Dual-pricing is scaring tourists away: Thai editorial

[wilcopops]

Go to Uk/London and everyone can go to museums free, masses of foreign tourists, and of course churches and cathedrals are free to go inside.

Compare the taxes people pay in each country and you see why its free, the money to upkeep attractions has to come from somewhere

.... and the nice UK (in this case) taxpayers then allow non-contributors free access so they can be educated, can enjoy themselves, learn something about the history & culture (including something about non-discrimination) and can perhaps reflect on this generosity when they next see discriminatory prices in Thailand.

Incidentally, I've found that London cathedral & abbeys (Westminster comes to mind) ask for a "donation" but Norwich, York, Bath & Beverley are certainly free & pretty interesting too.

My wife absolutely loves the free attractions when we visit UK. She even says that, while expensive, the paid attractions are far better than she's seen in Thailand. Mind you, I was paying ....

Many State-run Galleries and Museums in UK are free (donations welcomed) the reason is they are a MASSIVE tourist attraction and the country in general benefits.......... do you want to see a Manet.van Gogh/da Vinci /Rothco for FREE? science museum etc.? you ca in UK. (you might want to watch out for the CofE though)

Edited September 4, 2014 by wilcopops

[fisherd3]

If the Thai government charge alien tourists double the entry fee to its parks and other tourist attractions, why should not the Thai people charge double for whatever they provide?

I see no reason.

Edited September 4, 2014 by fisherd3

[wilcopops]

Why is it that racists are always the first to cry "racism"?

[NativeSon360]

Welcome to the Theravada notion of Buddhism

Update to previous - "After 2,558 years of cultural-development, welcome to the finely-tuned, Therava-dictated notion of Buddhism, The Japanese have much to learn

[Faiza Hussain]

Pomchop, where in the USA are you talking about? I am extremely well travelled and have never had any issues, and neither have I had people judge me on the color of my skin or race. Every civilized country has the prices/charges clearly marked, including the USA, and not made up because the customer is a tourist. In fact in some places, large tourist groups can actually avail mega discounts. So I seriously doubt if you have ever visited the USA.

[Mooner]

Thais are poor. Falang rich. When Thais go to Falangland, Thais always get charge expensive Falang price. So when Falang in Thailand, they should also pay expensive Falang price. This is the universal law of same same no change. If falang want to pay thai price in thailand, falang should also charge cheaper thai price to thai people while in falangland.

Hope this a troll post, Farangs pay the same as Thais in Farangland!

[Keesters]

There's only one explanation for double-pricing ... GREED.

They try to hide it (because deep down they know it is bad) by using characters and numerals that the majority of farang can't understand. They get caught out of course when they come up against a farang or his/her family that can understand. It is not so much the double-price that is wrong it is the deceit in not being honest about it. I vote for entrance fee notices all over farangland to state "Thai nationals must pay 100% more than anybody else."

[citizen33]

They only want to do something because although they are lying about tourist coming back they are not! This is a government and people who believe lying a little is o.k. just like excepting corruption.

As noted it is a mindset, even in the police station and hospital that charges you more is o.k., as recently as last month Bangkok/Hospital gave me a quote in writing for 15,000 for a procedure when i came back a week later to confirm the procedure the original doctor had overbook his day so I was told another doctor could do the procedure. After doing some paperwork I was told the charge will be 25,000, I pull out and gave her the slip of earlier quote and she/he came right out and say that is " Thai price " " you Falang " was was stunned knew and heard about it before never could confirm.

Here what is new... all smoke and mirror!

In Australia, it would cost me (as an Aus citizen) less for hospital visits than it would for foreigners.

I presume this is due to the medical care of Australian Citizens/ Residents visits being subsidized by government healthcare program, correct?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Australia

Not a case that the cost of the procedure is quoted by the hospital as costing differently to different nationalities

In the posters case, not talking about any government. Subsidies or health care program... In both cases, paying 100% of actual costs... In cash

How do you know that government subsidies weren't involved? That info certainly isn't in the post.

