Does Britain have a jihadi problem?

[jacky54]

After all, we are talking about people who complain that Muslims don't publicly reject terrorists, jihadists, child abusers; yet when they are shown that Muslim communities, clerics and representatives do publicly reject those evils, claim that they are lying!

The problem is that competitively few of them do publicly reject the evil done in the name of their religion, and it's not our fault that Islam has lying as one of it's tactics. Unfortunately they do say one thing in the mosque and another to infidels.

[7by7]

Q.E.D.

[jacky54]

QED

[MJP]

But I refuse to become such a sheep that I cannot distinguish between human beings; to tar a whole people with the brush of hate because of some fanatics.

'Some fanatics' seem to have a large following in certain countries. I think we can guess which segment of the population supports IS.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/26/6067123/isis-poll

I have said in other posts that I abhor IS / ISIS. I deplore their behaviour. I detest their actions. Is that clear enough for you?

But that does not mean I will join the sheeple who are so easily wound up by a bit of kindergarten propaganda.

The sheeple wont listen to reason, CBR250.

The simple fact that you, and I, believe that the majority of Muslims are ordinary people whose only desire is to live in peace and get on with their lives, the same as the rest of us, and do not support the fanatics means, in the sheeple's minds, that we are a supporters of and apologists for Islamic terrorists and Muslim child abusers.

Such is the working of their closed minds; they simply cannot see the difference.

After all, we are talking about people who complain that Muslims don't publicly reject terrorists, jihadists, child abusers; yet when they are shown that Muslim communities, clerics and representatives do publicly reject those evils, claim that they are lying!

Agreed. In the face of the evidence so far I think it's far too risky to trust Islamic ideology.

Edited September 1, 2014 by MJP

[Ulysses G.]

The sheeple wont listen to reason, CBR250.

A quick look at CBR250's posting history will make it obvious that he is anything but "reasonable" when it comes to justifying and excusing radical Islamic groups and he is not the only one. Fanatical would be a lot closer to the truth.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[MJP]

QED

'This video is not available in your country'.

I'm presently in the UK.

[JemJem]

Sadly, probably ALL the European countries have a jihadi-problem; of course some more so than others.

It is easy to blame multiculturalism (right-wingers love to do that) , but the problem is to do with fascist aspects of religion.

Fundamentalist Islamic ideologies and Neo-Nazi ideologies will continue to wreak havoc on innocent people. It is time to get tough, VERY tough on these two kinds of menace.

[jacky54]

QED

'This video is not available in your country'.

I'm presently in the UK.

Yes you are right no can see in multicultural heaven but ok here in Thailand, maybe the Mosque complained about being caught out again. These are the teachings that have lead to the Jihadist problem in the UK, the message is at the start of the film- 'kill them'

Edited September 1, 2014 by jacky54

[7by7]

QED

'This video is not available in your country'.

I'm presently in the UK.

Due to the copyright owners, Channel 4, rather than any government censorship; sorry to disappoint you.

The original programme, made 7.5 years ago, and it's follow up, linked to above, were worrying, but was also about one mosque and it's associated organisation and Saudi funded non state school.

No one denies that fundamentalism is a problem, in the UK and elsewhere.

But to use these two documentaries about one mosque as a condemnation of all UK Muslims and 'proof' that all British Muslims support their aims and practices, as was no doubt the intention of the poster concerned, is desperation indeed.

It is akin to saying that the SWP represent all socialists in the UK!

Here is a link to an article about the programme on the Channel 4 website.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Scott

[MJP]

QED

'This video is not available in your country'.

I'm presently in the UK.

Due to the copyright owners, Channel 4, rather than any government censorship; sorry to disappoint you.

The original programme, made 7.5 years ago, and it's follow up, linked to above, were worrying, but was also about one mosque and it's associated organisation and Saudi funded non state school.

No one denies that fundamentalism is a problem, in the UK and elsewhere.

But to use these two documentaries about one mosque as a condemnation of all UK Muslims and 'proof' that all British Muslims support their aims and practices, as was no doubt the intention of the poster concerned, is desperation indeed.

It is akin to saying that the SWP represent all socialists in the UK!

Here is a link to an article about the programme on the Channel 4 website.

