Gaza conflict: Truce ends amid fresh fighting

[konying]

Balanced and sympathetic maybe only in your own Australian minds.

If it was just that bit, I'd agree. Adding his usual anti-Israeli poison to it was his main reason for posting, like all other posts he & you make on these topics, mate. No added sugar coating gonna change this.

So am I, like yourself - really despair for humanity for having such blind, ignorant (although usually intelligent) people posting their opinions while they don't know what the definition "Arab" means, what really happened in the Holocaust and what Goebles doctrine was and or who think that all Israelis are European immigrants.

People who think reading or quoting "1984" making them geniuses and experts in all international issues and especially the Arab conflict.

People who think if they learnt a few words "Hasbara", "eretz israel", "shalom" and who spent a few minutes in a Kibbutz, make them experts to all things Israel (and Palestinians).

People who constantly dodge any question, for which answer to will put Israel in a positive light.

People who see terrorists savagely executing people, even their own, keep silence, but when they see a country executing terrorist-leaders who attack it (when it's nearly impossible to kill them more discriminately than that) - outcry.

People when being asked "what is a proportional response to such attacks?", have no idea what to answer, yet they have a lot of criticism.

People who don't have the humility to stay out of discussions they are not fully understanding/informed or at the very least not post lies and manufactured facts & opinions and call them "well documented facts".

Other than that, I stand behind my post, which was a reply to up_country_sinclair, not to anybody else.

I, for once, am not the one with blind hatred (unless you mean hatred for ignorance & lies), on the contrary, I am full of love and hope for peace and believe all men were born equal.

You, mate, should read many of my posts (or even better, Morch's). Maybe you will learn a few things, maybe you've learned everything you can or willing.

Either way, it's time for a change.

Well, cobber, you have outdone yourself with yet another arrogant rant. That's twice today, so I can only guess at what may have befallen you. And, BTW, what is it about Australians? That's twice you have tried to use the term as some sort of dig. Do you really think that calling someone Australian has some insult value? Or aren't other nationalities than yours entitled to opinions in your friendly little world of pro-Israeli apologists?

And I have not accused you of blind hatred - an extraordinarily heavy bias towards one side, yes. Which is evident. But hatred, no.

I would also point out that adult humans who possess the power of rational thought (a rare commodity amongst some of your confreres, as I'm sure even you have noticed) do tend to develop their own ideas. As I have done. And many others who oppose Israel's actions on this thread. You obviously resent the fact that people arrive at their own conclusions, but you will just have to adjust - the world is like that. And like many other people who publicly undertake to highlight the inhumanity of Israel's actions, and the absurdity of its political positions, I am aware of the traditional dominance of Israeli views across the English speaking world. I believe that for a balanced picture to be presented I must at times pay greater attention to the wrongs perpetrated by Israel. And it will no doubt surprise you, but I really do care for Israel, and want it to survive into the future with a healthy and happy population. There are people whom I love dearly in Israel. But that doesn't justify turning a blind eye to its excesses.

And I readily acknowledge that my experience of living in Israel is probably far less than yours (although I suspect that even my few short weeks in Palestine visiting a university, schools, homes, youth clubs, and refugee camps may be more than your involvement). But you imply that a limited exposure to daily life in Israel means a limited understanding of the situation. Well, normally that may be true. But given the over-exposure of Israelis to the hasbara (that word again!) propaganda machine, I would propose that the limited time there may be an advantage in arriving at a more impartial view. But even were I to have never set foot in Israel, my views are still entitled to credence. More so because they do not arrive from a religious, cultural or ethnic prejudice, but from an adherence to principles of humanity and an appetite for reading. And to illustrate the absurdity of your protest: I suspect that you are not an expert on the Weimar Republic but would have views on the nature of German politics in that era. Unlike you, this would not be sufficient basis for me to insist that you keep these to yourself - nor would I indulge in such a supercilious and mean-spirited little rant as you have done if I disagreed with them. And I suggest that you don't advocate for others pay more attention to views that accord with yours while you have the temerity to ignore theirs. Shalom (another one of those words).

But with your own logic, Israel pulled out of Gaza because Israel wants Gaza.

So your perspective on things is some what distorted one way or another.

Trying to pass yourself as a balanced observer, i am afraid has failed,

But just out of curiosity, do tell what airline you used to fly, which border you used to cross, what documentation you provided and what exact schools and university's you visited.

Most importantly, i am very interested to hear about your visit to a refuge camp in Gaza.

So a name of the refuge camp in Gaza and its location would be great.

Thanks in advance

[konying]

There is no level the Zionists will not stoop to? Sounds like hate speech to me.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If it is, then "there is no level Islamist won't stoop to" is also hate speech. Would you agree?

Not interested in responding to baits from people who are so rabidly anti-Zionist.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Really?? "Baits"?

Here is a prime example of how biased you actually are, and how you refuse to answer when proven so; "There is no level radical Islamists will not stoop to" is OK by you, but exchange one group for the other and it is hate speech, and when called on it you say I am baiting.

Still awaiting response to post 264

Thanks in advance

[dr_lucas]

Condolences...but. "Beautiful".

It is actually the direct consequence of Gazans electing such an extremist terror organization.

You, and JT who like your post, should read and contemplate the entire CBR250 post that is quoted. It was a balanced and sympathetic cry to the tragedies that are occurring every day.

Really....for once, stop with your blind hatred and consider all the facts. Really contemplate the post.

I despair for humanity.

Balanced and sympathetic maybe only in your own Australian minds.

If it was just that bit, I'd agree. Adding his usual anti-Israeli poison to it was his main reason for posting, like all other posts he & you make on these topics, mate. No added sugar coating gonna change this.

So am I, like yourself - really despair for humanity for having such blind, ignorant (although usually intelligent) people posting their opinions while they don't know what the definition "Arab" means, what really happened in the Holocaust and what Goebles doctrine was and or who think that all Israelis are European immigrants.

People who think reading or quoting "1984" making them geniuses and experts in all international issues and especially the Arab conflict.

People who think if they learnt a few words "Hasbara", "eretz israel", "shalom" and who spent a few minutes in a Kibbutz, make them experts to all things Israel (and Palestinians).

People who constantly dodge any question, for which answer to will put Israel in a positive light.

People who see terrorists savagely executing people, even their own, keep silence, but when they see a country executing terrorist-leaders who attack it (when it's nearly impossible to kill them more discriminately than that) - outcry.

People when being asked "what is a proportional response to such attacks?", have no idea what to answer, yet they have a lot of criticism.

