1400 children sexually exploited in UK town Rotherham: report

[H1w4yR1da]

When you have failed to find one, will you finally apologise for the false accusation?

That's grand. Coming from someone who spouts terms of endearment such as 'bigot', 'racist', 'Islamophobe' etc at anyone daring to disagree.

[JockPieandBeans]

Look in the World News Forum, threads on these and similar cases have been around for some time; but you have obviously ignored them as they don't fit your politics.

"Your kind?" Obvious; ignorant bigots who use the suffering of children to advance their own political agenda that all Muslims are terrorists, or supporters of terrorism; all Muslim men are child rapists, all Muslims want to impose strict Sharia law upon us and all the other <deleted> you and your kind regularly post.

See? I can make ignorant accusations as well as being on the receiving end of them!

I will repeat, point them out, and if I have not already commented then I will. We have already been around the block with that one. They currently do not exist or are closed. At least since I joined the forum.

But I will say this. Take a good long hard look in the mirror. Your hypocrisy is outstanding as I pointed out yesterday, in a direct reply to your post, and it was deleted twice.

As I have pointed out, and will do so again, just for you. I have no political agenda. Does commenting on illegal activities taking place in the UK make me a bigot ? By addressing me as such, makes you out to be the bigot.

[Scott]

There are a lot of personal comments being made directed at other posters and they are not very complimentary and they are NOT on topic. Perhaps suspensions will settle things down?

[JockPieandBeans]

The BBC have got out their 'Asian' word again, this time in my home city, which is as enriched as Bradford in some places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-31778850

How many TV members and the general UK population, upon reading this headline in the UK national newspapers, automatically assumed that the perpetrator was Pakistani Muslim? And if they did,Why?

Me.

In the PC, liberal, tree hugging monstrosity that the UK has become. The word '' Asian '' has become the norm for '' Pakistani Muslim ''

So, whenever you see or read about an Asian police officer, you assume they are a Pakistani Muslim?

Ditto for Asian members of the other emergency services, the armed forces, Asian doctors, nurses, entrepreneurs, sports people, etc., etc.?

If so, then you must admit that Pakistani Muslims make an enormous contribution to the UK!

The man has been described as Asian because he is Asian, at present his religion is unknown.

Tell me, how would speculating on his religion aide in his capture?

My response was to an horrific sexual assault that has now been amended to an attempted murder enquiry due to the horrific injuries that were inflicted on this poor lady.

It had nothing to with Policemen, Doctors or anyone else.

There are many races that come under the banner of '' Asian '' under the thread topic those that are categorised as '' Asian '' are coming from one part of Asia, that would be the part that is called Pakistan. Where I am sure you are aware is something like 97% Muslim.

It is also worthy of note, that not one word of condemnation about this very serious assault from you. Only an outcry of indignation that anyone would dare to possibly think that it was carried out by a Muslim of Pakistani heritage.

Edited March 8, 2015 by JockPieandBeans

[KarenBravo]

Perhaps suspensions will settle things down?

Oh, please no.....

[Mosha]

The BBC have got out their 'Asian' word again, this time in my home city, which is as enriched as Bradford in some places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-31778850

How many TV members and the general UK population, upon reading this headline in the UK national newspapers, automatically assumed that the perpetrator was Pakistani Muslim? And if they did,Why?

Me.

In the PC, liberal, tree hugging monstrosity that the UK has become. The word '' Asian '' has become the norm for '' Pakistani Muslim ''

So, whenever you see or read about an Asian police officer, you assume they are a Pakistani Muslim?

Ditto for Asian members of the other emergency services, the armed forces, Asian doctors, nurses, entrepreneurs, sports people, etc., etc.?

If so, then you must admit that Pakistani Muslims make an enormous contribution to the UK!

The man has been described as Asian because he is Asian, at present his religion is unknown.

Tell me, how would speculating on his religion aide in his capture?

Well that Pakistani muslim copper in Rorgerham made an heck of an impact with the girls he was duty bound to protect didn't he. Thankfully he can't do that any more.

[samran]

Oh, please no.....

...and shut down the modern day collusium of liberal lions vs keyboard warriors

Edited March 8, 2015 by samran

[JockPieandBeans]

Oh, please no.....

...and shut down the modern day collusium of liberal lions vs keyboard warriors

Nothing to say about the actual topic as per usual.

