Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[stbkk]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

Was it your lawyer that informed you about the meeting? I strongly suspect that if you get rid of the lawyer the 50k demand will quietly go away.

I'm not just making a flippant comment. It happened to me.

When I fist considered applying for PR, I read several posters on this forum that said you don't need a lawyer. I didn't believe them so went ahead and hired one. Having now been through the whole process, I can say with out any hesitation that they were right and I was wrong.

At best you will pay money for almost nothing. At worst, they will actually hinder your application, engineer a lot of unexpected extra "charges" and charge you for arranging those charges.

I agree completely with the above. I am a PR (2006 application) who did the whole process without a lawyer, and was never asked for a single Baht.

I have 2 close friends who did the same as me (no lawyer), and were also never asked for a single Baht.

I know 1 other PR who used a lawyer, and was asked for and paid a substantial sum extra.

I also know a current applicant who is using a lawyer, and has already been relieved of a substantal additional sum.

You may have spotted the theme here.

Lawyer (e.g Thai interface to potentially rude foreigner) = $$$.

No lawyer (huge potential for loss of face for having to directly tap up foreigner for extra cash) = NO $$$.

You pays your money,and you pays you money again, it would seem

[jayboy]

I used a lawyer and never on any occasion was asked for a payment.It saved me a considerable amount of time,a commodity it's clear from this thread ( eg the discussion about a pointless id card) others have in abundance.PR can be processed without the aid of a lawyer but some who are busy and can afford it will find it useful to have one - but make sure you have a decent one.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

It's your lawyer that's rotten, matey. Wisen up.

[camerata]

I see we recently hit 2,000 posts and a quarter of a million views since I started this thread in July 2006. When I was putting together my application, there was virtually no up-to-date info on PR available on the forum, although a few members had it. A couple of members I contacted about PR via PM simply couldn't remember the details of what was a fairly long (about 16 months) and complicated process.

The reason I titled the topic "Camerata's Guide..." was that I never imagined it would be pinned and I wanted an easy way to find the thread in the future using the search function.

Looking back over 7 years with PR, I think the main advantage for me is being able to stay in Thailand without tying up 800,000 baht of my funds in a bank account for a visa extension based on retirement. And the main disadvantage of PR for me is that having to be on a tabien baan can be a real headache if you live in rented accommodation. But I guess that isn't an issue for most applicants.

[sas_cars]

I see we recently hit 2,000 posts and a quarter of a million views since I started this thread in July 2006. When I was putting together my application, there was virtually no up-to-date info on PR available on the forum, although a few members had it. A couple of members I contacted about PR via PM simply couldn't remember the details of what was a fairly long (about 16 months) and complicated process.

The reason I titled the topic "Camerata's Guide..." was that I never imagined it would be pinned and I wanted an easy way to find the thread in the future using the search function.

Looking back over 7 years with PR, I think the main advantage for me is being able to stay in Thailand without tying up 800,000 baht of my funds in a bank account for a visa extension based on retirement. And the main disadvantage of PR for me is that having to be on a tabien baan can be a real headache if you live in rented accommodation. But I guess that isn't an issue for most applicants.

You were lucky to be able to submit your PR just the year before all the process became much more time consuming and cumbersome. If you were just a year late and applied in 2006, instead of holding your PR for 7 years, you would be holding it for just a few months. lol.

[RubbaJohnny]

Is there any hope for non taxpayers please?

[camerata]

@sas_cars I was a fool for not applying in the 90s, when the cost was 50K. But, yes, I'm glad I got myself into gear before the long delays started.

[somchaimaidai]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

It's your lawyer that's rotten, matey. Wisen up

So you are suggesting that the immigration officers have no part in this scam?! I suggest it is you who needs to 'wisen up' from your ivory tower.

To the other posters who gave useful feedback about their own experiences I appreciate it and I should be grateful I only got stupid response.

[onthemoon]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

It's your lawyer that's rotten, matey. Wisen up

So you are suggesting that the immigration officers have no part in this scam?! I suggest it is you who needs to 'wisen up' from your ivory tower.

To the other posters who gave useful feedback about their own experiences I appreciate it and I should be grateful I only got stupid response.