People who don't have the humility to stay out of discussions they are not fully understanding/informed or at the very least not post lies and manufactured facts & opinions and call them "well documented facts".

Other than that, I stand behind my post, which was a reply to up_country_sinclair, not to anybody else.

I, for once, am not the one with blind hatred (unless you mean hatred for ignorance & lies), on the contrary, I am full of love and hope for peace and believe all men were born equal.

You, mate, should read many of my posts (or even better, Morch's). Maybe you will learn a few things, maybe you've learned everything you can or willing.

Either way, it's time for a change.

"..only in...Australian minds"? Your showing your proclivity for racism...wrong word...discrimination.

What has "the definition of Arab" got to do with this (again, your proclivity is probably showing), and, most importantly, what has what happened during the holocaust got to do with this?...What? Except for showing the giant chip on the collective shoulder that somehow makes Jews fragile "nobody should oppose us no matter what we do or say, and if you do oppose us, you're as bad as the Nazis" drama queens..Actually, you'd think that what happened during the holocaust would make today's Jews abhor what is being done to the Palestinians.

blah blah your commentary on other posters.....

What, in your mind IS appropriate response to rockets that fall in empty fields?

You obviously think you are well qualified to be in this discussion....yet show considerable bias.

You resent me commenting on your post....the truth hurts.

I WILL change my stance, as soon as a rational argument is made, which is more than can be said for the likes of you and some of your cronies....the lot of you constantly ignore truth, valid points, and justice.

Mate.

The term "minds" is plural, not singular. Since you both are Australians, that's what it meant, don't try to twist it. I see you added to your Israeli demonetization agenda a dr_lucas demonetization agenda, ey? mate.

2 of my best friends and my business partner for the past 7 years are Australians, they will laugh their ass off reading your "discrimination" bit. Thankfully, they are much more balanced and knowledgeable than yourself.

Just because you don't know (or maybe pretend not to know) some of the statements made by others my post was referring to suggests you might have not read some of the posts here, but it's understandable with all the many long threads.

Other members surely get it.

Even the way you ask the question, shows your clear bias, the right way to ask a question is to stick to facts (rather than beautify and twist them as you just did), to ask:

"What, in your mind, is the appropriate response to thousands of rockets being fired indiscriminately for years into civilian territories, killing 28 civilians, injuring and permanently maiming 1971+ innocents, endangering the lives of hundreds of thousands in their range, destroying & damaging civilian property, terrorizing innocent civilians by disrupting their life, their work?"

This is the question. Got any rational answer for this factual question? I'm really curios to know your opinion.

Edited August 23, 2014 by dr_lucas

[Seastallion]

Balanced and sympathetic maybe only in your own Australian minds.

If it was just that bit, I'd agree. Adding his usual anti-Israeli poison to it was his main reason for posting, like all other posts he & you make on these topics, mate. No added sugar coating gonna change this.

So am I, like yourself - really despair for humanity for having such blind, ignorant (although usually intelligent) people posting their opinions while they don't know what the definition "Arab" means, what really happened in the Holocaust and what Goebles doctrine was and or who think that all Israelis are European immigrants.

People who think reading or quoting "1984" making them geniuses and experts in all international issues and especially the Arab conflict.

People who think if they learnt a few words "Hasbara", "eretz israel", "shalom" and who spent a few minutes in a Kibbutz, make them experts to all things Israel (and Palestinians).

People who constantly dodge any question, for which answer to will put Israel in a positive light.

People who see terrorists savagely executing people, even their own, keep silence, but when they see a country executing terrorist-leaders who attack it (when it's nearly impossible to kill them more discriminately than that) - outcry.

People when being asked "what is a proportional response to such attacks?", have no idea what to answer, yet they have a lot of criticism.

People who don't have the humility to stay out of discussions they are not fully understanding/informed or at the very least not post lies and manufactured facts & opinions and call them "well documented facts".

Other than that, I stand behind my post, which was a reply to up_country_sinclair, not to anybody else.

I, for once, am not the one with blind hatred (unless you mean hatred for ignorance & lies), on the contrary, I am full of love and hope for peace and believe all men were born equal.

You, mate, should read many of my posts (or even better, Morch's). Maybe you will learn a few things, maybe you've learned everything you can or willing.

Either way, it's time for a change.

Well, cobber, you have outdone yourself with yet another arrogant rant. That's twice today, so I can only guess at what may have befallen you. And, BTW, what is it about Australians? That's twice you have tried to use the term as some sort of dig. Do you really think that calling someone Australian has some insult value? Or aren't other nationalities than yours entitled to opinions in your friendly little world of pro-Israeli apologists?

And I have not accused you of blind hatred - an extraordinarily heavy bias towards one side, yes. Which is evident. But hatred, no.

I would also point out that adult humans who possess the power of rational thought (a rare commodity amongst some of your confreres, as I'm sure even you have noticed) do tend to develop their own ideas. As I have done. And many others who oppose Israel's actions on this thread. You obviously resent the fact that people arrive at their own conclusions, but you will just have to adjust - the world is like that. And like many other people who publicly undertake to highlight the inhumanity of Israel's actions, and the absurdity of its political positions, I am aware of the traditional dominance of Israeli views across the English speaking world. I believe that for a balanced picture to be presented I must at times pay greater attention to the wrongs perpetrated by Israel. And it will no doubt surprise you, but I really do care for Israel, and want it to survive into the future with a healthy and happy population. There are people whom I love dearly in Israel. But that doesn't justify turning a blind eye to its excesses.

And I readily acknowledge that my experience of living in Israel is probably far less than yours (although I suspect that even my few short weeks in Palestine visiting a university, schools, homes, youth clubs, and refugee camps may be more than your involvement). But you imply that a limited exposure to daily life in Israel means a limited understanding of the situation. Well, normally that may be true. But given the over-exposure of Israelis to the hasbara (that word again!) propaganda machine, I would propose that the limited time there may be an advantage in arriving at a more impartial view. But even were I to have never set foot in Israel, my views are still entitled to credence. More so because they do not arrive from a religious, cultural or ethnic prejudice, but from an adherence to principles of humanity and an appetite for reading. And to illustrate the absurdity of your protest: I suspect that you are not an expert on the Weimar Republic but would have views on the nature of German politics in that era. Unlike you, this would not be sufficient basis for me to insist that you keep these to yourself - nor would I indulge in such a supercilious and mean-spirited little rant as you have done if I disagreed with them. And I suggest that you don't advocate for others pay more attention to views that accord with yours while you have the temerity to ignore theirs. Shalom (another one of those words).

It just needs posting again. I wish I was as eloquent.

