Please Help us get out of Thailand

[samran]

"Not strictly true. In reality there will be paperwork to do. That is presuming the child may want to reside in Thailand in the future. It isn't difficult. You just have to be aware of the situation."

Which part do you disagree with?

" If he never lives here full time before age 30 he doesn't have to worry about it."

This bit. There is still paperwork to do! But it's not a major problem.

I don't understand. I actually did this.

I had no paperwork to do.

What paperwork are you suggesting that needed to be done?

It was a guy that had to get ID card after 30 (he was 34) he had to have an interview with army as he had no paperwork as to why he didn't do conscription lottery.

ID card issuance doesn't require any documents from the military. Passports used to but that was done away with more than a 15 odd years ago, at least.

Well it happened so dunno why. I will ask!

.

Please do.

[Waterloo]

Op thanks for posting it never occurred to me this scenario was even possible, most en-lighting, have a safe journey home.

[PaulTarpey]

While I wait for my passport I have had a couple of supportive calls from the British Embassy. The first one was a few days ago when it was suggested to me that it might be possible to get Emergency Travel Docs from Thai Government - don't have the numbers to hand at the mo.

Did not do anything with the numbers because had already sorted the Blue Book.

Just got another call back from the Embassy to see how I was (quite nice to be honest!). The interesting titbit (and reason for my post) is that the Gentleman calling said all the years he had been there I was the first to call with this issue and suddenly within the last couple of days he has had a few more.

[tifino]

While I wait for my passport I have had a couple of supportive calls from the British Embassy. The first one was a few days ago when it was suggested to me that it might be possible to get Emergency Travel Docs from Thai Government - don't have the numbers to hand at the mo.

Did not do anything with the numbers because had already sorted the Blue Book.

Just got another call back from the Embassy to see how I was (quite nice to be honest!). The interesting titbit (and reason for my post) is that the Gentleman calling said all the years he had been there I was the first to call with this issue and suddenly within the last couple of days he has had a few more.

probably a formed-precedent, from all the dudes watching this same programme on (the) TV

[thedemon]

Regarding conscription, I believe that anyone that doesn't speak Thai is not accepted so that is possibly an easy out if and when that becomes an issue.

Good luck with the passport. Sounds like you almost have it sorted though.

[GOLDBUGGY]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

As a note also, be very careful in the future on how you use dual citizenship. The passport you use to enter a country on can determine your present citizenship.

I knew a guy who also had duel citizenship with Canada and decide to go home to visit some family in the middle east. Since it was easier to enter using his old passport he went that way. But almost as soon as he got home he was drafted into the army and was not allowed to leave. This could been the same case of your son if he was 20 years old at the time when he came here.

Not sure how it all ended for him, but I am sure he did not get the holiday he expected.

And this has absolutely no relevance to the OP. Has already been explained clearly that the draft works differently here.

My Post wasn't directed to the Op as we all already know his Son is too young to be drafted. It was directed at other members here who may be reading this thread and are considering doing the same thing with their son to save on Visa Costs, but who they may have a Thai Son of Draft Age.

Not sure what you mean in that "the draft works differently here". If you mean the USA uses a draft system only in times of war, whereas Thailand uses a Mandatory Draft System, where all young men of age must report for army duty, baring a good reason like physical health reasons or attending further studies like university, then you would be right.

But having a good reason, like being out of country or going to university, does not release them from this obligation. Many times it only postpones things. So by bringing your 20 Year Old Son to Thailand and using his Dual Citizenship Thai Passport, you may be exposing him to the possibility of him being put in the army.

I do realize that not all post made here apply to you directly. Or may not just benefit you personally. But perhaps it is better at times to just keep quiet then, and not criticize everything you see that you have no idea about or do not understand to begin with.

[samran]

As a note also, be very careful in the future on how you use dual citizenship. The passport you use to enter a country on can determine your present citizenship.