Did you mean Colosseum or Coliseum ? The word you tried to use does not exist.

I blame the schools.

Confucius said '' It is better to remain silent.......... I'm sure you know the rest.

[Bangkok Herps]

Maybe the actual answer is that poor people commit sexual assaults more frequently, and there are just more Muslims who happen to be poor. Maybe the actual answer is that young men commit sexual assaults more frequently, and Muslims are more represented about younger men than older. Maybe the actual answer is, like you say, that Asians are more likely to commit sexual assault regardless of religion, and Muslims are more highly represented among Asians?

Maybe this, maybe that.

Just a futile exercise in deflection again.

'"Once again, you haven't factored in any possible correlating variables, haven't shown the slightest sense that there's a meaningful correlation to this variable and not just a shared correlation to another variable."

What on earth are you talking about?

'correlating variables' blah blah. Do you really talk like that?

As always, trying to take the onus off Islam, when everyone can see that's the main factor in these crimes.

Yet again, you selectively quoted my words to distort their intent. That's against board rules, right? I said that all three of those "maybe" statements were likely true, but you cut that out.

You think it's okay to state unproven conjecture as fact, but criticize me for using the "maybe".

And yes, because I was trained as a scientist and understand statistics, I know what "correlating variables" are and I can talk like that if I need to. How can you possibly claim, "everyone can see that's the main factor" when you prove right here that you have no idea how to even identify a factor separate from other factors?

Why do you mock me for using the correct vocabulary and knowing what I'm talking about?

[samran]

Oh, please no.....

...and shut down the modern day collusium of liberal lions vs keyboard warriors

Nothing to say about the actual topic as per usual.

Did you mean Colosseum or Coliseum ? The word you tried to use does not exist.

I blame the schools.

Confucius said '' It is better to remain silent.......... I'm sure you know the rest.

My stalker is back! Never too far away...

Being on topic died on this thread long ago my dear cardigan wearing gladiator.

Bit rich of you chastising others for getting things wrong. Or should I remind the dear readers of your absolute howlers?

Edited March 8, 2015 by samran

[Bangkok Herps]

I checked google like you suggested, and quickly found this data for England and Wales:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/214970/sexual-offending-overview-jan-2013.pdf

It looks like the biggest risk factor in offending is maleness. Over 98% of offenders were male, more than twice their representation in the population. We should be doing everything we can to address this clear wave of sexual assault among the ugly male culture in Britain. Starting with White male culture, of course, because they were the largest offending group.*

* I realized that I should post a "satire alert" for those who aren't sensitive to such things.

The data that you found was for sexual offences committed in the UK.

As I said before, I would expect the highest number of perps in the UK to be white.

Try looking for stats on grooming gangs. Which is the essence of the thread.

Here is a report from 2012, before the vast majority of the cases highlighted in this thread were in the public domain.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/08/asian-sex-gangs-on-street-grooming

YOU were the on who told me to focus on numbers for sexual assaults in the UK!!! You were the one who called out for all sexual assaults, not me. When I proved you wrong, you moved the goalposts...unsurprisingly.

Now you're focusing on one particular modus operandi of sexual assault, and your proof is very weak, as I'll show below from your own link. But even if your proof was correct, what's the point of proving that people from one culture use a different method than people from another culture? There's still people from every culture sexually assaulting children, and the children are still abused no matter what the methodology is.

If I turned your numbers around and showed that the average White British sex offender was abusing a younger child than the average Pakistani British sex offender, would that prove that White culture was more evil because it led to the abuse of younger and more vulnerable children?

If I proved that White Brits in Thailand were far more likely than native Thai men in Thailand to travel specifically for the purpose of committing serial sexual abuse, to pay money for child sexual abuse, and to include physical abuse in their sexual abuse, what would that now prove above Brits?

Would it prove that British culture was corrupt and evil in comparison to Thai culture?

Or would it just show that the particular factors in this situation lead to a disproportionate but small overall % of British men committing a certain kind of evil act in this particular case, while saying nothing about British culture across the rest of the world or the vast majority of British men who don't touch children when they're in Thailand?

