How Will Immigration View Intention To Overstay?

[Andyfarquar]

My wife & stepdaughter's Filipino Passports were submitted with an application for UK settlement visas on August 14th. We have 60 day, double entry tourist visas, the first segment of which which will expire on September 27th or need to be extended by Friday September 26th.

When I take my family to (Chiang Mai) Immigration on Sept 26th to extend my own stay for 30 days and then explain that my wife & stepdaughter's passports have not yet been returned so they are forced to overstay, what is the likely reaction of the Immigration officers?

Common sense and logic says that they will check to see that we are telling the truth, make us fill out some forms and maybe issue a fine but having spent most of the last 22 years in Asia, I've read some of the problems reported by Brits with the delayed passport problems and I'm aware that common sense and logic are not often used here. I'm also aware of the 500 Baht per day fines for overstay but this is not a regular overstay situation so I doubt they will enforce it in this case. We cannot leave the country without the passports so I think and hope they will just check our credentials and tell us with a stern face that we must report to Immigration as soon as the passports arrive. What do you guys think?

[onthedarkside]

I would think you have a much bigger problem as your wife and daughter have no documentation. Here in Thailand (and most other countries) a foreigner must have an original passport to present Immigration on demand at any time. At the least you will have to pay an overstay fine, at worst they might be detained. I would wait until their passports are returned before you talk to Immgration about their situation. But do get your own extension on time.

[mesquite]

I would get down to Immigration and discuss the situation before the 26th. I've been at Immigration when a foreigner had a complicated overstay situation where the date had passed, and all I heard the Imm officer say was, "You should have come here earlier." Hopefully you have receipts from the UK Embassy for the passports in their possession and I would bring those receipts.

Or go down to one of the visa services, receipts in hand, and explain the situation to them and see what they can do, for a price of course.

[trainman34014]

Get your own extension sorted and wait until the other documents arrive before going in and explaining their overstay. Chances are if you have all the doc's they will just have to pay a fine but if they turn up with no documents anything nasty could happen.

Remember where you are; common sense and/or logic is hard to come by on Planet Thailand especially when you are dealing with people wearing uniforms who think they are Gods gift to humanity.

[Saan]

Get your own extension sorted and wait until the other documents arrive before going in and explaining their overstay. Chances are if you have all the doc's they will just have to pay a fine but if they turn up with no documents anything nasty could happen.

Remember where you are; common sense and/or logic is hard to come by on Planet Thailand especially when you are dealing with people wearing uniforms who think they are Gods gift to humanity.

I have never experienced anything except courtesy and helpfulness at Chiang Immigration. Considering their work load and some of the fools they have to deal with they are amazing.

[Andyfarquar]

Thanks for the input guys. It seems there are two camps.... One side says wait until after the passports arrive to avoid any unnecessary unpleasantness, which I totally understand - The other side says be honourable and go down to Immigration ahead of time to explain, giving Immigration time to check our story before we go overdue on the visas' renewal date. I will admit, I lean more towards trying to do the honourable thing but my gut tells me there will be no thanks for it and whatever happens, it will be a mess. Perhaps I should try to find out who is the chief and write to him well in advance to apologise for our 'oversight' and ask his advice?

[NancyL]

I doubt they're going to respond to anything in writing, especially in English.

How long will they be on overstay? Do they plan to return to Thailand?

If it's just a few days, and they don't plan to return to Thailand, they could pay the fine at the airport on their way out.

Don't expect them to waive the fine.

If they want to return to Thailand, then I'd agree with the camp that's saying to go talk with Immigration BEFORE they go on overstay. But, it's going to be difficult because they don't have passports and foreigners aren't suppose to be here without passports. Do you have copies of their passports you can take with you? Including copies of their visas and current entry stamps?

Edited September 3, 2014 by NancyL

[stuurman]

What kind of embassy needs 6 (!) weeks to stamp a visa in passport?

[Andyfarquar]

I doubt they're going to respond to anything in writing, especially in English.

How long will they be on overstay? Do they plan to return to Thailand?

If it's just a few days, and they don't plan to return to Thailand, they could pay the fine at the airport on their way out.

Don't expect them to waive the fine.

