Does Britain have a jihadi problem?

[JockPieandBeans]

I don't see Islam as falling apart. Similar to astrology (though it's benign) believers get even more stalwart when their beliefs are challenged. Trouble is, with Islamists, when their beliefs get challenged, they can get, in turn: defensive, angry, vindictive, threatening, destructive. It sounds like bratty kids.

From a psychological perspective, getting so profoundly defensive and lashing out, is indicative of insecurity. Perhaps we should pity Islamists because they're so insecure about their belief system - like you might steady a dog you take on a river raft ride in white water.

To follow your train of thought.

At the city's centre, the Id Kah mosque is the country's largest. In July, the Imam was murdered here; stabbed and clubbed to death.

"He deserved to die," a Uighur shopkeeper tells me quietly. He does not want to be identified. All Uighurs fear government reprisals if caught talking to foreigners.

The shopkeeper tells me that the Imam was a stooge of the Chinese government and condoning a series of restrictions for Uighurs in the region.

The restrictions are spelt out on a sign in a neighbouring street. With pictures, it states that beards are banned for young men and veils are banned for women.

Dont agree with the Imam, Kill him !!

http://news.sky.com/story/1328499/chinese-war-on-terror-may-breed-extremists

[Steely Dan]

Yet most of it seems pretty clear, just 2 out of 108 suras on violence:

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Cue our resident apologists to give their interpretation of the quotes.

The usual response is well what about the old testament, that's got some nasty bits in it. it may well have but nobody is acting on them so it's not encouraging terrorists to fly planes into buildings, wage war around the world or single out people of other faiths and apostates to be killed. The other is, well what about all the people killed in the name of Christ, what about the inquisition. That was all a long time ago and Christianity evolved and got reformed, Islam is still in the 7th century with all those barbarous attitudes from that time. Islam must get reformed and it's followers must speak out a LOT more about jihadists and hard liners if we are ever going to be able to co exist with them.

If you start 'reforming' it, Islam will fall apart.

Its people will abandon it in droves.

Think eastern europe in the late 80's early 90's.

This in a nutshell is why the OIC have been desperately trying to get Islamic blasphemy laws applied worldwide under the misleading cover of 'defamation against religions' legislation. Islam can't survive critical scrutiny for long and those who wield it as a power base know this only too well.

[Johpa]

I found Sam Harris's argument in his book The End of Faith somewhat persuasive that the only intellectually coherant response to Islam is atheism.

What's the difference between a society that demands actual religious adherence, and one that bans religion entirely? Both are authoritarian. 'Seems to me the closest a society can come to real freedom is to be one that simply makes religion a personal choice, and does not allow one's practice (or choice not to practice) to infringe (truly infringe; not some make believe "emotional injury") upon someone else's free choice. Atheists have persuaded the weak-minded that any suggestion of religious practice anywhere in the public commons is a personal afront and works some sort of mental anguish on them which must be rooted out & crushed at all costs. And so, atheism itself acquires many of the characteristics of a "religion", or at least a certain "zealotry", and unfortunately one that everybody must bow down to.

I made no mention what so ever about banning any religious belief nor implied, or intended to imply, any hint of authoritarianism. I only noted one book whose argument on how to respond to Islam I personally found persuaive. I did not elaborate the argument, you should read the book for that purpose, nor did I say that there were no alternative arguments out there. I have no problem with public displays of piety and in previous threads I have been one to defend some of the missionaries up in Chiang Mai because I have been befriended by a few of the older families and find them to be good people. I understand that there are some atheists out there who indeed project a holier-than-thou persona. I am not one of those people and I actually prefer to refer to myself as a non-theist.

[hotsoup]

Jihadi problem?

That is the least of Britain's problems.

A country and people that were once a mirror to hold up to people of how to run and organise a society.

Now a bunch of abject retards. Scared of everything, accepting any rules and regulations imposed on them. Spying on each other with more cameras than anywhere on earth. Allowed their country to be over run by peoples they spent centuries terrorising. Corruption in public and private life rampant. Constructed a society where no young person can afford to buy a house. No wonder, though British, we don't live there!!