I knew a guy who also had duel citizenship with Canada and decide to go home to visit some family in the middle east. Since it was easier to enter using his old passport he went that way. But almost as soon as he got home he was drafted into the army and was not allowed to leave. This could been the same case of your son if he was 20 years old at the time when he came here.

Not sure how it all ended for him, but I am sure he did not get the holiday he expected.

And this has absolutely no relevance to the OP. Has already been explained clearly that the draft works differently here.

My Post wasn't directed to the Op as we all already know his Son is too young to be drafted. It was directed at other members here who may be reading this thread and are considering doing the same thing with their son to save on Visa Costs, but who they may have a Thai Son of Draft Age.

Not sure what you mean in that "the draft works differently here". If you mean the USA uses a draft system only in times of war, whereas Thailand uses a Mandatory Draft System, where all young men of age must report for army duty, baring a good reason like physical health reasons or attending further studies like university, then you would be right.

But having a good reason, like being out of country or going to university, does not release them from this obligation. Many times it only postpones things. So by bringing your 20 Year Old Son to Thailand and using his Dual Citizenship Thai Passport, you may be exposing him to the possibility of him being put in the army.

I do realize that not all post made here apply to you directly. Or may not just benefit you personally. But perhaps it is better at times to just keep quiet then, and not criticize everything you see that you have no idea about or do not understand to begin with.

Um, I'm an overseas born Thai citizen who had to get myself registered here and also sort my military obligations. All according to the rules.

So I have a very clear idea about this. All of it.

[hdkane]

Seriously...I have found in the vast majority of circumstances that we have created our own problems...

[lopburi3]

This rightfully appeared to be a simple obtaining of a new passport issue - there is no way most people would understand the technical implications involved because of the overseas birth - they had already obtained Thai passport in the past so one would logically believe even easier to do in Thailand. That we know better due to others experience and reporting here is great - but in some cases there is no fault involved.

[p_brownstone]

As a note also, be very careful in the future on how you use dual citizenship. The passport you use to enter a country on can determine your present citizenship.

I knew a guy who also had duel citizenship with Canada and decide to go home to visit some family in the middle east. Since it was easier to enter using his old passport he went that way. But almost as soon as he got home he was drafted into the army and was not allowed to leave. This could been the same case of your son if he was 20 years old at the time when he came here.

Not sure how it all ended for him, but I am sure he did not get the holiday he expected.

And this has absolutely no relevance to the OP. Has already been explained clearly that the draft works differently here.

My Post wasn't directed to the Op as we all already know his Son is too young to be drafted. It was directed at other members here who may be reading this thread and are considering doing the same thing with their son to save on Visa Costs, but who they may have a Thai Son of Draft Age.

Not sure what you mean in that "the draft works differently here". If you mean the USA uses a draft system only in times of war, whereas Thailand uses a Mandatory Draft System, where all young men of age must report for army duty, baring a good reason like physical health reasons or attending further studies like university, then you would be right.

But having a good reason, like being out of country or going to university, does not release them from this obligation. Many times it only postpones things. So by bringing your 20 Year Old Son to Thailand and using his Dual Citizenship Thai Passport, you may be exposing him to the possibility of him being put in the army.

I do realize that not all post made here apply to you directly. Or may not just benefit you personally. But perhaps it is better at times to just keep quiet then, and not criticize everything you see that you have no idea about or do not understand to begin with.

Um, I'm an overseas born Thai citizen who had to get myself registered here and also sort my military obligations. All according to the rules.

So I have a very clear idea about this. All of it.

Also GOLDBUGGY is incorrect when he claims that "Thailand uses a Mandatory Draft System, where all young men of age must report for army duty".

When the Draft "season" comes around each Armed Forces Region has a Quota for new recruits, and depending on the Area much of this Quota may be filled by volunteers and only the balance has to be filled by the Draft which takes the form of a Lottery. The chance of picking a "lucky" card and being drafted varies, again depending upon the Region, the number of vacancies to fill and the number of candidates participating.

