Anger mounts as Gaza toll rises

[Morch]

 

 

 

These Israeli actions are a disgrace to the human race. And those that support these actions are also a disgrace. For such a "developed country" they sure do act like a pack of backward pack animals. All prayers to the deceased in these attacks and to the oppressed Palestinians.

..better be a 'disgrace' than dead.

Indeed. It is also very revealing how sundry one issue activists are frothing at the mouth with carefully choreographed outrage yet were completely absent as 200,000 were killed in Syria, tens of thousands were murdered by jihadis in Nigeria, over a million in North Sudan and ISIS slaughters Christians in Iraq whilst carrying out compulsory FGM on the women there.

But no an apparent stray Israeli shell fired at terrorists using UN facilities as a human shield is far more important in the grand scheme of things.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Civil war vs oppression. Two totally different beasts.

 

 

Interesting. I was under the impression many here (and you as well, unless much mistaken) believed the Syrian crisis to

be instigated and fueled by foreign powers and foreign militants. And just to get this straight, when Assad massacres his

people that's alright because it is, apparently, a domestic issue? Seriously? How is that not "oppression"?
 

Edited August 2, 2014 by Morch

[Morch]

Israel has inflicted a series of disproportionate attacks on a besieged ghetto with way too many victims .
What would happen if the number of deaths were switched?

 

And still no answer as to what would constitute a proportionate military response.

 

If casualty toll would be reversed, some posters here would be quick to explain that it is indeed awful, but really

Israel's fault for all the bad things they did to the Palestinians over the years. Someone would add "som nam na"

to his post. 

[ggold]

 

 

Nothing short of a 200km high curtain which penetrates deep into the earth is going to stop this fighting.

As a person with absolutely NO AGENDA here, I can say this is purely gut wrenching to watch.

I'd like to take leaders in from all sides and force them to negotiate a peaceful solution, at this rate, the future is looking very bleek indeed.

The answers are not clear despite all the knowitall arguments on this forum.

For the most part, I get where you're coming from. This is as bad as it's been in this conflict in a long time. I also think there is a general consensus on BOTH sides that a two state solution will NEVER happen, too late for that, so that leaves the question ... how to solve this at all without endless bloodshed and nobody knows. 

 

 

Maybe time to listen to the silent majority on both sides rather than the loud fanatics

 

A US State Department poll suggests that 78 percent of Palestinians and 74 percent of Israelis believe a peace agreement that leads to both states living side by side as good neighbors is “essential or desirable”

 

http://www.america.gov/st/mena-english/2009/July/200907021105032SAdemahoM0.6612164.html

 

 

 

Do me a favour GO TELL IT TO HAMAS please
 

 

[Morch]

 

 

Nothing short of a 200km high curtain which penetrates deep into the earth is going to stop this fighting.

As a person with absolutely NO AGENDA here, I can say this is purely gut wrenching to watch.

I'd like to take leaders in from all sides and force them to negotiate a peaceful solution, at this rate, the future is looking very bleek indeed.

The answers are not clear despite all the knowitall arguments on this forum.

For the most part, I get where you're coming from. This is as bad as it's been in this conflict in a long time. I also think there is a general consensus on BOTH sides that a two state solution will NEVER happen, too late for that, so that leaves the question ... how to solve this at all without endless bloodshed and nobody knows. 

 

 

Maybe time to listen to the silent majority on both sides rather than the loud fanatics

 

A US State Department poll suggests that 78 percent of Palestinians and 74 percent of Israelis believe a peace agreement that leads to both states living side by side as good neighbors is “essential or desirable”

 

http://www.america.gov/st/mena-english/2009/July/200907021105032SAdemahoM0.6612164.html

 

 

Link does not lead to a specific article but to a directory, at least for me.

 

What silent majority would that be? The coalition in Israel is made of right wing and center parties (the latter indeed silent

these days), the Palestinian side is split in two and did not have a proper elections in quite some time. The last time it did

the results were not supportive of the figured quoted.

[Morch]

 

 

 

 

Excellent letter...a "must read" for anyone who wants to know the conditions under which Palestinians exist in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

 

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/28/gazas-millionaires-and-billionaires-how-hamass-leaders-got-rich-quick/

 

It seems that Hamas are responsible for the poverty!

