Digital nomad, online workers.. Permission !

[ATF]

he doesnt violate the terms of his

neither do nomads who only visit here on tourist visas occasionally and work on their computers whilst here for a few days. care to continue this debate, if so present a more up to date and relevant argument kind sir

There is no problem with international businessmen entering Thailand on a Visa Exempt entry and catching up on overseas work online.

The law breakers are those who stay and work on Tourist or Exempt entries and work indefinitely.

[Soutpeel]

old codger, go and get your pulse checked, and also your testis whilst you are at it. My English grammar and diction is at how I want it to be thank you kind sir *cough* (check balls) You seem like the typical bitter TV poster who has fallen behind in technological terms and thus can only resort to minor insults that are like water off of a ducks back! Mung tam arai tii pa teth Thai? ya old codger

mate, ed visa, - English comprehension, I made no comment on your grammar or diction... I know you struggle expressing yourself in the English languge, but grammar, comprehension and diction are the not the same thing

not bitter in the least dear boy, just fed up reading posts from little turds who are full of self-entitlement thats all...

and why are you writing in phonetic/English/Thai sentences ? what are you doing ? trying to impress everyone that you are one with your Thainess ?... if you were really any good, you could write it properly in Thai without using google translate...

[monk213]

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I feel that I am continually repeating myself here.

What would be the argument to both immigration and labour that someone should be issued a visa because they are just starting out in the business and don't meet financial requirements that everyone else needs?

Why should someone be granted a visa because they are old and have a pension? Same rules apply, economy, money, financial gain, read a book or 2 if you have your glasses

The main difference that I can see is that one is abiding by the laws of the country and the other is trying to create one to suit their life style.

Of course, with the possibility that maybe, not guaranteed, that everything may turn out good one day.

Ever hear of that phrase 'supply and demand'? Well I am sure if there WAS a visa for these types it would be lapped up and the Thai economy would serve very well from the tax and general income. Do retired old farts pay tax?

[JLCrab]

Well I am sure if there WAS ... Thanks. As the old-time New Yorkers used to say: That and a subway token gets you a ride.

[Soutpeel]

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I feel that I am continually repeating myself here.

What would be the argument to both immigration and labour that someone should be issued a visa because they are just starting out in the business and don't meet financial requirements that everyone else needs?

Why should someone be granted a visa because they are old and have a pension? Same rules apply, economy, money, financial gain, read a book or 2 if you have your glasses

The main difference that I can see is that one is abiding by the laws of the country and the other is trying to create one to suit their life style.

Of course, with the possibility that maybe, not guaranteed, that everything may turn out good one day.

Ever hear of that phrase 'supply and demand'? Well I am sure if there WAS a visa for these types it would be lapped up and the Thai economy would serve very well from the tax and general income. Do retired old farts pay tax?

well lets put it this way, if there was demand from Thailands perspective, one suspects they would supply a suitable visa, and seeing as there is no supply one can conclude there is no demand.

[JockPieandBeans]

"I believe that governments require foreigners to have work permits to work locally because **_______________________________________**

The Thai's have seen the unmitigated disaster that the EU / USA have become by allowing all and sundry to arrive and settle.

They, sensibly, have said, we will allow some foreigners to come and live here, but will be strictly controlled. If you provide a service that Thailand wants and needs, we will issue you a WP.

Quite a simple concept.

[JLCrab]

I ain't taking your sucker punch that there is some ineptitude in a Royal Proclamation.

[Delphis]

"I believe that governments require foreigners to have work permits to work locally because **_______________________________________**

The Thai's have seen the unmitigated disaster that the EU / USA have become by allowing all and sundry to arrive and settle.

They, sensibly, have said, we will allow some foreigners to come and live here, but will be strictly controlled. If you provide a service that Thailand wants and needs, we will issue you a WP.

Quite a simple concept.

But you wouldn't need a PERMIT for something that Thailand "wants and needs," you see. A permit is designed to exclude categories of people, otherwise there is no utility in having one. Why would those categories be excluded?

[Delphis]

I ain't taking your sucker punch that there is some ineptitude in a Royal Proclamation.

No, you are the one who said that. Not me. I said that he obviously has a reason for requiring work permits.

[AYJAYDEE]

"I believe that governments require foreigners to have work permits to work locally because **_______________________________________**

The Thai's have seen the unmitigated disaster that the EU / USA have become by allowing all and sundry to arrive and settle.

They, sensibly, have said, we will allow some foreigners to come and live here, but will be strictly controlled. If you provide a service that Thailand wants and needs, we will issue you a WP.

Quite a simple concept.

