What's our economic contribution?

[Keesters]

30 years ago I bought into a new housing community of 108 houses averaging in price ~500,000 each. While the ownership of none of these houses and land could not be in Farang name 75 of those houses were paid for IN CASH with Farang money. The developers told me that had that not been the case the development would never have gone ahead as there were insufficient Thais with the money to buy. Building took well over a year employing dozens of THAI people. All the materials (bricks, cement, wood, glass etc) used came from THAI companies. I'm sure there are many other such developments around having similar stories. Condominiums while ownership is limited to 49% Farang many Thai invest in these and rent to Farang long term. Without all those Farang would those condos ever have been built providing employment amounting to many millions of man hours of Thai labor in building as well as material supply.

Had Farang and their money never entered Thailand I believe the country would look far far different than it does today

Oh behave yourself.

What an extremely rude comment.

[Thakkar]

I don't think anyone has argued that expats make no contribution. Rather, the argument is that it isn't as HUGE as some posters on this and hundreds of other threads endlessly boast about.

More importantly, the message, often explicitly and arrogantly stated by posters, is that we are doing these poor bastards a big favor and they should be bloody grateful and worship the ground we walk on. I'd like more expats to acknowledge that "we" get at least as much, if not more, out of the arrangement as "they" do. We are buying "the Thailand service" and Thailand is providing the service. None of us is forced to live here and they aren't forced to let us live here. In a free market, this is by definition a fair exchange.

So let's stop fooling ourselves that we are somehow altruistic and a godsend, stop demanding some kind of obeisance gratefulness that isn't warranted. Let's get off that "benefactor pedestal" we've built ourselves whence we bloviate arrogantly.

T

Well on the average of salaries versus the visa requirements, an average retiree foreigner contributes as much as 4 working Thais.

So, if 750k Thais, that equates to 3mn working Thais which is about 10% of the working population .

This assumes every Farang is on approximate minimum qualification for a retirement visa. Let's for an experiment have all long stayers try to live on minimum wage for 3months and see what happens .

I think certain resorts would have a fit, but on a nationwide basis, it should be very noticeable.

Oh, no! Math! Numbers! Percentages, even! My head, it spins!

First of all, in your posts "contributing" seems to mean "we give them money"--wrong; we pay to live our lives, just as we would anywhere else. In exchange, we get goods, services, security, infrastructure, etc. I'm sure most consider it a bargain. Those who think they can get a better deal elsewhere but continue to live here under protest are idiots, because they don't have to.

Anyway, this is peripheral to my argument. My main point, once again, is that it's a fair exchange and so we shouldn't strut around like some big swinging dick, going, "woe is Thailand without me!"

A little realistic humility would be the gracious way to live here, or anywhere.

T

[Keesters]

30 years ago I bought into a new housing community of 108 houses averaging in price ~500,000 each. While the ownership of none of these houses and land could not be in Farang name 75 of those houses were paid for IN CASH with Farang money. The developers told me that had that not been the case the development would never have gone ahead as there were insufficient Thais with the money to buy. Building took well over a year employing dozens of THAI people. All the materials (bricks, cement, wood, glass etc) used came from THAI companies. I'm sure there are many other such developments around having similar stories. Condominiums while ownership is limited to 49% Farang many Thai invest in these and rent to Farang long term. Without all those Farang would those condos ever have been built providing employment amounting to many millions of man hours of Thai labor in building as well as material supply.

Had Farang and their money never entered Thailand I believe the country would look far far different than it does today

It's not that there weren't enough Thais with money to buy in; they just didn't like the houses, the area or maybe weren't keen to live next door to Westerners.

Think of how many high end condos there are in Bangkok in places like Thong Lo, Lang Suan. They're mostly occupied by renting Thais; not farang.

All the high end rental agencies will tell you straight that 80-90% of their client base is THAI.

Oh so you were sitting there next to me were you when the developer said what he did witnessed by his son who went to college with me.

[thailiketoo]

A lot of expats came here and started companies. Chinese, Korean Japanese and American. Worth billions of Baht in investment brought into Thailand. How many Thais do they employ? Hundreds of thousands. In August alone the BOI approved 40 billion baht in new projects.

http://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=statistics_foreign_direct_investment

[Crazy chef 1]

in my case: 213 600 THB income tax per year and an annual spending of about 660 000 THB(for the entire family). think it is not that bad,isn't

[NoshowJones]

30 years ago I bought into a new housing community of 108 houses averaging in price ~500,000 each. While the ownership of none of these houses and land could not be in Farang name 75 of those houses were paid for IN CASH with Farang money. The developers told me that had that not been the case the development would never have gone ahead as there were insufficient Thais with the money to buy. Building took well over a year employing dozens of THAI people. All the materials (bricks, cement, wood, glass etc) used came from THAI companies. I'm sure there are many other such developments around having similar stories. Condominiums while ownership is limited to 49% Farang many Thai invest in these and rent to Farang long term. Without all those Farang would those condos ever have been built providing employment amounting to many millions of man hours of Thai labor in building as well as material supply.

