Does Britain have a jihadi problem?

[Mosha]

Good article on the problem by a British Muslim

What links UK jihadis and Rotherham sex abusers? Mosques failing to give them moral leadership says LORD AHMED

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2738704/What-links-UK-jihadis-Rotherham-sex-abusers-Mosques-failing-moral-leadership-says-LORD-AHMED.html

Good article??? The Daily Mail???

Lord preserve us....... next we'll be referred to the National Front for their objective and cogent analyses.

Say what you like and no I haven't read it. You can bet your last baht. The same Imams that are "radicalising" the young, will be the same ones preaching non muslim women are trash.

[kieran2698]

An academic MP in the 60's and 70's in the UK , Enoch Powell wrote a paper and gave a long speech in the House of Commons.

He identified the problem of immigrants coming into the Country and that the consequences for the future were dire, he was supported by many at the time but considered too right wing.

Some thought he would make a great Prime Minister as he had the brains to understand politics and what the Country needed, but many thought he was too radical in his views.

He was under Thatcherism given an outpost position as a Westminster MP in N Ireland in his latter years so that he would cause less harm, THAT SPEECH IS STILL BEING READ TODAY BY POLITICAL STUDENTS, but alas too late.

What's an academic MP? Is that someone trying to learn how to be an MP? LOL

Powell was-

While at University, in one Greek prose examination lasting three hours, he was asked to translate a passage into Greek. Powell walked out after one and a half hours, having produced translations in the styles of Plato and Thucydides. For his efforts, he was awarded a double starred first in Latin and Greek, this grade being the best possible and extremely rare. As well as his education at Cambridge, Powell took a course in Urdu at the School of Oriental Studies, now the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, because he felt that his long-cherished ambition of becoming Viceroy of India would be unattainable without knowledge of an Indian language.^[6] Powell went on to learn other languages, including Welsh (in which he jointly edited a medieval legal text), modern Greek, and Portuguese.

from wikepeadia

Oh, I see, so he was an MP who was also academically minded, an academic who went on to become a MP. Nothing unusual there!

[7by7]

Good article on the problem by a British Muslim

What links UK jihadis and Rotherham sex abusers? Mosques failing to give them moral leadership says LORD AHMED

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2738704/What-links-UK-jihadis-Rotherham-sex-abusers-Mosques-failing-moral-leadership-says-LORD-AHMED.html

He makes some valid points, especially about the way mosques are run by conservative old men and the reluctance of imams to discuss certain subjects with their flock.

One very important point made by his Lordship, which you probably missed, comes at the end

Clearly, no responsible Muslim would claim the actions of either (the Rotherham child abusers or Jihadists) were anything other than a betrayal of their faith......

[H1w4yR1da]

This again!

[jacky54]

well Ahmed has to say that, anyway he is a very controversial figure disciplined by the labour party and making anti Jewish statements in the past. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Edited August 31, 2014 by jacky54

[jacky54]

This again!

Now now I'm sure the moderates would not object to drink, and some catholic priests might have done the same! er is there a Bible quote about not drinking, ooh no Jesus turned water into wine, while Mohamed was more likely to have turned it to blood.

[7by7]

This again!

No link, no mention of the source, no mention of the date!

Yes, that incident did happen, but not as recently as you are trying to claim by saying 'this again'; it was, like similar incidents, nearly a year ago.

I don't know whether or not these particular thugs have been caught yet; but these so called patrols are treated seriously by the police and courts and condemned by local mosques.

‘Muslim Patrol’ Sent to Jail for Enforcing Sharia Law in London Streets

The East London Mosque has condemned the “Muslim Patrols” and stated that it is committed to maintaining cooperation and harmony between communities in the area.

[7by7]

well Ahmed has to say that, anyway he is a very controversial figure disciplined by the labour party and making anti Jewish statements in the past. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You and those who agree with you repeatedly claim that Muslims never condemn acts of violence, terrorism, child abuse etc carried out by Muslims.

Yet every time someone shows you that they do, all you can say or imply is that they are lying, and produce out of context quotes from an Islamaphobic website to 'prove' it!

E-, must try harder.