[MJP]

Jihadi problem?

That is the least of Britain's problems.

A country and people that were once a mirror to hold up to people of how to run and organise a society.

Now a bunch of abject retards. Scared of everything, accepting any rules and regulations imposed on them. Spying on each other with more cameras than anywhere on earth. Allowed their country to be over run by peoples they spent centuries terrorising. Corruption in public and private life rampant. Constructed a society where no young person can afford to buy a house. No wonder, though British, we don't live there!!

Scratch beneath the plastic veneer and yes, it's a right old mess.

[i claudius]

I come from a town with a very large .Muslim community they were pretty much like us 30 years ago then the mosque came the segregated schools came the viels came now its s foreign country where we are not welcome well I have gone from an ordinary guy who said live and let live and I am now like them they don't want us and I certainly have no love of them any of them .they sowed the wind

[transam]

I come from a town with a very large .Muslim community they were pretty much like us 30 years ago then the mosque came the segregated schools came the viels came now its s foreign country where we are not welcome well I have gone from an ordinary guy who said live and let live and I am now like them they don't want us and I certainly have no love of them any of them .they sowed the wind

I agree...

For them it will be a slow process BUT it seems they are succeading in that process, sadly..

[Steely Dan]

As I am reading "Londonistan" it is appallingly obvious how very deeply ingrained UK's jihadi problem is. In no small part, UK is a modern hub of Saudi jihadi will. Basically, "UK is our go to guy in the west," (Fictitious conversation with Senior Saudi cleric and the royal house).

That's a book everyone should read, well written and researched and sadly things have only gotten worse since it was published in 2006. Been undated since.

I would also suggest Eurabia by Bat Ye'or considering the varying degrees the problem the UK faces is similar to much of the rest of Europe.

Arjunadawn, I remarked on another thread that in my view we were too late to save Europe except through measures that would seem draconian and simply anathema to modern liberals. I didn't spell out what measures I considered would work, which I note you have started to do. Alas history doesn't repeat itself but it does echo, I'm thinking of the reconquista of Spain, which may be the only option left if things aren't nipped in the bud very soon indeed.

[MJP]

As I am reading "Londonistan" it is appallingly obvious how very deeply ingrained UK's jihadi problem is. In no small part, UK is a modern hub of Saudi jihadi will. Basically, "UK is our go to guy in the west," (Fictitious conversation with Senior Saudi cleric and the royal house).

That's a book everyone should read, well written and researched and sadly things have only gotten worse since it was published in 2006. Been undated since.

I would also suggest Eurabia by Bat Ye'or considering the varying degrees the problem the UK faces is similar to much of the rest of Europe.

Arjunadawn, I remarked on another thread that in my view we were too late to save Europe except through measures that would seem draconian and simply anathema to modern liberals. I didn't spell out what measures I considered would work, which I note you have started to do. Alas history doesn't repeat itself but it does echo, I'm thinking of the reconquista of Spain, which may be the only option left if things aren't nipped in the bud very soon indeed.

It's easy Dan. Just turn the benefits off.

[arjunadawn]

As I am reading "Londonistan" it is appallingly obvious how very deeply ingrained UK's jihadi problem is. In no small part, UK is a modern hub of Saudi jihadi will. Basically, "UK is our go to guy in the west," (Fictitious conversation with Senior Saudi cleric and the royal house).

That's a book everyone should read, well written and researched and sadly things have only gotten worse since it was published in 2006. Been undated since.

I would also suggest Eurabia by Bat Ye'or considering the varying degrees the problem the UK faces is similar to much of the rest of Europe.

Arjunadawn, I remarked on another thread that in my view we were too late to save Europe except through measures that would seem draconian and simply anathema to modern liberals. I didn't spell out what measures I considered would work, which I note you have started to do. Alas history doesn't repeat itself but it does echo, I'm thinking of the reconquista of Spain, which may be the only option left if things aren't nipped in the bud very soon indeed.