And if that's true, if the British abusers in Thailand do not represent the other Brits in Thailand and do not reflect on overall British culture, why wouldn't the same thing be true regarding a tiny % of Muslims in England? (a few dozen men out of one million Pakistani-origin Brits)

Now, for your source. First off, you ignored the very first line of your own source:

Despite the conviction of nine Asian men for child exploitation in Rochdale and worrying signs in the statistics, racial profiling won't help potential victims

On top of that, they don't know the numbers yet at all. The 46% was only 46% of 1/3 of the data of one type of offense - in other worlds, approximately 15%, and only 15% of that type of assault alone. They didn't have the other two-thirds of the data at all. So you're making a bogus claim when 1/3 of the data isn't even available. The 83% was cherry-picked - it was only 83% of five investigations involving 52 men - in other words, about 45 offenders out of the thousands of men who commit sexual assault in the UK every year.

Also from your own link:

The current obsession with "Asian sex gangs" focuses too narrowly on one dimension to this crime, making the emergent profile of the "Pakistani groomer" misleading. It is also unhelpful: there are more than 1 million Pakistanis in Britain. Are we going to order surveillance on all the adult males, take their fingerprints, get their DNA profiles? After all, a tiny minority may be abusing children. Racial profiles are notoriously problematic. Their application raises serious ethical issues and risks isolating the non-deviant majority. Ask anyone with an Arabic-sounding name "randomly" selected for extra searches by US airport security. Not always that accurate in the first place, these profiles are also liable to change, and quickly.

It goes on to say that the data is patchy and incomplete, as well as the fact that there may be other important factors that we haven't considered due to the lack of data.

And that's your big link that you could come up with.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[Mosha]

Oh, please no.....

...and shut down the modern day collusium of liberal lions vs keyboard warriors

Nothing to say about the actual topic as per usual.

Did you mean Colosseum or Coliseum ? The word you tried to use does not exist.

I blame the schools.

Confucius said '' It is better to remain silent.......... I'm sure you know the rest.

My stalker is back! Never too far away...

Being on topic died on this thread long ago my dear cardigan wearing gladiator.

Bit rich of you chastising others for getting things wrong. Or should I remind the dear readers of your absolute howlers?

Perhaps if you took notice of the native Tykes, you would do better. There are a few in this topic. I'm one.

[H1w4yR1da]

My stalker is back! Never too far away...

It's ok Jock. He said this about me the last time.

Seems to be a stock reply to any who dare to disagree with him.

[JockPieandBeans]

.

The data that you found was for sexual offences committed in the UK.

As I said before, I would expect the highest number of perps in the UK to be white.

Try looking for stats on grooming gangs. Which is the essence of the thread.

Here is a report from 2012, before the vast majority of the cases highlighted in this thread were in the public domain.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/08/asian-sex-gangs-on-street-grooming

YOU were the on who told me to focus on numbers for sexual assaults in the UK!!! You were the one who called out for all sexual assaults, not me. When I proved you wrong, you moved the goalposts...unsurprisingly.

Now you're focusing on one particular modus operandi of sexual assault, and your proof is very weak, as I'll show below from your own link. But even if your proof was correct, what's the point of proving that people from one culture use a different method than people from another culture? There's still people from every culture sexually assaulting children, and the children are still abused no matter what the methodology is.

If I turned your numbers around and showed that the average White British sex offender was abusing a younger child than the average Pakistani British sex offender, would that prove that White culture was more evil because it led to the abuse of younger and more vulnerable children?

If I proved that White Brits in Thailand were far more likely than native Thai men in Thailand to travel specifically for the purpose of committing serial sexual abuse, to pay money for child sexual abuse, and to include physical abuse in their sexual abuse, what would that now prove above Brits?

Would it prove that British culture was corrupt and evil in comparison to Thai culture?

Or would it just show that the particular factors in this situation lead to a disproportionate but small overall % of British men committing a certain kind of evil act in this particular case, while saying nothing about British culture across the rest of the world or the vast majority of British men who don't touch children when they're in Thailand?

