Language schools suffering: Thailand

[jacko45k]

Is it really that onerous.

I had to get a work permit and ID and driving licence etc to work in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi authorities were quite strict but it all went smoothly.

It will work itself out, Thais can do things when they apply themselves, just takes a while to get the momentum going.

They will make a profitable business out of it.

There will be a benefit too, those dubious 'students' in the bars, and 'teachers' with a strong brogue may be a thing of the past.

[casualbiker]

"The minimum, taxable monthly salary for most nationalities is 50,000 baht." What about changing these silly draconian laws, and actually adapt the tax to the real salary, and not on one based on race or nationality.

Time to wake up and step in to the 21st century. Give residency and work permit to those married to a Thai national, ease up burocracy for work permits....wishful thinking probably.

Thai laws are made on another planet far from reality, no wonder so many break the law.

So if 50,000 THB monthly is required salary for a work permit, then how do those from the Philippines get work permits when they are paid

half what a native speaker would be earning. I thought for some reason it was 60,000 THB per month but that may have changed.

I don't think a native Thai speaker would be earning more than any other teacher in a school in the west teaching Thai, not sure why

the native speakers here expect so much more, twice or three times what the Thai or other teachers make.

what is it that makes English so special that foreign English teachers get paid so much more?

If you want to live in Thailand, then accept whatever it is that they pay everybody else. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If you're living here because of the money, if you don't like the pay then you can move. If you're living here because you really like

Thailand, then the money shouldn't really matter.

But they should make it easier for all to work and pay tax and let people work for whoever wishes to hire them, just like the Thai enjoy when

they go to countries in the west. How about a green card and a visa that says you can stay because you are not a burden to society?

I think you need some clarification of some issues.

It is the Thai government that sets the rules. The minimum salary to qualify for a work permit is laid out by them, not the demands of the different nationalities. I believe the minimum for Americans, Canadians, Japanese, and some European nationalities it is 60,000, for many European nationalities and some of the richer Asian nationalities it is 50,000. For Philippinos, it is 40,000 (or less). If the shady school refuses to pay a Canadian 60,000 baht per month then they cannot get that Canadian a work permit. This is not the fault of the Canadian. It is the fault of the outdated Thai regulation, and of the school. On the other hand, a native Thai speaking teacher of the Thai language in Canada would not doubt be paid a fair (minimum) wage and would be provided with a legal work permits. Whats all this about geese and ganders?

As for your other points, the demand for Thai teachers in the west is much smaller than for English teachers in Thailand. What makes English so special? Surely you are aware that English is (aside from Mandarin) the most widely spoken language in the world and is the accepted language of business, etcetera, etcetera.. and that Thai is primarily useful only in Thailand (and maybe Laos)?

It is you that needs clarification ... there are NO minimum wage requirements for teachers. Teachers come under a different specific labour act.

[simon43]

The minimum wage for a foreign worker is dependant on the region your from, however for most of Europe, Australia, America etc it's 50,000. I can't believe people have taken jobs for less than this.

Why is it always about the money? As an employee in the UK, I earned 550,000 baht/month salary, rising almost 4,000,000 baht/month when I worked for myself, (yes I have got my number of zeros correct).

If I want to teach in Thailand for 30,000 baht/month, then that's my choice. But please 'streamline' the visa/WP process.

I live in Thailand, but usually teach in Cambodia, Lao PDR and Myanmar, where the process for obtaining a WP is so much easier, (or no WP at all, in the case of Myanmar)

There is much more to life than just money....

Edited August 20, 2014 by simon43

[Mister Fixit]

As for your other points, the demand for Thai teachers in the west is much smaller than for English teachers in Thailand. What makes English so special? Surely you are aware that English is (aside from Mandarin) the most widely spoken language in the world and is the accepted language of business, etcetera, etcetera.. and that Thai is primarily useful only in Thailand (and maybe Laos)?

Well said. That original post you replied to was badly thought out and which is why I refused to quote it again.

I was astonished at the tone - why is English so special?' was said.

Well, for the precise reason you quoted.

That OP has some serious deficits in thinking ability ...

[benj005]

As for your other points, the demand for Thai teachers in the west is much smaller than for English teachers in Thailand. What makes English so special? Surely you are aware that English is (aside from Mandarin) the most widely spoken language in the world and is the accepted language of business, etcetera, etcetera.. and that Thai is primarily useful only in Thailand (and maybe Laos)?

