Apology was good, but rape is a big problem in Thai society

[georgemandm]

Hi seajae good on you mate that is what I have been trying to tell the di?k heads out there who think they know what go's on in Australia but live here to long and not go back home to see for there own eyes

[AYJAYDEE]

In the period 2011-2012 there were over 51000 sexual assaults reported in Australia. That figure does not include those under the age of 18. Given that Australia's population is one third that of Thailand those figures are somewhat alarming. That's a sexual assault every ten minutes.

But you would have to specify exactly what "sexual assault" in those figures meant.

!. Rape

2 Man pinches womans bottom on bus

Both sexual assault

in Australia a wolf whistle or saying something with a sexual inference are regarded as sexual assault, it does not have to be physical

http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/25.%20Sexual%20Offences/%E2%80%98rape%E2%80%99-penetrative-sexual-offence

[blu3]

You can quote any rape statistics you like for Thailand but they are unlikely to represent the true picture.

Fact of the matter is that most rapes here are not reported. I'm told that it's very rare that the police which actually act effectively on rape cases so most girls will never report. There needs to be proper penalty and enforcement for rape offences in this country.

What I find equally alarming is that I have heard many tv series have storylines which show effectively lead to the rape of a woman - only for said woman to eventually fall in love with her attacker! Surely the industry knows better than to glamorise this way of thinking?

[Lakegeneve]

My gf says you can't rape your partner/wife/gf.

Consent is already assumed and the woman has no choice but to comply.

Girl says 'no', man just does it anyway, his right.

Try that one in a western country!

It was only recently that it became a criminal offence if a husband raped his wife in Thailand. Until the the middle of 2007, a husband could rape his wife with impunity, it was not a criminal offence.

The law was finally amended in mid 2007 by the then coup appointed parliament to define rape in marriage as a criminal act. This after lobbying for decades by Thai womens groups and NGOs.

Also, don't forget the Thai concept of 'blum' as popularised in many lakorns. Andrew Biggs wrote on this a few years ago and probably best explains it;

In Thai they have a verb called blum - and it's an integral part of many soaps. If you "blum" somebody, then you forcibly have sex with them. I know, I know, that's "rape", but the Thai language has a separate word for "rape" as well. This is "blum", the idea being that you rape a woman in order for her to become your girlfriend, or in order for her company to do business with you.

Now that's bizarre! The message here? Ladies, when a man rapes you, instead of going to the police and having him arrested and locked up, ya gotta either marry him or do business with his company. Worse, in the scene where an actor "blums" an actress, we see the violent part. She screams and tries to wrest herself free, while he slaps and grabs her and throws her onto the bed. That's okay to watch - a good education for any young man wanting to force himself on a girl - but when it comes to the sex, we suddenly cross to an advertisement or it's back to that bloody candle again.

Lakorns really do give a warped view of already bad cultural attitudes. They have a huge influence on youngsters as an ABAC survey found back in 2008;

Children enjoy sexual assault scenes on TVs: survey

A recent survey has revealed shocking findings: many children enjoy watching scenes of rapes on TV and they come to see sexual assaults as something common.

"Some children even say they want to be like leading male characters in TV series so that they can rape a woman," Dr Noppadon Kannika said Tuesday as the head of the Assumption University's research centre, "This is worrying".

Conducted from April 24 to April 27, the survey covered 2,159 respondents in Bangkok and major cities. The respondent age starts from two years old up.

According to the survey, raping scenes are the favourite among 21.1 per cent of children aged between 13 and 19 years old, 10.3 per cent of children aged between two and six years old and 6.4 per cent of those aged from seven to 12 years old.

The Nation

[trainman34014]

I know a Thai woman of 42 who was brutally raped and impregnated by her boyfriend when she was 31. She had never had a sexual relationship before and it was her first boyfriend; they had only been dating for a week and he sexually attacked her on the third date, quite seriously injuring her in the process. She and her parents went to the Police and they said can't do anything as he will say she consented, and anyway if she didn't want to have a sexual relationship with him she shouldn't have gone out with him !!

I'm sure i don't need to tell the rest of the story but the child from this rape is now 11 years old and cared for by the woman and her parents, The offender has never paid for his crIme's or a single Baht towards the child's upkeep. The word he put around the village was that she was 'loose' and the baby could have been anyone's. This happens hundreds, if not thousands of times a year in Thailand and is not taken seriously by the authorities who basically, don't care about the social welfare of the masses.

[AYJAYDEE]

My gf says you can't rape your partner/wife/gf.

Consent is already assumed and the woman has no choice but to comply.

Girl says 'no', man just does it anyway, his right.

Try that one in a western country!

It was only recently that it became a criminal offence if a husband raped his wife in Thailand. Until the the middle of 2007, a husband could rape his wife with impunity, it was not a criminal offence.

The law was finally amended in mid 2007 by the then coup appointed parliament to define rape in marriage as a criminal act. This after lobbying for decades by Thai womens groups and NGOs.

Also, don't forget the Thai concept of 'blum' as popularised in many lakorns. Andrew Biggs wrote on this a few years ago and probably best explains it;

In Thai they have a verb called blum - and it's an integral part of many soaps. If you "blum" somebody, then you forcibly have sex with them. I know, I know, that's "rape", but the Thai language has a separate word for "rape" as well. This is "blum", the idea being that you rape a woman in order for her to become your girlfriend, or in order for her company to do business with you.

