Anger mounts as Gaza toll rises

[Ulysses G.]

He did not lie. He IMPLIED. 
  

in my own creative way, I feel I communicated that flaw quite well.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dr_lucas]

Most if not all members here are debating who to blame and who is at fault, who are the victims and who are the aggressors.

(My personal opinions on this are known after the 100+ posts I made on this topic)

Aren't you guys interested in peace?

I don't remember seeing any posts about:

- Constructive suggestions on how to resolve the conflict

- Realistic suggestions on how to stop the bloodshed once and for all

 

I'd really love to read your opinions. I believe many would.

 

 

 

[joepublic]

 

...

Incidently many of the Zionists appear to be blue eyed blondes of western decent not ethnic Jews from the region.

...

Oh, no! Jews that don't fit ignorant stereotypes of what Jews are supposed to look like.

 

 

 

The Zionists are primarily Askenazi Jews of Europe, who had designs on Palestine since the late 1800s.

Their delusion is that a "heavenly estate broker" promised them Palestine, and so they flooded into the area, which, before the settler influx,  was populated with Sephardic Jews, Christians and Muslims who lived there relatively peacefully.

 

The Askenazi settlers then used systematic terror to drive out the locals, and then unilaterally declare a state. This leads to the current conflict, where, they have to keep committing crimes against humanity to hang on to their immoral plunder. The core issue is not the rockets, its the original problem  of pre planned land theft.

 

In summary, the Zionist are European Askenazi, who have zero connection to the Middle East. They use their adopted faith to invoke the "heavenly estate broker'. Its not a Jewish issue, because Sephardic Jews ALREADY lived there in peace. It is a Zinoist issue, it is an Askenazi issue, it is a European issue, for which the Arabs are paying the price

[Jingthing]

Another one that doesn't accept the right of Israel to exist. You can't talk to such people. Israel can't negotiate with such people. 

[up-country_sinclair]

Most if not all members here are debating who to blame and who is at fault, who are the victims and who are the aggressors.

(My personal opinions on this are known after the 100+ posts I made on this topic)

Aren't you guys interested in peace?

I don't remember seeing any posts about:

- Constructive suggestions on how to resolve the conflict

- Realistic suggestions on how to stop the bloodshed once and for all

 

I'd really love to read your opinions. I believe many would.

 

 

 

 

1. Israel ends its illegal blockade of Gaza.  Then, so does Egypt.  The UN then becomes responsible for monitoring what goes in and out of Gaza.

2. Hamas allows a UN agency to safely destroy the tunnels.  The rocket attacks must also stop.

3. Israel stops rationing water, food and medical supplies to Gaza.  The IMF and World Bank make commitments to revitalize the Palestinian economy with infrastructure projects and a sound education and agricultural policy.

4. Fatah forms a unity government with Hamas and assists with the demilitarization of Gaza.

5. Israel ends its occupation of the West Bank and stops once and for all the illegal settlements.  It also forces the illegal settlers to leave immediately.

6. Israel and the unity government negotiate in good faith to return to the pre-1967 borders and the two state solution.

 

The above don't necessarily need to occur in the order I listed.

 

Some of the above was included in Thomas Friedman's recent New York Times article.
 

Edited August 3, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[Jingthing]

So you want permission to post obviously Judeophobic rhetoric without being called out for it?

That is not fair. If posters are going to go there, for example some posters have actually posted explicit Neo-Nazi propaganda about Jewish global control / now we know why Hitler did what he did, they can go there I suppose (though I wish they wouldn't), but that doesn't make them immune from response. So, sorry, you don't get to dictate the rules of discussion. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory and baiting posts and replies have been deleted.  

[joepublic]

So you want permission to post obviously Judeophobic rhetoric without being called out for it?

That is not fair. If posters are going to go there, for example some posters have actually posted explicit Neo-Nazi propaganda about Jewish global control / now we know why Hitler did what he did, they can go there I suppose (though I wish they wouldn't), but that doesn't make them immune from response. So, sorry, you don't get to dictate the rules of discussion. 

 

 

What is the point using these labels - they are meaningless because they have become associated with propaganda.  Respond by all means, but without using these labels.  

 

QUESTION:

I believe that AIPAC controls American foreign policy, through its network of influential and powerful Jewish people. Im sure you will disagree. However, would you feel the need to use antisemite or antijew in your response?

[sirineou]

People ask " how could the German people allow Nazism to happen? Well, I submit in the same way we allow what is happening to the Palestinian people now, to happen.

People, not all , but enough to create the situation we see now in Palestine, exist in every race, nationality or culture, and I am sure exist in my nationality. We have seen it happen in many parts of the world. and rational caring people should opposed it where ever present,  with out fear of being called Anti....... 