Blimey!

Have you actually read that link?

[Steely Dan]

But when they do the Islamaphobes either cry 'too little' or simply say they are lying!

I invite you to consider not using "Islamophobes" as a blanket to silence opponents, please. Islamophobe has intentionally been designed as a pejorative to suggest meanness of the labeled, perhaps treachery, and silence anyone it is tossed at. Perhaps it is similar to "antisemite"- which means, however- anti Semitic. "Islamophobe" does not even suggest the pejorative for which it is used; it means Islamic fear. It is an utterly exact word.

I have fear of Islam. Why should a conclusion I reach, irrespective of any action I take in the physical world, impugn me? I read endless news feeds regarding Islam throughout the world today, and I do have fear. I look at the UK's and US's muslim men currently fighting overseas (and the horrible excesses) and potentially bringing this back to the US or Europe; I fear Islam. I see the beheadings, and crucifixions, and various horrific acts against other human beings, and I fear Islam. I see an endless stream of recitation and citation of verse and sura and hadith and Islamic exegesis to justify every manner of jihadi terror; I fear Islam. I watch as the various Islamic countries are seeking anti blasphemy laws through the United Nations, to subsequently be binding on states, silencing free speech, free discourse, however displeasing it may be; I fear Islam. I see countless billions of dollars funneled through the various money trails- from the nozzle in our gas tank, to the sandy deserts kingdoms- and into terrorist pockets; I fear Islam!

I fear Islam because the west is complicit in using Islam as a tool to unseat liberal democracy and conservative institutions and traditions, a shared early aim with the western left; this is frightening. The Religion of Peace actually has an ongoing body count each day (See website appropriately titled Religion of Peace); throughout the world nations are on fire with the religion of Submission. A cursory look at the modus operandi of Islamic expansion in the past reveals nothing is new in the current collective deportment of muslims moving forward, into infidel lands, and setting up muslim communities; indeed, they look to Islamic records for instruction of current behavior, as updated and continually pushed by the Mufti and other scholars (Qadarawi) to insinuate into the west and consume the west from within (this rule/law of migration having first been established via hijra by the prophet by his migration north). Listen to the muslim people speaking to muslim people, citing verse and authority, and declaring they are coming to the west and bringing the sword. Why cant folks understand this needs no further elaboration? Yes, I am terrified of Islam. However, this does not make me a hater or a candidate to be removed from discourse.

How could any human being tell me the things I observe mean something else, or even could have another meaning; its news? I am not even interpreting what the news events mean. I am only stating that they are events, every day, reported all throughout the world, on numerous news-feeds and they speak for themselves. Therefore, its stipulated they cannot be something else- its just news! How then, can any human being consider the endless stream of escalating violence (NEWS) throughout the world and not have fear? How can any human being rationally not be an "Islamophobe?"

You or others may dissemble and huff and puff but I have made little in the way of interpretation above. All I have done is cite facts that I read news today, and that it scares me. This is not worthy of a pejorative label. Therefore, the use of the term "Islamophobe" actually identifies the user with intellectual vacancy. I would like to have this word back. When I announce I am an "Islamophobe" I don't want there to be any ambiguity. I want people to really know that I am deathly (pun intended) of Islam.

Great post! Yes I too fear Islam but on an amoral level I admire it, let me explain. A chromosome is a collection of genes which pass genetic information from one generation to the next. A meme is any concept that is transmitted socially using human beings as hosts, such as shaking hands. A meme complex contains a collection of memes, just as a chromosome does a collection of genes. Examples of meme complexes would be religions, political schools of thought, cultural identity. Now if for a minute you imagine memes compete to reproduce themselves as genes do then the meme complex that is Islam is stunningly well designed. Credit for this goes to the Koran, which in its own way surpasses The art of war, or Machiavelli's The Prince.

Islam spreads itself through terror when it is able to do so, this terror is not confined to infidels but to Muslims too, for if they ignore the call to jihad they are targets for those that follow it. As with other totalitarian ideologies leaving is not an option due to apostasy. Family members spy on one another to check for any haram activity. What. Is haram is in effect anything that slows the spread of Islam. Marrying out or behaving in a manner demonstrating independence of thought can and does lead to death, as honor killing statistics demonstrate. The role of the male is primary due to greater strength and aggression. Islam rewards both, sharing the spoils of war, taking slaves and the option of having up to four wives selects for individuals successful in killing to attain said wealth.