[konying]

Here is an interesting take on casualties.

On Aug. 22, 2014, Haaretz published an analysis piece by Amira Hass, "How many Palestinian civilians is a single militant worth?" claiming that 76.8% of the 2090 documented fatalities in the recent hostilities between Israel and Hamas were civilians. Hass discusses the controversy over the proportions of the fatalities in the Gaza Strip that are civilians and militants. Israel claims that Hamas is concealing the true number of combatants in order to generate international outrage at Israel. But Hass counters that this strategy "contradicts the deep Palestinian and Hamas ethos of pride over those who were killed fighting the Zionist enemy."

http://blog.camera.org/archives/2014/08/amira_hasss_flawed_analysis_of.html

[konying]

Balanced and sympathetic maybe only in your own Australian minds.

If it was just that bit, I'd agree. Adding his usual anti-Israeli poison to it was his main reason for posting, like all other posts he & you make on these topics, mate. No added sugar coating gonna change this.

So am I, like yourself - really despair for humanity for having such blind, ignorant (although usually intelligent) people posting their opinions while they don't know what the definition "Arab" means, what really happened in the Holocaust and what Goebles doctrine was and or who think that all Israelis are European immigrants.

People who think reading or quoting "1984" making them geniuses and experts in all international issues and especially the Arab conflict.

People who think if they learnt a few words "Hasbara", "eretz israel", "shalom" and who spent a few minutes in a Kibbutz, make them experts to all things Israel (and Palestinians).

People who constantly dodge any question, for which answer to will put Israel in a positive light.

People who see terrorists savagely executing people, even their own, keep silence, but when they see a country executing terrorist-leaders who attack it (when it's nearly impossible to kill them more discriminately than that) - outcry.

People when being asked "what is a proportional response to such attacks?", have no idea what to answer, yet they have a lot of criticism.

People who don't have the humility to stay out of discussions they are not fully understanding/informed or at the very least not post lies and manufactured facts & opinions and call them "well documented facts".

Other than that, I stand behind my post, which was a reply to up_country_sinclair, not to anybody else.

I, for once, am not the one with blind hatred (unless you mean hatred for ignorance & lies), on the contrary, I am full of love and hope for peace and believe all men were born equal.

You, mate, should read many of my posts (or even better, Morch's). Maybe you will learn a few things, maybe you've learned everything you can or willing.

Either way, it's time for a change.

Well, cobber, you have outdone yourself with yet another arrogant rant. That's twice today, so I can only guess at what may have befallen you. And, BTW, what is it about Australians? That's twice you have tried to use the term as some sort of dig. Do you really think that calling someone Australian has some insult value? Or aren't other nationalities than yours entitled to opinions in your friendly little world of pro-Israeli apologists?

And I have not accused you of blind hatred - an extraordinarily heavy bias towards one side, yes. Which is evident. But hatred, no.

I would also point out that adult humans who possess the power of rational thought (a rare commodity amongst some of your confreres, as I'm sure even you have noticed) do tend to develop their own ideas. As I have done. And many others who oppose Israel's actions on this thread. You obviously resent the fact that people arrive at their own conclusions, but you will just have to adjust - the world is like that. And like many other people who publicly undertake to highlight the inhumanity of Israel's actions, and the absurdity of its political positions, I am aware of the traditional dominance of Israeli views across the English speaking world. I believe that for a balanced picture to be presented I must at times pay greater attention to the wrongs perpetrated by Israel. And it will no doubt surprise you, but I really do care for Israel, and want it to survive into the future with a healthy and happy population. There are people whom I love dearly in Israel. But that doesn't justify turning a blind eye to its excesses.

And I readily acknowledge that my experience of living in Israel is probably far less than yours (although I suspect that even my few short weeks in Palestine visiting a university, schools, homes, youth clubs, and refugee camps may be more than your involvement). But you imply that a limited exposure to daily life in Israel means a limited understanding of the situation. Well, normally that may be true. But given the over-exposure of Israelis to the hasbara (that word again!) propaganda machine, I would propose that the limited time there may be an advantage in arriving at a more impartial view. But even were I to have never set foot in Israel, my views are still entitled to credence. More so because they do not arrive from a religious, cultural or ethnic prejudice, but from an adherence to principles of humanity and an appetite for reading. And to illustrate the absurdity of your protest: I suspect that you are not an expert on the Weimar Republic but would have views on the nature of German politics in that era. Unlike you, this would not be sufficient basis for me to insist that you keep these to yourself - nor would I indulge in such a supercilious and mean-spirited little rant as you have done if I disagreed with them. And I suggest that you don't advocate for others pay more attention to views that accord with yours while you have the temerity to ignore theirs. Shalom (another one of those words).

It just needs posting again. I wish I was as eloquent.

Post 264?

Do i need to re post it again, or any other reason why you "do not notice it" as you "did not notice it" on other threads?

[dr_lucas]

@Seastallion, it's not about eloquence. I replied your post and will reply CBR250's shortly.

As Jaqen H'ghar once said - "A man has duties as well".

That said, the end of my post includes an important question for you. I will surely value your rational opinion/suggestion.

[Steely Dan]

Following the death of the four year old Israeli child many Israelis living close to Gaza are leaving for the North. As yet I don't have any numbers, but there was a demonstration in Tel Aviv comprising mainly of those living adjacent to Gaza demanding Hamas were dealt with in a manner that removed their capacity to launch rockets. In a recent poll 97% of Israelis were in favour of removing Hamas once and for all, but Netanyahu has agreed to seven ceasefires, Hamas broke them all.

The antisemitic faux liberals and one issue activists try to paint Netanyahu as extreme right wing, but he is actually taking flak from politicians as well as the public to authorize more decisive measures. The only reason I can see for Netanyahu hesitating is external pressure, but I believe the sight of Israelis packing up and,becoming refugees within their own Country may finally persuade Netanyahu to stick two fingers up to outside interference and finally get the job done.

I sincerely hope this turns out to be the case.

Edit Link added showing how internal pressure on Netanyahu is for more hawkish action not less.

http://app.debka.com/p/article/24207/Hammering-Hamas-chiefs-with-pinpointed-intelligence-is-Israel-s-new-war-focus-Ministers-in-mutiny

Edited August 23, 2014 by Steely Dan

[Seastallion]

Not interested in responding to baits from people who are so rabidly anti-Zionist.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Really?? "Baits"?

Here is a prime example of how biased you actually are, and how you refuse to answer when proven so; "There is no level radical Islamists will not stoop to" is OK by you, but exchange one group for the other and it is hate speech, and when called on it you say I am baiting.

