Thai court dismisses murder charges against former PM Abhisit

[Yann55]

This article by AFP is a perfect example of the incredibly biased, cliché-ridden, and intolerably moralizing tone which prevails in Western media when covering the Thai situation. They just keep repeating the same statements like moronic parrots, and they obviously believe it's the truth simply because their colleagues wrote the same half-lies before them, again and again.

Says the Western journalist : 'This elephant is pink because we said so, and we said so because we read it in the papers and heard it on TV.'

A striking case of wild misinformation and patronizing attitude by Western media when it comes to a part of the world most of them hardly know anything about : Asia.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Yann55

[rubl]

Court letting AV go due to technicality just like before. Coincidence or consistency.

none of the two, just a matter of law.

[Robby nz]

I could not agree more with the court.

What irritates me is the fact that the ones that whipped up the redshirts to fight, burn and destroy, their so-called leaders were never brought to court.

i wouldn't get too irritated, they'll be back in force next time, and really do the job properly

So there we have it people, right from a thaksin and red supporter, the inside information.

The red army is just biding its time till it can return and fulfill the promises of its leaders to turn the country into a sea of flame.

The grenades and bullets will fly and nothing will stand in the way of the triumphant return of the rightful great leader to rule the country as his own.

Good one Bob thanks for the heads up.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Robby nz

[96tehtarp]

The dismissal seems a lot like an amnesty to me.

Don't mention the A word.

Who me?

[metisdead]

Posts containing inflammatory comments as well as being defamatory in nature have been removed.

[northernjohn]

It said the only court with the authority to consider the allegations was the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions.

Presumably the only organisation with the power to bring a case against them to the designated "proper" court would be the NACC. One would have thought that this decision could have been made back in December 2013, when the Court accepted to hear the case. Of course that was pre-coup, Oh, well.

You are correct.

Just goes to show you how incompetent of the PTP red shirt government was. They couldn't even properly manage a bribe to free their leader of all charges.

You did a good job of spotting their incompetency. How does it feel to be on the right side for a change?

Kind of invigorating isn't it?

Edited August 28, 2014 by northernjohn

[kimamey]

Of course the murder charge was dismissed. All criminal charges against these totalitarian/fascist criminals will be dismissed. How soon for the International Court of Justice to lay charges of crimes against humanity against these murderers. Absolutely sickening what is going on in Thailand!

Look what jumped out of the box, someone not so clever it would seem.

You probably forgot that on the 31st of January 2011 the legal representatives of the UDD requested the ICC (aka International Criminal Court) to look into possible crimes against humanity. Dr. weng as Pheu Thai MP even made suggestions to temporarily grant the ICC the right to look into 'all' he thought they might need.

Till now no reaction as the ICC doesn't comment on cases in the very early stages. For a while we had Robert A. report once in a while on "progress" and "under consideration", but it has been quiet for a while now.

So, all this leaves us with 'innocent, charges dismissed'. You may now jump back into the box you come from.

(PS according to Bernard Woolley "'"Under consideration" means we've lost the file. "Under active consideration" means we're trying to find it!""

I think the ICC could only deal with Abhisit due to his dual Thai/ British nationality. Thailand hasn't signed the Rome Statute so Suthep would be outside of it's remit.

From the ICC webpage:

'The ICC is a court of last resort. It will not act if a case is investigated or prosecuted by a national judicial system unless the national proceedings are not genuine, for example if formal proceedings were undertaken solely to shield a person from criminal responsibility. In addition, the ICC only tries those accused of the gravest crimes.'

If Thailand was a signatory then they might get involved but it does say 'to shield a person' so I don't know if that could include the military as it's not a person. If it could then the fact the military weren't charged could make it something of interest to them. I think there was some idea from the last government to get them to act on this case only. I can't see how that would work as it would presumably be seen as avoiding any investigation of the war on drugs whilst targeting A and S

The reason Robert Amsterdam has been a bit quiet might be because of his white paper The Bangkok Massacres: A call for Accountability. In section 9 there is this which I hope it's OK to post.