What has happened to the Palestinian people is a crime against humanity. and anyone who thinks differently needs to have his/hes moral compass reexamined, or at the very least his/hers reasoning abilities.

History will not look kindly upon this situation.

 

[dr_lucas]

 

So you want permission to post obviously Judeophobic rhetoric without being called out for it?

That is not fair. If posters are going to go there, for example some posters have actually posted explicit Neo-Nazi propaganda about Jewish global control / now we know why Hitler did what he did, they can go there I suppose (though I wish they wouldn't), but that doesn't make them immune from response. So, sorry, you don't get to dictate the rules of discussion. 

 

 

What is the point using these labels - they are meaningless because they have become associated with propaganda.  Respond by all means, but without using these labels.  

 

QUESTION:

I believe that AIPAC controls American foreign policy, through its network of influential and powerful Jewish people. Im sure you will disagree. However, would you feel the need to use antisemite or antijew in your response?

 

 

While AIPAC does not control American foreign policy, it does have some influence on it naturally.

If it was indeed controlling it, Israel would have been 1 more star on the American flag and Israelis would have no need for the long and tedious visa application processes they are going through right now, during which many are being rejected. (Just tiny examples)

[up-country_sinclair]

 

 

So you want permission to post obviously Judeophobic rhetoric without being called out for it?

That is not fair. If posters are going to go there, for example some posters have actually posted explicit Neo-Nazi propaganda about Jewish global control / now we know why Hitler did what he did, they can go there I suppose (though I wish they wouldn't), but that doesn't make them immune from response. So, sorry, you don't get to dictate the rules of discussion. 

 

 

What is the point using these labels - they are meaningless because they have become associated with propaganda.  Respond by all means, but without using these labels.  

 

QUESTION:

I believe that AIPAC controls American foreign policy, through its network of influential and powerful Jewish people. Im sure you will disagree. However, would you feel the need to use antisemite or antijew in your response?

 

 

While AIPAC does not control American foreign policy, it does have some influence on it naturally.

If it was indeed controlling it, Israel would have been 1 more star on the American flag and Israelis would have no need for the long and tedious visa application processes they are going through right now, during which many are being rejected. (Just tiny examples)

 

 

Some influence?

 

AIPAC controls every domestic and international US policy decision that it feels could have any affect whatsoever on Israel.  Just look at the bill that was passed before congress ended it's most recent session.  With AIPAC it's always Israel first.

 

[Jingthing]

Saying AIPAC  is a very powerful lobby and has too much influence on U.S. Israel policy is a reasonable assertion.

Saying the U.S. spends too much money on Israeli military aid is a reasonable assertion. 

Saying AIPAC is a "vipers nest" as has been done on this forum is inflammatory. Borderline.

Saying the Jews have total control and ownership over global media and finance is definitely Judeophobic.

Dude, it's not that hard to have a reasonable discussion to criticize Israel without getting into irrational nastiness against Jews.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[Kalebiran]

Another UN school hit by Israel 10 civilians/children murdered. And the apologists can defend the actions . Now only USA ,Israels lapdog supports them and vetos any investigation into these bombings.Bullys together. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/israel-air-strike-un-school-gaza-rafah

[up-country_sinclair]

Saying AIPAC is a "vipers nest" as has been done on this forum is inflammatory. Borderline.

Saying the Jews have total control and ownership over global media and finance is definitely Judeophobic.

Dude, it's not that hard to have a reasonable discussion to criticize Israel without getting into irrational nastiness against Jews.

 

Dude (   ) , I never posted anything of the kind. 

 

And by the way dude (   ) , it's not that hard to have a reasonable discussion without defaulting to labeling anyone who criticizes Israel an "antisemite" or "Judeophobe" who "hates Jews" and engages in "hate speech".  You ought to try it sometime. 
 

Edited August 3, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[marstons]

 

'Terror tunnels', 'Rockets' 'wipe off map'

Perfectly good reasons for putting a stop to Hamas terrorism. Thanks for pointing them out.

 

No country on earth would allow a terrorist group to fire thousands of rockets at them, tunnel under their border and call for their destruction while targeting civilians on a regular basis. The civilian death toll is mostly on Hamas. 

 

so do you think the 150+ children killed by Israel are Hamas? USA tried to bomb the tunnels in Vietnam and that one failed as well. Isreal is prity much protected by drone system and casualties extremely light. Go for Hamas not women and kids.

[Thorgal]

Another UN school hit by Israel 10 civilians/children murdered. And the apologists can defend the actions . Now only USA ,Israels lapdog supports them and vetos any investigation into these bombings.Bullys together. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/israel-air-strike-un-school-gaza-rafah

Other examples of IDF targets :

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/palestinian-blogger-chips-away-at-israels-image-one-ill-advised-instagram-at-a-time/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1

http://informationwarfareblog.com/idf-sniper-admits-on-instagram-to-murdering-13-gaza-children-disturbing-insight-into-israhell-military-mindset/

I'm speechless...