But you wouldn't need a PERMIT for something that Thailand "wants and needs," you see. A permit is designed to exclude categories of people, otherwise there is no utility in having one. Why would those categories be excluded?

obviously because they are not wanted

[Mario2008]

2 posts removed. No need to involve His Majesty the King in this discussion.

[JLCrab]

I ain't taking your sucker punch that there is some ineptitude in a Royal Proclamation.

No, you are the one who said that. Not me. I said that he obviously has a reason for requiring work permits.

And whatever it is, that is the law until somebody changes it. As to why -- I don't care. I would only be interested in understanding how it might apply to me and it doesn't apply to me. I have a hard enough time sometimes understanding the why's and wherefore's as to what does apply to me.

Edited August 22, 2014 by JLCrab

[JockPieandBeans]

"I believe that governments require foreigners to have work permits to work locally because **_______________________________________**

The Thai's have seen the unmitigated disaster that the EU / USA have become by allowing all and sundry to arrive and settle.

They, sensibly, have said, we will allow some foreigners to come and live here, but will be strictly controlled. If you provide a service that Thailand wants and needs, we will issue you a WP.

Quite a simple concept.

But you wouldn't need a PERMIT for something that Thailand "wants and needs," you see. A permit is designed to exclude categories of people, otherwise there is no utility in having one. Why would those categories be excluded?

That would be for the Thai's to decide.

I see nothing wrong with controlling who you allow to reside in your Country by the issue of WP for individuals who provide a service that Thailand WANTS and NEEDS.

If the do not issue WP's for a service, that is because the Thai's have deemed that they DO NOT WANT OR NEED that service.

You are of course correct. Permits are designed to EXCLUDE certain CATEGORIES. Again, the Thai's have decided that they DO NOT WANT OR NEED those categories.

As already stated. It really is a simple concept.

[khunpa]

The general idea about laws, is that they should be simple to understand and follow.

The problem in Thailand is that laws are currently based on whatever the law-enforcer in a specific district decides is actual law. And the law is only valid until some other guy comes along and says that the other guy is wrong.

Despite all this law-enforcement stuff, Thailand is still the same. Its still corrupt and its still based on local laws and individual interpretations of what should be general law for the whole country.

Nothing has changed. It has just become more confusing and it will keep being like that, until the people enforcing the laws actually learn and understand the laws.

The current way of doing things, will not remove corruption. It will just open doors for more corruption, if nobody aligns and controls the so called law-enforcers.

Edited August 22, 2014 by khunpa

[Christie Paul]

Well, first, let's be clear I'm not applying this to me, just in the abstract. It's a chicken and egg situation. If someone has that aptitude, they will find a way, but there has to be a legal route for it. Anyway, a "self proclaimed digital nomad" is still a funnel of money into the country. Structures could be created for that to be an intermediate state, under certain circumstances, to funneling talent, knowledge and jobs into the country too. Not that I think that being only a funnel of money into a country...is a bad thing for that country

it would take more time and energy than its worth for the government to screen all these self proclaimed digital nomads for the required talent and knowledge.

According to their requirements - Lord Buddha wouldn't be able to stay and nor would a young Bill Gates.

[JLCrab]

I don't know about Lord Buddha but Bill Gates based upon his family's money would have probably had the 10 million baht for the extension of stay via investment before he got out of high school.

Edited August 22, 2014 by JLCrab

[Christie Paul]

I don't know about Lord Buddha but Bill Gates based upon his family's money would have probably had the 10 million baht for the extension of stay via investment before he got out of high school.

Dang... my comment busted for being facetious, but you know what I mean.

[Sirbergan]

Seriously what a load of twaddle only in your own mind can a location independent income be linked to a pre disposition to "drugs" and "law breaking". No one cares about your opinion, where you may or may not have urinated or what qualifications you have. Thailand is a nice place to stay so it's hardly surprising that people will choose to reside here so quite simply mind your own business.

I suspect we need to get off his lawn right now

"qualifications" " specialized fields" are clearly not determining aspects of modern digital entrepreneurship.. The ability to be creative, think outside the box, build a better mousetrap.. All are.

A few million people in the translation business would disagree with you.

[AYJAYDEE]

Well, first, let's be clear I'm not applying this to me, just in the abstract. It's a chicken and egg situation. If someone has that aptitude, they will find a way, but there has to be a legal route for it. Anyway, a "self proclaimed digital nomad" is still a funnel of money into the country. Structures could be created for that to be an intermediate state, under certain circumstances, to funneling talent, knowledge and jobs into the country too. Not that I think that being only a funnel of money into a country...is a bad thing for that country

it would take more time and energy than its worth for the government to screen all these self proclaimed digital nomads for the required talent and knowledge.