And if that's true, if the British abusers in Thailand do not represent the other Brits in Thailand and do not reflect on overall British culture, why wouldn't the same thing be true regarding a tiny % of Muslims in England? (a few dozen men out of one million Pakistani-origin Brits)

Now, for your source. First off, you ignored the very first line of your own source:

Despite the conviction of nine Asian men for child exploitation in Rochdale and worrying signs in the statistics, racial profiling won't help potential victims

On top of that, they don't know the numbers yet at all. The 46% was only 46% of 1/3 of the data of one type of offense - in other worlds, approximately 15%, and only 15% of that type of assault alone. They didn't have the other two-thirds of the data at all. So you're making a bogus claim when 1/3 of the data isn't even available. The 83% was cherry-picked - it was only 83% of five investigations involving 52 men - in other words, about 45 offenders out of the thousands of men who commit sexual assault in the UK every year.

Also from your own link:

The current obsession with "Asian sex gangs" focuses too narrowly on one dimension to this crime, making the emergent profile of the "Pakistani groomer" misleading. It is also unhelpful: there are more than 1 million Pakistanis in Britain. Are we going to order surveillance on all the adult males, take their fingerprints, get their DNA profiles? After all, a tiny minority may be abusing children. Racial profiles are notoriously problematic. Their application raises serious ethical issues and risks isolating the non-deviant majority. Ask anyone with an Arabic-sounding name "randomly" selected for extra searches by US airport security. Not always that accurate in the first place, these profiles are also liable to change, and quickly.

It goes on to say that the data is patchy and incomplete, as well as the fact that there may be other important factors that we haven't considered due to the lack of data.

And that's your big link that you could come up with.

Everyone knows that the data is incomplete. Sexual assaults by the mainly Pakistani grooming gangs have been covered up in the UK for nearly 2 decades.

I did not realize that you were a child and needed to be taken by the hand and guided. The topic is about Grooming Gangs after all.

The data analysed 5 cases. There is over 100+ active investigations ongoing as a direct result of Rotherham.

Whatever data that you wish to use is skewed due to the actions of various Authorities over the last 20 years.

It has all already been highlighted previously in the thread.

You have a good night now.

[JockPieandBeans]

My stalker is back! Never too far away...

It's ok Jock. He said this about me the last time.

Seems to be a stock reply to any who dare to disagree with him.

The day I worry about someone who threatens to '' do me '' for slander, is the day I will end it all.

[H1w4yR1da]

I found these quotes from Jock's link particularly telling.

"All nine of those found guilty of crimes in the area of Rochdale, Greater Manchester, had conspicuously Asian names."

" Of these, 49% were white and 46% Asian: the proportion of Pakistani Asians remains unknown. However, in a country where Asians constitute 7% of the general population, this is a striking figure."

"Of the 52 suspects charged, 83% were Asian Pakistani, 11% Asian other and 6% white British. These are shocking statistics and the over-representation of Asian offenders within this dataset certainly merits attention."

[JockPieandBeans]

I found these quotes from Jock's link particularly telling.

"All nine of those found guilty of crimes in the area of Rochdale, Greater Manchester, had conspicuously Asian names."

" Of these, 49% were white and 46% Asian: the proportion of Pakistani Asians remains unknown. However, in a country where Asians constitute 7% of the general population, this is a striking figure."

"Of the 52 suspects charged, 83% were Asian Pakistani, 11% Asian other and 6% white British. These are shocking statistics and the over-representation of Asian offenders within this dataset certainly merits attention."

Of course they are telling. That is why some completely ignore them, others shout about changing the goalposts and others claim those figures come from anti Muslim websites.

[samran]

My stalker is back! Never too far away...

It's ok Jock. He said this about me the last time.

Seems to be a stock reply to any who dare to disagree with him.

While we await you to undertake your modern day crusade down Ratchadamnoen Nok, be careful you don't run over certain members of the board who are kumbaya singers by day.

[JockPieandBeans]

BBC Today

A child protection charity has said difficult questions about the ethnicity of perpetrators of child sex abuse in Oxford need to be addressed.

The comments by the Lucy Faithfull Foundation come after a serious case review found errors in the handling of reports of abuse by the authorities.

Wait for it

A significant number of perpetrators were of Muslim or Pakistani heritage

This is what an Imam had to say apparently.

Imam Monowar Hussain said it was "horrible and horrific" that Islam had been associated with the abuse.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-31788338

It appears that nothing was said condemning the perps, only an outcry of indignation that it had been associated with Islam.

I am absolutely positive I said the exact same thing in post 1038

[JockPieandBeans]

And in yet another report on the religion of Peace, Love and tolerance

The police have organised a woman's workshop in a Mosque.