The Bangkok Hospital Group is a private enterprise, and indeed is the largest private hospital group in Thailand: There is no public subsidy involved in this case, unlike in the Australian public healthcare system. Some major international hospitals in Thailand do have just a single price, but many do not. Their excuse for dual pricing is that they have to offer extra translation and support services for non-Thais. Probably if this information were more widely known, the marketing impact would much outweigh any extra costs.

[Faiza Hussain]

My apologies, if I have offended some people. I was merely replying to an earlier post which mentioned racism and the difference in how careful people need to be while speaking to others. Unfortunately, I was under the impression that this was a free forum, where we are allowed to vent without fear of censure, so many apologies, once again!

[Quack]

The fact they always write the Thai price in THAI characters suggests to me that Thai people do in fact know dual pricing is wrong and unfair

[Thailand]

The lack of tourists is absolutely nothing to do with dual pricing.

[Ayutthaya69]

ridiculous only in Thailand you have price for Thai Peoples and price for Farang if you go some restaurant you Have Thai menu and English Menu if you look on Thai menu its not the same Price same on Thai Website for booking room same more expensive English Website so i can speak Thai so when i go buy a shirt a save more money then peoples don't speak Thai

[jonclark]

I want the article rewritten as - Tourist pay regular price and Thais get a discount - and it it good for the country. In reality it is us tourist that caused the prices to go up. The prices have gone up so much just how many Thais do you see at the bar and other places. They cannot afford it any more. The country needs to find a way for a person who makes $10/day can also have some enjoyment.

The USA does the same. In Orlando you can get a hotel room for $100/night but by the time they add the 'tourist' tax - yes they have a tourist tax - it can be as much as $150 (I am high with this number but the tax is huge - like 35% then the regular sales tax, etc). Heck, it might be more than $150 by now.

Why? Americans think $100 is enough but Europeans think the price is very low. They joke at how low it is. So - Orland for many years have this tax.

The whole world does it to balance things out but they know how to hide it. Go to an historial site in Virginia and show your Virginia driver's license. ooops, big discount. Go to the national parks in USA and show your USA driver's liense and buy a life time pass for $10. I believe in some leveling.

Or just make the entrance fees to all museums etc free (such as in the UK). You can't get more level than that. And remember Thailand makes a serious chunk of GDP from the tourist dollar. Making it all free would encourage more people to come into the country, give Thailand a better international public image and raise GDP.

The problem is that this dual pricing system is perceived by most Thai people to be fair. The problem is their customers see it as unfair. Rule 101 of business is that the customer is always right (if you want their business again at least)

If you got crappy service or food from a restaurant and that service / food isn't rectified, would you go back and spend more money their or would you go to another restaurant? Same principle

So level it by making it free for all. The money tourists spend in Thailand is a mere tiny fraction of what it takes to maintain these sites.

[atsiii]

Duh...

[sydneyboy]

Thais are poor. Falang rich.When Thais go to Falangland, Thais always get charge expensive Falang price.So when Falang in Thailand, they should also pay expensive Falang price.This is the universal law of same same no change.If falang want to pay thai price in thailand, falang should also charge cheaper thai price to thai people while in falangland.

That's why Thai people can afford to drive around in BMW'S, Merc's and brand new top of the range Toyota and Isuzu's.

Get out into the real world of Thailand and open your eyes.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

ridiculous only in Thailand you have price for Thai Peoples and price for Farang if you go some restaurant you Have Thai menu and English Menu if you look on Thai menu its not the same Price same on Thai Website for booking room same more expensive English Website so i can speak Thai so when i go buy a shirt a save more money then peoples don't speak Thai

A couple of times I have asked in restaurants why the prices are different in English Menu compared to the Thai Menu, their facial expression when they understand that the Farang customer can read Thai is priceless.

[Runamile]

As a famous supermarket says: "Every little helps".

However, I hardly think that dual entry pricing is a major issue in tourist minds - and if it is, it's likely to be seen as significant of attitude, rather than of monetary concern.

As to overcharge scams, I doubt whether tourists are, generally, aware of what goes on - they don't have the comparative. Equally, I think that when they do become aware, often they don't care much, often seeing themselves as fair game, feeling they can easily afford the extra few baht. Also, they're on holiday, why cause a fuss?