If they want to return to Thailand, then I'd agree with the camp that's saying to go talk with Immigration BEFORE they go on overstay. But, it's going to be difficult because they don't have passports and foreigners aren't suppose to be here without passports. Do you have copies of their passports you can take with you? Including copies of their visas and current entry stamps?

What kind of embassy needs 6 (!) weeks to stamp a visa in passport?

Thanks NancyL, it's likely to be only a few days, possibly a couple of weeks. We have copies of the passports but not the stamp pages. I'm really not concerned about the fine as it'll be cheaper than us flying as a family out & back in again anyway for the period we're talking about. We all do plan to return to Thailand but a ban is not in the cards as the overstay is no way going to reach 90 days. I take your point about them not answering to a letter in English, but I could easily translate the letter before sending it.

stuurman - The British Embassy(!) But it's not only a case of stamping a visa in a passport. The British Embassy don't process visa applications and the agency who have the contract for that are overrun with applications. On August 13th & 14th when we were in their office, they had 23 stations fully manned, processing UK and Australian visa applications, 17 for UK and 6 for Aus. This was non stop from 8.30am until 4pm. The system was very efficient but it all breaks down when there's an anomaly.... Your wife is not Thai? Oh, what kind of visa do you have to stay in Thailand but I've said that simply in perfect English.... It took them 20 minutes to ask us because they had to use English words not in their regimented system. Then they had to explain that because our daughter is over 5 years old she needs a separate application, then there's the form we need to fill out that's not mentioned in their online system.... Then their online system broke and remained offline for a whole day but they only process applications made online and then printed out because of the barcode system... and on and on and on... Glad you asked?

Despite my concern that we don't offend the Thai Immigration Authorities, I'm starting to lean towards letting sleeping dogs lay & paying the fine on the way out at the airport....

Edited September 3, 2014 by Andyfarquar

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Hell yes to that. Indeed I would also not go to immigration once passports are returned. Just leave Thailand at the earliest opportunity and pay the fines. Nothing can be gained by going to the immigration office. They won't wave the fine and at worst they get detained until a ticket out of Thailand is produced.

Consider the immigration police perspective: You (they) created the situation by starting a UK visa process that resulted in foreign nationals overstaying and without a passport. You can expect zero leniency. Possibly they could have obtained a Thai visa with a sufficiently lengthy stay duration though that doesn't matter at this point. They'll be illegal undocumented aliens and they might view it every bit as harsh as that sounds.

Oh yes: "honourable". Honourable is not exposing your family to a potential law enforcement struggle. So don't take them anywhere near immigration unless it's at an airport with a boarding pass in hand.

Edited September 3, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[eyecatcher]

If you submitted your UK visa application on Aug 14 they will have them processed within 21 days.

So should not need to worry as you will get them back over the weekend.

[Andyfarquar]

Winnie, thanks for the confirmation. We are already wary of 'The Establishment' because of expensive previous experience in Philippines. As you kindly point out, my family's safety is my priority and following the comments here, we've already decided to let it run its' course until we leave. Whatever happens, I pwomise not to khwai.

eyecatcher...... Not sure if you're guessing, didn't read my post properly or if you have information I'm not privy to. Perhaps you could expand on the 21 days you're referring to? August 14 was 27 days ago so that is clearly not right and if the passports arrive over the weekend, it will be over 30 days. As I mentioned in the opening post, visa agency officers informed us that while we would hope it's faster, it could take 8 - 12 weeks.

Thanks for all the insights people, I do appreciate it....

[realenglish1]

My suggestion is simple. Do not tell immigration about it Let them overstay as it seems this will be a very short while and if under 90 days you will NOT be bared from coming back to Thailand pay the overstay.

This is the simplest and not messy way of handling it

[eyecatcher]

Ah sorry i failed to read "settlement visa"

a standard tourist visa will take 21 days, so i appreciate a long term/settlement visa will take longer.

and august 14 to now is still only 20 days.

[Andyfarquar]

Ah sorry i failed to read "settlement visa"

a standard tourist visa will take 21 days, so i appreciate a long term/settlement visa will take longer.

and august 14 to now is still only 20 days.

Yes of course you are right, 20 days it is. Well, we will wait and see if the visas arrive before the renewal date. As has been mentioned, any overstay will be minimal.

