Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

I understand that the Immigrant Visa (equivalent to a re-entry permit) must be valid at time of entry. If they stamp the visa validity into a passport that is valid less than 6 months longer than the visa (maybe even only up to the same date) the passport should be  fine I' d say, but I suggest to double-check with Chaeng Wattana.

 

If they stamp the validity longer than the passport validity, you will need a new passport for reentry into the kingdom but don't need to transfer the visa. This is what I did once, but honestly I don't remember whether this was Thailand or Cambodia, so I suggest to check with Chaeng Wattana.

 

Note: If you leave the country without an Immigrant Visa or return after it has expired, your PR will be automatically cancelled upon reentry into the kingdom. That's why you need to worry about the validity of the visa more than that of the passport.

 

All good points.  Never happened to me because the Thai re-entry stamps helped fill up my passport fast enough that none ever made the full 10 years.   No logical reason that the passport should not be accepted as valid but Thai regulations and individual officers' on the fly interpretations of them are not always grounded in logic.  There is also no logic to not letting tourists into Thailand, Malaysia etc on a one month transit visa, just because the passport has less than 6 months validity, as long as enough to cover the visa.  That means that Thai 5-year passports, which are already very short-lived, are effectively only 4.5 year passports.    

[onthemoon]

22 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

All good points.  Never happened to me because the Thai re-entry stamps helped fill up my passport fast enough that none ever made the full 10 years.   No logical reason that the passport should not be accepted as valid but Thai regulations and individual officers' on the fly interpretations of them are not always grounded in logic.  There is also no logic to not letting tourists into Thailand, Malaysia etc on a one month transit visa, just because the passport has less than 6 months validity, as long as enough to cover the visa.  That means that Thai 5-year passports, which are already very short-lived, are effectively only 4.5 year passports.    

My passports reached an average age of just over three years, because I also get a lot of full-page visas for other countries. However, the new e-channel helps a lot, as most pages were indeed full with the Thai exit/entry stamps and I don't get those any more.

[roulax]

Hello to all,

I am applying for the PR this year after 7 years working here for a Thai company, and father of 2 thai/foreign kids.

 

Another question related more to the tabian baan than the PR : We (my thai partner and I plus our kids) rent a house. I understand that we shall ask the house owner to give us the tabian baan, and put my partner's name and daughter on it already now (they're both thais) and mine can be put on it after the application for PR is approved. Is that correct?

Actually, shall we keep the tabian baan blue book with us as we live in the house or shall it be the owner?

 

Sorry if my questions are a bit stupid.

 

Thanks for your help

Edited July 24, 2017 by roulax

[Arkady]

31 minutes ago, roulax said:

Hello to all,

I am applying for the PR this year after 7 years working here for a Thai company, and father of 2 thai/foreign kids.

 

Another question related more to the tabian baan than the PR : We (my thai partner and I plus our kids) rent a house. I understand that we shall ask the house owner to give us the tabian baan, and put my partner's name and daughter on it already now (they're both thais) and mine can be put on it after the application for PR is approved. Is that correct?

Actually, shall we keep the tabian baan blue book with us as we live in the house or shall it be the owner?

 

Sorry if my questions are a bit stupid.

 

Thanks for your help

 

It really depends on the owner of the property.  Most Thai landlords are paranoid about putting people on the tabien baan of their house because they erroneously believe that that will give the tenants some ownership or squatter rights.  They are particularly fearful if the property has no one registered as living in it, as one of their tenants could become the 'householder' in the tabien baan, even though only conveys obligations (to report deaths, moves etc) but no rights.     In my case, I lived in an apartment and the owner refused to put my on a tabien baan, so I asked him if I could terminate the rental agreement early in order to move somewhere where I could have a tabien baan, as required by law.   The landlord ultimately relented and helped me out.   Since there were no registered residents in the apartment building at all, he got one of his family to move their tabien baan there and become the householder.  Then I was registered as a resident but I was never allowed to even see or have a copy of the book.  I was forced to go to the district office every few months to get a temporary document printed that confirmed I was on the tabien baan and can be used in place of the traditional photocopied tabien baan.  The whole process took 6 months.  I was relieved to move into my own place after that and get my own tabien baan as householder.  At least my landlord agreed to go that far but I have come across a number of people whose landlords point blank refuse.  Many, who refuse, are probably not declaring the rent to the Revenue Department which increases their paranoia.         