One of the attendees echoed other women's feelings: "By holding it in a mosque women feel safe to come out and talk about domestic abuse because they feel they're not going against their religion

According to the national charity, Women's Aid, two women a week on average are killed by a current or former male partner and one incident of domestic violence is reported every minute.

But these figures don't reflect the number of victims from a Pakistani, Indian or Bangladeshi background, Ch Insp Chaudhri said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31787354

An average of 2 deaths a week and an incident of domestic violence every minute. This is not backwater Pakistan, India or Bangladesh. This is happening in the UK.

When the pin is pulled from the ticking bomb that is sexual assaults within the Muslim community, it will be beyond most normal peoples comprehension.

Edited March 8, 2015 by JockPieandBeans

[Bangkok Herps]

I found these quotes from Jock's link particularly telling.

"All nine of those found guilty of crimes in the area of Rochdale, Greater Manchester, had conspicuously Asian names."

" Of these, 49% were white and 46% Asian: the proportion of Pakistani Asians remains unknown. However, in a country where Asians constitute 7% of the general population, this is a striking figure."

"Of the 52 suspects charged, 83% were Asian Pakistani, 11% Asian other and 6% white British. These are shocking statistics and the over-representation of Asian offenders within this dataset certainly merits attention."

I'm definitely done here. When people mock others for actually knowing what they're talking about, are only arguing to promote their hateful agenda, and just keep repeating the same cherry-picked talking points even when proven that even the source they're pulling those points from doesn't agree with them, what's the point of saying anything?

People who want to have a discussion have seen the evidence. People who want to remain in ignorance and hate no matter what anyone else says will continue to do so.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[nontabury]

Can 7x7 or any of the other apologist for these Muslim scum provide us with a list of how the influx of these Muslims have benefited the UK.

I await your replies.

Yet again you call me an apologist for child abusers.

So, yet again, I ask you to provide a link to one, just one, post or comment I have made which could in any way be considered an apology for child abusers.

When you have failed to find one, will you finally apologise for the false accusation?

Or are you someone who believes that repeating the lie often enough will make it the truth?

By 'these Muslims' do you mean the vast majority who are law abiding citizens, work in all sectors, public and private, pay their taxes and contribute to the UK in the same way as any other citizen?

Like the people on this list?

Note that list includes a section on Militants; but even you can see that those who have made a positive contribution to the UK are far, far more numerous.

A positive contribution to the UK, is this the best you can come up with.

Quite a few media people and journalist, including those with the BBC, so no surprise there.

Law and Justice, again solicitors and Labour councillors.

Literature & Arts, including the winner of the 1997 Golden Turban award from the magic academy of Bangalore, strangely no mention of Salman Rusdie.

Military & police, a couple of high ranking cops, not sure if they were part of the cover up.

MP's with the exception of two,all Labour members. Surprise,surprise.

Peers, including Nazie Ahmed ( Baron Ahmed) who was brought up in ROTHERHAM, Labour of course. Caused an uproar a couple of years back, when instead of condemning his fellow Pakistani Muslims in Rotherham, made some very strong anti-Semitic remarks.

Quite a few Mayors, labour again.

You even listed some of the well known high profile football players, representing Portmadog FC, Farley Celtic FC, Buckingham town FC and others

of the same quality who represented Pakistan at football.

I think 7x7 you would have been better off mentioning the waiters in you local currie restaurant. We all know that the vast majority of Muslim men were not involved in these sickening crimes, yet there is a feeling in the general population that the majority of Muslims have not come out strongly in condemning the action of those, who have So Far have been convicted.

You did in fairness mention those Muslims who have been convicted of terrorist offenses, and therefore it's only fair to mention that One British Muslim soldier gave up his life fighting Muslim fanatics in Afganistan. If we only had more Muslims standing up to these fanatics and child abusers, then maybe the rest of the population would look more favorable upon the Muslim community.

[simple1]

Can 7x7 or any of the other apologist for these Muslim scum provide us with a list of how the influx of these Muslims have benefited the UK.

I await your replies.

Yet again you call me an apologist for child abusers.

So, yet again, I ask you to provide a link to one, just one, post or comment I have made which could in any way be considered an apology for child abusers.

When you have failed to find one, will you finally apologise for the false accusation?