In an egotistical sense, it makes no matter whether one single person agrees with me regarding the "jihadi" problem of Europe being, frankly, the "Islam" problem of the world. If Islamic expansion were stopped today, and you volunteered for that mars trip and spent 10 years before your return, you would not recognize the UK upon your arrival. In 10 years when you return you would find numerous places in UK living as the kurds and various arabs live in Iraq and elsewhere- behind Jersey and concrete "T" walls dividing housing areas, imposing checks, with neighbors formed in groups for self protection. And by 25 years UK will look like a balkanized failed state. Really? Think I am sensationalizing my point? I am not from UK. It does not effect me (directly); my motives are genuine.

UK authorities have already made it abundantly clear and precedent setting that they afford Islamic protestors not just equal protections but special protections. A first day idiot to Jihad School knows the UK has done this repeatedly and it is an implicit act of Dhimmitude but also any adult who has ever trained a dog knows if you let the dog shit in your kitchen, you will always smell shit when you eat. Therefore, the UK has already greatly empowered the jihadi movement enabling it to exact a disproportionate response from even cursory civil unrest (because they don't couch under the banner of equal protections; they couch their protests under the not so fine line where equal protections and special protections meet. Equal protections are for Dhimmi; no muslim will be satisfied with an estate of Equal Protection before any law, or man. Islam by incessant declaration declares supremacy! It is everywhere in the koranic scripture, and evidence on US streets. See French riots; other).

Wait till they start smashing windows, ripping advertising from every edifice, burning neighborhoods on their periphery, and with the same pussy crap, authorities withdrawing, conceding entire No-Go areas to... to animals who bite the hand of those who took them in and fed them. Remember, it is not the Islamic history in UK that feeds, houses, and provides for all the muslim immigrants. It is capitalism, the fruits of christian, jewish, and shared muslim, atheists, etc., industry that provide for the kitty that feeds their lawfare children from the public dole. Listen to what they say to each other. Getting paid for having babies is a form of the "tax;" the jiyza. It is incumbent on the infidel to pay them, they are dhimmis. Listen to what they said to each other, not what we say to each other.

UK will be nearly fractured within 10-20 years. Within 10-20 years bombings will be frequent. In 10-20 years some mockery of representation will allow the very threat to the western form of government to declare its ends in parliament, indeed their party, that sharia must be given further credibility as a fully functioning quasi justice and state apparatus, no longer just culturally local. If nothing is done to stop the immigration trend, and begin to reverse the mechanics that enable our own demise, these things will come to pass.

No man can say I preach hatred; I do not. None can say I make up facts; I do not. One can call me names, but only as a result of the inassaible facts I cite, and conclusions I MUST reach. When 1+1=2 and 2+1=3 and 3+2=5 and 5+3=8 and 8+5=Islam, it is only a matter of time before the obvious must be declared.

[canman]

In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. In October 2011 2 men were sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque.

The above is a great example of how far gone the British way of life is.

[arjunadawn]

In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. In October 2011 2 men were sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque.

The above is a great example of how far gone the British way of life is.

Help me with this, please. The Poppy- a symbol of British war dead, yes? Like in US (WWI)?

The Poppy on the Mosque has a special gravity of weight because it is a mosque? Therefore the sentence? Hrmmm.

If a person instead, in the middle of the night, adorned the mosque with lovely flowers, and bouquets, and nearby trellises of hues of green and savage violet, crimson red and sunshine yellow, and crystal spheres that reflected the mosque in every facet, would there then have been a crime? I don't think so. The Poppy is otherwise just... a flower.

The Poppy previously had a weight in the collective British psyche because it represented ________.

