Thai People Don't Want Us :(

[simon43]

This is copied from an email sent to Stickman, and published in his weekly column:

'........ I just read a report by Gallup International Association’s 2005 Voice Of The People survey, which surveyed which countries were the most receptive to immigrants. Canada ranked #4 (yes, I am Canadian), with 74% of Canadians considering immigration to be a good thing for the community (new blood: new ideas, new energetic workers, etc.). Turkey was the worst, with 87% of the population saying that immigration is no good. Guess who came in second last? That’s right, Thailand, with 82% of the population saying that immigration is not good for the community.....'

So, 82% of the Thai people who were questioned apparently said that immigration is not good for Thailand.

I don't know what sort of people in Thailand were interviewed by Gallup, (I couldn't track down the survey on their website).

But do you think that their survey has given a true representation of the feelings of Thai people about immigration? And if so, why do you think they are so anti-immigration? Has Thai nationalism gone too far??

Simon

PS - Just found a link to comments/explantion of this survey.

http://www.rmh.ru/en/news/res_results/66.html

Edited July 3, 2006 by simon43

[Boon Mee]

They might not like Canadians but they sure do appreciate us Yanks!

[alexth]

Turkey??? They are everywhere...Romania, Germany, France, UK, US, Italy, Spain...almost everywhere. How could they have such a point of view. It's like a mouse that's blaming cheese consumption

[Plus]

There are two distinct classes of immigrants here - farangs and Burmese/Cambodians. The survey didn't specify which immigrants Thais hate.

[Pink Mist]

There are two distinct classes of immigrants here - farangs and Burmese/Cambodians. The survey didn't specify which immigrants Thais hate.

where did hate come into it?

[Soundguy]

Thailand, with 82% of the population saying that immigration is not good for the community.....'

So, 82% of the Thai people who were questioned apparently said that immigration is not good for Thailand.

Here here! PLUS..

It seems when a Thai hears immigration they think of uneducated Burmese, Laotians, Vietnamese and Cambodians.

I found this article on Migration News:

Thailand has been grappling with an influx of migrants since its economy began to boom in the early 1990s, and today has an estimated two million migrants, most from Burma, Cambodia and Laos. Thai migrant policy allows employers to pay a fee and register the migrants they are employing, which defers their removal for a year or two (there are an additional 143,000 expatriates, mostly Japanese and other nationals associated with foreign investment in Thailand).

Edited July 3, 2006 by Soundguy

[PREM-R]

They might not like Canadians but they sure do appreciate us Yanks!

Sombody has to

[Crossy]

So, 82% of the Thai people who were questioned apparently said that immigration is not good for Thailand.

but 100% of farangs know immigration is a bad idea - it's one of the crappiest government departments there is! :)

[thankuverybig]

i think thais think farung=money spending tourist.

[h90]

So, 82% of the Thai people who were questioned apparently said that immigration is not good for Thailand.

but 100% of farangs know immigration is a bad idea - it's one of the crappiest government departments there is! :)

why do you think that any other gouverment department here is better?

[meadish_sweetball]

There are quite a few Thais who are nationalistic and worried about too many outside influences coming into their culture, be it Western or Japanese. And a lot of them are openly negative about people from their neighbouring countries. As for their feelings towards farang, I have heard differing attitudes. If my personal experience is anything to go by, I am certain that 80% of the Thais are NOT negative to farangs. Surely the number is a lot smaller.

thankyouverybug had a very valid point saying that many Thais automatically think of farangs as tourists or here on a temporary stay...

We would need to see the exact questions posed in Thai, and in what context they were asked to be able to interpret the results better.

Thai people often say what they think the asker wants to hear, in order to create a sense of understanding and avoid conflicts... so I suspect the asker may have been a Ministry of Culture type person.

[toptuan]

They might not like Canadians but they sure do appreciate us Yanks!

Yeah, I'm the "Belle of the Ball" wherever I go in Isaan. They all still seem to hate George W., but the connection never spills over to me.

[meadish_sweetball]

Turkey??? They are everywhere...Romania, Germany, France, UK, US, Italy, Spain...almost everywhere. How could they have such a point of view. It's like a mouse that's blaming cheese consumption

I thought the same, that it is kind of ironic that the places that comprise the main sources of immigration to Western Europe are the communities that are the most negative to immigration themselves...

But then again, the survey was obviously conducted among the people who still live in their countries and have not migrated themselves - who knows, you might get a very different answer if you asked the Turks or other Middle Easterners who have already migrated to other countries.