 

If your landlord refuses, your options will be to either buy your own property or get on the tabien baan of a friend.   I don't think it matters whether your wife and child are on the same tabien baan.  After getting PR I went through the citizenship application process and it was never an issue that my wife was on a different tabien baan.  This might be different, if you want to use your status as being married to a Thai to short cut the wait to apply for citizenship and get exemption from the singing.  Come to think of it, if you want to apply for citizenshp, there is no longer any need for you to get PR first, if you have a Thai wife, these days.  In this case, you need to go through the tabien baan rigmarole in advance though because you need a yellow tabien baan to apply for citizenship, if you apply without PR.   See  

 

[roulax]

Thank you very much Arkady for our detailed answer. That is really helpful.

 

Another question: For foreigners living /working here while not being a permanent resident,  is it a must to be registered on a tabiaan baan? Or does it become a must after being a PR?

 

I've been living here for 7 years in Rayong province without being ever registered on a tabiaan baan. My partner and my kids are registered on the family house blue book upcountry but I have never been myself, shall it be blue or yellow book.

 

Many thanks for your help.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, roulax said:

Another question: For foreigners living /working here while not being a permanent resident,  is it a must to be registered on a tabiaan baan? Or does it become a must after being a PR?

 

I've been living here for 7 years in Rayong province without being ever registered on a tabiaan baan. My partner and my kids are registered on the family house blue book upcountry but I have never been myself, shall it be blue or yellow book.

 

There is no requirement to be registered in tabien ban unless you have permanent residency.

You cannot be registered in a blue book. You could get your own yellow tambien ban.

[onthemoon]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no requirement to be registered in tabien ban unless you have permanent residency.

You cannot be registered in a blue book. You could get your own yellow tambien ban.

Just to confirm : I didn't even know I could get a tabien baan before I had PR; I didn't even know the yellow tabien baan existed.

 

[Arkady]

26 minutes ago, roulax said:

Thank you very much Arkady for our detailed answer. That is really helpful.

 

Another question: For foreigners living /working here while not being a permanent resident,  is it a must to be registered on a tabiaan baan? Or does it become a must after being a PR?

 

I've been living here for 7 years in Rayong province without being ever registered on a tabiaan baan. My partner and my kids are registered on the family house blue book upcountry but I have never been myself, shall it be blue or yellow book.

 

Many thanks for your help.

 

Ubonjoe is correct.  There is no obligation on temporary residents to be in a tabien baan but you can get a yellow one for temporary residents, if you want.  Oddly enough there is an obligation on District Officers to register all foreigners staying in their districts on longer term visas in tabien baans, but no obligation on the foreigners to register unless they are permanent residents.  However, as mentioned above you will need to be in a tabien baan if you decide to apply for citizenship right away without bothering with PR.  If you don't live in your own property and don't want to apply for citizenship, it is probably not worth the hassle of dealing with your landlord regarding a tabien baan until you really have to.  The advantages are limited to being able to use it as proof of address for a driving licence and similar.

   

[roulax]

Many thanks to both of you for your clarifications. 

[frankphuket]

just wonder if i missed something: got my blue PR book, then my Red Alien book from the police....but haven't seen any pink id card. What is this about?

 

Just for Info: after leaving Thailand for holidays and coming back for the first time with the PR through immigration it took very long till they found an officer who had any clue what to do. Several times asking: "30 days mai krub?"....yeah sure, that's why it is called PERMANENT residency! well well....