The Poppy now has a weight (for this piece) because the muslims that made it a symbol of their hatred of their host, the British, burned it, and then declared the new value of this symbol by that act. Don't let them tell you it was a stiff sentence because it was a mosque, that is BS. It is a stiff sentence because the apparatus of state has been co-opted/held hostage by white guilt, minority leverage, investment in multicultural nonsense, and cries of "woe is us, the Western Machine doesn't love us."

[transam]

In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. In October 2011 2 men were sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque.

The above is a great example of how far gone the British way of life is.

Help me with this, please. The Poppy- a symbol of British war dead, yes? Like in US (WWI)?

The Poppy on the Mosque has a special gravity of weight because it is a mosque? Therefore the sentence? Hrmmm.

If a person instead, in the middle of the night, adorned the mosque with lovely flowers, and bouquets, and nearby trellises of hues of green and savage violet, crimson red and sunshine yellow, and crystal spheres that reflected the mosque in every facet, would there then have been a crime? I don't think so. The Poppy is otherwise just... a flower.

The Poppy previously had a weight in the collective British psyche because it represented ________.

The Poppy now has a weight (for this piece) because the muslims that made it a symbol of their hatred of their host, the British, burned it, and then declared the new value of this symbol by that act. Don't let them tell you it was a stiff sentence because it was a mosque, that is BS. It is a stiff sentence because the apparatus of state has been co-opted/held hostage by white guilt, minority leverage, investment in multicultural nonsense, and cries of "woe is us, the Western Machine doesn't love us."

Then folk who follow an ancient book really should not move to a Christian country of cash benefits and stay where their roots are. So simple, but of course their land has noooooooo cash benefits for laying on a sofa watching tele does it....?

[boomerangutang]

I foresee a backlash, within 5 years of moderate Muslims in UK against radicalized Muslims. Guess who will win.

[Jingthing]

I foresee a backlash, within 5 years of moderate Muslims in UK against radicalized Muslims. Guess who will win.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist, innit?

[arjunadawn]

In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. In October 2011 2 men were sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque.

The above is a great example of how far gone the British way of life is.

Help me with this, please. The Poppy- a symbol of British war dead, yes? Like in US (WWI)?

The Poppy on the Mosque has a special gravity of weight because it is a mosque? Therefore the sentence? Hrmmm.

If a person instead, in the middle of the night, adorned the mosque with lovely flowers, and bouquets, and nearby trellises of hues of green and savage violet, crimson red and sunshine yellow, and crystal spheres that reflected the mosque in every facet, would there then have been a crime? I don't think so. The Poppy is otherwise just... a flower.

The Poppy previously had a weight in the collective British psyche because it represented ________.

The Poppy now has a weight (for this piece) because the muslims that made it a symbol of their hatred of their host, the British, burned it, and then declared the new value of this symbol by that act. Don't let them tell you it was a stiff sentence because it was a mosque, that is BS. It is a stiff sentence because the apparatus of state has been co-opted/held hostage by white guilt, minority leverage, investment in multicultural nonsense, and cries of "woe is us, the Western Machine doesn't love us."

Then folk who follow an ancient book really should not move to a Christian country of cash benefits and stay where their roots are. So simple, but of course their land has noooooooo cash benefits for laying on a sofa watching tele does it....?

You are correct. But IMO muslims do not come to the west only because home state imams advise them to, (though numerous to advise them to conduct jihad by Hija) and they and their families enter into some unholy, vast Islamic conspiracy to migrate and consume the west from within. They come to the west because they are afforded a better way of life, and then (often prior as well) they realize they don't have to work, and then local imams reinforce that they are part of the Islamically mandated Hija migration. Over the past decade or so most muslim opinion leaders, from the Sahara to the Maghreb to Kabul are speaking with a similar voice regarding the duty to migrate as jihad- didn't know this did you? I jest but many people do not realize this. It is this mechanism that has house wives and youngsters avidly participating in jihad.