[Mosha]

well Ahmed has to say that, anyway he is a very controversial figure disciplined by the labour party and making anti Jewish statements in the past. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You and those who agree with you repeatedly claim that Muslims never condemn acts of violence, terrorism, child abuse etc carried out by Muslims.

Yet every time someone shows you that they do, all you can say or imply is that they are lying, and produce out of context quotes from an Islamaphobic website to 'prove' it!

E-, must try harder.

We read of individuals where are the global mass demos like we see about Gaxa?

[H1w4yR1da]

And 7by7 is still apologising, still looking for excuses. Didn't you learn anything after Rotherham?

Edited August 31, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[7by7]

And you're still apologising, still looking for excuses. Didn't you learn anything after Rotherham?

I admit that I have learned from the pile of accusations similar to the above thrown at me recently.

Such accusations mean one thing, and one thing only.

My accusers may disagree with what I have said, but are incapable of finding or expressing an argument to counter it.

Hence their resorting to insults and ridiculous accusations about me apologising for and excusing crimes and atrocities.

I guess, in a way, it's a sort of back handed compliment as it shows the strength of my arguments!

[jacky54]

The East London Mosque has condemned the “Muslim Patrols” and stated that it is committed to maintaining cooperation and harmony between communities in the area.

Taqiyya again, have those Muslims responsible been banned from the Mosque? no, they are most likely local Islamist celebrities

[H1w4yR1da]

Hence their resorting to insults and ridiculous accusations about me apologising for and excusing crimes and atrocities.

I may have you mistaken for another pro-Islam poster but haven't you called others 'racist', 'prejudiced', 'bigots' etc.?

[jacky54]

My accusers may disagree with what I have said, but are incapable of finding or expressing an argument to counter it.

Hence their resorting to insults and ridiculous accusations about me apologising for and excusing crimes and atrocities.

I guess, in a way, it's a sort of back handed compliment as it shows the strength of my arguments!

When has anyone ever insulted you? you and simple1 are the one's calling others haters. You are deluded if you think your straw arguments, excuses and deflections have not been shot down, You have no arguments that I have seen, merely excuses and fantasies.

[7by7]

well Ahmed has to say that, anyway he is a very controversial figure disciplined by the labour party and making anti Jewish statements in the past. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You and those who agree with you repeatedly claim that Muslims never condemn acts of violence, terrorism, child abuse etc carried out by Muslims.

Yet every time someone shows you that they do, all you can say or imply is that they are lying, and produce out of context quotes from an Islamaphobic website to 'prove' it!

E-, must try harder.

We read of individuals where are the global mass demos like we see about Gaxa?

Gaxa? Do you mean Gaza?

As terrible as the abuse of children is, as contemptible as street gangs are, as worrying as the radicalisation of some Muslim youths is; they are a British problem and of little interest globally.

Gaza is of global interest.

The Muslim community and their representatives have spoken out about these things and condemned them. As shown earlier, they are urging anyone who knows the identity of any British jihadist to contact the police.

But this isn't good enough for the Islamaphobes, who simply accuse them of lying.

[7by7]

My accusers may disagree with what I have said, but are incapable of finding or expressing an argument to counter it.

Hence their resorting to insults and ridiculous accusations about me apologising for and excusing crimes and atrocities.

I guess, in a way, it's a sort of back handed compliment as it shows the strength of my arguments!

When has anyone ever insulted you? you and simple1 are the one's calling others haters. You are deluded if you think your straw arguments, excuses and deflections have not been shot down, You have no arguments that I have seen, merely excuses and fantasies.

Thank you for proving my point for me.

[Mosha]

well Ahmed has to say that, anyway he is a very controversial figure disciplined by the labour party and making anti Jewish statements in the past. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You and those who agree with you repeatedly claim that Muslims never condemn acts of violence, terrorism, child abuse etc carried out by Muslims.

Yet every time someone shows you that they do, all you can say or imply is that they are lying, and produce out of context quotes from an Islamaphobic website to 'prove' it!

E-, must try harder.

We read of individuals where are the global mass demos like we see about Gaxa?

Gaxa? Do you mean Gaza?