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[Kalebiran]

Another UN school hit by Israel 10 civilians/children murdered. And the apologists can defend the actions . Now only USA ,Israels lapdog supports them and vetos any investigation into these bombings.Bullys together. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/israel-air-strike-un-school-gaza-rafah

Other examples of IDF targets :

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/palestinian-blogger-chips-away-at-israels-image-one-ill-advised-instagram-at-a-time/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1

http://informationwarfareblog.com/idf-sniper-admits-on-instagram-to-murdering-13-gaza-children-disturbing-insight-into-israhell-military-mindset/

I'm speechless...




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Dont be .... A palestinian life is classified inferior, like a dog by IDF and most politicians in Tel Aviv

[mania]

I cannot remember in recent times feeling so disgusted & angered by what I have been seeing on the news of the casualties in Gaza.  While Israel has always been a hateful thug towards Palestine this is just beyond the beyond.

 

This type of slaughter from a government that likes to cry it has a  right to exist Yet think nothing of extinguishing innocent man,woman or child in its so called self defense<sic>

 

Sadly Palestine has nothing to give so has no powerful friends to come to their aid.  While I hate war I wish Palestine had a friend capable of defending & freeing them.

 

Anger mounts is an appropriate title for this thread. It is hard to believe it is the year 2014

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Again some balance please. The rockets the terror tunnels the Jihadist ideology ...

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[Seastallion]

Again some balance please. The rockets the terror tunnels the Jihadist ideology ...

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Balance? You cry for balance?

Home-made and ineffective rockets vs the best the world has to offer Israel

A sponsored state vs a repressed state.

 

Balance? If you ever want respect from thinking people, you need to show some balance in you're thinking.

[Johpa]

I cannot remember in recent times feeling so disgusted & angered by what I have been seeing on the news

of the casualties in Gaza

While Israel has always been a hateful thug towards Palestine this is just beyond the beyond.

 

This type of slaughter from a government that likes to cry it has a  right to exist

Yet think nothing of extinguishing innocent man,woman or child in its so called

self defense<sic>

 

Sadly Palestine has nothing to give so has no powerful friends to come to their aid.

While I hate war I wish Palestine had a friend capable of defending & freeing them.

 

Anger mounts is an appropriate title for this thread.

It is hard to believe it is the year 2014

 

 

 

 

Stop the rockets you stop the bombings.  The Gazans now have world opinion firmly behind them. This is the moment to bring that goodwill to a crescendo by a gesture of peace.  The tide is with Gaza.  Victory, whatever the hell that might be, is at their fingertips.  They only have to reach out and grasp the olive branch. World opinion will force Israel to accede to just about any demand short of demanding the elimination of Israel.  Yes my anger mounts too, but at the political leadership of both sides. And needless to say, my sadness mounts as well.  I am not optimistic.

[Jingthing]

And people call ME a drama queene.

Hamas doesn't want peace. They want death.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Edited August 3, 2014 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

And people call ME a drama queene.

Hamas doesn't want peace. They want death.

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Hamas want their people's land back. Can you blame them for that?

[Ulysses G.]

 

And people call ME a drama queene.

Hamas doesn't want peace. They want death.

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Hamas want their people's land back. Can you blame them for that?

 

 

Yep. They lost that war 66 years ago and they are still losing them now and getting their children killed in the process. It's time to move on.

[up-country_sinclair]

dr_lucas posed the question below and I made the response below:

 

 

Most if not all members here are debating who to blame and who is at fault, who are the victims and who are the aggressors.

(My personal opinions on this are known after the 100+ posts I made on this topic)

Aren't you guys interested in peace?

I don't remember seeing any posts about:

- Constructive suggestions on how to resolve the conflict

- Realistic suggestions on how to stop the bloodshed once and for all

 

I'd really love to read your opinions. I believe many would.

 

 

 

 

1. Israel ends its illegal blockade of Gaza.  Then, so does Egypt.  The UN then becomes responsible for monitoring what goes in and out of Gaza.

2. Hamas allows a UN agency to safely destroy the tunnels.  The rocket attacks must also stop.

3. Israel stops rationing water, food and medical supplies to Gaza.  The IMF and World Bank make commitments to revitalize the Palestinian economy with infrastructure projects and a sound education and agricultural policy.

4. Fatah forms a unity government with Hamas and assists with the demilitarization of Gaza.

5. Israel ends its occupation of the West Bank and stops once and for all the illegal settlements.  It also forces the illegal settlers to leave immediately.