[onthemoon]

13 minutes ago, frankphuket said:

just wonder if i missed something: got my blue PR book, then my Red Alien book from the police....but haven't seen any pink id card. What is this about?

You don't get the pink ID automatically, it is not compulsory (yet). You go to the district office (amphur) where your wife gets her citizen ID. You bring all your documents (passport, alien book, blue book, tabien baan - they even asked me for work permit and drivers licence) and copies all of all. There they will process you like any Thai citizen. When I did it, I was the first in my district, so I put them in touch with the Ministry. 

 

Read all about the pink ID card in this thread: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/590057-thai-non-thai-id-card-for-permanent-residents/

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by onthemoon

[onthemoon]

15 minutes ago, frankphuket said:

Just for Info: after leaving Thailand for holidays and coming back for the first time with the PR through immigration it took very long till they found an officer who had any clue what to do. Several times asking: "30 days mai krub?"....yeah sure, that's why it is called PERMANENT residency! well well....

Welcome back. When I left and returned for the first time after getting PR, there was also some confusion. Until the officer said "Oh, this is your first time" and clicked something. After that, no problem any more. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by onthemoon

[Arkady]

I never had any problems coming back through Immigration with PR.  To give them a heads up, I always put my residence book on top of my passport. I think once I had a new one who couldn't remember what to do but she called the "Phi" who immediately put her right.  

 

The biggest problem I have had is flying overseas from Samui with a Thai passport.  The airline check in staff are only used to dealing with foreigners and didn't give me a TM form and didn't notice the omission. The Immigration officer noticed but didn't have any TM forms.  So he squawked down the walkie talkie for some and they held the plane until one came on an electric cart and I feverishly filled it in.   

[onthemoon]

46 minutes ago, Arkady said:

The biggest problem I have had is flying overseas from Samui with a Thai passport.  The airline check in staff are only used to dealing with foreigners and didn't give me a TM form and didn't notice the omission. The Immigration officer noticed but didn't have any TM forms.  So he squawked down the walkie talkie for some and they held the plane until one came on an electric cart and I feverishly filled it in.   

Wow. With my foreign passport, the check-in staff don't give me a TM form automatically either, but I always ask for it and fill it out while they type in their computer, print the boarding pass, etc.

[frankphuket]

same here...but unfortunately the "Phi" on duty here in Phuket didn't have any clue as well and still ask me if i want 30 days!

and yes i did put my residency book on top of my passport and my Thai is pretty decent too....told my HR next time to immigration give them a hint to have a bit of a training session...it's rather embarrassing....

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

I never had any problems coming back through Immigration with PR.  To give them a heads up, I always put my residence book on top of my passport. I think once I had a new one who couldn't remember what to do but she called the "Phi" who immediately put her right.  

 

The biggest problem I have had is flying overseas from Samui with a Thai passport.  The airline check in staff are only used to dealing with foreigners and didn't give me a TM form and didn't notice the omission. The Immigration officer noticed but didn't have any TM forms.  So he squawked down the walkie talkie for some and they held the plane until one came on an electric cart and I feverishly filled it in.   

 

[Michael Hare]

3 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Wow. With my foreign passport, the check-in staff don't give me a TM form automatically either, but I always ask for it and fill it out while they type in their computer, print the boarding pass, etc.

I always collect these TM forms whenever they hand them out on the plane. That way, I have it filled out when I check in. I also ask for another one at the check-in counter. Saves writing there. I found this out the hard way at a Thai-Lao land crossing when I didn't have one and asked for it. Bustled into a room and questioned. First time they had ever seen a PM before. 

[Arkady]

11 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Wow. With my foreign passport, the check-in staff don't give me a TM form automatically either, but I always ask for it and fill it out while they type in their computer, print the boarding pass, etc.