According to their requirements - Lord Buddha wouldn't be able to stay and nor would a young Bill Gates.

you really should do some research:

2.13 In the case of studying Buddhism or practicing religious activities:

Each permission shall be granted

for no more than one year.

1. Application form

2. Copy of applicant’s passport

3. Confirmation letter from the National Office of Buddhism, Office of the Prime Minister, Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya University, Mahamakut Buddhist University, or other educational

institutions for monks

4. Confirmation letter from the abbot of the temple where the applicant is studying Buddhism or practicing religious activities

as for no Bill Gates, by the same token no Ted Bundy either.

[Sirbergan]

I know half of you guys has seen nothing but your own intestines for a decade or two, but you should try pull your heads out from time to time. There's a whole new world out there!

'nuff BS said

[Delphis]

"I believe that governments require foreigners to have work permits to work locally because **_______________________________________**

The Thai's have seen the unmitigated disaster that the EU / USA have become by allowing all and sundry to arrive and settle.

They, sensibly, have said, we will allow some foreigners to come and live here, but will be strictly controlled. If you provide a service that Thailand wants and needs, we will issue you a WP.

Quite a simple concept.

But you wouldn't need a PERMIT for something that Thailand "wants and needs," you see. A permit is designed to exclude categories of people, otherwise there is no utility in having one. Why would those categories be excluded?

That would be for the Thai's to decide.

I see nothing wrong with controlling who you allow to reside in your Country by the issue of WP for individuals who provide a service that Thailand WANTS and NEEDS.

If the do not issue WP's for a service, that is because the Thai's have deemed that they DO NOT WANT OR NEED that service.

You are of course correct. Permits are designed to EXCLUDE certain CATEGORIES. Again, the Thai's have decided that they DO NOT WANT OR NEED those categories.

As already stated. It really is a simple concept.

Yes, but the question I was trying to draw attention to is why countries do this. And THAT...is a really simple concept.

[robblok]

I'm just interested in the reason people here imagine that work permits exist. There have been claims on this thread that such permits aren't rewarded or refused on the basis of taking jobs away from Thais, and that this is simply an abstract or invented construct.

So I am genuinely curious. For those who believe that, please state in your own words, using defined concepts, why you think foreigners are required to have work permits. You might follow a template like this...

"I believe that governments require foreigners to have work permits to work locally because **_______________________________________**

Best of luck with your entries

This is the whole point work permits are there so ppl dont take jobs from Thais.

Why else the requirement of the thai foreigner ratio when issuing work permits.

The official might have gone against the letter of the law but is in line with the intention / spirit of the law digital nomads dont take jobs from thais as their clients are not in Thailand.

It would be smart for Thailand to really make this official and get taxes on it. They pump money into the country. Of course many older guy wont like it as they then have to compete with the younger money making guys for girls. They want Thailand as their playground.

[AYJAYDEE]

Yes, but the question I was trying to draw attention to is why countries do this. And THAT...is a really simple concept.

because they have decided that the cost/benefit ratio is too high

[Soutpeel]

I know half of you guys has seen nothing but your own intestines for a decade or two, but you should try pull your heads out from time to time. There's a whole new world out there!

'nuff BS said

How do you know this for a fact ?, do you go around looking at gentlemen's bottoms ?

[Sirbergan]

I'm just interested in the reason people here imagine that work permits exist. There have been claims on this thread that such permits aren't rewarded or refused on the basis of taking jobs away from Thais, and that this is simply an abstract or invented construct.

So I am genuinely curious. For those who believe that, please state in your own words, using defined concepts, why you think foreigners are required to have work permits. You might follow a template like this...

"I believe that governments require foreigners to have work permits to work locally because **_______________________________________**

Best of luck with your entries

This is the whole point work permits are there so ppl dont take jobs from Thais.

Why else the requirement of the thai foreigner ratio when issuing work permits.

The official might have gone against the letter of the law but is in line with the intention / spirit of the law digital nomads dont take jobs from thais as their clients are not in Thailand.

It would be smart for Thailand to really make this official and get taxes on it. They pump money into the country. Of course many older guy wont like it as they then have to compete with the younger money making guys for girls. They want Thailand as their playground.

Running a small translation agency specializing in English and Scandinavian languages (with only clients abroad) I couldn't agree more. We would've hired several in-house translators by now had it not been for the fact that we'd need 4 Thai employees for each foreign national with a work permit.

For us, the work permit rules are simply inhibiting us from growing. If we expand we'll need an ant hive of Thai employees playing iPhone or computer games, as well as moving into bigger and more expensive locales.