Or are you someone who believes that repeating the lie often enough will make it the truth?

By 'these Muslims' do you mean the vast majority who are law abiding citizens, work in all sectors, public and private, pay their taxes and contribute to the UK in the same way as any other citizen?

Like the people on this list?

Note that list includes a section on Militants; but even you can see that those who have made a positive contribution to the UK are far, far more numerous.

A positive contribution to the UK, is this the best you can come up with.

Quite a few media people and journalist, including those with the BBC, so no surprise there.

Law and Justice, again solicitors and Labour councillors.

Literature & Arts, including the winner of the 1997 Golden Turban award from the magic academy of Bangalore, strangely no mention of Salman Rusdie.

Military & police, a couple of high ranking cops, not sure if they were part of the cover up.

MP's with the exception of two,all Labour members. Surprise,surprise.

Peers, including Nazie Ahmed ( Baron Ahmed) who was brought up in ROTHERHAM, Labour of course. Caused an uproar a couple of years back, when instead of condemning his fellow Pakistani Muslims in Rotherham, made some very strong anti-Semitic remarks.

Quite a few Mayors, labour again.

You even listed some of the well known high profile football players, representing Portmadog FC, Farley Celtic FC, Buckingham town FC and others

of the same quality who represented Pakistan at football.

I think 7x7 you would have been better off mentioning the waiters in you local currie restaurant. We all know that the vast majority of Muslim men were not involved in these sickening crimes, yet there is a feeling in the general population that the majority of Muslims have not come out strongly in condemning the action of those, who have So Far have been convicted.

You did in fairness mention those Muslims who have been convicted of terrorist offenses, and therefore it's only fair to mention that One British Muslim soldier gave up his life fighting Muslim fanatics in Afganistan. If we only had more Muslims standing up to these fanatics and child abusers, then maybe the rest of the population would look more favorable upon the Muslim community.

Every opportunity is taken to denigrate those of the UK Muslim community, even those who are listed as acheivers in the 'professions' on Wiki and people wonder why there is a disconnect with some in the Muslim community.

In the UK armed forces there are around around 650 Muslims in the 200,000-strong military making up less than 1 per cent of its ratio strength. In society as a whole, they comprise 4.8 per cent of the general population. Got to say if I were a UK Muslim I would hesitate on joining up with the apparent level of descrimination within UK society.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/muslims-in-the-armed-forces-a-proud-tradition-9226715.html

Good to see your comment "We all know that the vast majority of Muslim men were not involved in these sickening crimes".

Why were so many UK whites victims of opportunity. It seems to me that many of the victims in Rotherham lived in very dysfunctional environments. From the Rotherham report it tells us 55% of such children had used heroin at least once per week. 40% had been raped, but 73% had sexual health problems. It seems clear that in the overall context of the child sex abuse scandals in the UK there is a side of UK life that is under reported / not debated.

[JockPieandBeans]

Simple 1

In the UK armed forces there are around around 650 Muslims in the 200,000-strong military making up less than 1 per cent of its ratio strength. In society as a whole, they comprise 4.8 per cent of the general population. Got to say if I were a UK Muslim I would hesitate on joining up with the apparent level of descrimination within UK society.

Discrimination is a 2 way street. To take your analogy of Muslims joining the ranks of the UK Military, currently around 650. More than 900 have left the UK to join the ranks of ISIS in less than a year. As a comparison, does that mean that more UK Muslims think more about ISIS than they do about the Country that they reside in ?

Why were so many UK whites victims of opportunity. It seems to me that many of the victims in Rotherham lived in very dysfunctional environments. From the Rotherham report it tells us 55% of such children had used heroin at least once per week. 40% had been raped, but 73% had sexual health problems. It seems clear that in the overall context of the child sex abuse scandals in the UK there is a side of UK life that is under reported / not debated.

Let me reiterate for you. The abuse that took place in Rotherham ( as well as other locations ) was not a crime of opportunity. It was a well established peado ring that operated for almost 2 decades.

The victims lived in very dysfunctional environments ? Is that an excuse for them being targeted ? Lets blame it on the victims and not the perpetrators ?

The Rotherham report highlighted that the victims were plied with alcohol and drugs by the perpetrators. It is hardly surprising that 73% had sexual health problems, that is what happens when children are abused repeatedly. I am only surprised that it was only 70%.