Still awaiting response to post 264

Thanks in advance

What's that got to do with my post? Lets see a response to that. A sincere and not disingenuous response.

But to your request....sure....let's see the link. I haven't yet.

[konying]

What's that got to do with my post? Lets see a response to that. A sincere and not disingenuous response.

But to your request....sure....let's see the link. I haven't yet.

So just to confirm, you are now playing " the i have no idea card"?

Is that the reason for ignoring it for a few pages? or is there something else?

[konying]

Seastallion, this is to make sure you know what i am talking about.

Please give your take on things now

On Twitter, Barbati, Jerusalem Correspondent for Radio Popolare Milano, and a former reporter for Sky Italia, in Beijing, said, “Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday [yesterday] in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris.”

He said, “@IDFSpokesperson said truth in communique released yesterday about Shati camp massacre. It was not #Israel behind it.”http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/30/italian-journalist-defies-hamas-out-of-gaza-far-from-hamas-retaliation-misfired-rocket-killed-children-in-shati/

and second

[Seastallion]

e CBR250 post that is quoted. It was a balanced and sympathetic cry to the tragedies that are occurring every day.

Really....for once, stop with your blind hatred and consider all the facts. Really contemplate the post.

I despair for humanity.

Balanced and sympathetic maybe only in your own Australian minds.

If it was just that bit, I'd agree. Adding his usual anti-Israeli poison to it was his main reason for posting, like all other posts he & you make on these topics, mate. No added sugar coating gonna change this.

So am I, like yourself - really despair for humanity for having such blind, ignorant (although usually intelligent) people posting their opinions while they don't know what the definition "Arab" means, what really happened in the Holocaust and what Goebles doctrine was and or who think that all Israelis are European immigrants.

People who think reading or quoting "1984" making them geniuses and experts in all international issues and especially the Arab conflict.

People who think if they learnt a few words "Hasbara", "eretz israel", "shalom" and who spent a few minutes in a Kibbutz, make them experts to all things Israel (and Palestinians).

People who constantly dodge any question, for which answer to will put Israel in a positive light.

People who see terrorists savagely executing people, even their own, keep silence, but when they see a country executing terrorist-leaders who attack it (when it's nearly impossible to kill them more discriminately than that) - outcry.

People when being asked "what is a proportional response to such attacks?", have no idea what to answer, yet they have a lot of criticism.

People who don't have the humility to stay out of discussions they are not fully understanding/informed or at the very least not post lies and manufactured facts & opinions and call them "well documented facts".

Other than that, I stand behind my post, which was a reply to up_country_sinclair, not to anybody else.

I, for once, am not the one with blind hatred (unless you mean hatred for ignorance & lies), on the contrary, I am full of love and hope for peace and believe all men were born equal.

You, mate, should read many of my posts (or even better, Morch's). Maybe you will learn a few things, maybe you've learned everything you can or willing.

Either way, it's time for a change.

"..only in...Australian minds"? Your showing your proclivity for racism...wrong word...discrimination.

What has "the definition of Arab" got to do with this (again, your proclivity is probably showing), and, most importantly, what has what happened during the holocaust got to do with this?...What? Except for showing the giant chip on the collective shoulder that somehow makes Jews fragile "nobody should oppose us no matter what we do or say, and if you do oppose us, you're as bad as the Nazis" drama queens..Actually, you'd think that what happened during the holocaust would make today's Jews abhor what is being done to the Palestinians.

blah blah your commentary on other posters.....

What, in your mind IS appropriate response to rockets that fall in empty fields?

You obviously think you are well qualified to be in this discussion....yet show considerable bias.

You resent me commenting on your post....the truth hurts.

I WILL change my stance, as soon as a rational argument is made, which is more than can be said for the likes of you and some of your cronies....the lot of you constantly ignore truth, valid points, and justice.

Mate.

The term "minds" is plural, not singular. Since you both are Australians, that's what it meant, don't try to twist it. I see you added to your Israeli demonetization agenda a dr_lucas demonetization agenda, ey? mate.

2 of my best friends and my business partner for the past 7 years are Australians, they will laugh their ass off reading your "discrimination" bit. Thankfully, they are much more balanced and knowledgeable than yourself.

Just because you don't know (or maybe pretend not to know) some of the statements made by others my post was referring to suggests you might have not read some of the posts here, but it's understandable with all the many long threads.

Other members surely get it.

Even the way you ask the question, shows your clear bias, the right way to ask a question is to stick to facts (rather than beautify and twist them as you just did), to ask:

"What, in your mind, is the appropriate response to thousands of rockets being fired indiscriminately for years into civilian territories, killing 28 civilians, injuring and permanently maiming 1971+ innocents, endangering the lives of hundreds of thousands in their range, destroying & damaging civilian property, terrorizing innocent civilians by disrupting their life, their work?"

This is the question. Got any rational answer for this factual question? I'm really curios to know your opinion.

But you didn't answer your so-called "real" question.

I'm not getting what singular or plural has to do with isolating us both as Australians with an Australian mind. It still reeks of the attitude of one who has a tendency to discriminate on nationality. Not much different from racism. I wouldn't mind betting your colleagues would be laughing at you....you do seem irrational.

If the rockets were really endangering "hundreds of thousands in their range", and if 99.9% of the Palestinians want to "kill all Jews", why is the death toll only 28?

I'm not sure what a "factual" question is, but your question is essentially what I think is an appropriate response.

I think an appropriate response could be one that does not say, "Hey <deleted>, you live amongst kids, we don't care, we'll blow the <deleted> out you anyway and it's YOUR fault the kids die"

Edited August 23, 2014 by Seastallion

[konying]

One more for you Seastallion

Incredible Videos Reveal How Gaza Terror Groups Appears to Be Using Journalists as Human Shields http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/01/incredible-videos-reveal-how-journalists-are-being-used-as-human-shields-by-gaza-terror-groups/

[konying]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4xkSFlZ-v0

[Seastallion]

Seastallion, this is to make sure you know what i am talking about.

Please give your take on things now

On Twitter, Barbati, Jerusalem Correspondent for Radio Popolare Milano, and a former reporter for Sky Italia, in Beijing, said, “Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday [yesterday] in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris.”

He said, “@IDFSpokesperson said truth in communique released yesterday about Shati camp massacre. It was not #Israel behind it.”http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/30/italian-journalist-defies-hamas-out-of-gaza-far-from-hamas-retaliation-misfired-rocket-killed-children-in-shati/

and second

Firstly, you asked me (quite impatiently) about the Italian claim, but you posted what seems to be an Italian with a decided Indian accent.