Patrick

[thedemon]

Also GOLDBUGGY is incorrect when he claims that "Thailand uses a Mandatory Draft System, where all young men of age must report for army duty".

When the Draft "season" comes around each Armed Forces Region has a Quota for new recruits, and depending on the Area much of this Quota may be filled by volunteers and only the balance has to be filled by the Draft which takes the form of a Lottery. The chance of picking a "lucky" card and being drafted varies, again depending upon the Region, the number of vacancies to fill and the number of candidates participating.

Patrick

Patrick is correct on this point. Many Bangkok Thai-Chinese have been exploiting this loophole for years by moving the registration of their draft age sons to an upcountry location where the number of volunteers exceeds the quota.

[simple1]

Also GOLDBUGGY is incorrect when he claims that "Thailand uses a Mandatory Draft System, where all young men of age must report for army duty".

When the Draft "season" comes around each Armed Forces Region has a Quota for new recruits, and depending on the Area much of this Quota may be filled by volunteers and only the balance has to be filled by the Draft which takes the form of a Lottery. The chance of picking a "lucky" card and being drafted varies, again depending upon the Region, the number of vacancies to fill and the number of candidates participating.

Patrick

Patrick is correct on this point. Many Bangkok Thai-Chinese have been exploiting this loophole for years by moving the registration of their draft age sons to an upcountry location where the number of volunteers exceeds the quota.

Wouldn't it be easier for them to pay the 40k baht, or whatever the current rate is, to the Amphur for dispensation from the lottery? Members of my Thai family have taken this route.

[Arkady]

Regarding conscription, I believe that anyone that doesn't speak Thai is not accepted so that is possibly an easy out if and when that becomes an issue.

Good luck with the passport. Sounds like you almost have it sorted though.

This not necessarily the case. There have been reports of look krungs brought up overseas who could barely speak Thai being gratefully accepted by the military and, after boot camp, being assigned to English teaching, editing, speech writing etc. Some military officers are smart enough to see them as a valuable resource and there is morally no reason why they should be treated differently from any other Thai citizens on the tabien baan list. The law allows them to renounce their Thai citizenship at 20, if they don't want it and having gone through the draft is not a condition.

Countries like Singapore make them do national service before letting them give up Singaporean citizenship. Singaporeans living overseas who come back and are caught having another nationality over the age of majority have been stripped of their nationality but forced to do national service anyway.

The Thai system is a lot more flexible but you need to do you homework and line your ducks up facing in the right direction before you start.

[Arkady]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

As a note also, be very careful in the future on how you use dual citizenship. The passport you use to enter a country on can determine your present citizenship.

I knew a guy who also had duel citizenship with Canada and decide to go home to visit some family in the middle east. Since it was easier to enter using his old passport he went that way. But almost as soon as he got home he was drafted into the army and was not allowed to leave. This could been the same case of your son if he was 20 years old at the time when he came here.

Not sure how it all ended for him, but I am sure he did not get the holiday he expected.

And this has absolutely no relevance to the OP. Has already been explained clearly that the draft works differently here.

My Post wasn't directed to the Op as we all already know his Son is too young to be drafted. It was directed at other members here who may be reading this thread and are considering doing the same thing with their son to save on Visa Costs, but who they may have a Thai Son of Draft Age.

Not sure what you mean in that "the draft works differently here". If you mean the USA uses a draft system only in times of war, whereas Thailand uses a Mandatory Draft System, where all young men of age must report for army duty, baring a good reason like physical health reasons or attending further studies like university, then you would be right.

But having a good reason, like being out of country or going to university, does not release them from this obligation. Many times it only postpones things. So by bringing your 20 Year Old Son to Thailand and using his Dual Citizenship Thai Passport, you may be exposing him to the possibility of him being put in the army.

I do realize that not all post made here apply to you directly. Or may not just benefit you personally. But perhaps it is better at times to just keep quiet then, and not criticize everything you see that you have no idea about or do not understand to begin with.