As terrible as the abuse of children is, as contemptible as street gangs are, as worrying as the radicalisation of some Muslim youths is; they are a British problem and of little interest globally.

Gaza is of global interest.

The Muslim community and their representatives have spoken out about these things and condemned them. As shown earlier, they are urging anyone who knows the identity of any British jihadist to contact the police.

But this isn't good enough for the Islamaphobes, who simply accuse them of lying.

Excuse the typo

[jacky54]

Thank you for proving my point for me.

Another laughable, meaningless repost. Actually 7x7 your accusations of being attacked and your faux 'offence' does remind me of a certain group of people who are forever offended when they can't get their own way and to deflect attention form the facts.

[anon676545345]

well Ahmed has to say that, anyway he is a very controversial figure disciplined by the labour party and making anti Jewish statements in the past. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You and those who agree with you repeatedly claim that Muslims never condemn acts of violence, terrorism, child abuse etc carried out by Muslims.

Yet every time someone shows you that they do, all you can say or imply is that they are lying, and produce out of context quotes from an Islamaphobic website to 'prove' it!

E-, must try harder.

Hmmm some bloke draws a cartoon that muslims find offensive Europe wide protests, Israel kills some of the civilians Hamas were using as a human shield world wide protests, muslims seem pretty vociferous when something offends them any other event and the BBC wheels on a talking head who apparently speaks for vast yet very silent majority.

[Mosha]

well Ahmed has to say that, anyway he is a very controversial figure disciplined by the labour party and making anti Jewish statements in the past. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You and those who agree with you repeatedly claim that Muslims never condemn acts of violence, terrorism, child abuse etc carried out by Muslims.

Yet every time someone shows you that they do, all you can say or imply is that they are lying, and produce out of context quotes from an Islamaphobic website to 'prove' it!

E-, must try harder.

Hmmm some bloke draws a cartoon that muslims find offensive Europe wide protests, Israel kills some of the civilians Hamas were using as a human shield world wide protests, muslims seem pretty vociferous when something offends them any other event and the BBC wheels on a talking head who apparently speaks for vast yet very silent majority.

Not a squeak on the streets of the UK. Indeed The carefully chosen commentators on BBC News World on News Reporters re Cameron's speech. "We must be careful of respecting peoples rights." Why? They don't give a toss about ours.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[sustento]

well Ahmed has to say that, anyway he is a very controversial figure disciplined by the labour party and making anti Jewish statements in the past. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

You and those who agree with you repeatedly claim that Muslims never condemn acts of violence, terrorism, child abuse etc carried out by Muslims.

Yet every time someone shows you that they do, all you can say or imply is that they are lying, and produce out of context quotes from an Islamaphobic website to 'prove' it!

E-, must try harder.

Hmmm some bloke draws a cartoon that muslims find offensive Europe wide protests, Israel kills some of the civilians Hamas were using as a human shield world wide protests, muslims seem pretty vociferous when something offends them any other event and the BBC wheels on a talking head who apparently speaks for vast yet very silent majority.

Not a squeak on the streets of the UK. Indeed The carefully chosen commentators on BBC News World on News Reporters re Cameron's speech. "We must be careful of respecting peoples rights." Why? They don't give a toss about ours.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1453436.ece

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/multimedia/archive/01091/Fatwa_on_ISIS_1091394a.pdf

[chiang mai]

Lots of yak yak here, Mosha is the only one who understands the picture from first hand knowledge, most everything else is chatter and conjecture, trust me on this point.

[Mosha]

@ sustento. Individuals. Show me lots of feet on the streets. especially in South and West Yorkshire

[boomerangutang]

Good article??? The Daily Mail??? Lord preserve us....... next we'll be referred to the National Front for their objective and cogent analyses.

When a person doesn't like the message, shoot the messenger.

"Clearly, no responsible Muslim would claim the actions of either (the Rotherham child abusers or Jihadists) were anything other than a betrayal of their faith....."