The role of the woman is to reproduce, so great importance is placed on ensuring all children are brought up Muslim, emphasis is put on encouraging as many offspring as possible, hence low ages of consent. Women as chattels haves no say in who they marry and aside from death for transgressors restrictions on travel and dress further consolidate the role. Just in case a strong instinct like sex drive gets in the way female circumcision puts paid to this.

Next we come to prayer. Prayer is regimented in the extreme and enmity towards non Muslims is spoken at every opportunity, all with a most melodious aurally inspiring sound, which inspires and bonds to a common cause - The misuse of zeal is how Sam Harris referred to this. Of course not all can attain a life of carnal luxury on earth so it is promised in the afterlife. The fairy tale of the hereafter is protected by making scientific reason or the opinions of outsiders forbidden. Indeed so strict are the rules of behavior that the chances of the Islamic meme complex mutating to something milder is reduced. Ahmadi Muslims are one such mutation, sought out and persecuted by the core ideology as a result.

Prohibitions maintain military discipline, alcohol and gambling would never do.

When Islam is weak in an area it becomes more conciliatory and dissembles in order to disguise it's true nature whilst seeking out and exploiting weaknesses in rival meme complexes.

Alas the only way the Western liberal memes can survive I the long run is to recognize the nature of the threat and counter it in it's entirety.

[7by7]

QED

'This video is not available in your country'.

I'm presently in the UK.

Due to the copyright owners, Channel 4, rather than any government censorship; sorry to disappoint you.

The original programme, made 7.5 years ago, and it's follow up, linked to above, were worrying, but was also about one mosque and it's associated organisation and Saudi funded non state school.

No one denies that fundamentalism is a problem, in the UK and elsewhere.

But to use these two documentaries about one mosque as a condemnation of all UK Muslims and 'proof' that all British Muslims support their aims and practices, as was no doubt the intention of the poster concerned, is desperation indeed.

It is akin to saying that the SWP represent all socialists in the UK!

Here is a link to an article about the programme on the Channel 4 website.

Blimey!

Have you actually read that link?

Yes, but:

•I said that no one denies there is a problem.

•The programme, and the link, are both 6 years old.

•I have not been able to find what mosque and what school they are talking about; so am not able to find out what action has been taken and whether or not things have changed.

I do know, as will anyone who keeps an eye on current affairs, that many mosques who did have a reputation for allowing extremists to preach have over the last few years taken action to kick the extremists out.

Whether the mosque in this 6 year old film and article have done so, I cannot say.

[jacky54]

When quotes from hate speeches by Imams are exposed, or the Koran is quoted the classic excuse is 'thats taken out of context'. Here a hate preacher is made to look pretty silly. After the doc this is about was show the Mosque went crying to the Police and Ch 4 was investigated, the Police later apologised to the TV company

from thttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/we...

Police apologise over mosque show

West Midlands Police and the Crown Prosecution Service have apologised for accusing the makers of a Channel 4 documentary of distortion.

The apology and the promise of £100,000 were made at the High Court on Thursday.

It follows comments made about a Dispatches programme, Undercover Mosque, which tackled claims of Islamic extremism

Edited September 1, 2014 by jacky54

[MJP]

^^ 7by7, look I really want to be friends with these people, but from what I've seen so far, they hate me and mine.

When a 'moderate' speaks out it's difficult to believe them.

As part of the investigation, the undercover reporter also films inside a key Saudi-funded Muslim organisation which claims to promote tolerance and integration yet distributes literature which promotes intolerance for non-Muslims, an extreme version of Sharia law and teachings which support discrimination against women.

See I very much like to support the rights of women and children and gay people. I have two riotous daughters, a wife so in touch with her feminine side and women's rights she reminds me of Colonel Walter E. Kurtz and I have a gay brother who's a right queen.

I don't want to see any of them at risk of harm because of an imaginary sky bully.

[loogkreung]

Can't we strike a deal like we will recognise IS in return for all "British" Muslims going to live there?

