Back to backs on 30 visa exempt - a myth?

[wilcopops]

I don't think it's a myth.

You saw in the news last week that plenty of Russians have up and left no not being able to do the back to back border hops.

I know of a guy who was working here illegally (teaching English), he'd been here for three and half years on various tourist visas and visa exempts. He tried to do an out/in at Ranong during the time when news of this first broke and was refused entry. Actually, he was interviewed by immigration at Ranong for more than an hour and after being initially refused entry, they gave him 7 days to get a proper visa. He's since returned to the UK.

Actually that's not really my point.....i HAVEN"T seen lots of Russians and I still don't think the reports 9or numbers) are reliable.

I also think that some may be changing to tourist visas, but I think most were doing that already.

A big change would account for a quantifiable drop in visa runs and I don't think that is established either.......

if someone had real numbers BEFORE and AFTER then there would be a case, but as I said the regulations and enforcement are introduced with no real research.

[ubonjoe]

This is the first confirmation I have read that the VE extensions are now in place at Immigration Offices.

As far as Tourist visas are concerned in the U.K. anyway, I can only relate to the obstacles now in place.

Visas cannot be obtained from the various Consular Offices around the country. Visas cannot be obtained by post. Entries cannot be made

on forms downloaded from Consular Offices. Passports have to be lodged at the Embassy in London, then collected 24 hours later or more. For those

far from London, this is just not possible, so people are tempted to try other ways.

Why is the whole issue made so difficult. If LOS want more revenue, why not charge 1000 baht on entry as other countries do and allow 60 days?

Since January of this year you can apply by post to the embassy in London but you cannot apply by post to the consulates. See: http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/401

If am certain you can download the application for each individual consulate and use it at that consulate only. Same for the embassy you have use the form posted on their website. Nothing new about this.

[wilcopops]

So was it all based on nothing?

i still think that the most likely reason is that these visa runners just didn't exist in the first place.

That's funny Do you really belive there didn't exist any visa runners

Considering the vast number of threads started on Thai Visa and the pages & pages of messages posted in each thread by people impacted by the decision to limit visa exempt entries, to proclaim "i still think that the most likely reason is that these visa runners just didn't exist in the first place" is utter nonsense. There are scads of business that exist, or did exist, for no other purpose than to carry people to and from border crossings.

Aside from stirring the pot on a Friday night, I can't see what purpose the O/P was in aid of anyway. It certainly contains no facts or evidence or any reason why it would matter one way or the other to anyone who is not a user of serial visa exempt entries. Maybe he thinks the whole thing was a conspiracy concocted by little green men who arrived in UFOs. Many of them are spotted late on Friday or Saturday nights, so anything is possible.

"Considering the vast number of threads started on Thai Visa and the pages & pages of messages posted in each thread by people impacted by the decision to limit visa exempt entries, " - there are in fact VERY FEW stories referring to VEs and back to backs and I think many of those are apocryphal too.....

[bangkoklasse]

So was it all based on nothing?

i still think that the most likely reason is that these visa runners just didn't exist in the first place.

That's funny Do you really belive there didn't exist any visa runners

Considering the vast number of threads started on Thai Visa and the pages & pages of messages posted in each thread by people impacted by the decision to limit visa exempt entries, to proclaim "i still think that the most likely reason is that these visa runners just didn't exist in the first place" is utter nonsense. There are scads of business that exist, or did exist, for no other purpose than to carry people to and from border crossings.

Aside from stirring the pot on a Friday night, I can't see what purpose the O/P was in aid of anyway. It certainly contains no facts or evidence or any reason why it would matter one way or the other to anyone who is not a user of serial visa exempt entries. Maybe he thinks the whole thing was a conspiracy concocted by little green men who arrived in UFOs. Many of them are spotted late on Friday or Saturday nights, so anything is possible.

Very true......and only a troll would say that visa runners didn't exist

[wilcopops]

I have seen little here that would suggest my initial proposition is incorrect.

Some hard evidence of visa runs reducing or a boom in Ed visas would be interesting... But so far everything isnpure anecdote.

I still think the concept is largely myth

Have you never been at one of the borders and seen all the people just turning around and going back to Thailand again? And most of them getting the visa exemption. At every border every day......

I frequently travel through Thailand's borders - North (Laos) and South (Malaysia) and by air.....one thing I can't check is the kind of visa these people are getting and whether they are back-to-back, - 20 million people enter Thailand as tourists every year, and peering over the shoulder of the odd person at an immigration kiosk is not in my opinion a good way to get an accurate picture of what is going on.