Had Farang and their money never entered Thailand I believe the country would look far far different than it does today

Oh behave yourself.

It's not that there weren't enough Thais with money to buy in; they just didn't like the houses, the area or maybe weren't keen to live next door to Westerners.

Think of how many high end condos there are in Bangkok in places like Thong Lo, Lang Suan. They're mostly occupied by renting Thais; not farang.

All the high end rental agencies will tell you straight that 80-90% of their client base is THAI.

If every western retiree living in Thailand, all suddenly up and go back to their own countries, don't tell me there would be no or little effect on Thailands economy, and I am only referring to retirees here, not the ones who are working.

A retiree isn't necessarily a pensioner. Many "retirees" work; often illegally.

If you're talking about pensioners, you're mistaken; your average pensioner isn't over here living like Sheikh Yamoney buying up houses, cars and Prada handbags for his floosie.

He's living on a budget that allows for cheap meals at a Tesco food hall and a couple of lager tops during happy hour.

That's why he came here; to live more cheaply than he might be able to back home.

No one's saying there'd be no effect on the Thai economy if all the retirees left but it wouldn't amount to much

I see your point in what you are saying, but I do believe that most retirees in Thailand, and yes, they are not all pensioners, have sold their house back in their own country, to retire to Thailand and bought a house here, and get their pensions paid into their Thai bank account, your second last sentence is spot on, but I'm not so sure about your last one.

[KhnomKhnom]

I would guesstimate that the economic offerings from expats is not nearly as much as some people imagine. Given that an expat working here is on a substantially larger wage than a local in the first place, would for me offset their contribution to the economy.

I think the main contribution from expats (in certain areas only) is the transfer of knowledge and probably more important, the transfer of process.

That said, it doesn't make the expat an essential commodity, just a convenience.

IMHO of course.....................

oops........ a small mis spelling above....... it should read...."just an inconvenience."

[Cypress Hill]

30 years ago I bought into a new housing community of 108 houses averaging in price ~500,000 each. While the ownership of none of these houses and land could not be in Farang name 75 of those houses were paid for IN CASH with Farang money. The developers told me that had that not been the case the development would never have gone ahead as there were insufficient Thais with the money to buy. Building took well over a year employing dozens of THAI people. All the materials (bricks, cement, wood, glass etc) used came from THAI companies. I'm sure there are many other such developments around having similar stories. Condominiums while ownership is limited to 49% Farang many Thai invest in these and rent to Farang long term. Without all those Farang would those condos ever have been built providing employment amounting to many millions of man hours of Thai labor in building as well as material supply.

Had Farang and their money never entered Thailand I believe the country would look far far different than it does today

It's not that there weren't enough Thais with money to buy in; they just didn't like the houses, the area or maybe weren't keen to live next door to Westerners.

Think of how many high end condos there are in Bangkok in places like Thong Lo, Lang Suan. They're mostly occupied by renting Thais; not farang.

All the high end rental agencies will tell you straight that 80-90% of their client base is THAI.

Oh so you were sitting there next to me were you when the developer said what he did witnessed by his son who went to college with me.

No but if I had been, I'd have told you to take what ANY salesman says - be he developer or realtor - with a sack of salt . . . particularly when he's massaging your farang ego

[duanebigsby]

I have said it before and will reiterate it. Any money coming from abroad -pensions capital etc. is an export for Thailand. A retiree may contribute 10 million to 100 million baht to the Thai economy over a 20 year period. In my estimation that is significant and that is where the Thai government should aim the promotions. A one time visitor might contribute 50,000 to 100,000 as an export. What is being exported ? - Thai goods and services without the shipping charges. Just imagine the business that Thailand could do if there were no corruption. We foreigners al have big mouths and tell the bad with the good. That is why most of the best people stay away.

Foreigners are really jeopardising themselves and their futures by staying here. After having said that I am willing to do that for the sake of month to month economy.

The one place your argument falls apart is that the 2 week holiday persons, there are 20 million of them a year, whereas, there are only between 200 and 500 thousand expats living here. Googling the exact numbers is almost impossible.

For every expat spending a bundle, there are many spending very little.

I don't believe that our economic benefit is much more than a pimple compared to 67 million Thai people involved in the economy.