 

 

What incredible chutzpah... Israel controls all the land, sea, and air routes into Gaza under an illegal blockade stifling all economic growth, and periodically bombs the Gazans into further poverty as collective punishment. Then spins the blame onto the victims.

 

 

And Egypt, keep forgetting Egypt there.

Also keep forgetting Hamas would not accept inspection and controls over materials transferred.

And some memory loss when it comes to the lavish life style of some Hamas leaders abroad, and the way Hamas

leaders in Gaza Strip got rich quite quickly. They are also not beyond sending family members for medical treatment

in Israeli hospitals, but guess that's all for the good cause.
 

[Morch]

 

Anyone who talks about "ethnic cleansing" in relation to the Palestinians is either stupid or a liar. They would be long gone, if Israel wanted it so. Brian Eno turned out some decent music long ago, but he seems to be very ignorant when it comes to the conflict in Gaza. 

 

 

Following this twisted and inhumane logic, there was no ethnic cleansing of the Jews, and no Holocaust, because the world still has a viable number of Jews.  

 

 

Its part of the standard Misinformation Package that Zionist Apologists are trained to regurgitate. 

 

 

No. That's your own faulty logic. By your logic, any warfare situation in which civilians are killed constitutes ethnic cleansing.

May I suggest that numbers do play a part when trying to determine if what is talked about amounts to ethnic cleansing, and

that so far, while the casualty toll on the Palestinian side is heavy, it does not amount to ethnic cleansing.

 

About the same amount of casualties occurred in Syria, in a much shorter time span, just recently. Does this mean there is

an ethnic cleansing going on in Syria? And if so, why is the world silent on this?

 

The Egyptian army put down riots related to the recent coup and killed a total of about 1400 civilians, similar time frame. An

ethnic cleansing as well?

 

Saying that what happens in Gaza, horrible as it is, does not amount to ethnic cleansing is not the same as denying it.
 

[ggold]

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent letter...a "must read" for anyone who wants to know the conditions under which Palestinians exist in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

 

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/28/gazas-millionaires-and-billionaires-how-hamass-leaders-got-rich-quick/

 

It seems that Hamas are responsible for the poverty!

 

 

What incredible chutzpah... Israel controls all the land, sea, and air routes into Gaza under an illegal blockade stifling all economic growth, and periodically bombs the Gazans into further poverty as collective punishment. Then spins the blame onto the victims.

 

 

And Egypt, keep forgetting Egypt there.

Also keep forgetting Hamas would not accept inspection and controls over materials transferred.

And some memory loss when it comes to the lavish life style of some Hamas leaders abroad, and the way Hamas

leaders in Gaza Strip got rich quite quickly. They are also not beyond sending family members for medical treatment

in Israeli hospitals, but guess that's all for the good cause.
 

 

They are also not beyond sending family members for medical treatment
in Israeli hospitals, but guess that's all for the good cause.

 

It seems though that the same treatment in Israeli hospitals is not available to ordinary Palestinians even children!

 

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/08/01/hamas-prevents-3-gazan-children-of-life-saving-treatment-in-israel/

 

Hamas is preventing three Gazan children, who desperately need medicine they could only get in Israel, from leaving the Strip to Israel. The three children, aged 5, 10 and 12, are suffering from systemic arthritis and are all in mortal peril.

[Jingthing]

 

 

 

interesting to know how Times Of Israel really feels

Actually it is from a blog, by one guy.  If he had used a different title and skipped the last sentence, it would have been a really good article that would not have caused controversy.

 

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/yochanan-genocide-permissible.html

 

 

 

what I   don't understand is if what the Germans did to the 'Jewish People' was such an unforgivable crime, how is it when the very same same thing is being done right now the to the Palestinians it's justifiable because Jewish people have the right to exist???!!!

 

 

How is it the same?

And would you then, characterize any armed force in the world which causes civilian casualties as being the same as the

Nazis? Would make quite a long list, and Israel wouldn't even be at the forefront.

 

Those spreading their mental disease of Judeophobia know full well that calling Jews the same as Nazis is a hot button for many or perhaps even most Jews. So they do it, again and again and again, with clear intention. Their charges have no relation at all to any kind of logic. 