'A review of the evidence suggests that the Abhisit administration and the Royal Thai

Army could be responsible for a series of human rights violations, possible crimes

against humanity, and a systematic campaign of political persecution. While it is the

Thai government’s duty under International Law to investigate its own abuses and

bring those responsible to justice, it is the moral responsibility of the international

community to ensure that the possible criminal conduct of the regime is not the

subject of a cover-up. Indeed, it is now clear that only international pressure and

incisive international involvement can assure that the government-led investigation

into the Bangkok Massacres is not merely an exercise in obfuscation — one leading to

the same kind of whitewash that has shielded from justice those responsible for every

major episode of state violence in the history of Thailand.'

That was written in July 2010 whilst Abhisit was still PM and he makes some valid points about the then government's investigations. After 2011 PTP were the ones responsible under international law for bring justice and we can see what they did. As Fab4 has pointed out RA was and maybe still is working for the UDD and not PTP although as far as I know he used to work for Thaksin. The UDD leaders have stated on many occasions that they wanted justice for those killed in 2010 but they will have known as well as we do that justice wasn't being sought at all and apart from the spat over the amnesty because it included A and S they have supported the government that went against the duties that RA mentioned.

If you look at RA's 'Letter to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) Concerning Abhisit’s Criminal Liability' he only mentions Abhisit as he's got dual nationality.

http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/2012/12/13/letter-to-the-prosecutor-of-the-international-criminal-court-icc-concerning-abhisits-criminal-liability/

He refers to the United Nations “Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials.”

Looking at these it does appear at first sight that the ROE overstepped these guidelines but notice that they apply to 'law enforcement officials'. They apply to the military if they are performing the role of law enforcement officials. To start with that was clearly the case as they were performing the duties of the police but I would say that by the time the deaths occurred they had gone beyond that. In many western countries it might be different as they have specialised police units to deal with violent demonstrations although it's unlikely they would have let it get this far. As far as I know Thailand doesn't have these or they would have been there instead of the army. Based on this there might have been a case based on this but that can't happen with a one sided implementation such as this.

One other interesting thing about RA's white paper is his attitude towards the emergency decree. He does call it onerous but apart from that he concentrates on the fact he believes it should have been used. At first sight this is strange given that he often claims to be a supporter of human rights and when the emergency decree was put in place it was widely condemned by human rights groups. Once you get to the bottom and see it was countersigned by the PM at the time, Thaksin it's not so strange after all.

[northernjohn]

I could not agree more with the court.

What irritates me is the fact that the ones that whipped up the redshirts to fight, burn and destroy, their so-called leaders were never brought to court.

i wouldn't get too irritated, they'll be back in force next time, and really do the job properly

What? Not my "peaceful protesters, not terrorists" surely?

It's people like you who give the UDD a bad name

I wouldn't blame them if they cleaned up the fascist farung sympathisers too

Do you even know what a fascist is?

What was the definition they gave at red shirt school for democracy?

[northernjohn]

It said the only court with the authority to consider the allegations was the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions.

Presumably the only organisation with the power to bring a case against them to the designated "proper" court would be the NACC.

Nope.

DSI's Tarit could have brought the case... but instead chose the different (and ridiculous) to charge them as civilians/private citizens, thus resulting in the dismissal of the case.

This decision by the criminal court is the only logical and legal one to make as it was doomed from the beginning due to Tarit's nonsensical path.

Let face it there was no such thing as a sensible government.

First clue "was give me six months:" Next clue was turning down an American offer to supply fresh water to where it was needed. There answer was no we have a lot stored at Don Muang doing nothing. But did you see the picture of Yingluck handing out a bag of food in the news Papers. Third clue was turning down help in water management from the Netherlands the worlds leading experts on it. fourth clue was sending Yingluck on a tour of the country in a partially competent Helicopter.

Then things started to go down hill.

[metisdead]

Posts using derogatory nicknames or intentional misspelling of people’s names will be removed. If you don’t want your post to be removed, spell people’s names correctly.

[Frank James]

The Beat goes on.

I sure would like to see Suthep with his head shaved and wearing the saffron robes. Now that the heat's off he can go back to being a worm.

[boomerangutang]

The charge was political anyway by the Shin government. Why should Abhisit have been charged with murder when he was doing his duty as PM to disperse the crowds. He didn't plot to kill them.

