America is making citizens of all countries fill out a form when creating a new account

[Asiantravel]

I went to my bank this morning to redeposit an amount in term deposit account. I already have a savings account with this bank that enables me to take out money whenever I need. But when the term deposit starts they create a new account specifically for that. So today I was presented with a brand-new form which they said in the bank has only been in use about two months. It said on the top of the form for US citizens and non-US citizens.

It had three main questions and 4 supplementary questions. The main questions were such as have you ever been an American citizen and have you ever had a green card. Have you ever renounced your American citizenship.

Then I noticed the female branch manager was standing near me so I asked her why I was required to fill out this form when it was quite clear my passport was not American. And then, with a rather annoyed look on her face, she said everyone was being made to fill out this form even Thai customers!

She even walked over to get a stack of papers to show me how new bank accounts being opened by Thai customers who had also needed to fill in this form. It was clear they were not happy with this requirement.

I guess if you refuse to fill out the form they wouldn't allow you to deposit the money in the new account. But I just think it's a bit cheeky for the United States of America to make people from other countries comply with the ridiculous standards it imposes on its own citizens.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Asiantravel

[tifino]

money laundering

tax evasion

or whatever - looks like they've identified some persons (recently?) coming back into le' States and some loophole was being exploited?

so long as it is the Bank's Ink being wasted, you don't have anything to lose in a extra Form, do you?

[Crossy]

Yup, me too at SCB last week. No issue really, tick 'no' everywhere and sign.

[Asiantravel]

money laundering

tax evasion

or whatever - looks like they've identified some persons (recently?) coming back into le' States and some loophole was being exploited?

so long as it is the Bank's Ink being wasted, you don't have anything to lose in a extra Form, do you?

The point is I'm sure I'm not the only one who has better things to do with their time than to fill out forms to meet the “ requirements “ of another country which I have nothing to do with whatsoever.

[Jingthing]

As an American, I also find this situation disgusting. Oh well! Sorry for the inconvenience!

[tifino]

oh well! lets see what happens to the dudes who are obligated with entering one or more Yesses

maybe it's a junta thing in disguise

[Jingthing]

No it's about a USA mandate to the world.

It's increasing hassles for USA expats everywhere.

The foreign banks had a choice to cooperate or not.

Thailand is cooperating.

If they hadn't, many or most Americans would need to leave ... hard to exist without a local bank account.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[Asiantravel]

As an American, I also find this situation disgusting. Oh well! Sorry for the inconvenience!

It's not your fault JT. It's more the symbolism of it. It's like the activities of the IRS appears to be slowly permeating now into the lives of non-US citizens . (And it comes directly on the heels of what I consider was nothing short of disgusting behaviour on their part over the alleged loss of those e-mails )

[Pib]

All part of FACTA requirements. A few weeks ago I opened a Krungsri account...when the bank rep saw my U.S. passport she mumbled FACTA and pulled out two additional simple forms for me to fill out... a W-9 IRS form (your name, address, and social security number....didn't have to show my social security card) and a form which was basically a combo info & questionnaire form regarding FACTA. Just took a few minutes to complete these two simple forms...easy. Other than the 5 extra minutes to read these, complete, sign these two forms the account opening was easy...got a debit card...and got ibanking. And the combo info/questionnaire form was really geared to ask you several questions as to whether you had U.S. citizenship in addition to another citizenship...so this form was also geared to try to flush out any dual citizens also....I expect any non-Thai/farang person may end up seeing this form and depending on how they answer it which indicated they are "also" a U.S. citizen then they'll have to fill out the W-9 form also. But as mentioned, other than these two additional forms, the account opening went easy for this old American.

[tifino]

'ki kiat' will become a very common reaction

[mikebike]

Here is a clear description of what the OP encountered: http://americansabroad.org/issues/fatca/fatca-bad-america/

The reasons foreign institutions are complying is: "If an institution does not comply, the U.S. will impose a 30% withholding tax on all its transactions concerning U.S. securities, including the proceeds of sale of securities."

World Police....

[Soutpeel]

a form similar to this has been in place in Singapore for quite a few years already, when I opened an account with Citi in Singapore had to sign something similar, so maybe Thailand is catching up with the rest of the region thats all

[Soutpeel]

Then I noticed the female branch manager was standing near me so I asked her why I was required to fill out this form when it was quite clear my passport was not American. And then, with a rather annoyed look on her face, she said everyone was being made to fill out this form even Thai customers!

yes but you could also be a dual national or green card holder, what PP you open the account with is somewhat irrelevant, the are covering their <deleted> thats all, if you lie on the declaration and are caught out the banks wouldnt be liable thats all...