[meadish_sweetball]

They might not like Canadians but they sure do appreciate us Yanks!

Yeah, I'm the "Belle of the Ball" wherever I go in Isaan. They all still seem to hate George W., but the connection never spills over to me.

I think in general, most Thai people who meet farang strangers in person are positive, and use whatever little or much knowledge they have of the person's home country to say flattering things about it. At least my experience as a Swede in Thailand exactly the same, even though most Thais know very little about my country, and often confuse it with Switzerland.

[Heng]

Now, as a Thai, and immigrant myself for that matter (being Thai from abroad), I'd say that western foreigners generally (sure, you'll have exceptions for organized crime, criminals, etc.) don't fall into the immigration is "no good" opinion. These folks generally visit, migrate, live one generation and die. South, East, and South East Asian immigrants however often (not always of course) visit, migrate, bring over even more family members who bring in turn bring over even more family members. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. A lot of folks here are content with the way things are, so they don't feel the need to risk for the "sometimes not" potential. I'm sure many westerners have seen the same thing in their cities back home.

[medz]

Turkey??? They are everywhere...Romania, Germany, France, UK, US, Italy, Spain...almost everywhere. How could they have such a point of view. It's like a mouse that's blaming cheese consumption

Obviously, they´ve asked Turks in Turkey?

[chownah]

I would point out that immigrate and migrate are two different things...I've noticed a couple of posters seem to be confusing the two.

Some birds migrate. Some workers migrate. (Travel around following seasonal work for instance.)

Immigrants immigrate.

[samran]

I also might point out that these surveys are a crock of poo usually.

It is human nature to be suspicous of outsiders, so a survey which takes in the first most natural human reactions are always going to be predominately negative.

The main places that have positive responses are places which are exposed to immigration and migrants, where the responses are predominately positive, given that most of the survey respondants actually know someone who is an immigrant.

Proof of the pudding is in Australia where migrants tend to settle in the cities. A typical survey from Australia would have positive responses in the city, more negative in the country, even though, the country folk would have never have even met a migrant, and thus weren't in the position to really be able to answer.

[meadish_sweetball]

I would point out that immigrate and migrate are two different things...I've noticed a couple of posters seem to be confusing the two.

Some birds migrate. Some workers migrate. (Travel around following seasonal work for instance.)

Immigrants immigrate.

migrate (from Merriam Webster)

intransitive verb : to move from one place to another: as a (1) : to leave one country, region, or place in order to settle in another *pretty lucky to have migrated to this country Victor Boesen*

[ROFL]

They might not like Canadians but they sure do appreciate us Yanks!

Yeah, I'm the "Belle of the Ball" wherever I go in Isaan. They all still seem to hate George W., but the connection never spills over to me.

Yeah they love the Yanks, especially California Yanks like me. I think they think its because they assume Im friends with Brad Pitt because Im "from" LA.

[Scott]

It's an interesting survey with an intriguing outcome. I would like to know a little more about the margin of error and the methodology. In my experience, I have found that most Thai's are very much opposed to immigration--whether Asian or Western. They really don't like some of the neighbors and the rest of us are seen as guests with money--they don't want us buying their land and homes etc. There is a certain animosity if you reside here andhave more than they do.

Nationalism is a big part of the problem. The other side of the immigration coin is that the figures change quickly and rapidly when people are needed. This type of survey isn't particularly useful unless it's updated frequently.

[wilko]

I would point out that immigrate and migrate are two different things...I've noticed a couple of posters seem to be confusing the two.

Some birds migrate. Some workers migrate. (Travel around following seasonal work for instance.)

Immigrants immigrate.

migrate (from Merriam Webster)

intransitive verb : to move from one place to another: as a (1) : to leave one country, region, or place in order to settle in another *pretty lucky to have migrated to this country Victor Boesen*

so what about EMIGRATION?

I'm an Émigré....

[gabe]

On the subject of immigration.

I think Thailand is going to learn some hard lessons.

I am a U.S. citizen btw.

[soic]

I'm a Yank and I have a home in the Isaan. I've noticed that the George W. opinions seem to generated by the French, German, Brit and other farangs; of the Thais I know, most have just parroted others. On the very few occassions that I've heard someone say something negative, I asked why? and I got "I don't know! That is what I hear!" I have come to the conclusion that just about all of the Thais I've met and talked to couldn't care less about George W. or any other farang leader. Politics are politics and my thai family and friends don't give a rats a$$ about them. When I'm at home, we talk about us and our plans.