The hija/migration is not a concept. It is not some long suffering heterodoxy of Islam. Migration jihad is a highly developed, core pillar in islam. It is based on the prophet's migration north, how the prophet insinuated into the people, the rise to a critical mass in converts, then slaying the host inhabitants, fine tuning the conduct of war, moving away from feigned assimilation, and advancing to all out war on Mecca. This process is the mechanism that has been repeated perpetually since.

One might muse that if they are, say 75 years old, and they look back over their own lifetime, they don't see such rapid islamic expansion, as I have suggested is a core pillar. They may concede that of the past 20 years my point seems valid; but only this. Where is the disconnect?

There is a reason it is said that no one can govern in the muslim world unless they are very strong, and that arabs do not respond well to soft approaches. This is true. Over the past 100 years the muslim world has been subordinated to a global bipolar world, and the advent of modern social communication and media had not yet been born. Over the past 30 years this has changed, the yoke lifted, water is again seeking its own level, and mass media drives the trends now emanating from the muslim world. Prior to 100 years ago there too was an artificial, supra imposed unipolar world atop the muslim world- the Ottoman Empire. Prior to this our example 75 year old man scenario fails for sure and we are most definitely in the waring years- BEGUN EVEN BEFORE THE PROPHET DIED.

Islam has been held in no expansionist check (relatively) through successful empires: Ottoman, Britannia, USA/Russia. While there existed revolts, protests, etc., these were largely local due to the nature of news and communication. Irrespective of my analysis for the past, the fact is islamic seeding of Wahhabi like fundamentalism in funded mosques and madrases throughout the world since approx 80 years ago, is now producing fruit at a time when Humans have entered into a technological/information age of instant communication and crowd sourcing of emotion and collective opinion. Its not that there are few smart people aware what is happening to us, there are just fewer smart people.

[Seastallion]

In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. In October 2011 2 men were sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque.

The above is a great example of how far gone the British way of life is.

Help me with this, please. The Poppy- a symbol of British war dead, yes? Like in US (WWI)?

The Poppy on the Mosque has a special gravity of weight because it is a mosque? Therefore the sentence? Hrmmm.

If a person instead, in the middle of the night, adorned the mosque with lovely flowers, and bouquets, and nearby trellises of hues of green and savage violet, crimson red and sunshine yellow, and crystal spheres that reflected the mosque in every facet, would there then have been a crime? I don't think so. The Poppy is otherwise just... a flower.

The Poppy previously had a weight in the collective British psyche because it represented ________.

The Poppy now has a weight (for this piece) because the muslims that made it a symbol of their hatred of their host, the British, burned it, and then declared the new value of this symbol by that act. Don't let them tell you it was a stiff sentence because it was a mosque, that is BS. It is a stiff sentence because the apparatus of state has been co-opted/held hostage by white guilt, minority leverage, investment in multicultural nonsense, and cries of "woe is us, the Western Machine doesn't love us."

The poppy had a weight in the British (and ANZAC) psyche because it represented the dead of WW1 (In Flanders field where the poppies grow..). The symbolism has grown.

Just as swastikas spray painted on Jewish graves are treated far more harshly that burning a star of David flag.

You have erroneously twisted this story into "the poppy is now a symbol of hate for Muslims" thus it is intolerable to have a poppy painted on a mosque.. Not so. No more so than the Star of David is a symbol of hate.

Using your example of flowers.......geometrical figures, wondrous in their symmetry, in their complexity, in their patterns and design, are painted on a synagogue or Jewish grave...vandalism. Should one of those geometric figures look like a swastika....big crime in all the West.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Seastallion

[i claudius]

I foresee a backlash, within 5 years of moderate Muslims in UK against radicalized Muslims. Guess who will win.

The day that moderate Muslims stand against their brother Muslims or march against the bad ones in the UK is the day hell freezes over.

[arjunadawn]

I foresee a backlash, within 5 years of moderate Muslims in UK against radicalized Muslims. Guess who will win.

Just a different take (we are going to the same place). I do not think there will be a significant backlash from moderate muslims at all. I think we will see an increasing pool of radicals reaching a fever pitch and while the intuition might be this will cause moderates to finally announce themselves collectively and reject jihad, the moderates will instead retreat further into silent uncertainty, their silence further creating more moral authority of the jihadists (as if they needed more).