I paid nothing whatsoever without receipt, and I do think that the scammer is the lawyer.

[NewlyMintedThai]

The only people who I have ever heard of being hit up for money through this process are the ones who use lawyers. They are pocketing it 100%. Believe what you want.

[jayboy]

The only people who I have ever heard of being hit up for money through this process are the ones who use lawyers. They are pocketing it 100%. Believe what you want.

There is no connection (with the caveat set out in my penultimate sentence).I have several friends who used lawyers in the PR process: none were tapped.

As previously noted it's vital to do proper research if selecting a lawyer. (Clue:if they need to advertise, probably not suitable)

I have to say that in over twenty years of monitoring the PR process quite closely I have never heard of anyone being tapped whether a lawyer was used or not.

I remain highly sceptical even now, retaining my view that the staff at Immigration are doing a first class job, a bit stodgy sometimes but not corrupt.

Whether some naive people are being ripped off by bottom feeding scumbag lawyers is another issue.Quite possible in my opinion.

So there is no misunderstanding I quite agree it's possible to process PR oneself.I know several who have done it.

Edited June 11, 2013 by jayboy

[samran]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

It's your lawyer that's rotten, matey. Wisen up

So you are suggesting that the immigration officers have no part in this scam?! I suggest it is you who needs to 'wisen up' from your ivory tower.

To the other posters who gave useful feedback about their own experiences I appreciate it and I should be grateful I only got stupid response.

A bit confused by your response. Just about everyone who posts to this thread has gone through the PR process and quite a few are well into, if not through, the citizenship process. No ivory tower responses here.

My view is that lawyers,unless you are genuinely contsrained with your time (and have a personal EA anyway), are counter productive to this process still requires you to gather documents, which are personal and only obtainable by yourself.

Edited June 11, 2013 by samran

[NewlyMintedThai]

The only people who I have ever heard of being hit up for money through this process are the ones who use lawyers. They are pocketing it 100%. Believe what you want.

There is no connection (with the caveat set out in my penultimate sentence).I have several friends who used lawyers in the PR process: none were tapped.

As previously noted it's vital to do proper research if selecting a lawyer. (Clue:if they need to advertise, probably not suitable)

I have to say that in over twenty years of monitoring the PR process quite closely I have never heard of anyone being tapped whether a lawyer was used or not.

I remain highly sceptical even now, retaining my view that the staff at Immigration are doing a first class job, a bit stodgy sometimes but not corrupt.

Whether some naive people are being ripped off by bottom feeding scumbag lawyers is another issue.Quite possible in my opinion.

So there is no misunderstanding I quite agree it's possible to process PR oneself.I know several who have done it.

I didn't mean to imply that using a lawyer would always result in demands for pay-offs.

What I meant was that every time I have heard if someone being solicited like this, it is always by a lawyer supposedly on behalf of some corrupt immigration official.

They're pocketing it themselves, as confirmed by a number of lawyer acquaintances.

Do it yourself if you're at all able to. That would be my advice. Or, at the minimum, go with a lawyer whose clients tell you they weren't hit up.

[jayboy]

The only people who I have ever heard of being hit up for money through this process are the ones who use lawyers. They are pocketing it 100%. Believe what you want.

There is no connection (with the caveat set out in my penultimate sentence).I have several friends who used lawyers in the PR process: none were tapped.

As previously noted it's vital to do proper research if selecting a lawyer. (Clue:if they need to advertise, probably not suitable)

I have to say that in over twenty years of monitoring the PR process quite closely I have never heard of anyone being tapped whether a lawyer was used or not.

I remain highly sceptical even now, retaining my view that the staff at Immigration are doing a first class job, a bit stodgy sometimes but not corrupt.

Whether some naive people are being ripped off by bottom feeding scumbag lawyers is another issue.Quite possible in my opinion.

So there is no misunderstanding I quite agree it's possible to process PR oneself.I know several who have done it.

I didn't mean to imply that using a lawyer would always result in demands for pay-offs.

What I meant was that every time I have heard if someone being solicited like this, it is always by a lawyer supposedly on behalf of some corrupt immigration official.