Never mind.

Nobody denies rockets are being launched. From the footage, I would say that precision Israeli response would hurt nobody but an unlucky passerby. Thanks for showing it and in so doing emphasise how Israel is killing civilians willy nilly.

Furthermore....there was a change in time and aspect between the footage of tent erection and so-called rocket launch. So very lucky camera was rolling at that precise moment!!! and from a different vantage point a day after the commentary began! And we saw, what? the camera shake, the footage blur..and smoke. And the reporter...knowing full well what could happen "only metres away" in retaliation, stayed? He knew the area could be blasted to smithereens....brave journalist or sensationalist with a non-story?

I have my doubts about it....but even if authentic...what does it prove? Nothing we don't already know; people are firing rockets.

What's your point in keeping me away from my dinner to answer you?

Edited August 23, 2014 by Seastallion

[Ulysses G.]

Nobody denies rockets are being launched.

Finally making some progress.

[konying]

Seastallion, this is to make sure you know what i am talking about.

Please give your take on things now

On Twitter, Barbati, Jerusalem Correspondent for Radio Popolare Milano, and a former reporter for Sky Italia, in Beijing, said, “Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday [yesterday] in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris.”

He said, “@IDFSpokesperson said truth in communique released yesterday about Shati camp massacre. It was not #Israel behind it.”http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/30/italian-journalist-defies-hamas-out-of-gaza-far-from-hamas-retaliation-misfired-rocket-killed-children-in-shati/

and second

Firstly, you asked me (quite impatiently) about the Italian claim, but you posted what seems to be an Italian with a decided Indian accent.

Never mind.

Nobody denies rockets are being launched. From the footage, I would say that precision Israeli response would hurt nobody but an unlucky passerby. Thanks for showing it and in so doing emphasise how Israel is killing civilians willy nilly.

Problems reading or selective reading?

Lets address your first acknowledgement, so now you agree that rockets are being fired from civilian locations.

Another posted clip by French reporter, confirms it once again Hamas firing from civilian locations.

Now lets underline it for you, since you either missed it AGAIN or had problems with selective reading. Basically to summarize, INDEPENDENT reporter states that it WAS Hamas who killed all the people at the hospital but cleaned up their mess to blame Israel.

On Twitter, Barbati, Jerusalem Correspondent for Radio Popolare Milano, and a former reporter for Sky Italia, in Beijing, said, “Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday [yesterday] in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris.”

He said, “@IDFSpokesperson said truth in communique released yesterday about Shati camp massacre. It was not #Israel behind it.”http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/30/italian-journalist-defies-hamas-out-of-gaza-far-from-hamas-retaliation-misfired-rocket-killed-children-in-shati/

[Jingthing]

Seastallion, this is to make sure you know what i am talking about.

Please give your take on things now

On Twitter, Barbati, Jerusalem Correspondent for Radio Popolare Milano, and a former reporter for Sky Italia, in Beijing, said, “Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday [yesterday] in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris.”

He said, “@IDFSpokesperson said truth in communique released yesterday about Shati camp massacre. It was not #Israel behind it.”http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/30/italian-journalist-defies-hamas-out-of-gaza-far-from-hamas-retaliation-misfired-rocket-killed-children-in-shati/

and second

Firstly, you asked me (quite impatiently) about the Italian claim, but you posted what seems to be an Italian with a decided Indian accent.

Never mind.

Nobody denies rockets are being launched. From the footage, I would say that precision Israeli response would hurt nobody but an unlucky passerby. Thanks for showing it and in so doing emphasise how Israel is killing civilians willy nilly.

Furthermore....there was a change in time and aspect between the footage of tent erection and so-called rocket launch. So very lucky camera was rolling at that precise moment!!! and from a different vantage point a day after the commentary began! And we saw, what? the camera shake, the footage blur..and smoke. And the reporter...knowing full well what could happen "only metres away" in retaliation, stayed? He knew the area could be blasted to smithereens....brave journalist or sensationalist with a non-story?

I have my doubts about it....but even if authentic...what does it prove? Nothing we don't already know; people are firing rockets.

What's your point in keeping me away from my dinner to answer you?

Jews aren't perfect. Israeli precision -- what a crock. Absurdly high expectations. WHY? Where does that come from, expecting perfection from the Jewish state and no other state? Flawed human beings just like you. This is a WAR! Very messy. Solution for Hamas -- stop firing rockets!

This insidious gambit of disingenuously expecting technical perfection from the Jewish state in wartime ... and then when they are predictably imperfect being mere humans ... the hateful charge goes up ... INTENTIONAL BABY KILLERS. Sadly this kind of propaganda game has been working in demonizing the side ISRAEL that really doesn't deserve demonizing.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

What's that got to do with my post? Lets see a response to that. A sincere and not disingenuous response.

But to your request....sure....let's see the link. I haven't yet.

So just to confirm, you are now playing " the i have no idea card"?

Is that the reason for ignoring it for a few pages? or is there something else?

Don't get your knickers in a twist...I have a life outside of this thread.

Forget about trying to discredit me just because I want to have dinner and didn't respiond to you immediately....puerile.

Very very different from the real and obvious avoidance of other posters (I'm not going to mention JusT anybody's name for fear of being called an anti_Semite.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Seastallion

[konying]

Seastallion, this is to make sure you know what i am talking about.

Please give your take on things now

On Twitter, Barbati, Jerusalem Correspondent for Radio Popolare Milano, and a former reporter for Sky Italia, in Beijing, said, “Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday [yesterday] in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris.”

He said, “@IDFSpokesperson said truth in communique released yesterday about Shati camp massacre. It was not #Israel behind it.”http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/30/italian-journalist-defies-hamas-out-of-gaza-far-from-hamas-retaliation-misfired-rocket-killed-children-in-shati/

and second

Firstly, you asked me (quite impatiently) about the Italian claim, but you posted what seems to be an Italian with a decided Indian accent.

Never mind.

Nobody denies rockets are being launched. From the footage, I would say that precision Israeli response would hurt nobody but an unlucky passerby. Thanks for showing it and in so doing emphasise how Israel is killing civilians willy nilly.

Furthermore....there was a change in time and aspect between the footage of tent erection and so-called rocket launch. So very lucky camera was rolling at that precise moment!!! and from a different vantage point a day after the commentary began! And we saw, what? the camera shake, the footage blur..and smoke. And the reporter...knowing full well what could happen "only metres away" in retaliation, stayed? He knew the area could be blasted to smithereens....brave journalist or sensationalist with a non-story?

I have my doubts about it....but even if authentic...what does it prove? Nothing we don't already know; people are firing rockets.

What's your point in keeping me away from my dinner to answer you?

I am glad you are an expert on video authenticity now

What does it prove? well to someone with common sense and some rational thoughts that it is indeed true that Hamas fires and keeps rockets in civilian locations with little regard for its own people.

Clearly to you and a few others, it does not prove anything, because your sole aim is to bash Israel.

The sad reality for you and co is that Israel exist and will continue to do so.

Israel will defend itself, this is the reality you SHOULD start to deal with.

[konying]

What's that got to do with my post? Lets see a response to that. A sincere and not disingenuous response.

But to your request....sure....let's see the link. I haven't yet.

So just to confirm, you are now playing " the i have no idea card"?

Is that the reason for ignoring it for a few pages? or is there something else?

Don't get your knickers in a twist...I have a life outside of this thread.

Forget about trying to discredit me just because I want to have dinner and didn't respiond to you immediately....puerile.

I understand.

You do have time and do not have life to post nonsense in response to others, but you do not have time and do have life to respond to something which totally defies your agenda and breaks down all your arguments.

[Scott]

There is a significant amount of interpersonal bickering, baiting and sniping. Such posts are off-topic and inflammatory and can result in a suspension.

Please stay on topic and the topic is about other posters.

[dr_lucas]

Balanced and sympathetic maybe only in your own Australian minds.

If it was just that bit, I'd agree. Adding his usual anti-Israeli poison to it was his main reason for posting, like all other posts he & you make on these topics, mate. No added sugar coating gonna change this.

So am I, like yourself - really despair for humanity for having such blind, ignorant (although usually intelligent) people posting their opinions while they don't know what the definition "Arab" means, what really happened in the Holocaust and what Goebles doctrine was and or who think that all Israelis are European immigrants.

People who think reading or quoting "1984" making them geniuses and experts in all international issues and especially the Arab conflict.

People who think if they learnt a few words "Hasbara", "eretz israel", "shalom" and who spent a few minutes in a Kibbutz, make them experts to all things Israel (and Palestinians).

People who constantly dodge any question, for which answer to will put Israel in a positive light.

People who see terrorists savagely executing people, even their own, keep silence, but when they see a country executing terrorist-leaders who attack it (when it's nearly impossible to kill them more discriminately than that) - outcry.

People when being asked "what is a proportional response to such attacks?", have no idea what to answer, yet they have a lot of criticism.

People who don't have the humility to stay out of discussions they are not fully understanding/informed or at the very least not post lies and manufactured facts & opinions and call them "well documented facts".

Other than that, I stand behind my post, which was a reply to up_country_sinclair, not to anybody else.

I, for once, am not the one with blind hatred (unless you mean hatred for ignorance & lies), on the contrary, I am full of love and hope for peace and believe all men were born equal.

You, mate, should read many of my posts (or even better, Morch's). Maybe you will learn a few things, maybe you've learned everything you can or willing.

Either way, it's time for a change.

"..only in...Australian minds"? Your showing your proclivity for racism...wrong word...discrimination.

What has "the definition of Arab" got to do with this (again, your proclivity is probably showing), and, most importantly, what has what happened during the holocaust got to do with this?...What? Except for showing the giant chip on the collective shoulder that somehow makes Jews fragile "nobody should oppose us no matter what we do or say, and if you do oppose us, you're as bad as the Nazis" drama queens..Actually, you'd think that what happened during the holocaust would make today's Jews abhor what is being done to the Palestinians.

blah blah your commentary on other posters.....

What, in your mind IS appropriate response to rockets that fall in empty fields?

You obviously think you are well qualified to be in this discussion....yet show considerable bias.

You resent me commenting on your post....the truth hurts.

I WILL change my stance, as soon as a rational argument is made, which is more than can be said for the likes of you and some of your cronies....the lot of you constantly ignore truth, valid points, and justice.

Mate.

The term "minds" is plural, not singular. Since you both are Australians, that's what it meant, don't try to twist it. I see you added to your Israeli demonetization agenda a dr_lucas demonetization agenda, ey? mate.

2 of my best friends and my business partner for the past 7 years are Australians, they will laugh their ass off reading your "discrimination" bit. Thankfully, they are much more balanced and knowledgeable than yourself.

Just because you don't know (or maybe pretend not to know) some of the statements made by others my post was referring to suggests you might have not read some of the posts here, but it's understandable with all the many long threads.

Other members surely get it.

Even the way you ask the question, shows your clear bias, the right way to ask a question is to stick to facts (rather than beautify and twist them as you just did), to ask:

"What, in your mind, is the appropriate response to thousands of rockets being fired indiscriminately for years into civilian territories, killing 28 civilians, injuring and permanently maiming 1971+ innocents, endangering the lives of hundreds of thousands in their range, destroying & damaging civilian property, terrorizing innocent civilians by disrupting their life, their work?"

This is the question. Got any rational answer for this factual question? I'm really curios to know your opinion.

But you didn't answer your so-called "real" question.

I'm not getting what singular or plural has to do with isolating us both as Australians with an Australian mind. It still reeks of the attitude of one who has a tendency to discriminate on nationality. Not much different from racism. I wouldn't mind betting your colleagues would be laughing at you....you do seem irrational.

If the rockets were really endangering "hundreds of thousands in their range", and if 99.9% of the Palestinians want to "kill all Jews", why is the death toll only 28?

I'm not sure what a "factual" question is, but your question is essentially what I think is an appropriate response.

I think an appropriate response could be one that does not say, "Hey <deleted>, you live amongst kids, we don't care, we'll blow the <deleted> out you anyway and it's YOUR fault the kids die"

The Australian bit was meant as a cynic joke, maybe not a well baked one, but the point was that you recommended his post - as balanced and sympathetic. I was referring to it and to the both of you in this context only.

It was amusing because it just looked like a sort of Australian brotherhood, when one Aussie recommends the other Aussie's post (who might thought the same as you about his post, ie. only in your Aussie minds), and conveniently describing it as something it is not. It just seemed like a fitting joke.

I have nothing but utmost respect and admiration to many Australians, I am indifferent to others, and I dislike a few. Just the same as with people of any other nationality that I know, including Israelis.

Actually, I assure you there are many more Israelis I dislike than Australians I dislike.

If my usage of the term Australian offended you or anyone, that was absolutely not my intention, and I apologize.

Now, back to the topic.

When did I ever say 99.9% of the Palestinians want to kill all Jews? I am 100% sure you are mixing me up with someone else.

Do you suggest that there aren't hundreds of thousands of Israeli civilians in the rockets range?