But hey, we could always hire a lot of Thai nationals using Google translate, I'm sure the quality would keep our client base thrilled.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sirbergan

[Sirbergan]

Double post, please delete.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sirbergan

[impulse]

can you please explain for me how anybody participating in any of the above examples will be contributing to Thailand?

Are you being serious? They live in Thailand, ok, following so far? They have custom from across the world via the internetz, often Western who pay them money AKA currency. They then go out and dispose of said currency into the economy, the money has come from abroad and was used to buy a service online, and ends up in the hands of the Thai's, khao jai na krup?

Velocity of money - even when earned from the local pool, contributes to the economy. It is in fact the biggest contributor for the economic well being of its citizens. If you closed all the shops, stopped all the services and prevented anyone from working -the amount of money would be the same - but poverty would ensure because velocity would plummet. A unit of currency would not serve anyones needs. But the more economic activity, the more currency serves, as the more hands it passes through.

Money coming from abroad is an added bonus.

True, but try settling down in the west and telling the revenue department that you contribute so much to the speed of money that you should be exempt from taxes.

Go on a holiday, sure. Bring your laptop. Answer your emails, trade some stocks, write some code, update your well affiliated website, or write a book. No problem, just like Thailand.

But stay a couple of years, buy or rent a condo, a car and a scooter, get a local DL, show a bunch of incoming money and see how long before the tax man comes calling- no matter where the income originates. The controversy here isn't that you can do all that stuff on a tourist visa. That only makes sense in an age when everyone is tethered to the office- even on holiday. The controversy comes along when long stay digital nomads extrapolate that to permission to continue doing it long after they're no longer genuine tourists.

For the digital warriors lamenting that the immigration, employment and tax laws haven't caught up with the 21st century, be careful what you wish for. Someday, a company (probably named GoogleSoft) will partner up with an alliance of 150 nations' taxing entities and be able to track your IP for each keystroke where you generate your income, and your bank account will automatically be debited to pay taxes in every country where you wrote a few lines of code, or traded a few shares of stock.

Edited August 22, 2014 by impulse

[Sirbergan]

can you please explain for me how anybody participating in any of the above examples will be contributing to Thailand?

Are you being serious? They live in Thailand, ok, following so far? They have custom from across the world via the internetz, often Western who pay them money AKA currency. They then go out and dispose of said currency into the economy, the money has come from abroad and was used to buy a service online, and ends up in the hands of the Thai's, khao jai na krup?

Velocity of money - even when earned from the local pool, contributes to the economy. It is in fact the biggest contributor for the economic well being of its citizens. If you closed all the shops, stopped all the services and prevented anyone from working -the amount of money would be the same - but poverty would ensure because velocity would plummet. A unit of currency would not serve anyones needs. But the more economic activity, the more currency serves, as the more hands it passes through.

Money coming from abroad is an added bonus.

True, but try settling down in the west and telling the revenue department that you contribute so much to the speed of money that you should be exempt from taxes.

Go on a holiday, sure. Bring your laptop. Answer your emails, trade some stocks, write some code, update your well affiliated website, or write a book. No problem, just like Thailand.

But stay a couple of years, buy or rent a condo, a car and a scooter, get a local DL, show a bunch of incoming money and see how long before the tax man comes calling- no matter where the income originates. The controversy here isn't that you can do all that stuff on a tourist visa. That only makes sense in an age when everyone is tethered to the office- even on holiday. The controversy comes along when long stay digital nomads extrapolate that to permission to continue doing it long after they're no longer genuine tourists.

For the digital warriors lamenting that the immigration, employment and tax laws haven't caught up with the 21st century, be careful what you wish for. Someday, a company (probably named GoogleSoft) will partner up with an alliance of 150 nations' taxing entities and be able to track your IP for each keystroke where you generate your income, and your bank account will automatically be debited to pay taxes in every country where you wrote a few lines of code, or traded a few shares of stock.

The problem is that there is no system in place in the LOS for people who actually want to pay taxes. Googlesoft sounds like a brilliant idea, I'd welcome it!

[Sirbergan]

I know half of you guys has seen nothing but your own intestines for a decade or two, but you should try pull your heads out from time to time. There's a whole new world out there!

'nuff BS said

How do you know this for a fact ?, do you go around looking at gentlemen's bottoms ?

Indeed I do. It's not as easy as it sounds though, half of the time the damn bar stool is in the way.

[ATF]

The problem is that there is no system in place in the LOS for people who actually want to pay taxes. Googlesoft sounds like a brilliant idea, I'd welcome it!

Why can't you guys understand you can open your own IT company. That's what Thailand wants.

You cannot work as a plumber here but you can open your own plumbing company. Same Same.