Retirement Visa - Combination of pension + money in bank account

[WaywardWind]

I have just returned from Chaengwattana today I went there to extend my Retirement Visa using the pension plus balance in the bank method. This would be about the 10th year i have done this so i was not expecting anything different. To cut a long story short they refused to extend my visa and i have 2 weeks to leave the country. Why ? because about 20000 baht of the balance in my bank account had not been there for three months. When i protested and said it had never been like this before i was told the new rule came in last August and it is up to me to know the rules.I'm still in shock but i had began to think it was my fault for not paying more attention to the way the Thais make it up as they go along ,but this thread seems to suggest that this" new rule" is news to a lot of people.I would really like to know if other people using the pension + balance method have been denied because money was not in bank for 3 months.If as immigration say the rule is a year old why isnt everybody already aware of it.I'm still so shocked i don't know if i'm coming or going , literally.

They are wrong.

The relevant portion of the rule (issued 30 June 2014, effective 29 August 2014) says:

2.22 In the case of retirement:

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a nonimmigrant visa (NONIM).

(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totaling no less than

Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.

Perhaps you can hunt down a Thai copy of the order, print it off, take it to Immigration with you, and try again?

I only have the English version, but would be happy to send it on to you if you PM an email address to me.

Update - sorry, I had missed your update about your trip with the lawyer. Very concerning that they are looking right at the plain language of the law and still insisting on the seeding requirement.

Edited September 1, 2014 by WaywardWind

[smedly]

Update : I intended to update this a couple of days ago but i have been stuck in CW for the last 3 days. To recap , after successfully extending my retirement visa over 12 years . the last 8 using the combo method of pension + bank balance , my extension was refused last week based on the fact that the money in my bank had not been there for 3months.My balance was 885000 baht just for interests sake

I hired a lawyer and they were confident it would not be difficult to turn this around as they could find no reason , after examining my papers, why i had been refused. After three Kafkaesque days in immigration my extension is still refused and i must leave the country.

Despite quoting the law at them [police order 777/2551 section 2.22[5]] till we were blue in the face , we kept being told that a rule had been changed LAST YEAR on AUG 16.The fact that 3 different Captains all quoted aug 16 at different times seemed a bit odd to me , who remembers the date a year later ?.As i said before 3 days of this and they would not budge.They all seemed to be reading from the same script, even the sympathetic ones who seemed to want to help but couldn't.

It is beyond me how this is even possible, and no one on this forum knows anything about this, and only 'Tallguyjohninbkk' who had a conversation at CW the day previous to my trip to CW has mentioned anything about it.

No doubt there are people successfully extending their visas without seasoned money in different immigration offices around the country, this after all is the fustercluck lottery of Thai Immigration, but for those that have to extend in the next few months at CW i would seriously start making inquiries.

Has anyone heard anything about this "changed rule". Based on the current police order it seems to be "breaking the law" but we aliens just seem to have to suck it up until we have something along the lines of an Ombudsman to represent our immigration rights.

I'm going now to get very drunk, and when my hangover has receded i'm off on holiday and will return as a tourist.

There could be very well be a new rule. It may be in form of an internal circular. If you really don't want to leave country try applying at Jomtien, all you need is to state that you live there now.

This might sound a bit weird but it could just be that certain immigration offices are trying to encourage people to use other routes (like an agent) to get the extension by making it a little more awkward going into the office - I'm not going to explain further but most will have an idea what I mean and how this could be advantageous

[bangkokbrian47]

Yesterday, 17th Dec 2014, I just had my 12 month extension of stay based on retirement using the combination method denied at Nakhon Phanom immigration office. This was due to there being insufficient funds in my bank account for 2 weeks in November. I was only short of about 20,000 baht for this 2 week period.

I have used this same method for the past 2 years with no problem but this time I was denied. My pension income falls just short of the required 65,000 baht per month by about 4000 baht, so I have used the combination method for the last 2 years.

I had not read this thread before applying but had checked the latest Police Order dated 29th August 2014 and saw that as long as the total amount exceeded the 800,000 baht using the combination method on the date of filing the application I would be ok. My total amount stood at 840,000 baht based on the exchange they used yesterday.