[Jingthing]

Tourists do not buy furniture.

Of course tourism is very important but sometimes that is dampened when tourists are staying at international hotel chains where most of the profits go abroad.

Next ...

[Cypress Hill]

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Tourists do not buy furniture.

Of course tourism is very important but sometimes that is dampened when tourists are staying at international hotel chains where most of the profits go abroad.

Next ...

Yeah next.

A few hundred thousand expats - more than half of whom cause sparks as the bones of their &lt;deleted&gt; scrape the tarmac - make more of a contribution to the Thai economy than millions upon millions of two week millionaires.

OK JT, whatever you say

[garyinhuahin]

I think I saw a newspaper article where a spokesperson of TV said the expat population was in the low millions (1 to 3, I seem to remember).

Posters here seem to agree it's somewhere in the low-mid 100s of K.

Any thoughts about this?

[wow64]

Just going off the posts in this forum I think expats contribute 51% of total GDP.

[Crazy chef 1]

Tourists do not buy furniture.

Of course tourism is very important but sometimes that is dampened when tourists are staying at international hotel chains where most of the profits go abroad.

Next ...

but keeps the ppl employed and all suppliers happy and don't forget the money spent ouside of .the hotel chains

[Jingthing]

It didn't realize it was a competition of tourism vs. expats. Both are good.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mrtoad]

Looks like The usual BS of the Digital Nomad crowd

Edited September 7, 2014 by mrtoad

[Cypress Hill]

It didn't realize it was a competition of tourism vs. expats. Both are good.

Well it's kinda common knowledge that tourism accounts for anything from 6-9% of GDP depending upon whom you believe but I think the OP probably sought to quantify the economic contribution of the Western expat.

If that wasn't the point of the question, maybe he'd care to clarify if he meant tourist AND/OR expat . . . regardless of origin seeing as there are millions of Asians/non-Westerners visiting the country each year.

[Thakkar]

Just going off the posts in this forum I think expats contribute 51% of total GDP.

That, plus you can't even put a price on the fact that we deign to grace them with our presence.

T

[Elmer Gantry]

.

For the penurious tight bastids who worship money above all else, their is no placating them. No matter what the price, it's too much and all must bow down to them when they open their wallets. Most of them are here because "you don't have to tip". How much hateful, begrudging, pinchy pinchy baht do they contribute? To the GNP? Spit. Practically nothing.

Thailand could ban tourism tomorrow and barely hiccup. 6% of the economy gone? Who would miss it? They would make it back in 2 years.

Thais have their own culture, books, art, music, dance. Well established agriculture, factory, wholesale, retail and international trade sectors as well as tons of resources. Thais have a lot going on.

That's why so many cowboys show up, look around for 10 minutes and declare the place their own private plum, ripe for the plucking. "What this place needs is another beer bar." How many...? 10 a week on TVF alone with "I wanna open a _____________ business."

Whatever "IT" is, Thailand has "IT" and thousands of farang are scratching and clawing to work here, live here, invest here.

They really don't need tourism at all.

'nuff said

~

Can you tell me what would happen if all the foreign companies pulled out.What would be left?

[thailiketoo]

.

For the penurious tight bastids who worship money above all else, their is no placating them. No matter what the price, it's too much and all must bow down to them when they open their wallets. Most of them are here because "you don't have to tip". How much hateful, begrudging, pinchy pinchy baht do they contribute? To the GNP? Spit. Practically nothing.

Thailand could ban tourism tomorrow and barely hiccup. 6% of the economy gone? Who would miss it? They would make it back in 2 years.

Thais have their own culture, books, art, music, dance. Well established agriculture, factory, wholesale, retail and international trade sectors as well as tons of resources. Thais have a lot going on.

That's why so many cowboys show up, look around for 10 minutes and declare the place their own private plum, ripe for the plucking. "What this place needs is another beer bar." How many...? 10 a week on TVF alone with "I wanna open a _____________ business."

Whatever "IT" is, Thailand has "IT" and thousands of farang are scratching and clawing to work here, live here, invest here.

They really don't need tourism at all.

'nuff said

~

Can you tell me what would happen if all the foreign companies pulled out.What would be left?

Investment in Thailand Exceeds More Than One Trillion Baht (18/01/2014)

38,400,000 Thais Employed. 207,463 employed foreign projects.

http://thailand.prd.go.th/view_news.php?id=7090&a=2

http://web.nso.go.th/en/survey/data_survey/250857_summary_July57.pdf

[opalred]

the girls i take home i always buy them breakfast

[Jingthing]

It didn't realize it was a competition of tourism vs. expats. Both are good.