They're pocketing it themselves, as confirmed by a number of lawyer acquaintances.

Do it yourself if you're at all able to. That would be my advice. Or, at the minimum, go with a lawyer whose clients tell you they weren't hit up.

On the subject of lawyers I seem to be at cross purposes even with people like you and Samran who obviously know what they are talking about.

I am talking about a relatively small number of firms with an established reputation.In my case the firm had handled all my company's immigration affairs for over 30 years.

In this kind of case the question of sharp practice is inconceivable.

I did have an EA who did all the document collecting and liasion with the legal firm concerned.

I spent virtually no time at all on the process.For me and other friends in a similar position it made sense to hire a lawyer.

Obviously it's not for everybody but it worked for me.

Probably said too much on this topic but the post suggesting Immigration officials involved in PR were on the take irritated me.

[tamvine]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

I have seen several posts on this issue. I tend to agree with what happened with somchaimaldal and it does happen. There is a clear case of one of my close friends who applied himself without any lawyer.He was called by then head of PR on pretex that his application is ALMOST there but need some help from them to move forward to IM. I also agree with many that staff at PR section is very dedicated and helpful. However their HEAD keeps on changing almost every year. There are always better Lawyers and better Staff/ Head of PR section. It is a matter of who you got to deal with in your case.

Edited June 11, 2013 by tamvine

[Arkady]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

I have seen several posts on this issue. I tend to agree with what happened with somchaimaldal and it does happen. There is a clear case of one of my close friends who applied himself without any lawyer.He was called by then head of PR on pretex that his application is ALMOST there but need some help from them to move forward to IM. I also agree with many that staff at PR section is very dedicated and helpful. However their HEAD keeps on changing almost every year. There are always better Lawyers and better Staff/ Head of PR section. It is a matter of who you got to deal with in your case.

This would not surprise me and it is consistent with the stories in the press about corruption having grown by leaps and bounds in the country. In the old days they disliked applicants coming with lawyers but may welcome this now, as it is easier to deal with intermediaries on such matters. The nice people you meet in the outer office tend to be senior NCOs and junior officers. The highest rank I ever met was a captain but the people that sign documents are usually Lt Col or Cols that you never see - probably too busy on the golf course. I don't think anyone at Immigration has the power to put any application up to the minister to sign. According to the 1979 Immigration Act applications have to be approved by the Immigration Commission which comprises 8 members as follows:

• Under Secretary of Ministry of Foreign Affairs
• Director general , Police Department
• Director General , labor Department
• Director General , public Prosecution Department
• Secretary General , Board of Investment Committee
• Secretary General , National Security Council
• Director , Tourist Organization of Thailand
• Commander of Immigration Division as member and secretary

These are the people who have the power to make recommendations to the minister and when they have given their approval the files will be waiting at the MoI for the minister's signature, not at Immigration. However, Immigration does have its own internal committee that forwards applications to the Immigration Commission for consideration. Then they won't see the files again they have been approved by the minister. If someone at Immigration refers to an approval committee, if is more likely to be the internal Immigration committee, since only the Commander of Immigration, or his alternate, sits on the Immigration Committee which, since it comprises non-police agencies, is more likely to be straightforward.

A few years ago there were stories about lawyers asking for Bt 200k for a special early approval quota (after 4 or 5 years LOL) but it seemed this might have been a scam by the lawyers who had been told to tell their client that he had been approved, as some others who didn't use lawyers seemed to get approved at the same time with no special quota fee.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Arkady

[somchaimaidai]

When I was called to meet the inspector by his subordinate I can state that it was orchestrated and well rehearsed. I am really not sure about the variables involved in getting selected for this meeting (lawyer/ no lawyer etc) and I can quite believe that the lawyer element could be involved for either a) the lawyer is in on the scam or the lawyer provides a 'farang/ thai interface' for the immigration officer/s. (or both)

However one factor that was mentioned by the officer was that my salary (and consequently tax) was very high, so this 50k was only "small money". One thing I am certain of is that although the lawyer could be involved, this whole shennagans was most definately run by the immigration inspector.