It seems clear to me that in the context of these sexual abuse scandals, there was a side to UK life that was severely under reported. It was called Grooming gangs. It was under reported due to agencies covering it up for fear of being branded racist.

Just for the sake of the topic.

Men arrested over Sheffield and Rotherham child abuse

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-31875592

Another 5 have been arrested. There is currently another 300 men creatures being investigated.

[JockPieandBeans]

Meanwhile, a hop, skip and jump over to Rochdale.

An internal police inquiry, which was only published due to a public outcry.

Seven officers were served misconduct notices but only one detective inspector, now retired, was described as having a "case to answer".

Therefore no action will be taken against any officers, who have all been offered further training, GMP said.

I wonder why that would be and who is being protected.

Former Det Con Margaret Oliver, who resigned from the force in 2013 over the treatment of such crimes, said there were "probably hundreds of men" involved in CSE.

"This isn't something that goes away. These men are now in very sophisticated gang networks and have been allowed to develop their skills in grooming and abusing young girls,"

I think this statement kills any argument about '' Crimes of opportunity ''

She said one of the main problems was the failure to record crimes "adequately", with them described as sexual activity with a child "when they should have been rape".

Ms Oliver also criticised Operation Span, which she said was "put together to put right what was wrong in 2008 and 2009" but continued to see those taken to court as a result of the operation "still not charged with rape, [but] mainly with trafficking offences".

If what this woman is saying true, absolutely shocking revelation, and one that should be the springboard for an investigation that leaves no stone unturned and puts people in jail.

[simple1]

Simple 1

In the UK armed forces there are around around 650 Muslims in the 200,000-strong military making up less than 1 per cent of its ratio strength. In society as a whole, they comprise 4.8 per cent of the general population. Got to say if I were a UK Muslim I would hesitate on joining up with the apparent level of descrimination within UK society.

Discrimination is a 2 way street. To take your analogy of Muslims joining the ranks of the UK Military, currently around 650. More than 900 have left the UK to join the ranks of ISIS in less than a year. As a comparison, does that mean that more UK Muslims think more about ISIS than they do about the Country that they reside in ?

Why were so many UK whites victims of opportunity. It seems to me that many of the victims in Rotherham lived in very dysfunctional environments. From the Rotherham report it tells us 55% of such children had used heroin at least once per week. 40% had been raped, but 73% had sexual health problems. It seems clear that in the overall context of the child sex abuse scandals in the UK there is a side of UK life that is under reported / not debated.

Let me reiterate for you. The abuse that took place in Rotherham ( as well as other locations ) was not a crime of opportunity. It was a well established peado ring that operated for almost 2 decades.

The victims lived in very dysfunctional environments ? Is that an excuse for them being targeted ? Lets blame it on the victims and not the perpetrators ?

The Rotherham report highlighted that the victims were plied with alcohol and drugs by the perpetrators. It is hardly surprising that 73% had sexual health problems, that is what happens when children are abused repeatedly. I am only surprised that it was only 70%.

It seems clear to me that in the context of these sexual abuse scandals, there was a side to UK life that was severely under reported. It was called Grooming gangs. It was under reported due to agencies covering it up for fear of being branded racist.

Just for the sake of the topic.

Men arrested over Sheffield and Rotherham child abuse

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-31875592

Another 5 have been arrested. There is currently another 300 men creatures being investigated.

Yep, it is bizarre that apparently more UK citizens have joined IS than those from Indonesia with a population of 240 million.

From my reading, yes the victims families have a degree of ownership, not blaming the victims, but for sure a large number of victims came from dysfunctional families. This is the issue I'm referring to as deliberately under reported, I would go as far to say yet another example of PC behaviour. Yes the grooming IMO was based upon opportunity. Contacts were made in the streets, outside schools, government institutions and so on. e.g.

5.15 The process of grooming has been well documented in national reports and

research. Many of the cases we examined showed classic evidence of grooming.

Many of the children were already vulnerable when grooming began. The

perpetrators targeted children’s residential units and residential services for care

leavers. It was not unusual for children in residential services and schools to

introduce other children to the perpetrators.

[JockPieandBeans]

Yep, it is bizarre that apparently more UK citizens have joined IS than those from Indonesia with a population of 240 million.