Yes, completely political. At the time the charges were filed, The Shinawatre cronies were trying desperately to get the Shinawatre scoundrel cleared of all his trespasses. Like little punk kids they thought that threatening Abhisit would compel the opposition to parley. When Abhisit smiled and said, "Go ahead and indict me" it foiled their mud-slinging plan. What a peurile bunch of dimwits in Yingluck's inner circle.

[Baerboxer]

The Thai elite have been killing their own people for years and getting away with it, why on Earth did folks think it was going to be any different this time around?

There has to be some sort of accountability from politicians and military for the deaths, regardless of the circumstances at the time. In any civilised society this is a bare minimum. In ruling they have no jurisdiction they are preventing the truth from being known.

No doubt they will attempt to yet again foist this objectionable upper class twit who's father supported the odious dictator Suchinda upon the poor Thai populace. It runs in the Vejjajiva family.

Dark days ahead indeed as we have seen the rural Thais still haven't forgotten Democrat bitter medicine policies from the late 90's, and the cycle looks to continually repeat itself in the future, as they will never accept a government they haven't chosen, hence the attempts to cheat the system by the junta.

In 2010 Thaksin told his red shirts to fight the army and that he was very near to Thailand and would come back to help them if the army would open fire on them. Remember those famous words?

Red shirt leader Jatuporn, natthawut etc have also told their supporters numerous times to fight the army. Even told them to burn down the city.

You don't mention them in your propaganda piece. Why not?

Nickymaster did you even take a split second to think about what you typed?

I didn't see Thaksin in the protest, you don't mention that in your propaganda piece. Why not?

So some person from a distant land says attack and even though they don't attack just because it was said it justifies the slaughter? WOW talk about a weak gene pool.

If that is OK, then if you ever tell anyone to attack/fight back for what you/they feel is your/their freedom then in your home country shouldn't they then attack and kill, your friends and/or family because that's basically what you said as your response. I for one wouldn't raise any concern if it happen like that to you in return.

So Yingluck fires someone from their post and gets removed, with a COUP to follow, Abhisit murders people and even gets busted on video talking about it and nothing to see here move along. Sounds like that gene pool is expanding.

This country will never see a posative change until fairness is fully enfourced for all people. When a PM runs around murdering people in a protest and walks away from it you can bet the future holds even worst things to come.

Be careful. Do you have proof to your statement that Abhisit "murdered"people. Read what the court said.

That was a peaceful protest. which if you were here, you would know. It was armed rebellion being whipped into a frenzy by the fugitive video star for his own ends.

If anyone should be charge he should - for incitement and treason. But the AG said although there was plenty of video evidence he wasn't in the country at the time so there was no reason to charge him. That was when his sister was PM of course.

[retarius]

So zero accountability for 100 plus deaths. Disgusting.

[ThavonsoukResortLaos]

The Thai elite have been killing their own people for years and getting away with it, why on Earth did folks think it was going to be any different this time around?

There has to be some sort of accountability from politicians and military for the deaths, regardless of the circumstances at the time. In any civilised society this is a bare minimum. In ruling they have no jurisdiction they are preventing the truth from being known.

No doubt they will attempt to yet again foist this objectionable upper class twit who's father supported the odious dictator Suchinda upon the poor Thai populace. It runs in the Vejjajiva family.

Dark days ahead indeed as we have seen the rural Thais still haven't forgotten Democrat bitter medicine policies from the late 90's, and the cycle looks to continually repeat itself in the future, as they will never accept a government they haven't chosen, hence the attempts to cheat the system by the junta.

I'd you don't like it you can always leave because it appears no one cares what you say

Well you obviously care or you would not have bothered to reply, whether he is right or wrong is irrelevant....pehaps no one cares what you say either ?

And who says he actually lives in thailand ?

[Eric Loh]

The Beat goes on.

I sure would like to see Suthep with his head shaved and wearing the saffron robes. Now that the heat's off he can go back to being a worm.

Must said that the shaven head and saffron robe have worked their charm in court. Expect him to disrobe quickly and get back to being a scoundrel and manipulator.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"The surprise ruling comes three months after the military seized power"

No surprise at all.

​ I am surprised we haven´t yet heard that leaders of similar powers such as North Korea haven´t yet congratulated MP Prayuth on his glorious victory being voted PM.