But, yes, all of this is significant of the Land of Smiles, either smiling less these days or being a Land of Two-Faced Smiles. Worse, though is that knowledge of Thailand's lawlessness and corruption and plain anti-social behaviour is beginning to seep beyond Thailand. I am thinking of Thailand's problems with alcohol, drugs, knives, gangs, etc.

I would say that, for instance, the recent case of the abduction of two children by their Thai mother, splashed all over the Daily Mail in UK, will have a greater impact on views of Thailand, and willingness to travel to Thailand, than dual pricing.

[rametindallas]

At popular Bangkok sites like Wat Phra Kaew (the Temple of the Emerald Buddha) and Wat Pho (Temple of the Reclining Buddha) locals are let in free while foreigners pay to enter.

This is not about 'foreigners' but anyone that looks non-Thai. My friend from Taiwan visited me in Bangkok and I took her to Wat Po. I had to pay but, because she was Chinese, they never gave her a second look. If they made Thai people show their national ID, I might believe it is not racist. I had to pay every day even when I went to the massage school at Wat Po. The crocodile farm next to the Rose Garden charges non-Thai looking people more that five times the rate for Thai-looking people. No ID needed to decide what to charge you. If you look Asian, keep your mouth shut and pay the Thai rate. No questions asked. Racism; pure and simple.

[Tomtomtom69]

"Overcharging and double-pricing are also a problem for foreign tourists in some other countries."

Is it?

On the same scale as it is in Thailand?

Legally?

I wouldn't be surprised to be honest, just never seem it or noticed I guess.

I regularly travel to neighboring countries and have been to all of Thailand's direct neighbors and other nearby countries 20+ times each. My observations are that dual pricing, especially the government sanctioned kind (applied in Thailand to certain temples, museums and national parks, as well as some private establishments such as entrance fees to zoos and other attractions) is far more widespread in Thailand than in all nearby countries, with the possible exception of Myanmar. So I agree with you that it's not on the same scale as in Thailand.

Here are some examples and how they compare with Thailand:

Myanmar - foreigners pay 8000 Kyat for entry to the famed Shwedagon temple in Yangon, up from 5000 Kyat or US$5 earlier. Locals get in for free. Just like in Thailand it seems that racial profiling at the door is used to assess who is a local and who isn't - locals are NOT asked for ID cards to prove they are local and foreigners' physical appearance alone seems to be the defining factor. Such practices would be considered outrageous and highly controversial in the USA for example. Many other temples and attractions charge similar fees, for example in Mandalay and Bagan amongst others. Like in Thailand, most smaller temples are free to enter but they aren't considered major tourist attractions, though in many ways they may be even more interesting than the most well-known attractions.

Another difference is that domestic airlines charge foreigners more than locals. On a typical Mandalay-Yangon flight, one airline charges foreigners US$100 and for locals the equivalent of US$79 in Burmese Kyat. The gap has narrowed from a few years ago when the same flight cost foreigners US$79 and locals paid a measly US$15 in Kyat. Perhaps in a couple of years, dual pricing for domestic airline tickets will be gone. I have never caught an internal flight in Myanmar due to safety reasons, but I remember seeing these prices printed in advertising. Also, some train and boat tickets cost more for foreigners and the most ridiculous thing a few years ago was a ferry near Pathein in western Myanmar, which although the bus gets on it foreigners were asked to pay a separate US$5 while locals were probably only paying a pittance. Many hotels also charge foreigners more than locals but the gap is less than it used to be.

Laos - a few national parks and temples may charge foreigners more than locals, but only a few (examples include Wat Phra Kaew and Wat Phra That Luang in Vientiane, and one waterfall in Vang Vieng). Then the difference is only tiny - 2000 Kip for locals, 5000 Kip for foreigners or in some cases, 8000 Kip for locals, 20000 for foreigners. Unlike in Thailand and Myanmar, I have observed Laotians state that they are Lao in order to try to bargain their entrance fees from 5000 down to 2000 so it seems that 5000 is the default amount they will try to charge until or unless you can show eligibility as a local. Thais always get hit for 5000 unlike in Thailand where in some places other Asians might occasionally be mistaken for Thais and given a reduced fee. I have travelled extensively throughout Laos and even in many touristy places, entrance fees are the same for both locals and foreigners and they are quite cheap to boot (for example, Pak Ou caves). Not only that, but attempted rip-offs and overcharging by local vendors is much less common than in Thailand. In that sense, travelling in Laos is much more pleasant than in Thailand.

Vietnam - has a bit of a reputation among locals and some foreigners as a place where the locals will try to rip you off, but the fact is they are just very skilled business people and there is no official dual pricing in place. You just have to bargain hard or otherwise you walk away. Even locals get ripped off and anyone driving a car (which in Vietnam is a big status symbol) is likely to be subject to being overcharged, whereas in Thailand the distinguishing factors seem to be purely based on the person, i.e. local language knowledge and/or physical appearance. I have never heard of drivers of cars being charged more at markets than motorcyclists in Thailand, but that's what happens in Vietnam. Hotels, train tickets and domestic airline tickets no longer charge differently for locals compared to foreigners, but up until 2002 they did. The vast majority of the museums, national parks and other attractions in Vietnam don't charge foreigners more than locals and are decidedly cheap to visit, for example the HCMC reunification palace and war museums cost just 15000 Dong each to enter (that's less than US$0.75 or 23 Baht!) Only one place charges foreigners more than locals that I have visited (for some reason): The Palace in Hue. 35000 Dong for locals, 55000 Dong for foreigners.

China - national parks, tourist attractions etc. no longer charge foreigners more than locals. Apparently before 1996 many types of businesses (particularly hotels, trains, domestic airline tickets and even tourist attractions) charged foreigners more under a dual system, but not anymore. Although many tourist attractions can be quite expensive compared to SE Asia (for example 100 Yuan or 500 Baht entrance fees), students, the elderly etc. are all eligible for discounts and that includes non-resident foreigners who happen to be in those categories and able to show appropriate ID. In Thailand, they really don't respect elderly foreigners, but in China they do - which is why everyone is treated equally with regards to senior's discounts. In my opinion most of the tourist attractions in China are much more worth seeing than anything in Thailand and so whether they cost 50 Yuan, 100, 150 etc. they'll probably be so big and interesting that you're going to get your money's worth. Even the small botanical garden in Kunming (entrance fee: 5 Yuan for adults), which is actually very cheap, is well worth it with the gardens much more well kept than anything in Thailand (although Doi Tung, which luckily doesn't charge foreigners extra is a very nice place too).

Singapore - for some reason the Gardens by the Bay give Singaporean citizens and permanent residents an 8 SGD discount upon presentation of their ID cards. Otherwise every other place charges the same entrance fees for both locals and visitors.

Cambodia - quite a few temples charge foreigners more than locals, such as the Grand Palace in Phnom Penh (US$6.25 for foreigners, only 1 or 2? bucks for locals). Tuol Sleng genocide museum - US$2 up until recently and now US$3 I think - apparently foreign scholars, students etc. will be exempted from this fee though. Sounds like locals get in for free too. And then the mother of them all - Angkor Wat. Different pricing structure depending on the number of days your pass is valid for. I have no idea what locals pay there, but can't imagine them being charged US$20 for one day or US$40 for 3 days as visitors are. But of course if anyone knows please let us know.

India - quite a few botanical parks, museums, etc. charge foreigners more than locals, but locals usually get charged a pittance (like say 2 or 10 Rupees) while foreigners get charged say 50 or 100. The differences in percentage terms are huge, but 100 Rupees is still only US$2.

So I think it's valid to say that Thailand stands out as being one of the worst offenders when it comes to dual pricing in the region. I can confidently state that Myanmar is probably the worst offender, but Thailand comes out as a close second.