[phil2407]

I am in the same situation - I went to Laos yesterday to get new non b as I have been offered a job and have also renewed my passport as only 4 months left on my old one but new passport not arrived yet - Laos turned me away even though have proof that passport is in renewal stage and contacted Laos embassy before travelling and they said shouldn't be a problem but border guard just kept saying back to Bangkok and I had to get my exit from Thailand cancelled and looks like paying 500 bht a day until my new passport arrives - I will see if immigration here can suggest anything

[soalbundy]

What kind of embassy needs 6 (!) weeks to stamp a visa in passport?

the Great British embassy of course......don't you just love them !!!!!

[TerryLH]

"August 14 was 27 days ago..."

You used too many toes when you counted. Or possibly you have a broken calendar.

Even counting the 14th as day 1, it's not 27 for a few more days.

[stuurman]

What kind of embassy needs 6 (!) weeks to stamp a visa in passport?

the Great British embassy of course......don't you just love them !!!!!

No wonder the Scots want out.

[John1thru10]

Get your own extension sorted and wait until the other documents arrive before going in and explaining their overstay. Chances are if you have all the doc's they will just have to pay a fine but if they turn up with no documents anything nasty could happen.

Remember where you are; common sense and/or logic is hard to come by on Planet Thailand especially when you are dealing with people wearing uniforms who think they are Gods gift to humanity.

I have never experienced anything except courtesy and helpfulness at Chiang Immigration. Considering their work load and some of the fools they have to deal with they are amazing.

I think you are both correct, I have to say.

On one hand, many officials in Thailand are extremely nice people, and are not there to be cruel. On the other hand, overstay fees are rarely if ever waved away - count on having to pay that, whatever the excuse. AND - I totally agree that you should NOT go to any official without the right documents, IN HAND, because this could be enormous trouble! Enormous. While most officials are very decent people, it is like rolling dice in that event. You don't want to roll dice that way.

[iainiain101]

I was under the impression that an application for a UK settlement visa had to be made from your home country, or possibly your country of residence. As your family are here on tourist visas, are you sure the application for UK settlement visas will be approved?

This thread may be better in the visas section?

[Briandajew]

What kind of embassy needs 6 (!) weeks to stamp a visa in passport?

Indeed! But luckily you seem not to have had to deal with the UK visa or passport rules, they are a disgrace!

I am a UK Citizen, my (still valid for 1 more year) passport is almost full and need it for travel for work in China. The process to get a new passport means I now have to apply to some agency (not the embassy - who appear to do absolute bugger all) in Bangkok, there is a waiting list for an interview of about 4 weeks - if you do not show for the appointment you cannot re apply for another appointment for 8 weeks.

You have to travel in person with your passport etc. to the agency and submit the application - at which point they will cancel and return to you your still valid passport (Now you cannot travel)

They then submit your application to the passport office in the UK and expect an 8 week turnaround!!!!

You then get an e mail telling you to travel back to the agency to collect the passport - I live in Chiang Mai.

These people seem to have forgot that they are Civil SERVANTS, not little petty dictators.

Come the revolution these would be some of the first b@st@rds put against the wall!

[Andyfarquar]

I was under the impression that an application for a UK settlement visa had to be made from your home country, or possibly your country of residence. As your family are here on tourist visas, are you sure the application for UK settlement visas will be approved?

This thread may be better in the visas section?

We checked and there is no such rule, although myths abound. The visa agency were very thorough and they will not allow an application to be made if there are any problems with it. Also the online system allows for this contingency so I have no doubt the visa applications will be processed. The only niggling doubt we had going in was that we heard the visas could be forwarded to the home country for issuance. The staff at the visa agency said no that's not going to happen then took a fee from us to return the passports with visas in to our address in Chiang Mai.

[Andyfarquar]

What kind of embassy needs 6 (!) weeks to stamp a visa in passport?

the Great British embassy of course......don't you just love them !!!!!

No wonder the Scots want out.

Judging by the way the 'NO' camp (Better Together) have handled the campaign, using Alistair Darling (a Scot who's way too English for most Scots), a cynic might think that the British also want the Scots out.... I'm as English as it gets but Alex Salmond is way more convincing for me. I'd say let them go if that's what they want. I don't actually agree with nationalism at all but people have to choose their own path. Personally I keep my British Passport because I paid in all my life and will not relinquish my pension or my National Health benefits but I'm more in favour of being a 'World Citizen'.