Well said. That original post you replied to was badly thought out and which is why I refused to quote it again.

I was astonished at the tone - why is English so special?' was said.

Well, for the precise reason you quoted.

That OP has some serious deficits in thinking ability ...

Let's not forget anything computer related. For example, programming you need to know English.

English is universal.

[jakobvarming]

In the article in Pattaya Post, I found this:

An allied problem, according to the Immigration Bureau, is that some foreigners trying to live in Thailand do not have sufficient funds for their stay. The current crackdown is designed to weed them out as well. Lack of funds causes some aliens to be a burden on the Thai health service. Research has suggested that nonpaying foreigners may be costing the country 100 million baht a year.

How can foreigners cost anything, when guarantee for payment is required upfront in all hospitals, EVEN if you are on the brink of dying? I was run down on my bike and hurt seriously and the ICU plus the hospital which did the surgery on me both required proof of my insurance before they did ANYTHING!

Mai Koh Chai????

[BKKSnowBird]

Just wait. Proof of insurance will be the next requirement on any permission to stay.

[jakobvarming]

Just wait. Proof of insurance will be the next requirement on any permission to stay.

I do hope so! It's a requirement for Thais to stay in Europe, so we should do the same here.

I just don't get how foreigners can be a burden to the private hospitals in Thailand as the article claims?

[Mister Fixit]

These language 'schools' are a joke. None of them provide any real benefits, they don't care about degrees, standard of English, work permits, type of visa held. If you can breathe, speak English and (in some cases) don't smell of booze when you come in, you have a job. A job where the money hasn't changed in the 10 years I've been here and is a pittance nowadays. 300 baht an hour? I wouldn't (and don't) get out of bed for that

All they want is any white face with a smattering of English to feed the conveyor-belt fodder classes every weekend, where kids are dumped (to mainly play games) so the mum can go shopping.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Mister Fixit

[casualbiker]

In the article in Pattaya Post, I found this:

An allied problem, according to the Immigration Bureau, is that some foreigners trying to live in Thailand do not have sufficient funds for their stay. The current crackdown is designed to weed them out as well. Lack of funds causes some aliens to be a burden on the Thai health service. Research has suggested that nonpaying foreigners may be costing the country 100 million baht a year.

How can foreigners cost anything, when guarantee for payment is required upfront in all hospitals, EVEN if you are on the brink of dying? I was run down on my bike and hurt seriously and the ICU plus the hospital which did the surgery on me both required proof of my insurance before they did ANYTHING!

Mai Koh Chai????

Private hospital or government?

I had a bike accident, was unconscious, broken clavicle. No problems. Just paid on leaving hospital 3 days later. Amazingly it was less than 10,000b.

Saying that BUPA do medical cover for about 2,500b per month. And some debit cards also have emergency medical cover. SCB is one.

[lostinisaan]

Good because these <deleted> language schools try to pay part-time teachers 300 baht an hour. Glad to see them hurting...

there are people in the USA that dont even make that much!

What about all these guys making $ 5 an hour at Mac Donald's and other places?

And those who're doing three jobs to survive? Then those who do have enough money, but are not happy in their country?

And the job-and homeless people...........

[BKKSnowBird]

Who makes $5 an hour in the US? Min. wage is $7 and higher in most states.

[casualbiker]

Who makes $5 an hour in the US? Min. wage is $7 and higher in most states.

And yet some are because certain States change the rules .. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

[Scott]

Let's stay on topic, which isn't about the minimum wage in the US.

[thequietman]

Goodness, you talk a lot of nonsense on here. You were earning 1,000,000 (1 million pounds a year) annually when you worked for yourself !!!!

Then you go on to state that its not always about the money.

You have said before that you are teaching now to supplement your hotel empire !

Soooooo which is it.............. money's not important but you need it for your business empire.............. or................... you work for free !

Money's not important........... pfffffffffffft.

The minimum wage for a foreign worker is dependant on the region your from, however for most of Europe, Australia, America etc it's 50,000. I can't believe people have taken jobs for less than this.

Why is it always about the money? As an employee in the UK, I earned 550,000 baht/month salary, rising almost 4,000,000 baht/month when I worked for myself, (yes I have got my number of zeros correct).

If I want to teach in Thailand for 30,000 baht/month, then that's my choice. But please 'streamline' the visa/WP process.

I live in Thailand, but usually teach in Cambodia, Lao PDR and Myanmar, where the process for obtaining a WP is so much easier, (or no WP at all, in the case of Myanmar)

There is much more to life than just money....