[Scott]

Most of the Muslims I know and worked with are good, kind and relatively forgiving people. They don't seem to mind that I am destined to go to hell. Some are very open to discussing religion, while with others I would be a little more reticent. I love talking politics in general and find them to be quite engaging and knowledgeable.

They really aren't all that different from a lot of other people from different religions and cultures.

[jacky54]

They really aren't all that different from a lot of other people from different religions and cultures.

Very true Scott, unfortunately for the world the faith they believe in, it's Holy book. and certainly the life of the Prophet they believe in are rather different.

[Steely Dan]

QED

'This video is not available in your country'.

I'm presently in the UK.

Due to the copyright owners, Channel 4, rather than any government censorship; sorry to disappoint you.

The original programme, made 7.5 years ago, and it's follow up, linked to above, were worrying, but was also about one mosque and it's associated organisation and Saudi funded non state school.

No one denies that fundamentalism is a problem, in the UK and elsewhere.

But to use these two documentaries about one mosque as a condemnation of all UK Muslims and 'proof' that all British Muslims support their aims and practices, as was no doubt the intention of the poster concerned, is desperation indeed.

It is akin to saying that the SWP represent all socialists in the UK!

Here is a link to an article about the programme on the Channel 4 website.

Blimey!

Have you actually read that link?

Yes, but:

•I said that no one denies there is a problem.

•The programme, and the link, are both 6 years old.

•I have not been able to find what mosque and what school they are talking about; so am not able to find out what action has been taken and whether or not things have changed.

I do know, as will anyone who keeps an eye on current affairs, that many mosques who did have a reputation for allowing extremists to preach have over the last few years taken action to kick the extremists out.

Whether the mosque in this 6 year old film and article have done so, I cannot say.

How have things changed in six years? I think the number of UK passport holders fighting for IS should give you a clue. As for trying to portray this Mosque as an isolated problem an article here claims 50% of UK Mosques have a radicalization problem. I know how much you love the Daily Mail, but alas there seems to be a problem linking to it from Thailand, so here is said article reproduced on another site you will no doubt love even more.

http://www.jdl-uk.org/2012/07/radical-islamic-sect-has-half-of.html

[MJP]

QED

'This video is not available in your country'.

I'm presently in the UK.

Due to the copyright owners, Channel 4, rather than any government censorship; sorry to disappoint you.

The original programme, made 7.5 years ago, and it's follow up, linked to above, were worrying, but was also about one mosque and it's associated organisation and Saudi funded non state school.

No one denies that fundamentalism is a problem, in the UK and elsewhere.

But to use these two documentaries about one mosque as a condemnation of all UK Muslims and 'proof' that all British Muslims support their aims and practices, as was no doubt the intention of the poster concerned, is desperation indeed.

It is akin to saying that the SWP represent all socialists in the UK!

Here is a link to an article about the programme on the Channel 4 website.

Blimey!

Have you actually read that link?

Yes, but:

•I said that no one denies there is a problem.

•The programme, and the link, are both 6 years old.

•I have not been able to find what mosque and what school they are talking about; so am not able to find out what action has been taken and whether or not things have changed.

I do know, as will anyone who keeps an eye on current affairs, that many mosques who did have a reputation for allowing extremists to preach have over the last few years taken action to kick the extremists out.

Whether the mosque in this 6 year old film and article have done so, I cannot say.

How have things changed in six years? I think the number of UK passport holders fighting for IS should give you a clue. As for trying to portray this Mosque as an isolated problem an article here claims 50% of UK Mosques have a radicalization problem. I know how much you love the Daily Mail, but alas there seems to be a problem linking to it from Thailand, so here is said article reproduced on another site you will no doubt love even more.

http://www.jdl-uk.org/2012/07/radical-islamic-sect-has-half-of.html

A hardline Islamic movement, whose leading UK imam preaches hatred of Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims and calls on British Muslims to "shed blood for Allah", is controlling almost half of Britain's mosques, a police report has found.

The rapidly growing influence of the ultra-conservative Deobandi sect, which is characterised by its total rejection of western values, has grown to such an extent that police now believe it runs more than 600 of Britain's 1,350 mosques.

Now let me guess. The British/Western values they don't reject are social welfare, income support and free health care for all.

