Does Britain have a jihadi problem?

[jacky54]

How do ordinary British Muslims feel about British jihadists?

Well, here's the view of an effected family.

'You've betrayed us': Parents of private school jihadist in emotional appeal for her to stop inciting massacre and return home from Syria

Her parents, Muzaffar and Khalida, said they were horrified that their 'sweet, peaceful, intelligent' child had joined jihadists in Syria and had hoped she would become a doctor in Britain.

In a statement issued today, they said she had 'betrayed' the family but begged for her to return home.

They said: 'We still love you, Aqsa, but we now have to put your family, your brother and sisters first as you have betrayed us, our community and the people of Scotland when you took this step.

'You have torn the heart out of our family and changed our lives forever. Please come home.'

The problem is that some Muslim folk in the UK.......... ACTUALLY want to kill people, abroad they get away with it, in the UK they will get caught...

So what the UK government plans to issue them with ASBOS- anti social behaviour orders, that should have them cacking their pants!

[7by7]

The Muslim community is campaigning against extremism; for example the fatwa issued a few days ago.

But the ignorant and the far right always dismiss these protests as 'lies' and demonise all Mulsims

As can easily be seen by posts in this topic.

Mr and Mrs Mahmood are far more representative of ordinary British Muslims than rabble-rousers like Anjem Choudrey will ever be.

[MJP]

The Muslim community is campaigning against extremism; for example the fatwa issued a few days ago.

But the ignorant and the far right always dismiss these protests as 'lies' and demonise all Mulsims

As can easily be seen by posts in this topic.

Mr and Mrs Mahmood are far more representative of ordinary British Muslims than rabble-rousers like Anjem Choudrey will ever be.

They need to do a lot more.

[Ulysses G.]

A LOT more.

[jacky54]

The Muslim community as a whole are doing SFA, just one or two muttering lip service. If 1400 Muslim girls had been raped and tortured though we would have seen just what they can do when is comes to speaking out. Don't recall any campaign by them after 9/11 or 7/7

Edited September 4, 2014 by jacky54

[MJP]

The Muslim community as a whole are doing SFA, just one or two muttering lip service. If this had been 1400 Muslim girls being raped and tortured though we would have seen just what they can do when is comes to speaking out.

I am thinking of how we bring their children home safely. Honestly, I don't want to see these kids suffer. Throughout history kids have rebelled but this ain't no Woodstock or student march.

[7by7]

I am disgusted that anyone would burn a poppy; a symbol of the men who died or were crippled fighting for our freedom in both world wars and since; including several hundred thousand Muslims; all volunteers.

I am also disgusted by vandals; including those who painted a poppy on a mosque and those who painted Islamic extremeist slogans on a war memorial and those who paint their infantile 'tags' anywhere they feel like it.

As we are getting into disgusted of Tunbridge Wells territory I am disgusted by Muslim patrols, sharia courts in the UK, child marriages, honor killings, hate preachers, segregation, public burka wearing, jihadists, and most of all paedophiles from a certain community.

Aren't we all?

For your information, all the things you list, apart from wearing a burka in public and segregation, are crimes, and those who commit them, whatever their race or religion, should be, and when caught are, subject to the full force of the law.

Burka wearing? We have freedoms in the UK; including freedom of dress. Freedoms you seem to want to destroy. Destroy for all, or just members of what you call 'a certain community?'

Segregation? Do you object to schools which only take Catholics, or C of E or Jews? Do you object to single sex schools? How about single sexed toilets; changing rooms in gyms, swimming pools, clothes shops etc.?

These are the only regularly practised forms of public segregation in the UK that I can think of; maybe you can provide more examples.

Note the word 'public.'

[jacky54]

I am disgusted that anyone would burn a poppy; a symbol of the men who died or were crippled fighting for our freedom in both world wars and since; including several hundred thousand Muslims; all volunteers.

I am also disgusted by vandals; including those who painted a poppy on a mosque and those who painted Islamic extremeist slogans on a war memorial and those who paint their infantile 'tags' anywhere they feel like it.

As we are getting into disgusted of Tunbridge Wells territory I am disgusted by Muslim patrols, sharia courts in the UK, child marriages, honor killings, hate preachers, segregation, public burka wearing, jihadists, and most of all paedophiles from a certain community.

Aren't we all?

For your information, all the things you list, apart from wearing a burka in public and segregation, are crimes,

You had better tell the dozens of sharia courts in the uk they are engaged in criminlal activities then. Also, the many Mosques that aid child marriages and mutilation not to mention hate speech. The burka should of course be banned in the UK

Edited September 4, 2014 by jacky54

[Mosha]

I am disgusted that anyone would burn a poppy; a symbol of the men who died or were crippled fighting for our freedom in both world wars and since; including several hundred thousand Muslims; all volunteers.