[Tomtomtom69]

ridiculous only in Thailand you have price for Thai Peoples and price for Farang if you go some restaurant you Have Thai menu and English Menu if you look on Thai menu its not the same Price same on Thai Website for booking room same more expensive English Website so i can speak Thai so when i go buy a shirt a save more money then peoples don't speak Thai

A couple of times I have asked in restaurants why the prices are different in English Menu compared to the Thai Menu, their facial expression when they understand that the Farang customer can read Thai is priceless.

I have heard of this practice, but can you name some restaurants, or if they don't have a name, at least some locations where this practice occurs?

Because I have never been to a restaurant where there are two different menus with two sets of prices in Thailand, to the best of my knowledge. The vast majority of restaurants in Thailand with English menus have menus which are bilingual (English-Thai or sometimes even English-Thai-Japanese or English-Thai-Chinese etc.) on the same menu. Rarely is one offered a separate English only menu (except at places like Sizzler although being an international corporation there is no dual pricing there of course!)

BTW I am also fluent in Thai. My feeling is the only restaurants which may do this are hole-in-the-wall places in such touristy locations near Wat Pho, Wat Phra Kaew etc. but it's not like I would ever eat there. Personally, except when I eat at home I almost only eat at chain restaurants these days, nothing to do with worries about dual pricing but I don't like the taste or quality of food at such hole in the wall places and I'm worried about getting sick. Chain restaurants like Fuji, Sizzler, Ichiban Ramen etc. are predictable in terms of quality, price and taste. The only exceptions would be say famous independent seafood restaurants (which are usually quite pricey) and independent western restaurants, which again don't have such concerns either.

[cooked]

Come on guys, other countries go in for dual pricing. Living in Switzerland, I could use public transport for half price, visit museums cheaply, because it wasn't worthwhile for two week tourists. I'm sure other countries have this kind of set up also.

[Tomtomtom69]

At popular Bangkok sites like Wat Phra Kaew (the Temple of the Emerald Buddha) and Wat Pho (Temple of the Reclining Buddha) locals are let in free while foreigners pay to enter.

This is not about 'foreigners' but anyone that looks non-Thai. My friend from Taiwan visited me in Bangkok and I took her to Wat Po. I had to pay but, because she was Chinese, they never gave her a second look. If they made Thai people show their national ID, I might believe it is not racist. I had to pay every day even when I went to the massage school at Wat Po. The crocodile farm next to the Rose Garden charges non-Thai looking people more that five times the rate for Thai-looking people. No ID needed to decide what to charge you. If you look Asian, keep your mouth shut and pay the Thai rate. No questions asked. Racism; pure and simple.

Yes, this is exactly a big part of the problem. While I still think it's racist in either case, it is clearly far more racist to base decisions on how much to charge based on someone's physical appearance. I've always wondered why Thais have ID cards when no one asks them to show them at these sites?

I also wonder how many Chinese/Vietnamese/Japanese get in for free at these sites? I mean, do the Thais think that only westerners and the occasional black person visits Thailand, when in fact 60% of visitors are actually Asian?

[tigermoth]

Instead of charging farangs 100 baht and Thais zip why not charge 10 baht to all. I'm sure it would be more profitable for the venue and Thais can afford it.

[razer]

Thais are poor. Falang rich.When Thais go to Falangland, Thais always get charge expensive Falang price.So when Falang in Thailand, they should also pay expensive Falang price.This is the universal law of same same no change.If falang want to pay thai price in thailand, falang should also charge cheaper thai price to thai people while in falangland.

typical attitude of the thai scammers,but so wrong. Go to Uk/London and everyone can go to museums free, masses of foreign tourists, and of course churches and cathedrals are free to go inside.

I have no idea what a Falang is.

Ever ask yourself why Thais are so poor?

Same same no change is not a universal law. I can see you have not been outside of Thailand.

[Tomtomtom69]

Come on guys, other countries go in for dual pricing. Living in Switzerland, I could use public transport for half price, visit museums cheaply, because it wasn't worthwhile for two week tourists. I'm sure other countries have this kind of set up also.