[seancbk]

I have seen little here that would suggest my initial proposition is incorrect.

Some hard evidence of visa runs reducing or a boom in Ed visas would be interesting... But so far everything isnpure anecdote.

I still think the concept is largely myth

I and a bunch of people I know must be mythical then.

I did 7 back to back trips with visa exempt entries between Oct 2013 and May 2014.

[khunerik]

It's very funny that someone can say back to back visa runners didn't exist and was only a myth I suppose those people that I knew doing that didn't exist then

[Arandora]

"So was it all based on nothing?

As ever these dictums pop hop with little or no evidence or planning to support them....and now, despite all the sabre rattling, nothing appears to be happening.

Is this because in reality, there were hardly any people actually doing back-to-back visa exempt runs?"

We stay in Khao Lak and have for two years renewed our 90 day visas at Ranong, first by boat across to Victoria Point and last February across to the Andaman Club. On both occasions we were passed in our car by mini-buses, often two or three at a time in convoy hurtling north at ridiculously high speeds causing numbers of near misses and in two instances very serious crashes. Three such vehicles passed us on our way north last time and when we arrived at the pier there was another one already waiting. Each disgorged a full load of passengers who went over to Club, most returning on the next boat. We stayed for lunch at least and next February will be staying overnight to avoid any I/O risk.

Every day a similar number of minibuses drive at high speed through Khao Lak presumably from Phuket at about 9am in the morning and return back about 5 - 6pm when school buses are returning pupils from Takua Pa. This will have been happening at many places on the route south. God only knows how there have been no fatalities (that I am aware of) as these convoys come down the wrong side of the highway forcing anything or anyone coming in the opposite direction to take evasive action. Reports from friends resident in Khao Lak say that even allowing for it being Low Season for visitors, the number of these minibuses has dried to a trickle and has made the highway through Khao Lak and indeed all points from Phuket to Ranong a much safer place to be for our return in a few weeks.

So on the contrary Wilcopops' view of reality was completely wrong on the basis of this evidence of a very welcome effect of cutting back on the Visa Runners abusing the I/O system.

[Arandora]

This is the first confirmation I have read that the VE extensions are now in place at Immigration Offices.

As far as Tourist visas are concerned in the U.K. anyway, I can only relate to the obstacles now in place.

Visas cannot be obtained from the various Consular Offices around the country.

Actually the Thai consulates in the UK still issue tourist visa and other types too, on the same day. But their websites are misleading and they have to be contacted in person.

You can obtain Tourist Visas at any Thai Consulate and the Embassy in London by post.

You can obtain a TV and Non-Imm O Visa in person at the Embassy in London, with or without an appointment.

You cannot obtain a Non-Imm Visa at Hull, don't know of others except Liverpool.

You can Email or fax your supporting information for a Non-Imm O to Hull, who copy it to the Embassy for approval. When approved the Consulate Email you and you contact them to make an appointment for the visa to be applied in your passport.

Their websites are only as accurate as the information on updates by the Thai Embassy who are now controlling the Consulates far more more closely and individually than before.

[wilcopops]

"So was it all based on nothing?

As ever these dictums pop hop with little or no evidence or planning to support them....and now, despite all the sabre rattling, nothing appears to be happening.

Is this because in reality, there were hardly any people actually doing back-to-back visa exempt runs?"

We stay in Khao Lak and have for two years renewed our 90 day visas at Ranong, first by boat across to Victoria Point and last February across to the Andaman Club. On both occasions we were passed in our car by mini-buses, often two or three at a time in convoy hurtling north at ridiculously high speeds causing numbers of near misses and in two instances very serious crashes. Three such vehicles passed us on our way north last time and when we arrived at the pier there was another one already waiting. Each disgorged a full load of passengers who went over to Club, most returning on the next boat. We stayed for lunch at least and next February will be staying overnight to avoid any I/O risk.

Every day a similar number of minibuses drive at high speed through Khao Lak presumably from Phuket at about 9am in the morning and return back about 5 - 6pm when school buses are returning pupils from Takua Pa. This will have been happening at many places on the route south. God only knows how there have been no fatalities (that I am aware of) as these convoys come down the wrong side of the highway forcing anything or anyone coming in the opposite direction to take evasive action. Reports from friends resident in Khao Lak say that even allowing for it being Low Season for visitors, the number of these minibuses has dried to a trickle and has made the highway through Khao Lak and indeed all points from Phuket to Ranong a much safer place to be for our return in a few weeks.