So today I am going to go back in to immigration with a Thai copy of the above Police order and also a copy of the English translation conducted by Siam Translators for Thai Visa and ask them, very nicely, if the translation is inaccurate as it states that the alien "Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date". I will state that I am only trying to help others, who, like me, have come to be been misled by the lack of information on this subject and that I in no way blame the Nakhon Phanom Immigration officials. (bit of crawling there!!)

If they state that the translation is inaccurate then I will inform them that I intend to write to Siam Translators pointing out their "error" and that the immigration office in Nakhon Phanom has stated so. If, however, they state that the translation is indeed accurate, I will ask them why my application has been denied.

if they state that new rules have come in I will ask for a copy of the new rules and inform them that I will write to The Deputy Commissioner, Watcharaphon Prasarnrajakit, Acting Commissioner of the Royal Thai Police, asking him to confirm the new rules as they have not been included in the Police Order 327/2557 dated 29th August 2014.

I don't really expect to get anywhere as TIT, but whatever.

I'll let you know how I get on.

[ubonjoe]

The translation is correct. The problem is that some immigration offices don't go by the official rules.

This is immigration's own translation: no327_2557.pdf

And the original Police Order 327/2557 Thai text

Maybe you can get them to comply with the police order.

[Mario2008]

During the 3 month seasoning period, the money cannot go below 800,000 baht. But indeed, for a combination no seasoning is required.

However, some offices have their own rules and do insist on the money being seasoned in case of a combination.

[bangkokbrian47]

Well, here is the result of my return visit to Nakhon Phanom Immigration - still denied.

I used the strategy I outlined earlier and at first there was complete denial by them that the translation was correct and that they were wrong. But, continuous, gentle pushing and doubts appeared in their minds that something in the rule might be a bit ambiguous. (As far as I was concerned everything was crystal clear with the rule and the translation). So the senior, female immigration officer decided to ring the "big boss" for his ruling. She was on the phone to him for at least 5 minutes.

However, the outcome was still the same - no extension. They had concluded among themselves that they understood why I was concerned that my application had been denied, but it was the fault of the original ruling in the Police Order being somewhat lacking in the detail and that it should have included the additional information that seasoning of the monies in the bank is a requirement even for the combination of income/money in the bank method. (Both you and I know this to be complete b*llocks, but.....)

She thanked me for being courteous in my questioning and for pointing out the "error" in the original Police Order but still refused to give me my rightful 12 month extension. I offered to write to the Chief Commissioner for Immigration in Bangkok stating that Nakhon Phanom Immigration had found a discrepancy in the ruling but she stated that her "big boss" would contact him and get the ruling "corrected" (and pigs might fly!!).

She then offered me a 60 day extension to my present permit to stay, based on visiting my wife in Thailand (at a cost of 1900 baht) after which my monies in the bank would have been seasoned the correct time and I would be able to obtain my extension to stay based on retirement with no problem (another 1900 baht).

I politely declined her kind offer and said that I would see her next Monday with a new application based on marriage to a Thai national where my pension income alone more than adequately covers the financial requirement.

During the whole visit other members of the immigration team stood around listening to everything being said and I did sense a swell of sympathy towards me for my original application being denied, but there was no way that the original decision was going to be reversed (loss of face and all that, and I didn't really expect it to be).

Anyway I left the office with smiles from all the immigration officials with a promise from the senior, female official that she would look after me personally when I return on Monday (a promise or a threat??)

The outcome of all of this is that Nakhon Phanom Immigration require monies in the bank to be seasoned for 3 months for both the 800,000 baht in the bank method (as stated in the rules) and the combination of income and banked monies (the complete opposite of what is stated in the rules). Amen.

[david555]

I think you can explain yourself in a very polite way , so why you just not send this story to that very high officer to point out that ,that officer found a fault in his order , and doing this after your application based on married to a Thai it could not affect you in a bad way , I think for sure the high officer who made the police ruling also does not like lose face and shall sure contact the difficult officer .....success guaranteed !!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Chaengwattana Immigration in Bangkok earlier this year began requiring seasoning of Thai bank deposits when used in the combo method (bank deposits and monthly income) for retirement extensions. They attributed that policy change to a new police order, which no one had seen with that kind of language as of last report.

BTW, the main Immigration office in BKK doesn't have a reputation of making up its own unique rules, unlike some of the outlying local Immigration offices. So I think it's likely the change to requiring seasoning of combo funds there is more than just a single office wildhair... as the prior post above would tend to support.

Edited December 20, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK