Hat Yai: Co-pilot of budget airline passes out during flight and later dies

[muffy]

Could happen to any pilot , anytime on any airplane .

[CaptainB]

What a very strange comments that people will NOT fly Lion Air because a pilot dies on the flight deck. What does this have to do with Lion Air.

Having said this I am aware off certain short comings in Lion Air but things are improving fast. They are a huge airline now Malindo/Batik/wings/Lion Thai/Lion. They have their own flight school, training center and simulators. Right now Thai Lion is a much safer airline to fly on than Nok Air. Unfortunately I can not get into details here but lets put it nicely; Nok Air is not taking safety serious.

P2F; yes I am aware of this; Ryanair comes to mind and many other airlines in the world... So if a pilot is willing to pay to fly why Lion Air can take those guys too,

LOL sounds like you have vested interest in Lion AIr....

9 serious incidents in only the past 13 years! with 25 recorded fatalities.....

work that one out Captain..

In my first post I mentioned That Lion air did have their problems and has worked very hard to improve. It is very successful in this and currently under consideration to be removed from the EU blacklist. Many incidents in Indonesia are due to the extremely bad runway surfaces their which makes braking difficult. to improve air safety in Indonesia a massive investment is needed to bring runways to International standards (including those at CGK and DPS). And yes I have interest in Lion Air as aviation is my job!

[dagobert]

Oh well guess it was his time, Sad but completly natural, and as for the Bali incedent

no one can blame the run way the plane missed it and it went strait in the drink!

[n210mp]

I just hope that all pilots adhere to their medical check schedule.

If they didn't they would be excluded from duty!

It occurs to me that most of the negative posters on this thread should use brains before opening gob and spewing unjustified and maybe libelous rubbish

[khunbillmex]

Let's look on the bright side: Lucky it wasn't a bus!

[n210mp]

thanks God they have always two persons in the cockpit

Dream on if you think that there are always two pilots in the cockpit!

It would be helpful if you could backup your comment with some tangible or credible evidence.

Or are you a commercial Pilot that has broken the law and gone PIC under a commercial IFR flight?

[gchurch259]

Bagging Lion air? What about praising them for being able to land the plane safely while 50% of the landing team was having a heart attack at the controls?

In my small home town, a major industry is helicopters and fixed wing (smaller aircrafts). 20 years ago when I used to go out a lot I would always see pilots drunkingly sculling down their last pints and shots a few minutes before 10pm as they had to stick to the 8 hour dry before you fly rule as they all started flying at 6am. They were the people like the poster above who I would avoid.

What little I know about Lion I am not at liberty to discuss, But, a couple of things come to mind about this posting and the usual "Expert" Comments.

As a Retired USAF Flight Engineer the rule was "10 hours from bottle to throttle", I am sure most airlines have a similar rule. Problem is it is an honor system as airlines do not have "Drinking Rule Police". As a Crew we always looked out for each other, as an Examiner I needed to be aware of any potential violations.

Almost all of todays commercial aircraft can be flown by one pilot, since most do not have Flight Engineers and controls at his station.the one pilot could not reach. Yes, there is a reason that two pilots are required on commercial aircraft, Safety !!

As to P2F, I understand that even the best Air Force Fighter Pilot needs Mulitple Engine Time and Pilot in Command to obtain additional Ratings.

Happy Flying and in my opinion EVA is one of the Best Airlines I have had any dealing with in my 60 plus years of aircraft maintenance and management.

[CaptainB]

Oh well guess it was his time, Sad but completly natural, and as for the Bali incedent

no one can blame the run way the plane missed it and it went strait in the drink!

Just like the OZ incident at SFO. you can do training and training and training but human error remains a factor on ALL airlines. Didn't LH land on a runway that was still in progress of being build in Poland recently??

[yanyk]

.... and the dude died...don't let your ghost attack all these drunkards here on TV who don't know a shit about heart attack....just RIP

Edited August 21, 2014 by yanyk

[SOTIRIOS]

....with all of these epidemics.....I hope we will be told what he died from.....

[mike324]

Bagging Lion air? What about praising them for being able to land the plane safely while 50% of the landing team was having a heart attack at the controls?

In my small home town, a major industry is helicopters and fixed wing (smaller aircrafts). 20 years ago when I used to go out a lot I would always see pilots drunkingly sculling down their last pints and shots a few minutes before 10pm as they had to stick to the 8 hour dry before you fly rule as they all started flying at 6am. They were the people like the poster above who I would avoid.

What little I know about Lion I am not at liberty to discuss, But, a couple of things come to mind about this posting and the usual "Expert" Comments.

As a Retired USAF Flight Engineer the rule was "10 hours from bottle to throttle", I am sure most airlines have a similar rule. Problem is it is an honor system as airlines do not have "Drinking Rule Police". As a Crew we always looked out for each other, as an Examiner I needed to be aware of any potential violations.

Almost all of todays commercial aircraft can be flown by one pilot, since most do not have Flight Engineers and controls at his station.the one pilot could not reach. Yes, there is a reason that two pilots are required on commercial aircraft, Safety !!

As to P2F, I understand that even the best Air Force Fighter Pilot needs Mulitple Engine Time and Pilot in Command to obtain additional Ratings.

Happy Flying and in my opinion EVA is one of the Best Airlines I have had any dealing with in my 60 plus years of aircraft maintenance and management.

Just curious in what aspect do you consider EVA one of the best airlines? is that point of view from being in aircraft maintenance / management or passenger? What makes them one of the best?

[atyclb]

What a very strange comments that people will NOT fly Lion Air because a pilot dies on the flight deck. What does this have to do with Lion Air.

Having said this I am aware off certain short comings in Lion Air but things are improving fast. They are a huge airline now Malindo/Batik/wings/Lion Thai/Lion. They have their own flight school, training center and simulators. Right now Thai Lion is a much safer airline to fly on than Nok Air. Unfortunately I can not get into details here but lets put it nicely; Nok Air is not taking safety serious.

P2F; yes I am aware of this; Ryanair comes to mind and many other airlines in the world... So if a pilot is willing to pay to fly why Lion Air can take those guys too,

Agree completely. Astonishing how some so called"western educated" posters equate this incident with the quality of an airline. IMO since airasia fired non malay experienced pilots so they could replace them with newly graduated locals I'd say give Lion credit for choosing an experienced/higher salary copilot over an assembly line graduate. AA has their own pilot school hopefully for quality and not just quantity at a lower price.

[atyclb]

Bagging Lion air? What about praising them for being able to land the plane safely while 50% of the landing team was having a heart attack at the controls?

In my small home town, a major industry is helicopters and fixed wing (smaller aircrafts). 20 years ago when I used to go out a lot I would always see pilots drunkingly sculling down their last pints and shots a few minutes before 10pm as they had to stick to the 8 hour dry before you fly rule as they all started flying at 6am. They were the people like the poster above who I would avoid.

What little I know about Lion I am not at liberty to discuss, But, a couple of things come to mind about this posting and the usual "Expert" Comments.

As a Retired USAF Flight Engineer the rule was "10 hours from bottle to throttle", I am sure most airlines have a similar rule. Problem is it is an honor system as airlines do not have "Drinking Rule Police". As a Crew we always looked out for each other, as an Examiner I needed to be aware of any potential violations.

Almost all of todays commercial aircraft can be flown by one pilot, since most do not have Flight Engineers and controls at his station.the one pilot could not reach. Yes, there is a reason that two pilots are required on commercial aircraft, Safety !!

As to P2F, I understand that even the best Air Force Fighter Pilot needs Mulitple Engine Time and Pilot in Command to obtain additional Ratings.

Happy Flying and in my opinion EVA is one of the Best Airlines I have had any dealing with in my 60 plus years of aircraft maintenance and management.

that 10 hour rule has a fallacy in that if a person overdoes it even after 10 hours their cognitive/ motor abilities can still be impaired.

[tinhead]

Excellent airline - planes that fly from BKK to HDY are brand-new 737-900ERs which were delivered in November 2013.

[kimamey]

This was a very unfortunate incident and it has nothing to do with the quality of Lion Air : I have a good impression after having taken several of their flights in Thailand and in Indonesia.

how do you know it has nothing to do with Lion air?

Ok I'll bite. How might Lion Air be responsible for this death? As far as I know the cause of death isn't known although a heart attack has been mentioned which wouldn't be an uncommon occurrence. If you think that Lion Air might be responsible for this it's probably a criminal offence so I suggest you get on down to the police station right now.

Just a thought it might be the pilot put something in his coffee. Or maybe one of the flight crew. It might have been someone before he got on the plane possibly even something slow working given a few hours before. There's loads of possibilities for someone with a vivid imagination.

Or it might be this unfortunate man just died suddenly, from a heart attack maybe, and the plane was brought safely down by the pilot as would happen on most airlines.

[Nemesis7]

Can't believe all these silly comments over a persons death, hey it can happen to any one, any where regardless of what airline they fly or what aircraft they operate.

RIP.

[JonathanBP]

Lion Air failed their IATA safety tests and are not members, they are also on a list of airlines not allowed to fly within EU airspace owing to their safety record. There have also been a number of incidences in which pilots have been found to be under the influence of drugs. - I would never fly them, or any airline not IATA certified.

[CaptainB]

Lion Air failed their IATA safety tests and are not members, they are also on a list of airlines not allowed to fly within EU airspace owing to their safety record. There have also been a number of incidences in which pilots have been found to be under the influence of drugs. - I would never fly them, or any airline not IATA certified.

IATA airlines do have NOTHING to do about safety. Most Budget and LCC carriers are NOT members of IATA and this has once again NOTHING to do with safety. Ryanair, easyjet, air Asia etc etc etc etc are NOT members of IATA too.

As I said in my previous post LION air is in the progress of being removed from the EU blacklist; which is kind of a strange list anyway.

Lion air is NOT an excellent first class airline BUT Lion air is a large airline that faces a difficult operating environment (indonesia) and it fastly improving to be at one point in the future an Excellent first class airline.

[hobobo]

R.I.P. Peter. Condolences to family and friends

[CaptainB]

The Lion Group operates 153 aircraft today (about twice the size of TG) and has more than 200 planes on order. It does need some effective management to keep all this running smooth. so give them some credit. my condolences to family and friends.

And to all those that want to avoid LION AIR for their own interpretation of safety; I wish them safe flying on those airlines they consider safe.

[DekDaeng]

Two people in the cockpit? These days they are talking about zero people in the cockpit. About as dumb as driverless cars.

Wow. So what happens when one of them has a heart attack?

[axact]

What a very strange comments that people will NOT fly Lion Air because a pilot dies on the flight deck. What does this have to do with Lion Air.

Having said this I am aware off certain short comings in Lion Air but things are improving fast. They are a huge airline now Malindo/Batik/wings/Lion Thai/Lion. They have their own flight school, training center and simulators. Right now Thai Lion is a much safer airline to fly on than Nok Air. Unfortunately I can not get into details here but lets put it nicely; Nok Air is not taking safety serious.

P2F; yes I am aware of this; Ryanair comes to mind and many other airlines in the world... So if a pilot is willing to pay to fly why Lion Air can take those guys too,

LOL sounds like you have vested interest in Lion AIr....

9 serious incidents in only the past 13 years! with 25 recorded fatalities.....

work that one out Captain..

A much better record that Malaysia Airlines !

[csabo]

Two people in the cockpit? These days they are talking about zero people in the cockpit. About as dumb as driverless cars.

Why is it dumb? This story proves that human pilots can fail. Countless drone missions have been flown succussfully, with no risk to any pilot personnel at all. And for all the people who will "Never fly Lion, was this not a successful aversion of a potential disaster? The second pilot did as trained and landed the aircraft safely. I can show you evidence of failures by almost any airline or car manufacturer even. Does that mean you will walk everywhere now in your bubble of safety? More people die on bicyles every year than in airplanes so no bike either I guess huh? What a bunch of ridiculous cowards.

Edited August 21, 2014 by csabo

[Stuart21]

Oh well guess it was his time, Sad but completly natural, and as for the Bali incedent

no one can blame the run way the plane missed it and it went strait in the drink!

Just like the OZ incident at SFO. you can do training and training and training but human error remains a factor on ALL airlines. Didn't LH land on a runway that was still in progress of being build in Poland recently??

Even in America they land on the wrong runway or at the wrong airport occasionally.

Would like to see a prize for the first passenger to use Smartphone & GPS, & advise pilot e.g. 'Hey, St Louis is 55 miles north of here!!!'

[Loles]

Young man can collapse also, so don't think too much about pilot's age.

RIP flying Dutch man, continue your flights above the clouds where the sky always is blue.

This case didn't depend on the airlines is budget or high so, can be occurred any-where, any-time for any air company, This is the true life not an American movie.

Off course need some declamation words for the article ....

[Loles]

And something else:

The Ryanair (EU) had a plan to use flights with 1 pilot ...... Off course they can't, but they would. Crazy greedy people.

[Torrens54]

Hold on folks!

You can't blame Lion Air for this. The Co-pilot was only 41 years old, would have had all required health checks and just happened to die of a presumed HEART ATTACK..... thousands of people around the world do the same thing every day...without any warning.

I have no vested interest in LION AIR but come on, "fair suck of the Sav" (forgive the Aussie expression) but honestly, there is no way you can blame the carrier for this. The Skipper obviously did exactly what he should have done and all ended well...except for the poor Co-Pilot.

[CaptainB]

Hold on folks!

You can't blame Lion Air for this. The Co-pilot was only 41 years old, would have had all required health checks and just happened to die of a presumed HEART ATTACK..... thousands of people around the world do the same thing every day...without any warning.

I have no vested interest in LION AIR but come on, "fair suck of the Sav" (forgive the Aussie expression) but honestly, there is no way you can blame the carrier for this. The Skipper obviously did exactly what he should have done and all ended well...except for the poor Co-Pilot.

EXACTLY, this is more or less what I have been trying to say in all my previous posts today

[transam]

Anyone of us could have something go wrong in ones body causing pass-out at any time. We are not machines and we are not tested every day for a possible problem.

PS. One reason I never travel by bus/coach.

[fritzzz25]

And judging by the advertised recruitment on the Lion Air website, ex pats are taken on as captains. Their recruiting states that first officers and ab-initio are to be Indonesian citizens. Based on their ad, this pilot would be over 4000 hrs of pilot in command and in the left seat. The first officer obviously did what they were trained to do and land that bird alone, with the added stress of his partner incapacitated in his seat. I think for ANY pilot, this situation would be traumatic, but it shows that TRAINING kicked in and the man or woman at the controls in the right seat did what they practiced for.