Well it's kinda common knowledge that tourism accounts for anything from 6-9% of GDP depending upon whom you believe but I think the OP probably sought to quantify the economic contribution of the Western expat.

If that wasn't the point of the question, maybe he'd care to clarify if he meant tourist AND/OR expat . . . regardless of origin seeing as there are millions of Asians/non-Westerners visiting the country each year.

Like I said if you believe the Philippines numbers several local level jobs for each retired expat based on multiplier effect of imported money.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thakkar]

the girls i take home i always buy them breakfast

Give yourself more credit, man. Think of the multiplier effect of that breakfast. It's gotta come out of her other end at some point and require sewerage treatment. That's gotta boost the Thai GDP, don't it? Give yourself a well-deserved pat on the back, you job-creating contributor to the Thai economy, you.

T

[RecklessRon]

Speaking of the economy:

I have money in Thai banks. That benefits the bank much more than myself.

I don't work or have a business so I have little effect on employment except that which stems from my spending.

Every time I pay a mortgage payment or rent for house, car, motorbike or anything else, whenever I buy a soda or beer or food or clothes a pencil or ANYTHING ... each satang I spend on non-subsidized items contributes positively to the Thai economy.

So, IMHO, as long as the amount of subsidies I receive are less than my total expenditures my presence benefits the Thai economy. (Of course the day all the apts are rented, there are no houses for sale or rent to locals, all the restaurants are fully booked and all the other businesses are too busy to serve me that will change).

[garyinhuahin]

It didn't realize it was a competition of tourism vs. expats. Both are good.

Well it's kinda common knowledge that tourism accounts for anything from 6-9% of GDP depending upon whom you believe but I think the OP probably sought to quantify the economic contribution of the Western expat.

If that wasn't the point of the question, maybe he'd care to clarify if he meant tourist AND/OR expat . . . regardless of origin seeing as there are millions of Asians/non-Westerners visiting the country each year.

Actually, I've been trying to relate the (seemingly non-existent) numbers for the total direct contribution of individual Western expats (as opposed to foreign investment or foreign companies operating here) in comparison to tourism because the latter is relatively well documented.

btw, as far as I can figure the spread from 6% to 9% comes from incorporating the numbers for domestic tourism. I can believe it. Here in Hua Hin, Thai visitation has grown rapidly and lots of new attractions, hotels, clubs, etc. have sprung up to serve that business. Meanwhile foreign tourism has sagged, and expat home sales are way below what they were before 2008.

Also, I should probably have titled the thread as "How much is our contribution?" versus "What is our contribution?".

[Keesters]

Hardly economic but if Farang weren't here they'd have nothing to talk about except the food. And even the spicy part of that is Farang.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird%27s_eye_chili

All chilis found around the world today have their origins in Mexico, Central America, and South America. They were spread by the Spanish and the Portuguese in their quest to build a global empire, and are still grown in their former colonies in Africa and Asia. The chili varieties found in Southeast Asia today were imported and cultivated by Spanish and Portuguese colonists and traders.

[samran]

A bunch of elderly migrants justifying their existence. Such a funny thread.

[Berkshire]

.

For the penurious tight bastids who worship money above all else, their is no placating them. No matter what the price, it's too much and all must bow down to them when they open their wallets. Most of them are here because "you don't have to tip". How much hateful, begrudging, pinchy pinchy baht do they contribute? To the GNP? Spit. Practically nothing.

Thailand could ban tourism tomorrow and barely hiccup. 6% of the economy gone? Who would miss it? They would make it back in 2 years.

Thais have their own culture, books, art, music, dance. Well established agriculture, factory, wholesale, retail and international trade sectors as well as tons of resources. Thais have a lot going on.

That's why so many cowboys show up, look around for 10 minutes and declare the place their own private plum, ripe for the plucking. "What this place needs is another beer bar." How many...? 10 a week on TVF alone with "I wanna open a _____________ business."

Whatever "IT" is, Thailand has "IT" and thousands of farang are scratching and clawing to work here, live here, invest here.

They really don't need tourism at all.

'nuff said

~

Can you tell me what would happen if all the foreign companies pulled out.What would be left?

Most of the foreign companies in Thailand are Asian; Japanese, Korean, Chinese, etc. This thread is about western expats, is it not?

[wow64]

Just going off the posts in this forum I think expats contribute 51% of total GDP.

That, plus you can't even put a price on the fact that we deign to grace them with our presence.

T

If you add that in its closer to 99.9% total GDP the country would be Bankrupt without the expat community.

[Aussieroaming]

Who is we when you refer to the mainstay of the economy...tourists or long term residents.

I assume long term residents contribute similar to middle class Thais.