want to give you PR if you look like you'll be unemployed next year. That's my guess, anyway. If your current job doesn't look absolutely solid, how else can they feel confident you won't have problems in the future?

[CDB]

Hi Edthetruth and all,

Well, it appears that there are TWO lists of successful candidates from 2005 so far. One list has 115 names, the other list has 131 names. If I recall correctly, one list was put up before the other.

Seems like they are round 1 and round 2 of approvals. My name was not on either list, but I was told that my application is still under consideration and I will know in January when they publish the final list of remaining sucessful candidates.

When I first looked at the Immigration site I saw only one list, and then two days later there was a second one, which I'll swear wasn't there before even though both notices are supposedly several months ago.

CDB

[EdtheTruth]

Hi Edthetruth and all,

Well, it appears that there are TWO lists of successful candidates from 2005 so far. One list has 115 names, the other list has 131 names. If I recall correctly, one list was put up before the other.

Seems like they are round 1 and round 2 of approvals. My name was not on either list, but I was told that my application is still under consideration and I will know in January when they publish the final list of remaining sucessful candidates.

When I first looked at the Immigration site I saw only one list, and then two days later there was a second one, which I'll swear wasn't there before even though both notices are supposedly several months ago.

CDB

CDB:

Thanks for the info. Right now, it looks like there is only one list up there. Why use two separate lists? I guess I should be happy that I'm supposed to be on one of them, but I'll believe it when I see it.

-EdtheTruth

[grtaylor]

First visit to Immigration this morning, with my as yet slightly incomplete set of application papers (still awaiting some translations).

Absolutely no problem. They accepted everything, including my application fee, and gave me a list of things still to be done. Three complete sets of fingerprints taken, and a rubber stamp in my passport, saying "Application of Resident Status is under the condsideration of the Immigration Commission and extention of stay is permitted until xx/yy/zzzz"

All very polite and business-like.

Phew.

G

[grtaylor]

Extras needed/Faults found:

1 Need a letter from the Embassy certifying my "status" in Thailand (as far as I can tell, the same as the driving licence letter) - to be translated, and then certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

2 The Police Report, which I'd had certified at the British Embassy, and then translated, ALSO needs to be certified at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Last day for applications is 29th December.

G

[rlaurence]

I know I do not need all this yet, though eventually do. I am going to Thailand next year to marry my Thai girlfriend and to stay with her and work there. I haven't got any criminal record either in Holland (where I originally come from) and the UK where I have lived since 1981.

I have the disclosure Scotland and one from Holland, both recent. They were for working as a volunteer with vulnerable people, like children, and other vulnerable people. Both state there is nothing to stop me from doing so as my record is clean in both countries. Is this the criminal record background check or is there more needed.

[grtaylor]

Its very difficult to answer that. I have just presented, with my PR application, the standard Police Report (given under the terms of the UK Data Protection Act 1998) from the local Police and from the Police National Computer, certified at the British Embassy, and awaiting certification at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. However, this is not based on fingerprint records, only on copies of my passport and birth certificate, and some people are telling me this won't be good enough. So far, nobody has queried it. If it isn't acceptable, I have no idea what to do next, as private citizens in the UK are not allowed direct access to the Criminal Records Bureau.

I'm just adopting a jai yen yen, wait and see attitude . . . .

G

I know I do not need all this yet, though eventually do. I am going to Thailand next year to marry my Thai girlfriend and to stay with her and work there. I haven't got any criminal record either in Holland (where I originally come from) and the UK where I have lived since 1981.

I have the disclosure Scotland and one from Holland, both recent. They were for working as a volunteer with vulnerable people, like children, and other vulnerable people. Both state there is nothing to stop me from doing so as my record is clean in both countries. Is this the criminal record background check or is there more needed.

[Mat268]

yes a jai yen yen approach is much needed .... names drop off the lists by the way....... just becuase the Immigration have accepted your application fee does not mean that you are granted PR...... the test and VDO interview... then all fowarded to final stage of consideration........ l have heard of poeple being dropped for not paying one month's income tax so a very jai yen yen is required (but dont get disheartened along the way!)