It is not for the average man, who just wants to raise his family in peace, and his wife who wants to be a mother, and both who seek to worship the god of their ancestors, to rise to the public podium and enter the battle of ideas on the side of moderation. There is no reason in the practice of their lives that we should insist this is their responsibility- except one vital thing! History has thrust upon those like this the duty of the vanguard in protecting civilization, to ensure tomorrow for their progeny, and give their lives and the words of their god legitimacy. History places such muslims in the battle whether they wish to be present or not. Their silence is a choice.

"Moderate" muslims are the canary in the coal mines of our times. Their silence informs us of only one thing!

[arjunadawn]

In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. In October 2011 2 men were sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque.

The above is a great example of how far gone the British way of life is.

Help me with this, please. The Poppy- a symbol of British war dead, yes? Like in US (WWI)?

The Poppy on the Mosque has a special gravity of weight because it is a mosque? Therefore the sentence? Hrmmm.

If a person instead, in the middle of the night, adorned the mosque with lovely flowers, and bouquets, and nearby trellises of hues of green and savage violet, crimson red and sunshine yellow, and crystal spheres that reflected the mosque in every facet, would there then have been a crime? I don't think so. The Poppy is otherwise just... a flower.

The Poppy previously had a weight in the collective British psyche because it represented ________.

The Poppy now has a weight (for this piece) because the muslims that made it a symbol of their hatred of their host, the British, burned it, and then declared the new value of this symbol by that act. Don't let them tell you it was a stiff sentence because it was a mosque, that is BS. It is a stiff sentence because the apparatus of state has been co-opted/held hostage by white guilt, minority leverage, investment in multicultural nonsense, and cries of "woe is us, the Western Machine doesn't love us."

The poppy had a weight in the British (and ANZAC) psyche because it represented the dead of WW1 (In Flanders field where the poppies grow..). The symbolism has grown.

Just as swastikas spray painted on Jewish graves are treated far more harshly that burning a star of David flag.

You have erroneously twisted this story into "the poppy is now a symbol of hate for Muslims" thus it is intolerable to have a poppy painted on a mosque.. Not so. No more so than the Star of David is a symbol of hate.

Using your example of flowers.......geometrical figures, wondrous in their symmetry, in their complexity, in their patterns and design, are painted on a synagogue or Jewish grave...vandalism. Should one of those geometric figures look like a swastika....big crime in all the West.

Perhaps I should remain monosyllabic! I thought I made clear the poppy, in this case, was directly related to the earlier issue with the burning of the poppy. Even here, perhaps, I over reached. But I was not suggesting it was largely a hijacked symbol. It probably best for me not to go on. I have the vaguest sense I did not make my point. It also wasn't valuable enough to repeat. Thanks for the info, though.

[Seastallion]

In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. In October 2011 2 men were sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque.

The above is a great example of how far gone the British way of life is.

Help me with this, please. The Poppy- a symbol of British war dead, yes? Like in US (WWI)?

The Poppy on the Mosque has a special gravity of weight because it is a mosque? Therefore the sentence? Hrmmm.

If a person instead, in the middle of the night, adorned the mosque with lovely flowers, and bouquets, and nearby trellises of hues of green and savage violet, crimson red and sunshine yellow, and crystal spheres that reflected the mosque in every facet, would there then have been a crime? I don't think so. The Poppy is otherwise just... a flower.

The Poppy previously had a weight in the collective British psyche because it represented ________.

The Poppy now has a weight (for this piece) because the muslims that made it a symbol of their hatred of their host, the British, burned it, and then declared the new value of this symbol by that act. Don't let them tell you it was a stiff sentence because it was a mosque, that is BS. It is a stiff sentence because the apparatus of state has been co-opted/held hostage by white guilt, minority leverage, investment in multicultural nonsense, and cries of "woe is us, the Western Machine doesn't love us."