They can get Thai passports at consulates overseas without registering on a tabien baan. That means they can use their Thai passports to travel to Thailand without risk of getting drafted. At over 30 they are too old for the draft and can get on a tabien baan and get an ID, if they want to live in Thailand or need an ID card to buy land. Otherwise there is no need for a tabien baan or ID card.

[PaulTarpey]

Update - Got passport !

I have the passport in my hand! Noticeable differences are the colour (it is a brown rather than red/burgendy) and the photo page - now has an id number instead of a blank number. Instead of the page saying he is Thai born and registered in London it has the standard ministry of forgeign affairs statement.

Passport service in Thailand is extremely efficient!

I called up the airline (EVA) and they have booked us going out Monday at a cost of £75 each rebooking rather than a full new flight cost. I was expecting the latter tbh.

So today is a good day.

Thanks to everyone here for your comments - positive and negative ! I loved all of them. And thanks for your help !

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Good news, indeed, have a nice trip back home.....

Mac

[larsjohnsson]

Good luck

[thedemon]

Regarding conscription, I believe that anyone that doesn't speak Thai is not accepted so that is possibly an easy out if and when that becomes an issue.

Good luck with the passport. Sounds like you almost have it sorted though.

This not necessarily the case. There have been reports of look krungs brought up overseas who could barely speak Thai being gratefully accepted by the military and, after boot camp, being assigned to English teaching, editing, speech writing etc. Some military officers are smart enough to see them as a valuable resource and there is morally no reason why they should be treated differently from any other Thai citizens on the tabien baan list. The law allows them to renounce their Thai citizenship at 20, if they don't want it and having gone through the draft is not a condition. Countries like Singapore make them do national service before letting them give up Singaporean citizenship.

That's interesting. I stand corrected.

[stevenl]

Excellent news, and thanks for the updates.

[samran]

Regarding conscription, I believe that anyone that doesn't speak Thai is not accepted so that is possibly an easy out if and when that becomes an issue.

Good luck with the passport. Sounds like you almost have it sorted though.

This not necessarily the case. There have been reports of look krungs brought up overseas who could barely speak Thai being gratefully accepted by the military and, after boot camp, being assigned to English teaching, editing, speech writing etc. Some military officers are smart enough to see them as a valuable resource and there is morally no reason why they should be treated differently from any other Thai citizens on the tabien baan list. The law allows them to renounce their Thai citizenship at 20, if they don't want it and having gone through the draft is not a condition. Countries like Singapore make them do national service before letting them give up Singaporean citizenship.

That's interesting. I stand corrected.

I've seen regulations where children of foreign fathers are not accepted into officer training schools.

At the grunt level, I've also seen people both accepted and rejected given their (non) language skills.

It certainly isn't in the rules however that language is a requirement, which I've read top to bottom.

Some have argued here on TV that a civil servant must have a certain level Thai educational attainment, pointing to the fact that a military member is also a civil servant. Which would have ruled me out on a strict black and white reading of the rules....but again, I haven't seen that written in the consciption rules, and I know Thai's who work for the civil service who have primarily been educated overseas. Indeed, some sections of the civil service give more flexible access to the civil service if you have got a masters from overseas.

If it the educational rules are written in somewhere, I haven't seen them and they certainly don't apply to me (fully educated OS). When I got my waiver at 30, all it was was a waiver from active service. I'm offically, like most Thai's, a member of the reserves (class 2, division, 2; rightdown the bottom!!). I wouldn't even be there were there a educational requirement!

[samran]

Update - Got passport !

I have the passport in my hand! Noticeable differences are the colour (it is a brown rather than red/burgendy) and the photo page - now has an id number instead of a blank number. Instead of the page saying he is Thai born and registered in London it has the standard ministry of forgeign affairs statement.

Passport service in Thailand is extremely efficient!