So on the contrary Wilcopops' view of reality was completely wrong on the basis of this evidence of a very welcome effect of cutting back on the Visa Runners abusing the I/O system.

firstly how can a suggestion be wrong? You don't seem to understand my point of view.

secondly as with all the evidence put forward so far, however compelling it may sound it is only anecdotal....and you conclusion is risible as it shows you don't fully understand my OP.

Edited September 13, 2014 by wilcopops

[MisterStretch]

Taxi should not be more than 600 baht. HY/Dannok. I've lived in the Hat for nearly a decade, now work in Malaysia and sometimes use taxis or buses to get to the border.

If you don't want taxi or kamikaze van, get on one of the buses going south (cheap)...get off at the border, get a motosai to take you through and bring you back (100 baht) to the duty free, where you can get a taxi back to Hat Yai for 600 baht.

I would only recommend Sadao/Dannok now, if you have ANY exemptions in your passport this year. Pedang Besar is run by idiots, who can only do the "four count"...doesn't matter if you have months between each exemption....and have never stayed 30 days over the past year (I'm only home weekends, maybe once every 6 weeks).

At Dannok...they counted, as well...counted twice, this past weekend, but I had my Malaysia resident card and my work visa in the passport and he let me in...though it's probably my 6th or 7th exemption for the year.

[TheSpade]

Back to back border runners exist.

I was living in Thailand for 1 year until recently and after my double entry visa expired I did back to back border runs for 6 months.

I saw the same people on the buses every time.

Most of them were working illegally as English teachers,

I wasn't working I should add. Just was too unorganized and lazy to arrange flight / travel elsewhere and before I knew it 30 days had rolled around again and it was time for another visa run.

I left just after the clampdown was announced so I've no idea how it affected these people and what they are doing now instead,

I honestly struggle to understand why any Westerner (which most of these people I met were) would want to work illegally in Thailand considering the poor wages and the potential consequences if you get caught.

It's a great place but I wouldn't even want to work here legally in any job let alone illegally in a low paying job like English teaching.

I've no doubt the visa run companies are hurting bad as if most of these people have gone home, switched to proper tourist visa or got ED visas then they have no need for the mini vans except maybe to active further entries of double entry tourist visas.

And I seem to get non stop emails now from the company I went with about new policies and to alert me they are still going every day and how they can do this and that - something I never got before which makes me think they really need to get the word out they are still in business.

[Arandora]

I have seen little here that would suggest my initial proposition is incorrect.

Some hard evidence of visa runs reducing or a boom in Ed visas would be interesting... But so far everything isnpure anecdote.

I still think the concept is largely myth

Have you never been at one of the borders and seen all the people just turning around and going back to Thailand again? And most of them getting the visa exemption. At every border every day......

Wilciopops "suggestion" sounds pretty much like a conclusion to me and I would suggest instead of criticising those who dare to conclude otherwise and the evidence they provide he should provide his own evidence to support his "suggestion". Clearly his disbelief of the information I posted is risible.

[khunerik]

Back to back border runners exist.

I was living in Thailand for 1 year until recently and after my double entry visa expired I did back to back border runs for 6 months.

I saw the same people on the buses every time.

Most of them were working illegally as English teachers,

I wasn't working I should add. Just was too unorganized and lazy to arrange flight / travel elsewhere and before I knew it 30 days had rolled around again and it was time for another visa run.

I left just after the clampdown was announced so I've no idea how it affected these people and what they are doing now instead,

I honestly struggle to understand why any Westerner (which most of these people I met were) would want to work illegally in Thailand considering the poor wages and the potential consequences if you get caught.

It's a great place but I wouldn't even want to work here legally in any job let alone illegally in a low paying job like English teaching.

I've no doubt the visa run companies are hurting bad as if most of these people have gone home, switched to proper tourist visa or got ED visas then they have no need for the mini vans except maybe to active further entries of double entry tourist visas.

And I seem to get non stop emails now from the company I went with about new policies and to alert me they are still going every day and how they can do this and that - something I never got before which makes me think they really need to get the word out they are still in business.

That's true, and I have the same experience. I posted here a month ago about my neighbor that started as a border runner and then continued the same thing with tourist visas after a while. But then he got problem after getting too many Tourist visas in Vientiane.

There did exist many many thousend people like that

[wilcopops]

No - one is producing any hard evidence - they don't seem to realise that their stories are anecdotal. They also don't explain the lack of ramifications..