The poppy had a weight in the British (and ANZAC) psyche because it represented the dead of WW1 (In Flanders field where the poppies grow..). The symbolism has grown.

Just as swastikas spray painted on Jewish graves are treated far more harshly that burning a star of David flag.

You have erroneously twisted this story into "the poppy is now a symbol of hate for Muslims" thus it is intolerable to have a poppy painted on a mosque.. Not so. No more so than the Star of David is a symbol of hate.

Using your example of flowers.......geometrical figures, wondrous in their symmetry, in their complexity, in their patterns and design, are painted on a synagogue or Jewish grave...vandalism. Should one of those geometric figures look like a swastika....big crime in all the West.

Perhaps I should remain monosyllabic! I thought I made clear the poppy, in this case, was directly related to the earlier issue with the burning of the poppy. Even here, perhaps, I over reached. But I was not suggesting it was largely a hijacked symbol. It probably best for me not to go on. I have the vaguest sense I did not make my point. It also wasn't valuable enough to repeat. Thanks for the info, though.

Remain monosyllabic? That's a direct insult.

Once again, I direct your own words towards yourself.

You painted an analogy of flowers on a mosque wall, then drew the distinction of the "crime" of the poppy on the mosque wall. My geometrical figures analogy was apt. Obviously a swastika on a synagogue wall is offensive and will draw a harsher sentence.

I have a strong sense that I did not make my point. I'm not an arjun, so I don't claim to be able to impart so well.

I haven't got the sense that you are arjun either.

[Scott]

British 'jihadist' mum threatens to behead Christians: reports

London (AFP) - A middle-aged British mother-of-two and former rock band member has joined jihadists in Syria and wants to behead Christians with a "blunt knife", British media reported.

The reports identified the woman as Sally Jones, 45, from Kent in southeast England, and said she now goes by the name Sakinah Hussain, or Umm Hussain al-Britani.

Security experts estimate that hundreds of Britons have gone to the Middle East to join the Islamic State (IS) militant group, the most brutal to emerge out of Syria's bloody civil war and the most successful

http://news.yahoo.com/british-jihadist-mum-threatens-behead-christians-reports-113331874.html

[jacky54]

British 'jihadist' mum threatens to behead Christians: reports

Can't be a real Muslim obviously Cameron has threatened to take away the passports of people like this, does anyone seriously think he either can, or will?

[transam]

British 'jihadist' mum threatens to behead Christians: reports

London (AFP) - A middle-aged British mother-of-two and former rock band member has joined jihadists in Syria and wants to behead Christians with a "blunt knife", British media reported.

The reports identified the woman as Sally Jones, 45, from Kent in southeast England, and said she now goes by the name Sakinah Hussain, or Umm Hussain al-Britani.

Security experts estimate that hundreds of Britons have gone to the Middle East to join the Islamic State (IS) militant group, the most brutal to emerge out of Syria's bloody civil war and the most successful

http://news.yahoo.com/british-jihadist-mum-threatens-behead-christians-reports-113331874.html

I think the word Britons should be removed from this type of topic, instead their real family identity should be attached.............

[metisdead]

Off topic baiting posts and replies have been removed. This topic is not about Israel or the events that have transpired there.

[Mosha]

British 'jihadist' mum threatens to behead Christians: reports

London (AFP) - A middle-aged British mother-of-two and former rock band member has joined jihadists in Syria and wants to behead Christians with a "blunt knife", British media reported.

The reports identified the woman as Sally Jones, 45, from Kent in southeast England, and said she now goes by the name Sakinah Hussain, or Umm Hussain al-Britani.

Security experts estimate that hundreds of Britons have gone to the Middle East to join the Islamic State (IS) militant group, the most brutal to emerge out of Syria's bloody civil war and the most successful

http://news.yahoo.com/british-jihadist-mum-threatens-behead-christians-reports-113331874.html

I think the word Britons should be removed from this type of topic, instead their real family identity should be attached.............