Edited August 20, 2014 by thequietman

[lostinisaan]

I have a bachelor of education and had 7 years of teaching experience before leaving the profession to go back into business. I'm now running both a company here and a company in Australia plus studying for my MBA. There is no way in hell I would ever work for less than 120,000 per month. That is a starting wage for most graduates in other countries and certainly anyone mid career should be asking much more than this. People don't get higher education to earn less than retail assistants in their own country, so I can't understand why people settle for crap money here? The minimum wage for a foreign worker is dependant on the region your from, however for most of Europe, Australia, America etc it's 50,000. I can't believe people have taken jobs for less than this.

I have a bachelor in pedagogy and never made less than 150,000 baht/month back in Europe. When I settled down in Isaan, still having some savings, I fell in love with living in Isaan. The people, the ways things work, and everything dirt cheap....

Then I started teaching making only 25 K back in 2005, as i needed to do something.

Even now, I'm on just 33 K, but it's still enough to feed my family and the tank of my Mitsu. Even now, as everything had gotten pretty much expensive, comparing to 12 years ago, it's still a much more enjoyable life here than working and living somewhere in Europe.

If you can't believe that there're people out there who rather live a less luxury life, let them do so. I couldn't sit outside every day, where I'm from.

To make a long story short. It's not always about the amount of money, you're making. My students give me more than my salary can buy.

Then my Thai family and friends. My home is here in Thailand and money is not all. Money doesn't buy you love, nor friends.-

Edited August 20, 2014 by lostinisaan

[Aree Wongwanlee]

I have a bachelor of education and had 7 years of teaching experience before leaving the profession to go back into business. I'm now running both a company here and a company in Australia plus studying for my MBA. There is no way in hell I would ever work for less than 120,000 per month. That is a starting wage for most graduates in other countries and certainly anyone mid career should be asking much more than this. People don't get higher education to earn less than retail assistants in their own country, so I can't understand why people settle for crap money here? The minimum wage for a foreign worker is dependant on the region your from, however for most of Europe, Australia, America etc it's 50,000. I can't believe people have taken jobs for less than this.

I have a bachelor in pedagogy and never made less than 150,000 baht/month back in Europe. When I settled down in Isaan, still having some savings, I fell in love with living in Isaan. The people, the ways things work, and everything dirt cheap....

Then I started teaching making only 25 K back in 2005, as i needed to do something.

Even now, I'm on just 33 K, but it's still enough to feed my family and the tank of my Mitsu. Even now, as everything had gotten pretty much expensive, comparing to 12 years ago, it's still a much more enjoyable life here than working and living somewhere in Europe.

If you can't believe that there're people out there who rather live a less luxury life, let them do so. I couldn't sit outside every day, where I'm from.

To make a long story short. It's not always about the amount of money, you're making. My students give me more than my salary can buy.

Then my Thai family and friends. My home is here in Thailand and money is not all. Money doesn't buy you love, nor friends.-

As the Thais would put it, I agree with you 1000%.

[jakobvarming]

In the article in Pattaya Post, I found this:

An allied problem, according to the Immigration Bureau, is that some foreigners trying to live in Thailand do not have sufficient funds for their stay. The current crackdown is designed to weed them out as well. Lack of funds causes some aliens to be a burden on the Thai health service. Research has suggested that nonpaying foreigners may be costing the country 100 million baht a year.

How can foreigners cost anything, when guarantee for payment is required upfront in all hospitals, EVEN if you are on the brink of dying? I was run down on my bike and hurt seriously and the ICU plus the hospital which did the surgery on me both required proof of my insurance before they did ANYTHING!

Mai Koh Chai????

Private hospital or government?

I had a bike accident, was unconscious, broken clavicle. No problems. Just paid on leaving hospital 3 days later. Amazingly it was less than 10,000b.

Saying that BUPA do medical cover for about 2,500b per month. And some debit cards also have emergency medical cover. SCB is one.

I was at a government ICU first, then a private hospital. I wasn't unconscious, so maybe that was the big difference? They both asked for my insurance document upfront.

[brianp0803]

I have heard that most people teaching at language school do not have work permits - but I wonder about actual statistics. It is sad because these are legitimate jobs that Thailand needs.

Sad if the paperwork (or cost) exceeds the willingness of schools to pay

[brianp0803]

Thailand is making it hard to people who want to be long time teachers to get work permit

Currently, Thailand welcomes anybody with a degree (but no experience) to extend their vacation and teach in Thailand for maximum 4 years with a work permit.