[dexterm]

 

 

 

interesting to know how Times Of Israel really feels

Actually it is from a blog, by one guy.  If he had used a different title and skipped the last sentence, it would have been a really good article that would not have caused controversy.

 

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/yochanan-genocide-permissible.html

 

 

 

what I   don't understand is if what the Germans did to the 'Jewish People' was such an unforgivable crime, how is it when the very same same thing is being done right now the to the Palestinians it's justifiable because Jewish people have the right to exist???!!!

 

 

How is it the same?

And would you then, characterize any armed force in the world which causes civilian casualties as being the same as the

Nazis? Would make quite a long list, and Israel wouldn't even be at the forefront.

 

 

I think he is highlighting the general irony of the Jewish people who have been persecuted so much in history and ought to have some empathy, yet still doing similar (not the same) things to Palestinians... Lebensraum in West Bank for Zionist colonists, labelling Palestinians with distinctive ID cards and number plates and discriminatory laws about who they can marry, dehumanizing Palestinians as “collateral damage”  so it doesn’t feel so bad when you kill them.

 

Maybe its the abused child who abuses others syndrome, but I must admit I do find Israel’s over the top behavior difficult to comprehend in the historical context.

 

It just shows that no country or people has a premium on hatred and cruelty. It’s a thin veneer that separates the civilized and uncivilized.

[Jingthing]

You want ironic? I'll give you something REALLY ironic!

 

[attachment=277678:YiddishCowboys2.jpg][attachment=277679:jewish_cowboy_textmedium.png][attachment=277680:Image47.jpg]

Edited August 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[Morch]

 

 

 

 

Actually it is from a blog, by one guy.  If he had used a different title and skipped the last sentence, it would have been a really good article that would not have caused controversy.

 

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/yochanan-genocide-permissible.html

 

 

 

what I   don't understand is if what the Germans did to the 'Jewish People' was such an unforgivable crime, how is it when the very same same thing is being done right now the to the Palestinians it's justifiable because Jewish people have the right to exist???!!!

 

 

How is it the same?

And would you then, characterize any armed force in the world which causes civilian casualties as being the same as the

Nazis? Would make quite a long list, and Israel wouldn't even be at the forefront.

 

 

I think he is highlighting the general irony of the Jewish people who have been persecuted so much in history and ought to have some empathy, yet still doing similar (not the same) things to Palestinians... Lebensraum in West Bank for Zionist colonists, labelling Palestinians with distinctive ID cards and number plates and discriminatory laws about who they can marry, dehumanizing Palestinians as “collateral damage”  so it doesn’t feel so bad when you kill them.

 

Maybe its the abused child who abuses others syndrome, but I must admit I do find Israel’s over the top behavior difficult to comprehend in the historical context.

 

It just shows that no country or people has a premium on hatred and cruelty. It’s a thin veneer that separates the civilized and uncivilized.

 

 

I see.

 

So, Israel handing over all of the Sinai peninsula (which amounts to more land than the West Bank and Gaza combined,

is in line with expansion plans. Pulling out of the Gaza Strip - definitely a land grab. Giving the Palestinians control over

some of the West Bank - land grab and expansion. Perhaps Israel doesn't get the meaning of expansion.

 

Palestinians have distinctive IDs because they are not Israeli citizens. Arab Israelis carry Israeli IDs. Try again. The same

goes for vehicles.

 

The rules you refer to do not limit marriage rights, they limit immigration into Israel of Palestinian spouses of a certain age

group. Not quite the same thing. While I think this is pretty useless as laws go, the underlying interest is a security one, not

racist.

 

Most Israelis even use the term "collateral damage" that often, and when they do it is usually used in the context of material

damage. Sure there are examples to the contrary, but not really as common as it seems to be on English language media.

 

Any other fine similarities for the nonsense comparison?

[dexterm]

Morch,

 

 

Israel eventually gave back the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza because they had to. Their occupation was illegal..by the Geneva Convention and UN Charter you can’t hold onto land conquered in war in the 21^st century, plus another war with Egypt and Gaza occupation was too costly in Israeli lives. Why don’t they do the same in the whole of the West Bank that they occupied in 1967...that’s illegal too.