Do you suggest Israel deliberately targets innocents?

The success rate of the rockets is irrelevant, their destructive potential is relevant. Many of these terror attacks did not fail due to incompetence but were eliminated by anti-missile defense systems. The defense system isn't perfect, it has approximately 90% success rate and no existing technology can improve that.

There were also over 1971 injured innocent civilians, many of them permanently maimed. There was/is also a lot of damage and destruction to civilian property.

Note that these terror attacks were also accompanied by other terror suicide bombing attacks targeting civilians which took the toll of 804 innocent civilian lives, man, women and children and 1000s of injuries, many critically and many citizens will stay permanently disabled.

So, for once, can you rationally answer my question, without dodging it the same way you just did?

What, in your mind, is the appropriate response to thousands of rockets being fired indiscriminately for years into civilian territories, killing 28 civilians, injuring and permanently maiming 1971+ innocents, endangering the lives of hundreds of thousands in their range, destroying & damaging civilian property, terrorizing innocent civilians by disrupting their life, their work?

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts and replies deleted.

[arjunadawn]

Here is an interesting take on casualties.

On Aug. 22, 2014, Haaretz published an analysis piece by Amira Hass, "How many Palestinian civilians is a single militant worth?" claiming that 76.8% of the 2090 documented fatalities in the recent hostilities between Israel and Hamas were civilians. Hass discusses the controversy over the proportions of the fatalities in the Gaza Strip that are civilians and militants. Israel claims that Hamas is concealing the true number of combatants in order to generate international outrage at Israel. But Hass counters that this strategy "contradicts the deep Palestinian and Hamas ethos of pride over those who were killed fighting the Zionist enemy."

http://blog.camera.org/archives/2014/08/amira_hasss_flawed_analysis_of.html

It is a fundamental tenet in warfare to underestimate your loses and exaggerate the loses of the opposition. This truism is particularly important in unconventional warfare, insurgency type operations. This is the mechanism to both demonize your opponent's population and motivating your own. Because of the existing media bias that Israel already operates within, it is not difficult for Hamas, et al, to manipulate the numbers. I make no comment on real or perceived civilian losses (or whether numbers are often or occasionally fudged); only that the tendency to fudge numbers is an extension of the battlefield.

[CBR250]

The Australian bit was meant as a cynic joke, maybe not a well baked one, but the point was that you recommended his post - as balanced and sympathetic. I was referring to it and to the both of you in this context only.

It was amusing because it just looked like a sort of Australian brotherhood, when one Aussie recommends the other Aussie's post (who might thought the same as you about his post, ie. only in your Aussie minds), and conveniently describing it as something it is not. It just seemed like a fitting joke.

I have nothing but utmost respect and admiration to many Australians, I am indifferent to others, and I dislike a few. Just the same as with people of any other nationality that I know, including Israelis.

Actually, I assure you there are many more Israelis I dislike than Australians I dislike.

If my usage of the term Australian offended you or anyone, that was absolutely not my intention, and I apologize.

Now, back to the topic.

When did I ever say 99.9% of the Palestinians want to kill all Jews? I am 100% sure you are mixing me up with someone else.

Do you suggest that there aren't hundreds of thousands of Israeli civilians in the rockets range?

Do you suggest Israel deliberately targets innocents?

The success rate of the rockets is irrelevant, their destructive potential is relevant. Many of these terror attacks did not fail due to incompetence but were eliminated by anti-missile defense systems. The defense system isn't perfect, it has approximately 90% success rate and no existing technology can improve that.

There were also over 1971 injured innocent civilians, many of them permanently maimed. There was/is also a lot of damage and destruction to civilian property.

Note that these terror attacks were also accompanied by other terror suicide bombing attacks targeting civilians which took the toll of 804 innocent civilian lives, man, women and children and 1000s of injuries, many critically and many citizens will stay permanently disabled.

So, for once, can you rationally answer my question, without dodging it the same way you just did?

What, in your mind, is the appropriate response to thousands of rockets being fired indiscriminately for years into civilian territories, killing 28 civilians, injuring and permanently maiming 1971+ innocents, endangering the lives of hundreds of thousands in their range, destroying & damaging civilian property, terrorizing innocent civilians by disrupting their life, their work?

Your humour about Australians didn't work. But ok, I accept you tried, and it was not intended as some offbeat denigration. And there is no brotherhood of Australians on here, just coincidence that some of us of similar views have the same nationality. You are fortunate that another Australian of my acquaintance doesn't join these threads, as he makes JT and General Grant look like soft little left-wing pussies.

I have not dodged your questions. If you have reasonable questions, I will always respond to them. And I respect your right to disagree with my answers. I will even go so far as to acknowledge (as I have done before, if you recall) that you do apply your intellect to the issues, and don't just respond with some knee-jerk Pavlovian reaction as do some of the posters.

And to respond to your question. I have said in other posts what I believe is required - but I will say it again, as I appreciate that there are a number of threads and numerous posts and responses, so it is easy to lose track. I hope you really do want to hear what I have to say, even if you don't agree with it. This willingness to listen is, of course, also the way forward in peace negotiations, ie at least start by trying to understand the others' position.

I believe that the appropriate response - now that the situation has been allowed to deteriorate to the current level - is to utilise international agents (USA, EU, UN - maybe some of the more moderate Arab states, although this isn't straightforward) to oversee a truce. And I think that Israel MUST make the first moves. This is not an indication of weakness or failure by Israel - it is just an acknowledgment that Israel holds most of the aces. It can use the international force to arrive at a temporary positions that are acceptable to both. I don't think it will be easy. I suspect that if Hamas believes a long-lasting ceasefire and credible peace process is ahead, that they will try to wreck it by aggressive actions. Only an Israeli government that, in contrast, really wants peace will manage such inevitable provocations effectively. And I am not at all confident that Israel can find a government that sincerely wants peace.

But that is what I see as an appropriate response to rockets being fired indiscriminately into Israel. What I see as an inappropriate response is to use the massively superior military power that Israel has at its disposal to attempt to crush the Hamas military - knowing full well that any attempt to do so will lead to massive numbers of deaths amongst innocent people in the short term, and the hardening of anti-israeli sentiment in the long term. If Palestinians really are living under such a primitive, vindictive and murderous body as Hamas is painted to be, then surely Palestinians would respond positively to an Israel that demonstrates common sense and compassion. And even if the evils of Hamas are overstated, as I suspect they may well be, Israel can still try to win a battle for the hearts and minds of Palestinians by demonstrating an adherence to principles of justice and humanity - not flouting those principles through flexing its military muscle at the cost of the civilian lives.