As I said just saying "visa-runners exist" is not what I'm talking about.....I'm suggesting that they may have been or now are on tourist visas anyway and that if there were "thousands" it would be impossible to tell by a monthly trip on a minibus whether these people were on the same visas or not.

i said a long time ago that i thought this admin was actually taking actions without any prior research or real knowledge of what was happening....and no-oneew has produced any figures to say one way or the other.....all we can say is that there doesn't appear to be any significant change.....there what were they trying to achieve?

[wilcopops]

Back to back border runners exist.

I was living in Thailand for 1 year until recently and after my double entry visa expired I did back to back border runs for 6 months.

I saw the same people on the buses every time.

Most of them were working illegally as English teachers,

I wasn't working I should add. Just was too unorganized and lazy to arrange flight / travel elsewhere and before I knew it 30 days had rolled around again and it was time for another visa run.

I left just after the clampdown was announced so I've no idea how it affected these people and what they are doing now instead,

I honestly struggle to understand why any Westerner (which most of these people I met were) would want to work illegally in Thailand considering the poor wages and the potential consequences if you get caught.

It's a great place but I wouldn't even want to work here legally in any job let alone illegally in a low paying job like English teaching.

I've no doubt the visa run companies are hurting bad as if most of these people have gone home, switched to proper tourist visa or got ED visas then they have no need for the mini vans except maybe to active further entries of double entry tourist visas.

And I seem to get non stop emails now from the company I went with about new policies and to alert me they are still going every day and how they can do this and that - something I never got before which makes me think they really need to get the word out they are still in business.

"I've no doubt the visa run companies are hurting bad as if most of these people have gone home, switched to proper tourist visa or got ED visas then they have no need for the mini vans except maybe to active further entries of double entry tourist visas." - so they do still need visa runs - you are contradicting yourself.

I live and work here and have done so for a long time - my work includes a lot of travel out of the country... I see visa runners but I don't know what visas they have - and I still see them...I still see minibuses, coaches etc.........whatI don't see is any significant change.......

[larsjohnsson]

No - one is producing any hard evidence - they don't seem to realise that their stories are anecdotal. They also don't explain the lack of ramifications..

As I said just saying "visa-runners exist" is not what I'm talking about.....I'm suggesting that they may have been or now are on tourist visas anyway and that if there were "thousands" it would be impossible to tell by a monthly trip on a minibus whether these people were on the same visas or not.

i said a long time ago that i thought this admin was actually taking actions without any prior research or real knowledge of what was happening....and no-oneew has produced any figures to say one way or the other.....all we can say is that there doesn't appear to be any significant change.....there what were they trying to achieve?

So where are your hard evidence?

[shanahan]

Agree with the OP, post hard evidence or br silent?

[stevenl]

No - one is producing any hard evidence - they don't seem to realise that their stories are anecdotal. They also don't explain the lack of ramifications..

As I said just saying "visa-runners exist" is not what I'm talking about.....I'm suggesting that they may have been or now are on tourist visas anyway and that if there were "thousands" it would be impossible to tell by a monthly trip on a minibus whether these people were on the same visas or not.

i said a long time ago that i thought this admin was actually taking actions without any prior research or real knowledge of what was happening....and no-oneew has produced any figures to say one way or the other.....all we can say is that there doesn't appear to be any significant change.....there what were they trying to achieve?

Please use the standard TV font.

You're suggesting things, and rebutting indications that there has been a change for lack of proof.

I'm looking forward to your proof that things have not changed, after all that bis your claim, but so far without proof.

[stevenl]

Agree with the OP, post hard evidence or br silent?

Sorry, it does not work that way. The OP makes a claim, so he is the one who should prove it or shut up, not the other way round.

[khunerik]

You might want to read some of the posts about the crowds at the consular section in Vientiane applying for tourist visas after visa runs for exempt entries were restricted.

You must prove that or he doesn't belive you

[wilcopops]

You might want to read some of the posts about the crowds at the consular section in Vientiane applying for tourist visas after visa runs for exempt entries were restricted.

Where are they?

so far every post - including yours - is subjective. Just repeating the myth doesn't make it true.

Edited September 14, 2014 by wilcopops

[ubonjoe]

Just do a search for tourist visa Vientiane and you will find them.

There have been plenty of posts on this topic to prove it is not myth, If you don't want to accept them that is your problem.

Topic closed no need for further discussion.