[Mrjlh]

Try to explain to them (a foreign bank) that "not everyone" has a Tax ID Number (T.I.N.) assigned! It took longer the get pass that issued than the paperwork! Thanks a lot I.R.S.

[Jingthing]

Can't you just put your SS number instead of tax id?

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited September 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[maxman71]

This is just tip of the iceberg. I think you'll see more and more countries requiring this sort of thing. From a financial, tax and banking standpoint, the world is getting smaller and the elite banking cartel wants to know where every penny, stang, pffenig, schilling, pence, yuan, etc. is and who has it...the "anti-money laundering, drug money, etc." schtick is just what they spew to the masses to get them to buy into to it, or at least not rebel against it.

[maxman71]

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All part of FACTA requirements. A few weeks ago I opened a Krungsri account...when the bank rep saw my U.S. passport she mumbled FACTA and pulled out two additional simple forms for me to fill out... a W-9 IRS form (your name, address, and social security number....didn't have to show my social security card) and a form which was basically a combo info & questionnaire form regarding FACTA. Just took a few minutes to complete these two simple forms...easy. Other than the 5 extra minutes to read these, complete, sign these two forms the account opening was easy...got a debit card...and got ibanking. And the combo info/questionnaire form was really geared to ask you several questions as to whether you had U.S. citizenship in addition to another citizenship...so this form was also geared to try to flush out any dual citizens also....I expect any non-Thai/farang person may end up seeing this form and depending on how they answer it which indicated they are "also" a U.S. citizen then they'll have to fill out the W-9 form also. But as mentioned, other than these two additional forms, the account opening went easy for this old American.

I had a similar experience when I wire transferred a fairly large sum of cash out of my Thai personal account to my US personal account a couple of months ago. Just had to fill out a form that required my TIN/SSN. Since I have been sending in my FBAR's and additional forms like the 5471 (as I own more than 10% of a foreign corp; i.e. a Thai Ltd. Co.) it was no problem. The IRS already knows about my overseas accounts and income and all taxes are paid.

You are correct; this is all part of US FATCA. It is no news to Yanks (and US Green Card holders) who have been paying attention to these developments going back to 2009 when the IRS instituted their partial amnesty programs to get Yanks to declare their overseas accounts and income. Most of that had to do with getting FBAR's sent in. But the FBAR only goes so far in that if a Yank doesn't comply, it's hard for the IRS to know about offshore accounts. So the next step was FATCA to get the foreign banks to effectively act as an arm of the IRS.

So now the net is closing in on Yanks who are still not in compliance. Maybe we'll hear from Yanks who are not in compliance getting hammered by a very nasty IRS audit when some foreign bank reports their overseas account(s) in Thailand or elsewhere that have not been reported as required. Or maybe we won't hear from them; an IRS audit is not something many people will want to blab all over TV or some other public forum.

Welcome to the New World Order. One of the next steps will be "bank bail-ins". Go Google this term and specifically "Cyprus bank bail-in"...

[55Jay]

I'm a bit sqeamish thinking about all these forms with our names, address and SSNs on them, laying around Thai banks.

I've noted Immigration uses stray/spare copies of passports as scrap paper and once, I received a document which, on the back, was a full and complete copy of a UK's citizens passport main info and photo page.

[Suradit69]

And then, with a rather annoyed look on her face, she said everyone was being made to fill out this form even Thai customers!

Do you really think America is the only country that is (or soon will be) hunting down tax avoiders and money launderers?

Thailand is probably wise in getting some information on all depositors now. EU countries and even the Thai government will be looking for more tax revenue from income earners and from those inheriting money. Where better to find evidence of either than by looking through bank accounts.

Tougher Thai inheritance tax laws to be applied against the wealthy

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761748-tougher-thai-inheritance-tax-laws-to-be-applied-against-the-wealthy/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=feed:%20thaivisa24%20(today#39;s best thaivisa topics)

Edited September 19, 2014 by Suradit69

[ldnguy]

Of course they have to ask everyone. If they only asked USA citizens, how would they find people who had renounced US citizenship? They don't know until they ask. And they have everyone sign so that they can be prosecuted if they turn out to be lying. Sounds like quite standard procedure.

[pomchop]

I suspect some of it might have something to do with terrorists moving money around for their shxthead brothers to kill a few more folks.

[IMA_FARANG]

In the U.S. we have two separate groups.

It's a Pro and Con thing.

There is Progress and that moves everything forward.

Then there is our Congress, and that moves everything backward.

Now the U.S. Congress has passed a new act to regulate the legal and legitimate transfer of funds by law abiding U.S. citizens who happen to live and work outside the U.S.