- alleged quote from Lord Ahmed

Wow, that in itself is scary. At least the Catholic Church wound up admitting grave crimes were committed, though it took them decades to so, dragging their feet all the way. Is Lord Ahmed a cleric or an actual member of the House of Lords? So what would the esteemed Lord recommend as punishment for 'a betrayal of their faith'? .... reading the Q'ran cover to cover while bowing to Mecca?

If any of the men were caught jacking off to Playboy, that might be 'a betrayal of their faith.' Lord Ahmed puts it in such a lightweight perspective, as if it were some boys caught drinking a beer. Any reasonable person would see the sadistic sex crimes as heinous and worthy of a life behind bars without parole (or worse). If they were tried and convicted of such heinous sex crimes in a Sharia court, they'd probably get off because their mamas convinced the judge, "they're actually very nice boys, if you knew them. I'll make sure they read the Q'ran every day and bow to Mecca. Plus, you know how floozy non-Muslim girls can be."

Edited August 31, 2014 by boomerangutang

[Steely Dan]

The East London Mosque has condemned the “Muslim Patrols” and stated that it is committed to maintaining cooperation and harmony between communities in the area.

Taqiyya again, have those Muslims responsible been banned from the Mosque? no, they are most likely local Islamist celebrities

That's the same Mosque that hosted homophobic hate speakers, was picked up on it, apologized, then hosted another just over a year later. Not forgetting the channel 4 undercover program with a follow up that again showed that promises made to put their house in order were again Taqiyya.

Be sure to watch the follow up too.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Steely Dan

[sustento]

@ sustento. Individuals. Show me lots of feet on the streets. especially in South and West Yorkshire

Did the Catholics turn out on the streets when the IRA blew Manchester up?

[7by7]

No, and I was a practising Catholic at the time and can assure you that my Irish Catholic priest never spoke out against Irish terrorist atrocities.

Neither did any bishop, cardinal nor the Pope.

My mum often wondered why the terrorists weren't excommunicated.

Whereas many imams and the MCB and other representatives of the British Muslim community do regularly speak out against and condemn the radicalisation of British Muslim youths, Muslim street gangs, the abuse of children etc.

But when they do the Islamaphobes either cry 'too little' or simply say they are lying!

Edited August 31, 2014 by 7by7

[7by7]

Thank you for proving my point for me.

Another laughable, meaningless repost. Actually 7x7 your accusations of being attacked and your faux 'offence' does remind me of a certain group of people who are forever offended when they can't get their own way and to deflect attention form the facts.

E-?

No, an F.

Instead of meaningless rubbish like the above, why not try actually addressing some of the points I have raised?

[JockPieandBeans]

@ Sustento

Your attachments are laughable to say the least.

These Imam's cannot be taken seriously, regardless of what they say, until they start publicly naming and shaming all the bampots that have been clearly identified in all the videos and pictures that have been published.

As for their Fatwa :

3. By murdering prisoners of war, journalists and civilians, including mosque imams who

refused to endorse their campaign, and by enslaving the women and children of their

opponents, ISIS has violated international agreements such as the Geneva Conventions and

conventions on slavery that everyone, including Muslims, have signed up to. God says in the

Qur’an, “Believers, fulfil your covenants!” (5:1)

1. Muslims have signed up to the Geneva Convention ? Really ? Countries sign up to the Geneva Convention, not groups of people.

2. Ergo, you cannot violate it if you are not a signee.

6. British and other EU citizens are bound by their duties to their home countries according to

Islamic theology and jurisprudence: it is therefore prohibited (haram) to travel to fight with

any side in Syria, including non-state actors, since this is forbidden by laws in EU countries.

7. It is a moral obligation upon British Muslims to help the Syrian and Iraqi people without

betraying their own societies: “If they ask for your help in religion, you must help, except

against a people with whom you have a treaty.” (Qur’an 8:72)

How many of these scumbags believe that they are UK or EU citzens ? They will always consider themselves to be citizens of whatever sh!thole they come from.

Just for further clarification

Due to recent events in the Middle East and their impact on some people in Britain, we as imams

and scholars based in the UK, would like to issue the following clarifications in the form of a fatwa:

Based in the UK, NOT citizens of the UK

Impact on some people in the UK. A veiled reference to the tide is beginning to turn against them ?