I am sure Suthep and Kim jong-un can advise him how to deal with the 3 abstentions. So like "The Brilliant Comrade" he can get 100% of the vote next time.

I hope no one will ask Prayuth any awkward or difficult questions over this decision.

Fabie on rest break?

[Eric Loh]

The Thai elite have been killing their own people for years and getting away with it, why on Earth did folks think it was going to be any different this time around?

There has to be some sort of accountability from politicians and military for the deaths, regardless of the circumstances at the time. In any civilised society this is a bare minimum. In ruling they have no jurisdiction they are preventing the truth from being known.

No doubt they will attempt to yet again foist this objectionable upper class twit who's father supported the odious dictator Suchinda upon the poor Thai populace. It runs in the Vejjajiva family.

Dark days ahead indeed as we have seen the rural Thais still haven't forgotten Democrat bitter medicine policies from the late 90's, and the cycle looks to continually repeat itself in the future, as they will never accept a government they haven't chosen, hence the attempts to cheat the system by the junta.

In 2010 Thaksin told his red shirts to fight the army and that he was very near to Thailand and would come back to help them if the army would open fire on them. Remember those famous words?

Red shirt leader Jatuporn, natthawut etc have also told their supporters numerous times to fight the army. Even told them to burn down the city.

You don't mention them in your propaganda piece. Why not?

Nickymaster did you even take a split second to think about what you typed?

I didn't see Thaksin in the protest, you don't mention that in your propaganda piece. Why not?

So some person from a distant land says attack and even though they don't attack just because it was said it justifies the slaughter? WOW talk about a weak gene pool.

If that is OK, then if you ever tell anyone to attack/fight back for what you/they feel is your/their freedom then in your home country shouldn't they then attack and kill, your friends and/or family because that's basically what you said as your response. I for one wouldn't raise any concern if it happen like that to you in return.

So Yingluck fires someone from their post and gets removed, with a COUP to follow, Abhisit murders people and even gets busted on video talking about it and nothing to see here move along. Sounds like that gene pool is expanding.

This country will never see a posative change until fairness is fully enfourced for all people. When a PM runs around murdering people in a protest and walks away from it you can bet the future holds even worst things to come.

Be careful. Do you have proof to your statement that Abhisit "murdered"people. Read what the court said.

That was a peaceful protest. which if you were here, you would know. It was armed rebellion being whipped into a frenzy by the fugitive video star for his own ends.

If anyone should be charge he should - for incitement and treason. But the AG said although there was plenty of video evidence he wasn't in the country at the time so there was no reason to charge him. That was when his sister was PM of course.

Does it matter whether there are evidence. The court dismiss the case due to technicality - wrong court. All the proof and evidence will go to the shredder. Court is a real joke. A serious case ruled out by technicality.

[emilymat]

So zero accountability for 100 plus deaths. Disgusting.

Quite so. On this thread there are frankly too many 'experts' using vitriolic and at times almost fanatical hyperbole to lambast each other, and to get any clear logic is almost impossible.I have no strong view on the outcome of the courts decision because, quite frankly, I find Thai politics and the legal system bizarre.

What I do know is that many of the red protesters were shot clean through the head by marksmen. If that's a normal government reaction to clearing a demonstration then I despair. Also, although I live down south, I went to the red shirt area at the time of the demo's (The UK visa office was on the fringe of the area). I saw no people being 'whipped up'.

[kimamey]

Well, what else can you expect from a captive judiciary?

There was never a doubt what the verdict would be, assuming the judge wanted to keep his job.

The old biased courts defence again. Have you actually bothered to read the report or the evidence we have seen so far? I guess not. The court hasn't said they are innocent just that they can't deal with the charges as that's the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions. If they had gone ahead any verdict could have been overturned as it was outside their authority.

Even if it went to the correct court and I hope it does it won't come to much since the army are the ones accused of firing the shots but Tarit decided to protect them from investigation. The evidence so far from those biased courts is that the army fired on unarmed people who presented no danger so should not have been shot under the terms of the ROE given to the army by Abhisit.

Still don't let facts stop you.

[tezzainoz]

The Thai elite have been killing their own people for years and getting away with it, why on Earth did folks think it was going to be any different this time around?