I really am sick of this.

[Cambodger]

The sheeple wont listen to reason, CBR250.

A quick look at CBR250's posting history will make it obvious that he is anything but "reasonable" when it comes to justifying and excusing radical Islamic groups and he is not the only one. Fanatical would be a lot closer to the truth.

I don't know if Britain has a jihadi problem as I am not a Brit. But what I know is that Thai Visa Forum has a right wing, racist, anti-Islam problem very well illustrated by UG.

It also has its fair share of feminised, submissive, self loathing beta types too, go figure...

[transam]

The sheeple wont listen to reason, CBR250.

A quick look at CBR250's posting history will make it obvious that he is anything but "reasonable" when it comes to justifying and excusing radical Islamic groups and he is not the only one. Fanatical would be a lot closer to the truth.

I don't know if Britain has a jihadi problem as I am not a Brit. But what I know is that Thai Visa Forum has a right wing, racist, anti-Islam problem very well illustrated by UG.

Welcome aboard Mr.Muslim, perhaps you may see here the error of your ways... ...I hope so, so that kids can live a life without fear, and women can be women without male folk thinking they are something better than the females that brought them into the world.

[jacky54]

The sheeple wont listen to reason, CBR250.

A quick look at CBR250's posting history will make it obvious that he is anything but "reasonable" when it comes to justifying and excusing radical Islamic groups and he is not the only one. Fanatical would be a lot closer to the truth.

I don't know if Britain has a jihadi problem as I am not a Brit. But what I know is that Thai Visa Forum has a right wing, racist, anti-Islam problem very well illustrated by UG.

How can being anti Islam be either right wing or racist? Islam is not a race, it's a religion and to be opposed to it seems entirely rational given it's history and what is happening in the world today in it's name. As you don't know I can tell you, the UK does have a serious Jihadist problem.

[MJP]

‘Golden era of jihad’: British student’s video urges UK Muslims to join ISIS

A British student has thrown in his lot with hundreds of UK citizens fighting with the Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS), bragging of joining the “golden era of jihad” in a new online video.

http://rt.com/uk/183616-british-student-video-jihad/

[MJP]

British jihadist in Syria encourages others to join war in recruitment video

Speaking with a London accent, the man, a member of the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), says the "doors of jihad are still open", encouraging people to fight in the "holy war".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10713479/British-jihadist-in-Syria-encourages-others-to-join-war-in-recruitment-video.html

[arjunadawn]

Great post! Yes I too fear Islam but on an amoral level I admire it, let me explain. A chromosome is a collection of genes which pass genetic information from one generation to the next. A meme is any concept that is transmitted socially using human beings as hosts, such as shaking hands. A meme complex contains a collection of memes, just as a chromosome does a collection of genes. Examples of meme complexes would be religions, political schools of thought, cultural identity. Now if for a minute you imagine memes compete to reproduce themselves as genes do then the meme complex that is Islam is stunningly well designed. Credit for this goes to the Koran, which in its own way surpasses The art of war, or Machiavelli's The Prince.

Islam spreads itself through terror when it is able to do so, this terror is not confined to infidels but to Muslims too, for if they ignore the call to jihad they are targets for those that follow it. As with other totalitarian ideologies leaving is not an option due to apostasy. Family members spy on one another to check for any haram activity. What. Is haram is in effect anything that slows the spread of Islam. Marrying out or behaving in a manner demonstrating independence of thought can and does lead to death, as honor killing statistics demonstrate. The role of the male is primary due to greater strength and aggression. Islam rewards both, sharing the spoils of war, taking slaves and the option of having up to four wives selects for individuals successful in killing to attain said wealth.

The role of the woman is to reproduce, so great importance is placed on ensuring all children are brought up Muslim, emphasis is put on encouraging as many offspring as possible, hence low ages of consent. Women as chattels haves no say in who they marry and aside from death for transgressors restrictions on travel and dress further consolidate the role. Just in case a strong instinct like sex drive gets in the way female circumcision puts paid to this.