[stuurman]

What kind of embassy needs 6 (!) weeks to stamp a visa in passport?

the Great British embassy of course......don't you just love them !!!!!

No wonder the Scots want out.

Judging by the way the 'NO' camp (Better Together) have handled the campaign, using Alistair Darling (a Scot who's way too English for most Scots), a cynic might think that the British also want the Scots out.... I'm as English as it gets but Alex Salmond is way more convincing for me. I'd say let them go if that's what they want. I don't actually agree with nationalism at all but people have to choose their own path. Personally I keep my British Passport because I paid in all my life and will not relinquish my pension or my National Health benefits but I'm more in favour of being a 'World Citizen'.

Looks it's going to be a close call but the subject is maybe worth a whole new topic. I hope you will get your paperwork done in time.

I'm not a nationalist either but still very happy with my Dutch passport.

Edited September 3, 2014 by stuurman

[mesquite]

I would like to point out that the requirement for a foreigner to always have their passport is open to interpretation.

Those who say you must have it in your possession at all times apparently don't travel out of Thailand often.

To get a visa to travel to other countries, the passport is quite often left at the embassies of those countries while the visa is processed. My passport was at the Chinese consulate for several days while they processed the visa, and they gave me a receipt for my passport. This is quite common and there is nothing wrong with it. How else can you get the visa?

In this case the OP's children's passports are in the custody of the UK agency awaiting the visas. Assuming he has receipts for those passports, all his documentation is "in order" and there is no problem going anywhere in CM, including Immigration.

Edited September 3, 2014 by mesquite

[Andyfarquar]

I would like to point out that the requirement for a foreigner to always have their passport is open to interpretation.

Those who say you must have it in your possession at all times apparently don't travel out of Thailand often.

To get a visa to travel to other countries, the passport is quite often left at the embassies of those countries while the visa is processed. My passport was at the Chinese consulate for several days while they processed the visa, and they gave me a receipt for my passport. This is quite common and there is nothing wrong with it. How else can you get the visa?

In this case the OP's children's passports are in the custody of the UK agency awaiting the visas. Assuming he has receipts for those passports, there is no problem going anywhere in CM, including Immigration.

Thank you for that very common sense answer. I feel the same but having been extorted by Immigration officers in Philippines recently, I am not 100% confident here. There are a number of similarities between the countries and in spite of the junta running things there's one rule which seems to be universal.... Immigration officers have wide discretion to deal with you how they decide is appropriate for them...... With so many unknowns, I'm not taking my family to Immigration with the risk that they could be detained. I'd rather pay the fine with a smile at the airport.

[nealthewheel]

I am in the same situation - I went to Laos yesterday to get new non b as I have been offered a job and have also renewed my passport as only 4 months left on my old one but new passport not arrived yet - Laos turned me away even though have proof that passport is in renewal stage and contacted Laos embassy before travelling and they said shouldn't be a problem but border guard just kept saying back to Bangkok and I had to get my exit from Thailand cancelled and looks like paying 500 bht a day until my new passport arrives - I will see if immigration here can suggest anything

I was in a similar situation and waiting for a new passport. It arrived 5 days before my final date in Thailand and here I am in Vientiane waiting for my TV. But I was told by the Consulate in Chiang Mai if I didn't get my new passport -get a Temporary Travel Document and don't overstay if possible. When I picked up my passport from Trendy House I met a guy who had a TTD as his passport was late in arriving - he even had a Thai Tourist Visa stamped in the page from Cambodia. My passport took just over 8 weeks to come back.

[mikecat]

I would imagine you have some receipt or document that validates your story. I normally have copies of my passport, work permit and visas and 90 day report receipts. If you have anything like this I would go now and explain the situation and ask for advice other than that received from TV. Pretty sure they wont lock you up ha ha. My immigration office has always been helpful to me and given the correct and at times invaluable advice.

If you decide not to, remember if they are pulled up by the police/army for some obscure reason they will be in deep s t with no passport.

[Strangebrew]

Ok if I got this correctly your doing extension for UK? But you in thailand with wife and stepdaughter who have Philippine passports. getting Visa for UK? I would go to UK embassy have them contact Thailands immigration and sort it out for you. But I would contact Immigration before hand eitherway Cause if caught they will face deportation and fine possible jail time no to mention being blacklisted.