From my reading, yes the victims families have a degree of ownership, not blaming the victims, but for sure a large number of victims came from dysfunctional families. This is the issue I'm referring to as deliberately under reported, I would go as far to say yet another example of PC behaviour. Yes the grooming IMO was based upon opportunity. Contacts were made in the streets, outside schools, government institutions and so on. e.g.

5.15 The process of grooming has been well documented in national reports and

research. Many of the cases we examined showed classic evidence of grooming.

Many of the children were already vulnerable when grooming began. The

perpetrators targeted children’s residential units and residential services for care

leavers. It was not unusual for children in residential services and schools to

introduce other children to the perpetrators.

If you were from the UK you would understand why that little anomaly is not as bizarre as it may seem. However that is going off topic.

As is dysfunctional families. It is absolutely incredible that anyone can bring the background of these victims into play. The background is nothing to do with grooming gangs. If you want to start a topic on these dysfunctional families, be my guest and start a new thread. I have plenty to say on that matter.

I guess that you did not my post above from a policewoman, who by all accounts resigned over this shocking scandal. So here it is again.

"This isn't something that goes away. These men are now in very sophisticated gang networks and have been allowed to develop their skills in grooming and abusing young girls,"

Try reading her words. This is not a crime of opportunity.

Your paragraph 5.15. I have highlighted the relevant part. '' Targeted '' is exactly that. Not opportunistic or anything else, one word '' Targeted ''

[7by7]

Can 7x7 or any of the other apologist for these Muslim scum provide us with a list of how the influx of these Muslims have benefited the UK.

I await your replies.

<snip>

By 'these Muslims' do you mean the vast majority who are law abiding citizens, work in all sectors, public and private, pay their taxes and contribute to the UK in the same way as any other citizen?

Like the people on this list?

Note that list includes a section on Militants; but even you can see that those who have made a positive contribution to the UK are far, far more numerous.

A positive contribution to the UK, is this the best you can come up with.

.....strangely no mention of Salman Rusdie (sic).........

You asked how Muslims have benefited the UK; I provided you with a list of some who have made a positive contribution.

That you don't care for the fact that so many have, including the many more ordinary people who are Muslim, but not famous so not on that list, and who are making a positive contribution every day in the NHS, the police, the fire brigade, in many other ways, is indicative of your ignorance and prejudice.

Biography of Salman Rushdie

While many of Rushdie’s texts center on the interpretation and role of religion in society, Rushdie himself is an atheist

Not surprising that an atheist is not on a list of prominent British Muslims!

[7by7]

Yes, these vile men did target a particular group of young girls.

They targeted young girls who, for various reasons, were vulnerable.

They came from dysfunctional families, many were in the care of social services.

They were allowed to wander the streets at night and so became easy targets for these men.

It is how paedophile rings, of any or no religion, carry out their vile business; target the vulnerable.

How many responsible parents or carers would allow young children, even adolescents, to wander the streets at night; to go out without saying where? I didn't when my daughter was that age; would any of you?

Of course, these particular crimes are not the only ones to have been 'brushed under the carpet' for many years. Some go back even further!

Westminster 'paedophile ring': now where does the investigation go?

That most, nearly all, of the victims in most, if not all, of these cases are white is mainly because, whether you like it or not, the majority of these vulnerable children are white.

This does not, of course, excuse or apologise for the crimes of these men; even though some will doubtless try, yet again, to say that I am doing so!

Neither does it excuse the failings of the police, social services etc. in all of these cases, whether the perpetrators be Muslim taxi drivers, Catholic priests, 'establishment' figures, radio DJs or whoever.

As far as this particular topic goes; these men did not commit these crimes because they are Muslim; they committed them because they are vile, evil creatures, we agree on that at least. The same as all the others; regardless of their religion, or none.

I asked long ago in this topic if anyone could provide any quote where any of these particular men have ever used their religion as an excuse or justification for their crime.

As far as I can recall, no one has yet done so.

Can anyone?

But many links and quotes have been provided to show that the vast majority of British Muslims, from spokespersons to clerics to ordinary Muslims in the street, are as appalled and horrified by these crimes as you and I.

Will all those who are using the suffering of these children to justify their prejudice accept that fact?

[Scott]

Well, it appears that this topic is going nowhere again.

//Closed//