 

Oh, Morch....what a sneaky use of language...what an incredible act of Israeli generosity to give Palestinians control over a mere portion of the West Bank land they once held 100%. If there weren’t any Israeli colonies in the West Bank before 1967, and now there are, in any man’s language that’s expansion. It’s like a squatter steals your house, and generously allows you to live in a couple of bedrooms while he takes the rest.

 

But it’s early days still, many right wing Israelis talk about annexing the whole of the West Bank for Israeli Lebensraum.

 

Cards issued prior 2005 had one’s ethnicity written on them. But any official even post 2005 can instantly tell if he is looking at the card of a Jew or Arab because the date of birth on the IDs of Jews is given according to the Hebrew calendar. In addition, the ID of an Arab, unlike a Jew, includes the grandfather’s name.

 

West Bank Palestinians have orange cards while Israelis have blue. Does an Israeli settler in the West bank have a P for Palestine on their number plate?

 

You are being totally disingenuous about the marriage rights. As you well know an Israeli Jew is allowed to marry anyone in the world, even a gentile, and bring them to live as a spouse in Israel, but an Israeli Arab cannot...that would upset the ratio of Jews to non Jews. That is the sole racist reason for the law which made the Haaretz editor feel Israel was becoming an apartheid state.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/citizenship-law-makes-israel-an-apartheid-state-1.248635

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.590228

 

When Israeli tanks and jets fire at schools and hospitals, totally illegally under the rules of war, even if there is a Hamas fighter firing a mortar from the front gates, and 15 children are killed, Israel claims it is somehow not responsible yet they pulled the trigger. It’s as though the victims don’t exist, yet the bodies pile up each day. One poster earlier in the thread referred to lefties getting upset just because a few Palestinians had been killed. That’s what I mean by dehumanizing the victims, so when you kill the present astronomical number of civilians in Gaza its as though they are non people and dont count.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by dexterm

[wiki12]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/one-palestinian-child-has-been-killed-by-israel-every-3-days-for-the-past-13-years-2/5389498

[Scott]

Posts removed for a variety of reasons.  

 

Please stay on topic.  

[Ulysses G.]

Israel eventually gave back the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza because they had to.

They had to? You can not have it both ways. You claim that they are "occupying" the West Bank illegally. They have not "had to" relinquish control there and they did not "have to" give back the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza either. No one could make them do so.

The Israelis  traded land for peace. Egypt was wise enough to honor the agreement, but Hamas refused to abide by the deal agreed to by the Palestinian Authority. They are paying for their hatred, violence and duplicity right now. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Naam]

 

Israel eventually gave back the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza because they had to.

They had to? You can not have it both ways. You claim that they are "occupying" the West Bank illegally. They have not "had to" relinquish control there and they did not "have to" give back the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza either. No one could make them do so.

The Israelis  traded land for peace. Egypt was wise enough to honor the agreement, but Hamas refused to abide by the deal agreed to by the Palestinian Authority. They are paying for their hatred, violence and duplicity right now. 

 

one of those who paid:

 

 

[Mosha]

 

Rockets being fired from schools are a lot more than ""suspicion of war activities".

 

 

 

 

 

Can you point out the rocket launcher for me? I sure can't see it.

 

 

Perhaps this Finnish news reporter can find them for you. If they will use an hospital carpark, they'll use anywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu-e5qWXx-k

Edited August 3, 2014 by Mosha

[watutsi]

Most ordinary people , apart from the die hard Israeli supporters, are at a loss as to how a supposed civilized democratic country can overwhelmingly support this slaughter on innocent woman and children.

 

I can no longer have rational conversations with my closest Israeli friends, who are for the most part secular , left wing and used to hate Netanyahu.What is going on?

 

This report which in no way answers that question, but it does say something about the way things have changed in Israel.The term anti Semite is used to too liberally against the people who criticize the Israeli governments actions, but it seems that racist hatred is as common within Israel especially amongst the young, and that obviously includes many conscripted IDF soldiers,  and this can only help to fuel the fire that they see the Palestinians as lesser human beings.

 

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/israeli-racism-gaza-kleinfeld-511

[Ulysses G.]

Most regular people, apart from die hard Israel haters, realize that no country on earth would allow a terrorist group to shoot thousands of rockets at their citizens and do what ever they had to do to stop it. Why should Israel be any different?

[Jay Sata]

And a decent civilised country would never bomb and slaughter innocent civilians in a collective punishment.