Edited June 11, 2013 by somchaimaidai

[samran]

When I was called to meet the inspector by his subordinate I can state that it was orchestrated and well rehearsed. I am really not sure about the variables involved in getting selected for this meeting (lawyer/ no lawyer etc) and I can quite believe that the lawyer element could be involved for either a) the lawyer is in on the scam or the lawyer provides a 'farang/ thai interface' for the immigration officer/s. (or both)

However one factor that was mentioned by the officer was that my salary (and consequently tax) was very high, so this 50k was only "small money". One thing I am certain of is that although the lawyer could be involved, this whole shennagans was most definately run by the immigration inspector.

I understand you find yourself in an uncomfortable situation. But quite simply, they are trying it on. Who initiated it, or who is in cahoots with whom is beside the point.

Enough people get through with none of this stuff to show that under the table payments aren't needed. Sack your lawyer immediately.

Edited June 11, 2013 by samran

[skippybangkok]

Agree w Samran - sack your Lawyer. My secretary did all the paper work for my PR, and laughing said that a "lawyer " was asking her for advice on the app.

I think if you are on a decent salary as stated paying decent tax, there should be no problem, so long as you cross the i's and dot the t's ( they are very meticulous ).

[Arkady]

When I was called to meet the inspector by his subordinate I can state that it was orchestrated and well rehearsed. I am really not sure about the variables involved in getting selected for this meeting (lawyer/ no lawyer etc) and I can quite believe that the lawyer element could be involved for either a) the lawyer is in on the scam or the lawyer provides a 'farang/ thai interface' for the immigration officer/s. (or both)

However one factor that was mentioned by the officer was that my salary (and consequently tax) was very high, so this 50k was only "small money". One thing I am certain of is that although the lawyer could be involved, this whole shennagans was most definately run by the immigration inspector.

I wasn't actually suggesting that your lawyer was complicit in this particular incident. 50k is not much to share with a law firm. With the requests for 200k I referred to the applicant had to take the lawyer's word for it, as there was no meeting with Immigration, and that did suggest that the law firm scammed by themselves without any involvement from Immigration. Using a law firm does create an additional and unnecessary layer which may make applicants more vulnerable to scams. I would advise applicants to use lawyers or agents to help prepare the documentation, if you must, but submit the application yourself and do all the interface with Immigration yourself or let a secretary call them to follow up. People I have known who have got PR on a fast track, even during the big freeze, got it because they had a serious heavy weight go into bat for them at the Interior Minister level. I doubt that any agent or lawyer is able to speed things up for you one iota.

It's hard to know who these guys are and what their game is, but if Immigration is really getting brazen and demanding squeeze openly, the net result can only be another big freeze. Asian applicants make take bribery in their stride but a farang is bound to make a big fuss at some point, if this is a continuing scam. Investigations would follow and no one would want to sign anything again.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Arkady

[samran]

Arkady brings up an excellent point. New ministers can and do stop processes and review decisions if there is suspicion of corruption.

[Arkady]

Arkady brings up an excellent point. New ministers can and do stop processes and review decisions if there is suspicion of corruption.

This happened in a big way when Purachai the Xenophobe (with strong NZ connections), was interior minister under Thaksin (his first IM). Purachai claimed that none of the applicants for PR and citizenship that had reached his desk were properly qualified in his opinion and sent all back to Immigration and Special Branch twice, I believe, for rechecking, accusing them of taking of bribes to let so many scumbag foreigners through, many of whom he suspected of being involved in criminal activities. This was all reported in the press at the time.

The result of this was what? Many applicants were rejected and all the others were delayed up to 3 years. The PR process which, until then, had been quite smooth and fast, sustained permanent damage and has never been the same again, despite a nearly four fold increase in fees. How many Immigration and Special Branch officers were prosecuted or disciplined for bribe taking? None.