There has to be some sort of accountability from politicians and military for the deaths, regardless of the circumstances at the time. In any civilised society this is a bare minimum. In ruling they have no jurisdiction they are preventing the truth from being known.

No doubt they will attempt to yet again foist this objectionable upper class twit who's father supported the odious dictator Suchinda upon the poor Thai populace. It runs in the Vejjajiva family.

Dark days ahead indeed as we have seen the rural Thais still haven't forgotten Democrat bitter medicine policies from the late 90's, and the cycle looks to continually repeat itself in the future, as they will never accept a government they haven't chosen, hence the attempts to cheat the system by the junta.

In 2010 Thaksin told his red shirts to fight the army and that he was very near to Thailand and would come back to help them if the army would open fire on them. Remember those famous words?

Red shirt leader Jatuporn, natthawut etc have also told their supporters numerous times to fight the army. Even told them to burn down the city.

You don't mention them in your propaganda piece. Why not?

You conveniently miss the point about accountability in your Thaksin-obsessed rant.

Doesn't matter what was said, people died, and there's been no accountability or transparency to date.

That lack of transparency is deliberate IMO to stop the facts from becoming public.

Maybe this will answer who was responsible

[kimamey]

In 2010 Thaksin told his red shirts to fight the army and that he was very near to Thailand and would come back to help them if the army would open fire on them. Remember those famous words?

Red shirt leader Jatuporn, natthawut etc have also told their supporters numerous times to fight the army. Even told them to burn down the city.

You don't mention them in your propaganda piece. Why not?

Nickymaster did you even take a split second to think about what you typed?

I didn't see Thaksin in the protest, you don't mention that in your propaganda piece. Why not?

So some person from a distant land says attack and even though they don't attack just because it was said it justifies the slaughter? WOW talk about a weak gene pool.

If that is OK, then if you ever tell anyone to attack/fight back for what you/they feel is your/their freedom then in your home country shouldn't they then attack and kill, your friends and/or family because that's basically what you said as your response. I for one wouldn't raise any concern if it happen like that to you in return.

So Yingluck fires someone from their post and gets removed, with a COUP to follow, Abhisit murders people and even gets busted on video talking about it and nothing to see here move along. Sounds like that gene pool is expanding.

This country will never see a posative change until fairness is fully enfourced for all people. When a PM runs around murdering people in a protest and walks away from it you can bet the future holds even worst things to come.

Be careful. Do you have proof to your statement that Abhisit "murdered"people. Read what the court said.

That was a peaceful protest. which if you were here, you would know. It was armed rebellion being whipped into a frenzy by the fugitive video star for his own ends.

If anyone should be charge he should - for incitement and treason. But the AG said although there was plenty of video evidence he wasn't in the country at the time so there was no reason to charge him. That was when his sister was PM of course.

Does it matter whether there are evidence. The court dismiss the case due to technicality - wrong court. All the proof and evidence will go to the shredder. Court is a real joke. A serious case ruled out by technicality.

The joke is the idiots who should know better who sent it to the wrong court and didn't include those who fired the shots in the list of accused. The lawyers for Abhisit and Suthep said it was the wrong court, even on here people knew it was the wrong court but still they went ahead.

Yes it does matter if there is evidence but I guess people like Tarit and the rest of the ones who tried to bring this case will hope it's shredded as it almost certainly won't get the result they were hoping for.

Hopefully there will still be a proper investigation to bring justice to those who were shot mostly without any justification.

[Bluespunk]

Court letting AV go due to technicality just like before. Coincidence or consistency.

Neither but you keep on dreaming up your conspiracy theories.

[Robroona]

So zero accountability for 100 plus deaths. Disgusting.

In the cases of Abhisit ans Suthep, you are correct.

However, if there is ever a proper, clean, uncorrupted day of reckoning, then we would see the blame trail going in the opposite direction

[kimamey]

The Thai elite have been killing their own people for years and getting away with it, why on Earth did folks think it was going to be any different this time around?

There has to be some sort of accountability from politicians and military for the deaths, regardless of the circumstances at the time. In any civilised society this is a bare minimum. In ruling they have no jurisdiction they are preventing the truth from being known.

No doubt they will attempt to yet again foist this objectionable upper class twit who's father supported the odious dictator Suchinda upon the poor Thai populace. It runs in the Vejjajiva family.