I am also disgusted by vandals; including those who painted a poppy on a mosque and those who painted Islamic extremeist slogans on a war memorial and those who paint their infantile 'tags' anywhere they feel like it.

As we are getting into disgusted of Tunbridge Wells territory I am disgusted by Muslim patrols, sharia courts in the UK, child marriages, honor killings, hate preachers, segregation, public burka wearing, jihadists, and most of all paedophiles from a certain community.

Aren't we all?

For your information, all the things you list, apart from wearing a burka in public and segregation, are crimes, and those who commit them, whatever their race or religion, should be, and when caught are, subject to the full force of the law.

Burka wearing? We have freedoms in the UK; including freedom of dress. Freedoms you seem to want to destroy. Destroy for all, or just members of what you call 'a certain community?'

Segregation? Do you object to schools which only take Catholics, or C of E or Jews? Do you object to single sex schools? How about single sexed toilets; changing rooms in gyms, swimming pools, clothes shops etc.?

These are the only regularly practised forms of public segregation in the UK that I can think of; maybe you can provide more examples.

Note the word 'public.'

The C of E schools near where I lived would be empty if the employed restrictions. The one I went to had RCs

[MJP]

Sky fairies of any denomination should not be allowed in the classroom.

[7by7]

(Some quotes removed to comply with forum software)

For your information, all the things you (jacky54) list, apart from wearing a burka in public and segregation, are crimes,

You had better tell the dozens of sharia courts in the uk they are engaged in criminlal activities then. Also, the many Mosques that aid child marriages and mutilation not to mention hate speech. The burka should of course be banned in the UK

Sharia courts are, like Beth Din, voluntary arbitration services for civil disputes. If parties to a dispute take that dispute to a Sharia court or Beth Din, both parties have to agree with the decision. If that decision is not compliant with UK law, it is unenforceable.

If you know of a Sharia court engaged in criminal activities, do your civic duty and immediately report it to the police.

Child marriages are illegal in the UK; if any UK mosque, or anyone else who is engaged in aiding such, they are breaking the law. If you know of any that are, do your civic duty and report them immediately to the police.

Ditto for mutilation.

Ditto for hate speech.

I think onsies worn in public are an assault to my eyes, ditto for beer bellied men in tank tops with their gut hanging over their shorts and many other forms of clothing; but I respect the rights of the individuals who wear them; you obviously don't.

[MJP]

(Some quotes removed to comply with forum software)

For your information, all the things you (jacky54) list, apart from wearing a burka in public and segregation, are crimes,

You had better tell the dozens of sharia courts in the uk they are engaged in criminlal activities then. Also, the many Mosques that aid child marriages and mutilation not to mention hate speech. The burka should of course be banned in the UK

Sharia courts are, like Beth Din, voluntary arbitration services for civil disputes. If parties to a dispute take that dispute to a Sharia court or Beth Din, both parties have to agree with the decision. If that decision is not compliant with UK law, it is unenforceable.

If you know of a Sharia court engaged in criminal activities, do your civic duty and immediately report it to the police.

Child marriages are illegal in the UK; if any UK mosque, or anyone else who is engaged in aiding such, they are breaking the law. If you know of any that are, do your civic duty and report them immediately to the police.

Ditto for mutilation.

Ditto for hate speech.

I think onsies worn in public are an assault to my eyes, ditto for beer bellied men in tank tops with their gut hanging over their shorts and many other forms of clothing; but I respect the rights of the individuals who wear them; you obviously don't.

Why can't they just use the normal courts and arbitration service like everyone else according to the law of the land?

Are Muslims somehow special? Why do they need to be treated differently to the rest of us British subjects? Sure seems like a route to segregation and a sort of apartheid to me.

[7by7]

(Some quotes removed to comply with forum software)

Segregation? Do you object to schools which only take Catholics, or C of E or Jews? Do you object to single sex schools? How about single sexed toilets; changing rooms in gyms, swimming pools, clothes shops etc.?

These are the only regularly practised forms of public segregation in the UK that I can think of; maybe you can provide more examples.

Note the word 'public.'

The C of E schools near where I lived would be empty if the employed restrictions. The one I went to had RCs

Point missed; I did not say that all faith schools only take pupils of that faith; but some do.

Do you object to that?

[7by7]

(Some quotes removed to comply with forum software)

For your information, all the things you (jacky54) list, apart from wearing a burka in public and segregation, are crimes,

You had better tell the dozens of sharia courts in the uk they are engaged in criminlal activities then. Also, the many Mosques that aid child marriages and mutilation not to mention hate speech. The burka should of course be banned in the UK

Sharia courts are, like Beth Din, voluntary arbitration services for civil disputes. If parties to a dispute take that dispute to a Sharia court or Beth Din, both parties have to agree with the decision. If that decision is not compliant with UK law, it is unenforceable.