The reality was that both processes were virtually squeaky clean at the time and Purachai was simply indulging himself in a racist rampage as a side show to his hugely popular social order campaign and the wholesale slaughter of alleged drug dealers that were making the main headlines at the time. Fortunately he became too popular and was touted by the press as a possible successor to Thaksin which earned him swift retribution and an exit from politics as he had no faction of his own. Whatever corruption is present in these processes today has emerged since and in spite of Purachai's stiffening of the conditions and this seems inevitable in line with the general growth of corruption in the country. After seeing the results of imagined corruption in the system in the past, the concern has to be what would be the effects of genuine corruption found there. Anyway you can be sure that, as before, no cops would be hung out to dry.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Arkady

[tamvine]

Dork, this is interesting. Could you please cite the documents you presented to the amphur including the ones signed by the IM. Others may be interested in trying this. Also, please excuse my ignorance but what is BORA? I had also somewhat assumed that the right to move outside one's district is automatically granted if you have PR but you might need to show your alien book etc to prove this, in the unlikely event that a farang would be challenged. It does raise the issue of what is the point of an alien book.

I might give this a try out of curiosity. Driving licence is accepted for most purposed but not by banks when you want to withdraw cash.

BORA is the Bureau of Registration Administration, the division of DOPA (Department of Provincial Administration) that, as far as I know, sets the procedures that district offices are "supposed" to follow when issuing Identity cards, Tabien Baan etc. Their call centre number is 1548 and the contact details for the specific office handling these ID cards can be found here;

http://www.bora.dopa.go.th/index.php/th/contact-str

The directive (or perhaps amendment?) from the then Interior Minister Kowit is attached here;

IM.pdf

The DOPA procedural manual (refer to page 194 in Thai numerals which is PDF page 198) is here:

Manual.pdf

Some links to other relevant info that I have posted previously, as follows;

http://www.dopabook.com:8085/ebook/view.jsp?Open_Page=yes&id_PageBook=29896&booktype=2

Refer to page 102-103 which I think is the framework for amendments in 2008.

http://www.dopabook.com:8085/ebook/view.jsp?Open_Page=yes&id_PageBook=28209&booktype=2

The details are in pages 81-89 (in Thai numerals) or PDF page numbers 95-103. I think this dates from 2011.

I hope the above is all correct. The original research was done by my wife because I can't read Thai so perhaps when you've had a chance to look at it you can point out any errors or omissions.

Regarding the wording on the back of the card about the holder not leaving their local area without permission, I referred to that as a red herring because in the case of a Permanent Resident, it isn't supposed to be there. The DOPA template for the card shows a different format than the card that I actually received. That is simply because, though they have had several years to prepare, they haven't got around to printing the blank cards for PR's. The person at BORA that co-ordinated with my local office said that once the correct blank cards are printed I could go and have mine replaced. Perhaps by now they have already printed the new ones - I doubt it though. If a few more PR's start requesting the card that hopefully will put pressure on them to do what they were supposed to do a few years ago.

Cheers,

My Thai Staff has been working on above details and finally got to speak to the Director at BORA phone 027917317-8. Per them PR holders are not the intended people to get this id card. Pink card was mainly for people who are Burmese, Laotians and Cambodians and Hill tribe people in norther Thailand. He is willing to speak to me and explain to me why it is not required for PR holders.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Mario2008
typo corrected

[Arkady]

Dork, this is interesting. Could you please cite the documents you presented to the amphur including the ones signed by the IM. Others may be interested in trying this. Also, please excuse my ignorance but what is BORA? I had also somewhat assumed that the right to move outside one's district is automatically granted if you have PR but you might need to show your alien book etc to prove this, in the unlikely event that a farang would be challenged. It does raise the issue of what is the point of an alien book.

I might give this a try out of curiosity. Driving licence is accepted for most purposed but not by banks when you want to withdraw cash.

BORA is the Bureau of Registration Administration, the division of DOPA (Department of Provincial Administration) that, as far as I know, sets the procedures that district offices are "supposed" to follow when issuing Identity cards, Tabien Baan etc. Their call centre number is 1548 and the contact details for the specific office handling these ID cards can be found here;

http://www.bora.dopa.go.th/index.php/th/contact-str

The directive (or perhaps amendment?) from the then Interior Minister Kowit is attached here;

IM.pdf

The DOPA procedural manual (refer to page 194 in Thai numerals which is PDF page 198) is here:

Manual.pdf

Some links to other relevant info that I have posted previously, as follows;

http://www.dopabook.com:8085/ebook/view.jsp?Open_Page=yes&id_PageBook=29896&booktype=2

Refer to page 102-103 which I think is the framework for amendments in 2008.

http://www.dopabook.com:8085/ebook/view.jsp?Open_Page=yes&id_PageBook=28209&booktype=2

The details are in pages 81-89 (in Thai numerals) or PDF page numbers 95-103. I think this dates from 2011.