After 4 years teaching math in Thailand with a degree in math, I am told I an no longer get a work permit with an education degree.

Now, instead of hiring experience teachers, schools are hiring inexperienced people wanting to stay in Thailand a a few years - but not serious about teaching.

This is the teacher's council idea to improve the quality of foreign teachers.

The result is experience teachers wanting to live and have a life in Thailand can not get work permits - but someone with no experience is allowed to experiment with teaching and stay in Thailand longer

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The 50,000 Baht per month is a requirement for a 1-year extension but not for a work permit. Guess the key problem is the lack of a bachelors degree, maybe the lack of a clean police record in a few cases...

There is no such requirement for educational employment.

Paperwork for a WP is approx 2,500bht.

The problem is not that a WP is costly, but the potential teacher is not qualified, or the language school is not licensed.

[dogpatch55]

30,000 a low wage?????? Its twice what a thai nurse would earn!!

[casualbiker]

30,000 a low wage?????? Its twice what a thai nurse would earn!!

Really!! Maybe twice what a nurse starting out but after 5 years, not so much. After 10 presuming advancement about the same. And considering no access to easy loans like a Thai nurse or teacher etc then for a foreigner it is low. For a Thai it's ok. You would surprised how many Thais earn 30k plus.

[Deacon Bell]

It would break the Thai's brain and soul to do what's needed...... make it easy for Westerners.

Drop the degree requirement for NES to teach speaking and listening.

Easy WP and annual extension for them, only requirements are a TEFL cert, police check and either a NES or non-native with a TOIEC score of xxx. Those itmes and a letter from the school and all done in 5 minutes.

Unfortunately it would destroy them to do it, to make it easy for Westerners to come here and easily teach and stay here earning three times what they make.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Deacon Bell

[biggles45]

Arn't they looking at this from the wrong angle? The problem is with the schools, not with the teachers.

Instead of banning visa runs and making it harder for people who work without a WP, why don't they make it easier for the schools to process the permit, reduce the paper work and the time process. Prosecute the schools that continue to employ teachers without providing a WP. . No illegal teachers, no teacher shortage and everyone is happy. Immigration should get the Labour Department on side.

[Deacon Bell]

why don't they make it easier for the schools to process the permit, reduce the paper work and the time process.

That would be intelligent, logical progression.

Nuff said.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Deacon Bell

[tingtongtourist]

Good because these <deleted> language schools try to pay part-time teachers 300 baht an hour. Glad to see them hurting...

They dont try to..they DO only pay this and keep getting away with it to because the desperado farang keeps accepting it

[Deacon Bell]

Good because these <deleted> language schools try to pay part-time teachers 300 baht an hour. Glad to see them hurting...

They dont try to..they DO only pay this and keep getting away with it to because the desperado farang keeps accepting it

Unskilled Thai. 300 baht per day minimum wage for working 10+ hours in the heat.

Unskilled Farang. 300 baht per hour, for speaking for 60 minutes.

Could be worse.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Deacon Bell

[tingtongtourist]

Good because these <deleted> language schools try to pay part-time teachers 300 baht an hour. Glad to see them hurting...

They dont try to..they DO only pay this and keep getting away with it to because the desperado farang keeps accepting it

Unskilled Thai. 300 baht per day minimum wage for working 10+ hours in the heat.

Unskilled Farang. 300 baht per hour, for speaking for 60 minutes.

Could be worse.

and the thai who run the agency charge the school 1000 bht per hour for the farang and then give farang 300 and put in pocket 700 and sit in aircon and doing nothing. Also farang takes risk of getting caught

this is why the farang who know are angry but silly for you if you do it

[casualbiker]

Good because these language schools try to pay part-time teachers 300 baht an hour. Glad to see them hurting...

They dont try to..they DO only pay this and keep getting away with it to because the desperado farang keeps accepting it

Unskilled Thai. 300 baht per day minimum wage for working 10+ hours in the heat.

Unskilled Farang. 300 baht per hour, for speaking for 60 minutes.

Could be worse.

and the thai who run the agency charge the school 1000 bht per hour for the farang and then give farang 300 and put in pocket 700 and sit in aircon and doing nothing. Also farang takes risk of getting caught

this is why the farang who know are angry but silly for you if you do it

So the agency have no overheads, rent,electricity, staff wages etc?