I called up the airline (EVA) and they have booked us going out Monday at a cost of £75 each rebooking rather than a full new flight cost. I was expecting the latter tbh.

So today is a good day.

Thanks to everyone here for your comments - positive and negative ! I loved all of them. And thanks for your help !

I know he's not 7 yet, but Thai ID's can be renewed now in London. Not sure if that means he can get his first one there (if not, it will be a 30 minute jobbie on the next trip), but from then on, he can certainly do it all in the UK.

[CRUNCHER]

It's good news day. Have a safe journey.

[Arkady]

Regarding conscription, I believe that anyone that doesn't speak Thai is not accepted so that is possibly an easy out if and when that becomes an issue.

Good luck with the passport. Sounds like you almost have it sorted though.

This not necessarily the case. There have been reports of look krungs brought up overseas who could barely speak Thai being gratefully accepted by the military and, after boot camp, being assigned to English teaching, editing, speech writing etc. Some military officers are smart enough to see them as a valuable resource and there is morally no reason why they should be treated differently from any other Thai citizens on the tabien baan list. The law allows them to renounce their Thai citizenship at 20, if they don't want it and having gone through the draft is not a condition. Countries like Singapore make them do national service before letting them give up Singaporean citizenship.

That's interesting. I stand corrected.

I've seen regulations where children of foreign fathers are not accepted into officer training schools.

At the grunt level, I've also seen people both accepted and rejected given their (non) language skills.

It certainly isn't in the rules however that language is a requirement, which I've read top to bottom.

Some have argued here on TV that a civil servant must have a certain level Thai educational attainment, pointing to the fact that a military member is also a civil servant. Which would have ruled me out on a strict black and white reading of the rules....but again, I haven't seen that written in the consciption rules, and I know Thai's who work for the civil service who have primarily been educated overseas. Indeed, some sections of the civil service give more flexible access to the civil service if you have got a masters from overseas.

If it the educational rules are written in somewhere, I haven't seen them and they certainly don't apply to me (fully educated OS). When I got my waiver at 30, all it was was a waiver from active service. I'm offically, like most Thai's, a member of the reserves (class 2, division, 2; rightdown the bottom!!). I wouldn't even be there were there a educational requirement!

They used to have rules to keep the Chinese out of the officer corps. I think they were required to have 4 non Chinese grandparents at one point but they got around it anyway in various ways, including getting themselves adopted. The rules are probably a hang over from that. I knew a look Krung who was a Thai army officer. I had assumed his mother was Thai but it could have been the father. If that rule still exists today to prohibit those with foreign fathers but allow look krung with foreign mothers, it would be unconstitutional if there was a proper constitution in force.

[PaulTarpey]

It's good news day. Have a safe journey.

Thanks ! Safely back now and the boy is in school

[wedders]

Does your child have a Thai ID card?

Apologies if this has already been dealt with, but 7 years old is the minimum age for a Thai ID card and the OP mentioned a 5 year old.

[Maestro]

I thought at 7 years a child must have an ID card, not that 7 years is the earliest when a child can get it.

[Canada]

I thought at 7 years a child must have an ID card, not that 7 years is the earliest when a child can get it.

"Must" is correct.

[ubonjoe]

I think it is still must have at 15 or pay a fine if it is not applied for within 2 weeks of the 15th birthday.

The rule was just made that a 7 year old can get one.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Paul

Well, finally! But actually not all that long.

First post here on TV was on 31 August, and you got back to the UK yesterday, 9 Sept (?).

Longish thread, tho, 198 postings, including some wandering, but interesting. Some lessons learned here for everyone.

Mac

[evadgib]

As for contacting the British Embassy, don't bother as they are a waste of time, honestly it's like flogging a dead horse..

I'm not British, but this is consistent with other reports I've read and heard in Thailand.

It's 'Bloke in a pub' nonsence. Embassies have very little clout when dual nationals enter a country on that countries passport; a fact that is spelled out for any that care to look.