It's taking back the lawful and legal legitimate transfer of such funds at least 2 decades.

And as I mentioned above this overseas funds banking regulation act was passed by our CON gress.

Factoid:

On 15 October 2013 my bank in the U.S. ceased doing monthly wire transfers of my funds on deposit in their bank.

My funds were deposited there from that subversive organization called the United States Social Security Administration.

My retirement pension.

My bank said this was a temporary measure until they clarified the new requlations.

They still will not transfer my funds from my U.S. bank to my Thai bank account.

On 1 August 2014 I completed the direct transfer of my Social Security pension by direct deposit to my bank in Thailand.

So it took me from the 15th of October 2031 until the 1st of August 2014 to make that transfer.

But I'm not angry, just sad about the situation.

I merely realize it as another part of the inevitable decline of the U.S.

Like the Roman Empire, it is slowly drowning in it's own decay and incompetence.

Edited September 19, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[noendtoit]

To say Uncle Sam is "cheeky" is an understatement. But as an American, and unlike JingThing, I won't apologize. I may be a citizen, I may be stuck with all the intrusive laws, but I don't consider it "my" government. It is a rogue government run by Big Business and has been for some time. I voted against the a(ss)holes in every election, but a majority of US voters always seem to listen to the money. I despise the US government.

[maewang99]

Thailand elected to adopt FATCA, but only partially so far. So if you go to a Thai bank, FATCA applies because you are in Thailand. If you think it's unfair that it only refers to US W-2 tax forms, then just wait a little bit.

FATCA applies to every account holder, but for now, and I haven't been able to track it down as to exactly why, it only applies to new accounts plus accounts for which the account holder did not have a Thai national ID card when they had opened it previously. But the intention of the full on agreement, one would think, would apply to all account holders, not just new ones.

However, I know for a fact that for example, Maybank Kim Eng in Chiangmai has yet to call any of it's existing account holders in to sign the waivers unless they are "foreigners".

We all all encounter the same elsewhere, not just in Thailand. It's part of our new 'global world'.

This thing is only beginning to skim the surface. The reporting will tighten in both directions. For example, given that 100% of the "foreign" holdings of Thai securities are both commingled and held in the name of nominees, and that those holdings are considered so relevant that the amounts of "foreign" versus "Thai" trading is reported daily... that identifying who is really "foreign", and who really is "Thai", may, one day not so far off, require some 'adjustments' to be made.

Edited September 20, 2014 by maewang99

[devaram]

This is because many wealthy Americans are renouncing their passport to buy citizenship in another country to avoid paying tax. By us law you may still owe tax even if you are no longer a citizen so theoretically all non us citizens are potential us tax evaders.

[Mrjlh]

Can't you just put your SS number instead of tax id?

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Forgot to add that's what I did. They finally gave up.

[pmarlin]

As an American, I also find this situation disgusting. Oh well! Sorry for the inconvenience!

I don't like it also but I will never apologize for what those a-holes in Washington DC do.

[Asiantravel]

This is because many wealthy Americans are renouncing their passport to buy citizenship in another country to avoid paying tax. By us law you may still owe tax even if you are no longer a citizen so theoretically all non us citizens are potential us tax evaders.

Thanks for answering that because I meant to ask why were they asking on the form above renouncing citizenship.

So are you saying that if you are a US citizen it is impossible to relinquish your tax obligations for the rest of your life no matter what measures you try to adopt?

[laolover88]

Are you not just so happy and fortunate that you are not American? Of course the UK poodle will will get round to it , one day!

[jayceenik]

This is because many wealthy Americans are renouncing their passport to buy citizenship in another country to avoid paying tax. By us law you may still owe tax even if you are no longer a citizen so theoretically all non us citizens are potential us tax evaders.

Thanks for answering that because I meant to ask why were they asking on the form above renouncing citizenship.

So are you saying that if you are a US citizen it is impossible to relinquish your tax obligations for the rest of your life no matter what measures you try to adopt?

Google the details about renouncing a US citizenship. Frightening !!

And check also the financial misadventures that have struck people with dual citizenship who thought they were clear of US laws because they considered themselves true citizens of their other nationality and hadn't lived in the US for a long time.

There are several amusing trick applications of that law.

Like preventing you from entering the US again if you have renounced your citizenship because of tax reason. They would arrest you at the border anyway if you hadn't paid your full taxes before absconding.

I renounced mine decades ago at the US consulate in Brussels.

At that time there were none of these pesky IRS laws but there was an awful lot of signed declarations to make.

The procedure was free then.