One comment I must make about your question - you present the facts of rockets from Hamas (which I don't dispute) as a single one-sided event. The fact that these rockets are fired after years of subjugation and inflicting humiliation onto the local Palestinians is absent from the picture you paint. Also absent is recognition of the targeted assassinations and destruction of property in Gaza; the loss of livelihoods, of freedom to travel; the extra judicial killings that include "collateral damage" of dead civilians. The rockets aren't just the result of some deeply embedded hatred for Jews (despite the claims of a few of the ratbags to which we are subjected). There are legitimate - or at least understandable - reasons why Palestinians supported Hamas in the 2005 elections. The preceding years of the blockade by Israel that wrecked the economy of Gaza, led to food shortages and lives of poverty; as well as attempts to colonise Gaza by settlers with IDF support, were guaranteed to alienate the population. Why does Israel think we should celebrate the fact that they gave up trying to colonise Gaza? Pretending they "returned land"? The Gazans know that this wasn't a peace gesture, despite Israel's media pretending it was. Really, it was an acknowledgement that the IDF could not provide protection for those settlers who had tried to take over tracts of land in Gaza without massive additional funding. To then blame the Gazans after all of this treatment for turning to Hamas is disingenuous at best. You would probably have done the same. I suspect I would have too, despite my preference for adult behaviour and peace.

So, I have attempted to answer your question about what I see as an appropriate response. In return, I would like to ask you to share your thoughts about the following: given we are stuck in this morass, what do you see as the long-term solution in terms of actions by Israel? (I'm tired of being told what Palestinians must do - there are two parties in this conflict. It is beneficial for us readers if you refer to Israel, being that is the country for which you have much more detailed knowledge). What can Israel do to help arrive at a point where Palestinians choose not to import arms to defend/attack? What can Israel do to arrive at a point where Palestinians want to get on with their neighbours in Israel so that all of their children (Israeli and Palestinian) can grow up in safety? How do we arrive at a point where Israel no longer spends 20% of its budget on warfare, but spends it on education, environment and quality of life projects for its citizens? What can Israel do that might ensure Palestine can be relied on as a reasonable neighbour who will not support the movements of terrorists hell bent on destroying Israel? What must Israel do?

[Ulysses G.]

One comment I must make about your question - you present the facts of rockets from Hamas (which I don't dispute) as a single one-sided event. The fact that these rockets are fired after years of subjugation and inflicting humiliation onto the local Palestinians is absent from the picture you paint.

The rockets are not something new. They are a continuation of violent Palestinian Arab attacks that started - at least - 100 years ago. The "humiliation" came from declaring war on Israel continually and losing over and over again. The Palestinians are responsible for most of their own problems.

There was NO BLOCKADE when Gaza was given to the Palestinians. There was NO BLOCKADE when they elected a violent TERRORIST GROUP, that vowed never to cooperate with Israel, to govern them. The Palestinians did these things THEMSELVES.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[Morch]

Right, there were. And Arabs slaughtered them on numerous occasions, prior to WW2.

And my sabra friends report that their parents and their Arab neighbours had frequent meals together prior to and during WW2.

Pity that bond of humanity has been badly damaged - if not broken -since that time by the greed and excessive thirst for power of generations of Israeli politicians.

That bit of idyllic painting would not necessarily characterize all (or even most) Arab-Jewish interactions and relationships in them fabled golden days of old. Good neighborly relationships existed in some places, definitely not as a rule. The so called "bond of humanity" was not as prevalent as suggested. Saying that something which did not exist was damaged by generations of Israeli politicians is inaccurate at best. Short on mentioning Arab leaders hate speech and inciting the public toward aggression and hate.

Your friends seem to have forgotten to mention instances of the opposite nature, perhaps their parents were just lucky.

[Morch]

Right, there were. And Arabs slaughtered them on numerous occasions, prior to WW2.

And my sabra friends report that their parents and their Arab neighbours had frequent meals together prior to and during WW2.

Pity that bond of humanity has been badly damaged - if not broken -since that time by the greed and excessive thirst for power of generations of Israeli politicians.

I'll skip your usual biased and false blanket statement (although I am sure that was your entire reason for posting this) and just tell you: It might surprise you, but this bond of humanity certainly have not been broken - even nowadays there are many (Jewish) "sabras" who have frequent meals together (and of course work, study and even serve in the IDF together) with some of their Arab neighbors (Muslims, Christians, Druze, Bedouin).

A bit off today, eh? Never mind. You'll feel better soon. However, while I wouldn't normally bother when you stoop so low, I will answer this one. But that's your ration for today.

You make it sound like happy families having picnics together. I wasn't able to find the exact numbers of Arabs & Christians in the IDF (Druze and Bedouins are slightly more special cases), but Professor Wiki notes: "From among non-Bedouin Arab citizens, the number of volunteers for military service—some Christian Arabs and even a few Muslim Arabs—is minute." So it seems that the "many" to whom you refer only reach the level of "minute" for Professor Wiki. And I know who has the highest credibility rating between you and Wiki. Note: "Many" is not a synonym for "minute".

And you are living in some parallel - and warped - universe if you think there has been no damage or fracture to the "bond of humanity" that once existed between Jewish and Arab neighbours in what is now Israel / Palestine. A simple tip for you: Open. Your. Eyes. Over-exposure to propaganda does damage the ability to see clearly. There are many angry, grieving Palestinians as a direct result of Israel's warmongering over the years, not just from this most recent incursion. They are justly angry at seeing their houses maliciously damaged, destroyed and even looted by the IDF. Their crops and income destroyed by insane settlers who are being protected by the IDF. Knowing of their children and family members in the UN's safe havens being killed by Israeli missiles, artillery and fletchette bombs. Watching their land being illegally appropriated for right-wing god-crazy settlers. Suffering egregious humiliations at the hands of the IDF and other Israeli institutions. And you suggest that they all get along just fine!

the "bond of humanity" that once existed between Jewish and Arab neighbours

Again, this is something which you postulate, based on second hand reports by suggested friends. While true in some cases, things were not generally as mellow and peaceful as that.

There isn't much love lost or good neighborly relationship between Israelis and Palestinians nowadays as well,

except, perhaps, for a few isolated cases.

Things are somewhat better, if far from good, when it comes to relationship between the Arab minority within Israel (which includes Muslim, Christian, Druze, Bedouin and a few smaller groups) and the Jewish Majority. This too, is very dependent on specific locations and, of course, not at its best during times when fighting erupts between Israel and the Palestinians.