Next we come to prayer. Prayer is regimented in the extreme and enmity towards non Muslims is spoken at every opportunity, all with a most melodious aurally inspiring sound, which inspires and bonds to a common cause - The misuse of zeal is how Sam Harris referred to this. Of course not all can attain a life of carnal luxury on earth so it is promised in the afterlife. The fairy tale of the hereafter is protected by making scientific reason or the opinions of outsiders forbidden. Indeed so strict are the rules of behavior that the chances of the Islamic meme complex mutating to something milder is reduced. Ahmadi Muslims are one such mutation, sought out and persecuted by the core ideology as a result.

Prohibitions maintain military discipline, alcohol and gambling would never do.

When Islam is weak in an area it becomes more conciliatory and dissembles in order to disguise it's true nature whilst seeking out and exploiting weaknesses in rival meme complexes.

Alas the only way the Western liberal memes can survive I the long run is to recognize the nature of the threat and counter it in it's entirety.

Wow! This is really a good post (sounds like the mutual congratulatory society). I like the way you describe this as basically an institution of war; it is, actually, and muslims know this. They assert that this is the positive part of it (no, not all). I had always described it to myself and others as a virus. I don't say this to be abusive name calling; my capacity is slightly further ahead then this. I find it is analogous to a virus because it is, from its first host in Medina, to its gathering enough virons, to them bursting open and consuming the host, and then invading Mecca.

Virus use a process called pinocytosis (among a few) to invade a cell. They actually lie nearby and puncture the cell. Unable to reproduce their own DNA, viruses dump their RNA which informs the mitochondria and Golgi apparatus to start producing viral cells. In every host that the virus replicates, once it burst its vial load and saturate the host, the host dies and the virus moves on. When in a new host it tends to lie in wait, and may even protest to the body it is not a threat and only wants to be treated equally. Yet when the virus once again gains a critical mass- it again consumes the host. The virus does have the capacity to learn and adapt but its greatest asset is its simple utility. The virus is a war machine; its job is savage, brutal consumption of the host, and to seed its progeny thereafter.

Regardless, you and I had both searched for some descriptive... thing to capture the nature of what we were perceiving in this expansion. Whether we used the same words or not is not so important. That we arrived at the same location from different roads is very meaningful. Thank you.

Edited September 1, 2014 by arjunadawn

[MJP]

The Rise of British Jihadists in Syria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxDuENvxw_o

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

The sheeple wont listen to reason, CBR250.

A quick look at CBR250's posting history will make it obvious that he is anything but "reasonable" when it comes to justifying and excusing radical Islamic groups and he is not the only one. Fanatical would be a lot closer to the truth.

I don't know if Britain has a jihadi problem as I am not a Brit. But what I know is that Thai Visa Forum has a right wing, racist, anti-Islam problem very well illustrated by UG.

Welcome aboard Mr.Muslim, perhaps you may see here the error of your ways... ...I hope so, so that kids can live a life without fear, and women can be women without male folk thinking they are something better than the females that brought them into the world.

That is the hope of most of us Mr.Anti-Muslim. Hope that the world soon defeats the US, the super-vilain of modern time, so that our children and women are free of fear!

[loogkreung]

It funny how perceptions have changed since ww2. When the people of Britain last opposed a fascist ideology which threatened our existence, we were considered saviours, now we are all right-wing racists. Just shows how strong the left-wing, liberal lobby have become

[chiang mai]

The sheeple wont listen to reason, CBR250.

A quick look at CBR250's posting history will make it obvious that he is anything but "reasonable" when it comes to justifying and excusing radical Islamic groups and he is not the only one. Fanatical would be a lot closer to the truth.

I don't know if Britain has a jihadi problem as I am not a Brit. But what I know is that Thai Visa Forum has a right wing, racist, anti-Islam problem very well illustrated by UG.

Welcome aboard Mr.Muslim, perhaps you may see here the error of your ways... ...I hope so, so that kids can live a life without fear, and women can be women without male folk thinking they are something better than the females that brought them into the world.

TA, you have my utmost respect as a poster and great respect for your views on most things, on your latest comment however, you are out of order - love you nevertheless. UG, you too! - good night.

[MJP]

The Rise of British Jihadists in Syria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxDuENvxw_o

I urge viewing of this video.

It's so very sad. Amer is obviously a decent young man and his Dad is utterly confused about why he's lost three sons to Jihad.