That's the so-called Halbtaxabbonement. You can pay for one and it's valid for like a year at a time (it's expensive) in order to get a 50% discount on all further travel on trains, buses etc. but it's got nothing to do with dual pricing. The people who sell you those don't tell you - "oh, wait a second, you're Asian! How can you be Swiss? Now I have to charge you double!" Sorry, but that doesn't happen in Switzerland, so your point is moot. There are many ways of getting discounts in many countries around the world, but the point of this article is that racial profiling and nationality in Thailand have a lot to do with whether one ends up paying a cheaper price or not, even at your everyday tourist attractions. The set-up in other countries is more about residency (and being able to prove it) or obtaining discount vouchers than merely being discriminated against every time you go to a museum for example.

I am aware of museums in countries like the Czech Republic which used to charge foreigners more than locals (during communist times) no idea if that practice still holds true these days though. But in Switzerland, I highly doubt there was ever any dual pricing to begin with.

[richard10365]

Politics is scaring tourist away not dual pricing. Tourism numbers have been going up every year in Thailand and dual pricing has no influence on this. The only reason the numbers are down this year is because of politics.

I can just as easily claim that the 2 inch floor toilets are also causing tourist to avoid Thailand because westerners don't know how to squat over the toilet without getting their pants wet. Tourism statistics for 2014 can support this argument. In fact, why not throw in, Thai food is too spicy and tourist are going elsewhere because of it. Or maybe, toilet paper being installed backwards in hotels and guest houses across Thailand are causing tourist go go elsewhere. This year would be a great year to come up with off the wall reasons why tourist numbers are low.

However, the reality is, politics and the coup have people worried about security and this year only, they choose other destinations for their holiday. Next year, if the political situation is calmer, things will return to normal.

[GAZZPA]

Suriya4, in "civilized" countries, charges for locals and tourists are the same, expensive or cheap there is no discrimination between them. Unfortunately, much as I hate to say this but 90% if actions and comments that' I have heard here, would definitely be construed as racism, in "civilized" countries.

So USA must be very uncivilized as there are hundreds of examples of locals and tourists being charged different prices for the same products/services.

I would venture to say that there are very FEW countries that do not have some variation in prices for locals, seniors, ladies, kids, etc etc all of which could be considered to be discrimination based on one factor or another.

People always love the discounts as long as they are the one getting it...otherwise it is blatant discrimination.

There is a very big difference between "pensioner" or "kids" pricing to foreigner pricing.

Here there is a blatant dual charging policy for Thai's and non Thai's, in the US senior citizens will be cheaper but everyone else, no matter where they are from pay the same. Surely you know this? Thats what this post is all about, its real and everyone seems to know about it.

[mic59]

I pay THB160(AU$5.50) for a shave and a haircut and tip up to THB200($AU6.90). There's no way I'll object to paying more than Thais, a haircut alone in Australia will cost me $12-$20. Builds up goodwill, too. After a few visits I'm recognised as a good customer and offered free manicures, pedicures and ear cleanings. The whole thing leads to a much better atmosphere in what is, after all, a pretty mundane but necessary part of the day.

[Tomtomtom69]

Instead of charging farangs 100 baht and Thais zip why not charge 10 baht to all. I'm sure it would be more profitable for the venue and Thais can afford it.

That's true, at many tourist attractions there are very few foreigners to begin with, so there's really not much they can gain from charging a handful of foreigners more - it's just greed and that's it. At some tourist attractions in China for example, days may go past without a single foreign visitor (in the meantime tens of thousands of locals will have passed through) but of course since they don't charge foreigners extra that's a moot point but what I'm saying is if you had a tourist attraction in Thailand that attracts 5000 Thais a day but only 20 foreigners, with Thais being charged nothing or say 20 Baht but foreigners 200, then much more profit could be realized by charging everyone say 50 Baht. In that example revenue increases from 104,000 Baht a day to 251,000 Baht. Basically 2.5 times the previous revenue.

[bapoboy]

"Overcharging and double-pricing are also a problem for foreign tourists in some other countries."

Is it?

On the same scale as it is in Thailand?

Legally?

I wouldn't be surprised to be honest, just never seem it or noticed I guess.

have been in egypt,mexico,bulgaria,hungary,turkey and spain same shit there, overprice on foreigner.