[Jay Sata]

Here is what the UK Foreign Secretary has to say in today's UK press...

'GAZA
The Foreign Secretary warns that the crisis engulfing Gaza risks becoming an endless loop of violence, with consequences for civilian suffering that have already appalled the British public.
One of his first trips was for emergency talks in the Middle East as the violence grew. He fears that reprisals against Israel will see more anti-Semitic attacks on Jewish communities in Britain.
But what has struck him most is the widespread public horror at the scale of suffering of the people of Gaza.
Its a broad swathe of British public opinion that feels deeply, deeply disturbed by what it is seeing on its television screens coming out of Gaza, he says.
The British public has a strong sense that the situation of the civilian population in Gaza is simply intolerable and must be addressed and we agree with them.
There must be a humanitarian ceasefire that is without conditions, Mr Hammond says. We have to get the killing to stop.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11008320/Philip-Hammond-describes-his-baptism-of-fire-at-the-Foreign-Office.html

[Ulysses G.]

There must be a humanitarian ceasefire that is without conditions, Mr Hammond says. We have to get the killing to stop.

Hamas has rejected or violated every single cease fire since this started. Don't second guess Netanyahu on how deal with terrorists. 

[churchill]

New Israeli airstrike hits Gaza UN school, kills at least 10 - medics http://rt.com/news/177648-gaza-un-school-missile/

[Jay Sata]

With the lack of power and water we are likely to see some pretty serious health issues with the population of Gaza very shortly.

[up-country_sinclair]

Firing missiles into schools, hospitals and UN buildings.

Cutting off water supplies and electricity.

Murdering women and children.

 

Israel is a rogue state that causes the most instability and threatens world peace with alarming regularity.  Something needs to be done to stop Israel.

[Jingthing]

Firing missiles into schools, hospitals and UN buildings.

Cutting off water supplies and electricity.

Murdering women and children.

 

Israel is a rogue state that causes the most instability and threatens world peace with alarming regularity.  Something needs to be done to stop Israel.

 

In summary ...

 

Israeli Jews -- EVIL MONSTERS

 

Hamas Arabs -- INNOCENT ANGELS

 

All other serious conflicts in the world not involving Jews -- WHAT ME WORRY?!? [attachment=277749:what-me-worry.jpg]

 

Next ... 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jay Sata]

Firing missiles into schools, hospitals and UN buildings.
Cutting off water supplies and electricity.
Murdering women and children.
 
Israel is a rogue state that causes the most instability and threatens world peace with alarming regularity.  Something needs to be done to stop Israel.

Absolutely.

A few of the parrots and ostrich brains seem to think the rest of the world is blind or biased.

Incidently many of the Zionists appear to be blue eyed blondes of western decent not ethnic Jews from the region.

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Rooo
Quote removed as no link to source supplied.

[Jingthing]

...

Incidently many of the Zionists appear to be blue eyed blondes of western decent not ethnic Jews from the region.

...

Oh, no! Jews that don't fit ignorant stereotypes of what Jews are supposed to look like.

[up-country_sinclair]

 

Firing missiles into schools, hospitals and UN buildings.

Cutting off water supplies and electricity.

Murdering women and children.

 

Israel is a rogue state that causes the most instability and threatens world peace with alarming regularity.  Something needs to be done to stop Israel.

 

In summary ...

 

Israeli Jews -- EVIL MONSTERS

 

Hamas Arabs -- INNOCENT ANGELS

 

All other serious conflicts in the world not involving Jews -- WHAT ME WORRY?!? what-me-worry.jpg

 

Next ... 

 

 

What a pathetic misrepresentation of my post.

 

First of all I didn't mention Jews in my post at all. Secondly, I didn't mention Arabs (or Hamas) in my post. 

 

So, not only do you think you have the authority to tell posters which words they can use (and what the meanings of the words are) you also feel you can lie about what words have actually been written by the poster under the guise of a 'summary'.

Edited August 3, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[Jingthing]

The conflict is between the Jewish state of Israel and the radically Judeophobic Islamist Hamas organization of Gaza which is on record in it's dedication to destroy Jewish Israel. It'd absurd to present this conflict as one side having all the blame, which is what was done. and in my own creative way, I feel I communicated that flaw quite well. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Jingthing