 

It seems that Prayut has got himself involved in a review of the continued use TM forms.  Let's hope they decide to scrap them.  They predate computers and scanners and are of little use in this day and age.  Using the electronic gates, my wife and I have occasionally forgotten to throw them in the basket and it doesn't seem to have made any difference to anyone.  They already have all our information online and get flight numbers from the boarding pass bar code or keyed in manually.  They might be more justifiable for tourists but the only information they get that is not in the scan made of the passport or its electronic details is the tourist's initial address in Thailand which seems of limited value for the cost and hassle of the forms.        

[onthemoon]

10 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

It seems that Prayut has got himself involved in a review of the continued use TM forms.  Let's hope they decide to scrap them.  They predate computers and scanners and are of little use in this day and age.  Using the electronic gates, my wife and I have occasionally forgotten to throw them in the basket and it doesn't seem to have made any difference to anyone.  They already have all our information online and get flight numbers from the boarding pass bar code or keyed in manually.  They might be more justifiable for tourists but the only information they get that is not in the scan made of the passport or its electronic details is the tourist's initial address in Thailand which seems of limited value for the cost and hassle of the forms.        

I am glad this is being looked at - I hadn't heard that yet. I agree with your assessment, and the tourist will be registered by the hotel on the first night anyway. And if he decides to disappear and not check in at any hotel, he can still fill in whatever he wants in the card, so it has no meaning.

 

Malaysia doesn't use the forms any more. 

[beeper]

I applied for PR at the end of 2015. Anybody has any info on the progress? Last time I checked earlier this year the lady that managed my application said it it with the ministry.

[beeper]

Has anyone else who applied end of 2015 heard any update? Thanks for sharing

[mortenaa]

On 7/29/2017 at 9:55 PM, beeper said:

I applied for PR at the end of 2015. Anybody has any info on the progress? Last time I checked earlier this year the lady that managed my application said it it with the ministry.

 

Got my PR in Jan/Feb 2017. Applied Dec 2015.

[SteveB2]

On 8/2/2017 at 7:17 AM, beeper said:

Has anyone else who applied end of 2015 heard any update? Thanks for sharing

I applied for my own PR with an estimated 75 other successful applicants during the end 2015 - The PR was finally issued in 'Rocket Speed' earlier this year 2017 along with many others who were successful at that time.

 

It appeared to me that the CW PR team, process everyone altogether as a single group during each step of the process, throughout 2016 and early 2017.

 

Plainly you were not in the group to be processed at that time even though (I assume) your application was accepted?

 

It is not unusual at all for a typical application to take 5 years. There will be a reason why yours is taking a long time. PM me for a chat.  

[beeper]

Thanks everyone for their replies. Not sure why mine has not been decided. Anybody else's in same situation ?

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, beeper said:

Thanks everyone for their replies. Not sure why mine has not been decided. Anybody else's in same situation ?

I suggest you go to Chaeng Wattana and check on your application's status. Have you heard from them or done anything since you applied?

[Bangel72]

Has anyone 'PRs' had the misfortune to lose their passport whilst out of the country?

Curious as to how this was dealt with coming back into the country perhaps on a new passport or an emergency one?

I know on things like work visa's if passport lost they will often come back in on a tourist visa and then jump through hoops to get their old visa transferred to new passport but I do not think this would be relevant for a PR. 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Bangel72 said:

Has anyone 'PRs' had the misfortune to lose their passport whilst out of the country?

Curious as to how this was dealt with coming back into the country perhaps on a new passport or an emergency one?

I know on things like work visa's if passport lost they will often come back in on a tourist visa and then jump through hoops to get their old visa transferred to new passport but I do not think this would be relevant for a PR. 

 

Never suffered this misfortune as a PR. It would be worse if you also lost your residence book at the same time but if you still have that, at least you still have evidence of your PR status and re-entry permit.  It is probably a good idea to make copies and scans of the relevant documents and stamps and keep them in places like cloud or your email server when you can still get access to them, even if everything is lost or stolen.