Dark days ahead indeed as we have seen the rural Thais still haven't forgotten Democrat bitter medicine policies from the late 90's, and the cycle looks to continually repeat itself in the future, as they will never accept a government they haven't chosen, hence the attempts to cheat the system by the junta.

There does need to be accountability from politicians and the military and Abhisit and Suthep were prepared to go to court to defend themselves. It's not their fault or the fault of the criminal court that it was sent to them when it was obvious they couldn't hear the case. The lawyers told them this but they ignored it. I suspect the idea was that it would get thrown out without the evidence being heard which was unlikely to back up the charges anyway but it could still be used to discredit Abhisit.

What evidence do you have that Abhisit is 'objectionable'? Is it the class he was born into which is hardly his fault or the actions of his father which were not his fault either?

As for his class, have you seen where he lived after he was born in Princess Mary Maternity Hospital Newcastle, an NHS hospital?

http://goo.gl/maps/rWZQ7

It's the one with the blue car in front. The door is on the left and it's the upstairs flat with 2 bedrooms. Very palatial and upper class.

As for a government they haven't chosen remember that Thaksin wasn't in the election but still seems have had a lot of control and didn't trust most of the elected members of his party. Add to that the case in this thread and I think you can see who's really objectionable.

[Robroona]

So zero accountability for 100 plus deaths. Disgusting.

Quite so. On this thread there are frankly too many 'experts' using vitriolic and at times almost fanatical hyperbole to lambast each other, and to get any clear logic is almost impossible.I have no strong view on the outcome of the courts decision because, quite frankly, I find Thai politics and the legal system bizarre.

What I do know is that many of the red protesters were shot clean through the head by marksmen. If that's a normal government reaction to clearing a demonstration then I despair. Also, although I live down south, I went to the red shirt area at the time of the demo's (The UK visa office was on the fringe of the area). I saw no people being 'whipped up'.

So you visited the Embassy for exactly how long? Most of us are there for as short a time as possible. So, in the short time you were there, with your excellent Thai skills, in the baking heat, you never saw any propaganda being spouted? Did you think the fiery orators were waiting for you to happen along?

Did you miss the speeches about bringing gasoline into Bangkok? About setting fire to the city? Did you even watch TV or read the newspapers?

Thank you for your expert comments

[gchurch259]

"Abhisit's establishment-backed government in 2010 in street clashes between mostly unarmed "Red Shirt" demonstrators and security forces firing live rounds in Bangkok."

This AFP is getting tiresome.

Interesting choice of words "mostly unarmed", so less see there are maybe 4,000 people in the streets and only 10 of them have an AK47 or a pocket full of Grenades and we should assume no one will get hurt by them ?

Probably some of those unarmed that burned Central World, blocked the main streets/intersections for too many days/weeks before the government had enough.

In my 10 years in Thailand I have enjoyed knowing some very nice and honorable people, but Thailand is a violent place to live. You really need to be careful when and where you go.

[tbthailand]

Junta check list

Reconciliation... Done.

Edited August 28, 2014 by tbthailand

[Baerboxer]

Be careful. Do you have proof to your statement that Abhisit "murdered"people. Read what the court said.

That was a peaceful protest. which if you were here, you would know. It was armed rebellion being whipped into a frenzy by the fugitive video star for his own ends.

If anyone should be charge he should - for incitement and treason. But the AG said although there was plenty of video evidence he wasn't in the country at the time so there was no reason to charge him. That was when his sister was PM of course.

Does it matter whether there are evidence. The court dismiss the case due to technicality - wrong court. All the proof and evidence will go to the shredder. Court is a real joke. A serious case ruled out by technicality.

Unbelievable. Does it matter if there's evidence?? Cause'not - Thaksin spoke, Tharit innovated and voila - trumped up charge never intended to go to court. All to put pressure for Thaksin's top priority self amnesty. The "technical" mistake was made by the lackey Tharit in trying to manipulate the system and charge them as private citizens. The same guy who said Yinggy couldn't be charged with purjury as she only lied as a witness not the defendant. All to please the boss.

The whole shambles of PTP members and Tharit suing anyone for anything and trying to make the rules up as they went along was one big joke.

[96tehtarp]

One man's reconciliation is another man's amnesty.