Britons were a Celtic tribe who who were driven to the coat of Wales bi the Anglo Saxons. I agree.

[transam]

British 'jihadist' mum threatens to behead Christians: reports

London (AFP) - A middle-aged British mother-of-two and former rock band member has joined jihadists in Syria and wants to behead Christians with a "blunt knife", British media reported.

The reports identified the woman as Sally Jones, 45, from Kent in southeast England, and said she now goes by the name Sakinah Hussain, or Umm Hussain al-Britani.

Security experts estimate that hundreds of Britons have gone to the Middle East to join the Islamic State (IS) militant group, the most brutal to emerge out of Syria's bloody civil war and the most successful

http://news.yahoo.com/british-jihadist-mum-threatens-behead-christians-reports-113331874.html

I think the word Britons should be removed from this type of topic, instead their real family identity should be attached.............

Britons were a Celtic tribe who who were driven to the coat of Wales bi the Anglo Saxons. I agree.

It seems I am of Norman decent.............

But I don't feel like a Norman............ .............

[Steely Dan]

In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He was given a £50 fine and walked free from court. In October 2011 2 men were sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque.

The above is a great example of how far gone the British way of life is.

Another is a politician called Paul Weston was arrested for publicly quoting Winston Churchill's opinion of Islam. If that doesn't set alarm bells ringing nothing will.

[Seastallion]

Alas the only way the Western liberal memes can survive I the long run is to recognize the nature of the threat and counter it in it's entirety.

I found Sam Harris's argument in his book The End of Faith somewhat persuasive that the only intellectually coherant response to Islam is atheism.

Agreed. Same goes for Christianity, Judaism etc.

I hardly ever met any atheists who would dare to challenge and/or convert muslims to their cause.

Instead they seem to reserve all their poison for attacks on christianity (safer activity).

...they even support Islam in many cases

Nice try guys..

You're confusing two issues; Atheism vs religion, and Humanism vs Anti Muslimism.

Nice try...not.

[hawker9000]

I found Sam Harris's argument in his book The End of Faith somewhat persuasive that the only intellectually coherant response to Islam is atheism.

What's the difference between a society that demands actual religious adherence, and one that bans religion entirely? Both are authoritarian. 'Seems to me the closest a society can come to real freedom is to be one that simply makes religion a personal choice, and does not allow one's practice (or choice not to practice) to infringe (truly infringe; not some make believe "emotional injury") upon someone else's free choice. Atheists have persuaded the weak-minded that any suggestion of religious practice anywhere in the public commons is a personal afront and works some sort of mental anguish on them which must be rooted out & crushed at all costs. And so, atheism itself acquires many of the characteristics of a "religion", or at least a certain "zealotry", and unfortunately one that everybody must bow down to.

I made no mention what so ever about banning any religious belief nor implied, or intended to imply, any hint of authoritarianism. I only noted one book whose argument on how to respond to Islam I personally found persuaive. I did not elaborate the argument, you should read the book for that purpose, nor did I say that there were no alternative arguments out there. I have no problem with public displays of piety and in previous threads I have been one to defend some of the missionaries up in Chiang Mai because I have been befriended by a few of the older families and find them to be good people. I understand that there are some atheists out there who indeed project a holier-than-thou persona. I am not one of those people and I actually prefer to refer to myself as a non-theist.

YOU said y-o-u found it "somewhat persuasive [a bit limp-wristed, I'll grant you] that the only intellectually coherant response to Islam is atheism". My point is that atheism, the way its adherents are progressively forcing it on the west, depends on coercion, as does Islam. It's a tyranny, too. And since atheists don't have the eggs to take on Islam, their disparagement of and endless legal challenges to open practice of Christianity and Judaism but hands-off posture when it comes to Islam helps embolden and empower Muslims who then see themselves on the rise. This lack of even-handedness is not something atheists should be proud of...

Edited September 3, 2014 by hawker9000