 

[onthemoon]

21 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

Has anyone 'PRs' had the misfortune to lose their passport whilst out of the country?

Curious as to how this was dealt with coming back into the country perhaps on a new passport or an emergency one?

I know on things like work visa's if passport lost they will often come back in on a tourist visa and then jump through hoops to get their old visa transferred to new passport but I do not think this would be relevant for a PR. 

I once lost my passport while being abroad. I had to get a fax from my company, confirming that I am employed, and then get a non-B at a Thai embassy. I also had to show them the police report about the lost passport. This way, my work permit was not lost and all was easy.

 

If losing the passport while having PR, maybe we should ask Chaeng Wattana now (in advance) what to do in that case. I will do that next time I have to renew the yearly re-entry permit (sorry, I mean endorsement and Non-Quota Immigrant Visa). 

[tamvine]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

I once lost my passport while being abroad. I had to get a fax from my company, confirming that I am employed, and then get a non-B at a Thai embassy. I also had to show them the police report about the lost passport. This way, my work permit was not lost and all was easy.

 

If losing the passport while having PR, maybe we should ask Chaeng Wattana now (in advance) what to do in that case. I will do that next time I have to renew the yearly re-entry permit (sorry, I mean endorsement and Non-Quota Immigrant Visa). 

It might be a good idea to have understand the procedures in case PR is lost or stolen while within Thailand or Overseas both. Anyone has any info. in this regards please advice. I live upcountry and Immegration has no idea about it. Would someone help ask CW whenever someone visits there?

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by tamvine

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I once lost my passport while being abroad. I had to get a fax from my company, confirming that I am employed, and then get a non-B at a Thai embassy. I also had to show them the police report about the lost passport. This way, my work permit was not lost and all was easy.

 

If losing the passport while having PR, maybe we should ask Chaeng Wattana now (in advance) what to do in that case. I will do that next time I have to renew the yearly re-entry permit (sorry, I mean endorsement and Non-Quota Immigrant Visa). 

 

For those who lose their lose their Thai passports abroad after obtaining Thai citizenship, the approach of a well known farang academic in Thailand  may be instructive as to what not to do.  The academic lost his Thai passport while overseas and to save himself trouble he simply flew back to Bangkok using his farang passport, expecting to be given a 30 day transit visa, during which time he could get a new Thai passport, fly to a neighboring country and return as a Thai again.   However, he was involved in a long running dispute with a well connected Thai academic involving a criminal defamation charges and Lord knows what.  The Thai academic, probably unaware that his adversary had become Thai, had managed to get his police pals to file a blacklist order with Immigration.  So on his return to Swampy and presentation of his farang passport, the farang academic found himself denied entry and placed loosely under arrest airside at Swampy for several days while he convinced Immigration that he was actually a Thai citizen who could not be denied entry  - not sure why that took so long, unless he also lost his ID card and his Thai passport file on the Immigration computer was somehow made inaccessible.  (Immigration once demonstrated to me how they could input an ID card into their system and download scans of the passport and ID card within seconds.)      

 

The correct approach would be to obtain an emergency Thai passport at a Thai embassy or consulate. Although that might involve some inconvenience, it is the only way that most Thais would be able to get home.    Entering Thailand on a foreign passport could be used as grounds for revocation of Thai nationality under the Nationality Act - taking excessive interest in former nationality or something like that.  A British Thai, who had Thai nationality through birth in Thailand, did the same thing in 2004 and got his Thai nationality revoked, as announced in the Royal Gazette at the time, although it is quite possible he was just visiting Thailand and had not interest in applying for a Thai passport or keeping up his Thai nationality.    

[regedit]

Re the re-entry permit/endorsement, is the maximum duration 1 year ?

 

I now get a 2 year multi-entry on a NON-RE visa so assume that once I get the PR this NON-RE cannot be used anymore ?