If you know of a Sharia court engaged in criminal activities, do your civic duty and immediately report it to the police.

Child marriages are illegal in the UK; if any UK mosque, or anyone else who is engaged in aiding such, they are breaking the law. If you know of any that are, do your civic duty and report them immediately to the police.

Ditto for mutilation.

Ditto for hate speech.

I think onsies worn in public are an assault to my eyes, ditto for beer bellied men in tank tops with their gut hanging over their shorts and many other forms of clothing; but I respect the rights of the individuals who wear them; you obviously don't.

Why can't they just use the normal courts and arbitration service like everyone else according to the law of the land?

Are Muslims somehow special? Why do they need to be treated differently to the rest of us British subjects? Sure seems like a route to segregation and a sort of apartheid to me.

Sharia courts are a relative new institution in the UK.

Beth Din, the Jewish equivalent, have been around in the UK for much longer.

Do you object to them as well?*

As said, their use is entirely voluntary and their decisions will only be legally recognised, and enforceable, if a court confirms the decision; which will only happen if the court agrees with it and if it complies with UK law.

The same as the many other voluntary arbitration services which abound.

*Edit, I see from below, posted at the same time, that you do.

Edited September 4, 2014 by 7by7

[MJP]

There's Jewish courts too in Britain!!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/scandal-of-women-trapped-in-marriages-by-jewish-courts-1765888.html

This is ridiculous. You live in Britain you live under British law. Time for all this to end.

Edited September 4, 2014 by MJP

[transam]

There's Jewish courts too in Britain!!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/scandal-of-women-trapped-in-marriages-by-jewish-courts-1765888.html

This is ridiculous. You live in Britain you live under British law. Time for all this to end.

AND, why do foreign folk need something different to the land they want to live in that has a real law structure..........

[jacky54]

Sharia courts are a relative new institution in the UK.

Beth Din, the Jewish equivalent, have been around in the UK for much longer.

Do you object to them as well?

As said, their use is entirely voluntary and their decisions will only be legally recognised if they comply with UKL law.

The same as the many other voluntary arbitration services which abound.

But you just claimed sharia courts were illegal, make up your mind time, oh you have, made up your mind to drag Jews into it again, you know, that community that has lived in the UK for hundreds of years and never caused a problem

Edited September 4, 2014 by jacky54

[7by7]

Sky fairies of any denomination should not be allowed in the classroom.

I agree, for state schools.

But if parents want to send their children to a privately funded (whether by fees or a charity) faith school then, provided that school meets OFSTED standards etc., that is a choice they should be allowed to make.

[Ulysses G.]

Sharia courts are, like Beth Din, voluntary arbitration services for civil disputes. If parties to a dispute take that dispute to a Sharia court or Beth Din, both parties have to agree with the decision. If that decision is not compliant with UK law, it is unenforceable.

They are very different. This article is focused mainly on the US, but goes into the differences.

Many stealth jihadists pushing to have Shariah law instead of American civil law govern American Islamic communities are making the preposterous claim that Shariah Courts are similar to Jewish religious courts that observant Jews often use to adjudicate intra-community disputes. This is entirely inaccurate given that Shariah has as its goal the replacement of American law with Shariah, whereas Beit Din, Jewish religious court, limits its purview and has no intent or desire to flout American law.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/12/no_comparison_shariah_and_jewi.html#ixzz3CLqYuKPT

[7by7]

Sharia courts are a relative new institution in the UK.

Beth Din, the Jewish equivalent, have been around in the UK for much longer.

Do you object to them as well?

As said, their use is entirely voluntary and their decisions will only be legally recognised if they comply with UKL law.

The same as the many other voluntary arbitration services which abound.

But you just claimed sharia courts were illegal, make up your mind time, oh you have, made up your mind to drag Jews into it again, you know, that community that has lived in the UK for hundreds of years and never caused a problem

I will hold my hands up and admit I missed your reference to Sharia courts among the rest of your drivel.

Beth Din are relevant to any discussion of Sharia courts.

You either believe that both perform a valid function in civil disputes, or you agree with MJP and transam and believe that both should be banned.

Which do you believe?

[MJP]

Sky fairies of any denomination should not be allowed in the classroom.

I agree, for state schools.

But if parents want to send their children to a privately funded (whether by fees or a charity) faith school then, provided that school meets OFSTED standards etc., that is a choice they should be allowed to make.

I was forced to go to one even though my family was secular. Dunno why. Nun's beat the 5h1t out of us. Then went to another C of E this time, useless, was failing badly. Ended up in a local state school and didn't do too bad.