I hope the above is all correct. The original research was done by my wife because I can't read Thai so perhaps when you've had a chance to look at it you can point out any errors or omissions.

Regarding the wording on the back of the card about the holder not leaving their local area without permission, I referred to that as a red herring because in the case of a Permanent Resident, it isn't supposed to be there. The DOPA template for the card shows a different format than the card that I actually received. That is simply because, though they have had several years to prepare, they haven't got around to printing the blank cards for PR's. The person at BORA that co-ordinated with my local office said that once the correct blank cards are printed I could go and have mine replaced. Perhaps by now they have already printed the new ones - I doubt it though. If a few more PR's start requesting the card that hopefully will put pressure on them to do what they were supposed to do a few years ago.

Cheers,

My Thai Staff has been working on above details and finally got to speak to the Director at BORA phone 027917317-8. Per them PR holders are not the intended people to get this id card. Pink card was mainly for people who are Burmese, Laotians and Cambodians and Hill tribe people in norther Thailand. He is willing to speak to me and explain to me why it is not required for PR holders.

Whatever he may think the intention was, the regulations require legal residents who hold Certificates of Residence and Alien Certificates to have a pink ID card as Group no. 1 and the illegal immigrants with special permission to stay are listed as Group no. 2. If he is right, why don't the regulations omit group no. 1 which was specifically added in the 2008 regulations, pursuant to the 2008 Civil Registration Act? The Burmese, Lao and Khmer labourers get a pink card but it is not the same one, as it has a space for details of work place. The wording on the back specifically mentions that those with PR are entitled to travel outside their district and that wasn't there in the 2004 version which specified a list of ethnic groups that should have the card but this has been narrowed down to Group 2 above.

I think the intention was to cover hill tribe people who have PR as there is or was a mechanism for them to get it in some cases. That would mean that all hill tribe people can be challenged by police for their ID cards. Obviously police also think that alien books are impractical in this day and age. Perhaps the intention was that PR holders of certain ethnicity should have a pink card but that is not what is says in the regulations.

This seems a complete buggers' muddle, if even a director of BORA is spouting nonsense. Why don't officials just read their own regulations and follow them instead of reserving the right to invent stuff for themselves without bothering to read the regulations? This seems to happen time and time again in the district office system where foreigners are involved.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Arkady

[Brew]

What about Social Insurance and Tax ID:

is it necessary to change them to the new ID starting with 8?

[ubonjoe]

You should change every thing to your ID number.

[sas_cars]

So the IM wasn't changed, only the deputy IM was changed. So let's see what happens to the PR applicants.

[Arkady]

So the IM wasn't changed, only the deputy IM was changed. So let's see what happens to the PR applicants.

I have never heard of Deputy IMs getting involved in PR (or citizenship applications), although it could happen, if he minister or his political masters chose to assign this to one of them. The chain of command seems to run up to the permanent secretary and then straight up the IM. The permanent secretary and bureaucrats below him control the process, except in the rare cases the IM wishes to set his own policy. They seem to prefer to dribble applications up to the IM for signature a few at a time, so as not to unduly burden him and to maintain the scarcity value.

It was a bit of a surprise that Charupong didn't get the axe and that Chaturon got Education instead of the Interior. Perhaps Charupong staying on a few months longer will actually allow him to get further down his in tray before the inevitable happens.

[alfalfa19]

I have a question regarding the criminal record check. I have been a very good boy for 23 years now, but before 1990, I have a bit of a checkered past. Nothing heinous , just minor stuff related to a substance abuse problem, and one felony drug possession which has been expunged. I live in the US. Do you think I would have any problems in this department, or are they just interested in the last 10 years or so, as American employers are? Thanks.

[Mario2008]

Drugs is taken very serious and will probably lead to a refusal of your application.

Try to get things expeunged in the US, before you apply.