[Stephen Cleary]

Firstly, as mentioned before, the survey is flawed as it fails to differentiate between Westerners and foreigners from the likes of Laos, Cambodia and Burma.

Laotians aren't too bad in the eyes of the local Thais, but as for the Cambodians and especially the Burmese they are the bottom of the pile. It is sad really.

Anyway, i'd like to ask, as for the 82% of Thais who are anti-immigrants (probably the Burmese and Cambodians!) how many of the interviewees in this survey come from an immigrant family themselves? ie.....Thai-Chinese! If they did this survey in Bangkok, then you can be rest assured that at least half the interviewees are descendants of recent Chinese origin.

Reminds me of Mr Thaksin himself and his anti-immigration laws/regulations. He seems to forget that his grandparents came to the country as immigrants to the demise of the local Thais (at that time anyway).

That is the question which can be asked anywhere in the world, and not just Thailand.

"If you yourself are a descendant of an immigrant family, is it fair to hold anti-immigration views against others who wish to immigrate too?"

[NovaBlue05]

They might not like Canadians but they sure do appreciate us Yanks!

Yeah, I'm the "Belle of the Ball" wherever I go in Isaan. They all still seem to hate George W., but the connection never spills over to me.

Yeah...when we visited my wifes village, the people treated me like a celebrity. I doubt they even knew what a "George W" was though

[t.s]

Thailand, with 82% of the population saying that immigration is not good for the community.....'

So, 82% of the Thai people who were questioned apparently said that immigration is not good for Thailand.

Here here! PLUS..

It seems when a Thai hears immigration they think of uneducated Burmese, Laotians, Vietnamese and Cambodians.

I found this article on Migration News:

Thailand has been grappling with an influx of migrants since its economy began to boom in the early 1990s, and today has an estimated two million migrants, most from Burma, Cambodia and Laos. Thai migrant policy allows employers to pay a fee and register the migrants they are employing, which defers their removal for a year or two (there are an additional 143,000 expatriates, mostly Japanese and other nationals associated with foreign investment in Thailand).

But thai employers sure love their slave labour. ever witness the treatment of a Burmese labourer at the hands of his Thai massa ... er "employer"?

Edited July 4, 2006 by t.s

[thankuverybig]

yes,spend some time in a border town in thailand & you realise that most burmese in thailand have no rights at all,& little chance of progessing from where they are.what lucky buggers us farung are.maybe the burmese have never been forgiven over ayuttaya.

[t.s]

yes,spend some time in a border town in thailand & you realise that most burmese in thailand have no rights at all,& little chance of progessing from where they are.what lucky buggers us farung are.maybe the burmese have never been forgiven over ayuttaya.

or their poverty.

in thailands heirarchical society it is nice for even the lowest to have someone to look down on.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Immigration in Thailand is a tough one to get a handle around. I guess being from the States we take it for granted that Immigration is a good thing, and it is part of the reason for both our power, and some of our failings, but at the end of the day it's still a good thing.

But then again there is no such thing as a American Race. There is a Thai race, distinctions can be drawn togther and attached to the blood and long history of Thai pepole as a race, and as a culture. But America is built off Immigration and the indigienous population of our lands were just killed off and absorbed.

I tend to think that if your nation has it's own race, then you have the right to place any limitations or exclusions on immigration that you feel is best for the majority of your pepole.

Take the UAE for exsample, You will never get a passport from them. And you can't even marry one of their women, it is actualy against the law for her, and if she married you anyway in a different nation, she would loose her citizenship and become nationless. Thats their right, no constitution like the US to protect their rights so thats what happens.

I Think in Thailand's case They should ban immigration from pepole that have nothing to bring to the table other than being a whore or a slave. Sure it's nice to have a bunch of slave labor bodies in place to build all your fancy appartment buildings and such, but for just a lil bit more money you can hire Thai pepole who need the jobs. It's not like in America where you get a Mexican laborer for $30 or $40 a day with no benifits, but a American would cost $15-20 per hr with benifits and can sue for injury! I think, at worst, the cost for Thai over Burmese may be about 25-35% but I am no expert.

And obliviously If someone has something to bring to the table, a clean criminal record, and makes a commitment to build their lives in Thailand , then I think the Govt should bend over backwards for them.

Edited July 4, 2006 by Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t