6. Israel and the unity government negotiate in good faith to return to the pre-1967 borders and the two state solution.

 

The above don't necessarily need to occur in the order I listed.

 

Some of the above was included in Thomas Friedman's recent New York Times article.
 

 

 

I find it extremely interesting that have none of the Israeli apologists have responded to my proposal, despite all of them having posted on this thread after my post. Not a single response. Even dr_lucas who posed the question,  and posted on this thread after my reply, didn't address my response.

 

One could conclude that certain posters are as disinterested in peace as Israel.

[Jingthing]

I think it is pollyana talk ... Strong forces on both sides not interested in peace. Right now is not a special opportunity. It's a huge setback. Trust level is zero.

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[Johpa]

Hamas want their people's land back. Can you blame them for that?

 

I suppose the Tibetans want their land back. There are some Native Americans who would like their land back.  I suspect that there are some Mon down south and Karen up north along the Burmese border who would like their land back.  There are countless displaced groups in the Balkans that would like their land back. There are people who were displaced by the Magyars or displaced by Turkomans who want their land back.  There were once Germans in the Ukraine who might want their land back.  The Kurds would just like a land of their own.  And the Jews now have a land that they call their own and yet everyone would like to see history reversed for the Jews.  As painful as it may seem, it all comes back to that old rock and roll song lyrics "you can't always get what you want". So you either engage in futile acts to reverse history or you move forward in a new direction playing the best hand you have been dealt.  That is the choice.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Johpa

[up-country_sinclair]

So, two more replies on this thread from ardent Israel supporters and no interest at all in addressing the specific points I laid out that could conceivably lead to peace.  And no interest at all in even answering dr_lucas' question with your own proposal for peace.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[dr_lucas]

dr_lucas posed the question below and I made the response below:

 

 

Most if not all members here are debating who to blame and who is at fault, who are the victims and who are the aggressors.

(My personal opinions on this are known after the 100+ posts I made on this topic)

Aren't you guys interested in peace?

I don't remember seeing any posts about:

- Constructive suggestions on how to resolve the conflict

- Realistic suggestions on how to stop the bloodshed once and for all

 

I'd really love to read your opinions. I believe many would.

 

 

 

 

1. Israel ends its illegal blockade of Gaza.  Then, so does Egypt.  The UN then becomes responsible for monitoring what goes in and out of Gaza.

2. Hamas allows a UN agency to safely destroy the tunnels.  The rocket attacks must also stop.

3. Israel stops rationing water, food and medical supplies to Gaza.  The IMF and World Bank make commitments to revitalize the Palestinian economy with infrastructure projects and a sound education and agricultural policy.

4. Fatah forms a unity government with Hamas and assists with the demilitarization of Gaza.

5. Israel ends its occupation of the West Bank and stops once and for all the illegal settlements.  It also forces the illegal settlers to leave immediately.

6. Israel and the unity government negotiate in good faith to return to the pre-1967 borders and the two state solution.

 

The above don't necessarily need to occur in the order I listed.

 

Some of the above was included in Thomas Friedman's recent New York Times article.
 

 

 

I find it extremely interesting that have none of the Israeli apologists have responded to my proposal, despite all of them having posted on this thread after my post. Not a single response. Even dr_lucas who posed the question,  and posted on this thread after my reply, didn't address my response.

 

One could conclude that certain posters are as disinterested in peace as Israel.

 

I have not yet replied to your good post because it's been a busy day and I am just occasionally taking quick looks at this thread.

Rest assured I will respond.

Just as you, I also regret (a lot) to see nobody else is responding to my proposal...

[Thorgal]

Hamas want their people's land back. Can you blame them for that?

 
I suppose the Tibetans want their land back. There are some Native Americans who would like their land back.  I suspect that there are some Mon down south and Karen up north along the Burmese border who would like their land back.  There are countless displaced groups in the Balkans that would like their land back. There are people who were displaced by the Magyars or displaced by Turkomans who want their land back.  There were once Germans in the Ukraine who might want their land back.  The Kurds would just like a land of their own.  And the Jews now have a land that they call their own and yet everyone would like to see history reversed for the Jews.  As painful as it may seem, it all comes back to that old rock and roll song lyrics "you can't always get what you want". So you either engage in futile acts to reverse history or you move forward in a new direction playing the best hand you have been dealt.  That is the choice.

All entnic groups originated in the area's from your list above. Exept for one.

Check out etnicity and history of Israeli people and you will see that they are most of them immigrants under the law of return.

Discrimination to Ethiopian Jews to 'settle' or 'immigrate' to Israel was also refused due to their mainly Christian faith.
'You can't always get what you want'...is also applicable for Jews among Other Jews.




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Edited August 3, 2014 by Thorgal