Just my experience, I don't trust private schools.

[jacky54]

Sky fairies of any denomination should not be allowed in the classroom.

I agree, for state schools.

But if parents want to send their children to a privately funded (whether by fees or a charity) faith school then, provided that school meets OFSTED standards etc., that is a choice they should be allowed to make.

Many Schools in Birmingham have not met ofsted standards though have they and have been found to be brainwashing the poor little kiddies under the influence of islamist teachers and governors. Islamist Schools have been found to be using Saudi text books calling Jews and Christians and Jews Pigs and Monkeys, any apologist ideas on this?

[MJP]

Sharia courts are a relative new institution in the UK.

Beth Din, the Jewish equivalent, have been around in the UK for much longer.

Do you object to them as well?

As said, their use is entirely voluntary and their decisions will only be legally recognised if they comply with UKL law.

The same as the many other voluntary arbitration services which abound.

But you just claimed sharia courts were illegal, make up your mind time, oh you have, made up your mind to drag Jews into it again, you know, that community that has lived in the UK for hundreds of years and never caused a problem

I will hold my hands up and admit I missed your reference to Sharia courts among the rest of your drivel.

Beth Din are relevant to any discussion of Sharia courts.

You either believe that both perform a valid function in civil disputes, or you agree with MJP and transam and believe that both should be banned.

Which do you believe?

Yes and it's us normal working British folk who don't say boo to a goose forever being accused of being racist and segregationist when we're the most open and accepting of any . . . increasingly I find to a fault.

Tell you what, they're right. All get out and sort out your problems elsewhere because it's obvious we're not good enough for the rest of the World and our country is a pile of 5h1t.

Edited September 4, 2014 by MJP

[Steely Dan]

Tommy seems like a reasonable sort

He speaks the complete truth but he and his organization have been dishonestly smeared by the liberal left and harassed by the police who practically give far left agitators a free ride. If just a small fraction of the effort expended to muzzle the EDL had been spent on stopping Islamist infiltration of schools and Mosques then the problems the UK would be facing now would be far less. It is my hope that one day the traitors within our midst are brought to account for their actions.

[transam]

Sky fairies of any denomination should not be allowed in the classroom.

I agree, for state schools.

But if parents want to send their children to a privately funded (whether by fees or a charity) faith school then, provided that school meets OFSTED standards etc., that is a choice they should be allowed to make.

Many Schools in Birmingham have not met ofsted standards though have they and have been found to be brainwashing the poor little kiddies under the influence of islamist teachers and governors. Islamist Schools have been found to be using Saudi text books calling Jews and Christians and Jews Pigs and Monkeys, any apologist ideas on this?

I have never said that there are not problems; but I believe that they can be solved without rounding up every British Muslim into concentration camps while the far right seek a final solution to the Muslim problem.

, you have lost the plot mon ami .......................

[jacky54]

Of course not all Islamic Schools even allow ofsted through the door, some people think they have to, they don't. They set up their own bridge inspectorate which more or less just rubber stamps extreme teachings eg that Muslims are the best of people, Jews and Chritians are pigs, gays will go to hell, stay away from unbelievers and all the rest of their nonsense. And people ask if the UK has a Jihadist problem!

[jacky54]

upps double post again

Edited September 4, 2014 by jacky54

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. I think we can discontinue the discussion of Sharia Courts and definitely Beth Din.

[Steely Dan]

Post withdrawn, crossed Scott's by four minutes. Yes the Beth-Din is an off topic diversion.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Steely Dan

[arjunadawn]

When asking if UK has a jihadi problem it is necessary to explore the various aspects of muslim integration and key indicators in UK to make a determination; IMO, of course it does. However, it is also necessary to view UK in context to better approximate exactly where the UK is in relation to the goals of jihadists ("Civilization Jihad"). For this purpose I want you to consider something from the USA, not the continent:

The USA is for many reasons not as far along as UK is regarding jihadi muslims insinuating into civil society, co opting the instruments of state as victims, and obtaining special rights (dhimmitude). The USA is a harder nut to crack for various reasons, chiefly, liberalism arrived later. However, in a significant court case in the US, the Holy-land Foundation Trial, it was determined that the global Muslim Brotherhood does have an overall seditious plan for overthrowing the government of the United States through, what the MB called "Civilization Jihad." It is hardly necessary that a person martyr themselves to serve in jihad, as this internal document points out. Please consider this and also the Center for Security Policy Working Group's Shariah: The Threat to America

http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/upload/wysiwyg/article%20pdfs/Shariah%20-%20The%20Threat%20to%20America%20%28Team%20B%20Report%29%2009142010.pdf