Now that's bizarre! The message here? Ladies, when a man rapes you, instead of going to the police and having him arrested and locked up, ya gotta either marry him or do business with his company. Worse, in the scene where an actor "blums" an actress, we see the violent part. She screams and tries to wrest herself free, while he slaps and grabs her and throws her onto the bed. That's okay to watch - a good education for any young man wanting to force himself on a girl - but when it comes to the sex, we suddenly cross to an advertisement or it's back to that bloody candle again.

Lakorns really do give a warped view of already bad cultural attitudes. They have a huge influence on youngsters as an ABAC survey found back in 2008;

Children enjoy sexual assault scenes on TVs: survey

A recent survey has revealed shocking findings: many children enjoy watching scenes of rapes on TV and they come to see sexual assaults as something common.

"Some children even say they want to be like leading male characters in TV series so that they can rape a woman," Dr Noppadon Kannika said Tuesday as the head of the Assumption University's research centre, "This is worrying".

Conducted from April 24 to April 27, the survey covered 2,159 respondents in Bangkok and major cities. The respondent age starts from two years old up.

According to the survey, raping scenes are the favourite among 21.1 per cent of children aged between 13 and 19 years old, 10.3 per cent of children aged between two and six years old and 6.4 per cent of those aged from seven to 12 years old.

The Nation

It was not a criminal offence in many western countries until very recently so why are you surprised that thailand was the same?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape

[Lakegeneve]

It was not a criminal offence in many western countries until very recently so why are you surprised that thailand was the same?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape

I didn't express surprise. I was stating fact. Obviously if a specific conduct is not considered unlawful then there is no lawful consequence.

Your statement is patently incorrect. Most western countries changed their laws in relation to marital rape in the 70s or 80s. 30-40 years ago is no considered recent at all - let alone "very recently" - in the context of law reform related to marital rape.

[AYJAYDEE]

It was not a criminal offence in many western countries until very recently so why are you surprised that thailand was the same?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape

I didn't express surprise. I was stating fact. Obviously if a specific conduct is not considered unlawful then there is no lawful consequence.

Your statement is patently incorrect. Most western countries changed their laws in relation to marital rape in the 70s or 80s. 30-40 years ago is no considered recent at all - let alone "very recently" - in the context of law reform related to marital rape.

try 80's and 90's and of course that is recent!

[Thai at Heart]

My gf says you can't rape your partner/wife/gf.

Consent is already assumed and the woman has no choice but to comply.

Girl says 'no', man just does it anyway, his right.

Try that one in a western country!

It was only recently that it became a criminal offence if a husband raped his wife in Thailand. Until the the middle of 2007, a husband could rape his wife with impunity, it was not a criminal offence.

The law was finally amended in mid 2007 by the then coup appointed parliament to define rape in marriage as a criminal act. This after lobbying for decades by Thai womens groups and NGOs.

Also, don't forget the Thai concept of 'blum' as popularised in many lakorns. Andrew Biggs wrote on this a few years ago and probably best explains it;

In Thai they have a verb called blum - and it's an integral part of many soaps. If you "blum" somebody, then you forcibly have sex with them. I know, I know, that's "rape", but the Thai language has a separate word for "rape" as well. This is "blum", the idea being that you rape a woman in order for her to become your girlfriend, or in order for her company to do business with you.

Now that's bizarre! The message here? Ladies, when a man rapes you, instead of going to the police and having him arrested and locked up, ya gotta either marry him or do business with his company. Worse, in the scene where an actor "blums" an actress, we see the violent part. She screams and tries to wrest herself free, while he slaps and grabs her and throws her onto the bed. That's okay to watch - a good education for any young man wanting to force himself on a girl - but when it comes to the sex, we suddenly cross to an advertisement or it's back to that bloody candle again.

Lakorns really do give a warped view of already bad cultural attitudes. They have a huge influence on youngsters as an ABAC survey found back in 2008;

Children enjoy sexual assault scenes on TVs: survey

A recent survey has revealed shocking findings: many children enjoy watching scenes of rapes on TV and they come to see sexual assaults as something common.

"Some children even say they want to be like leading male characters in TV series so that they can rape a woman," Dr Noppadon Kannika said Tuesday as the head of the Assumption University's research centre, "This is worrying".

Conducted from April 24 to April 27, the survey covered 2,159 respondents in Bangkok and major cities. The respondent age starts from two years old up.

According to the survey, raping scenes are the favourite among 21.1 per cent of children aged between 13 and 19 years old, 10.3 per cent of children aged between two and six years old and 6.4 per cent of those aged from seven to 12 years old.

The Nation

I didn't know of this word and its contextual meaning. Thanks

[arthurwait]

A start would be to stop treating your sons and brothers like gods and teach them what no means related to anything.

[Just1Voice]

Have a Thai family close to me. Twins, 8 yrs old, one boy, one girl. I've seen first hand how the boy is spoiled, pampered, allowed to do damn near anything he wants, including throwing temper tantrums if he can't get his way, and the parents allow it. At the same time, the daughter is punished and seriously reprimanded for anything and everything. This is the culture of Thailand 100 years ago, and has no place in today's world, but things are what they are.

Until this mindset and attitude are changed, the Thai culture will remain sexist and xenophobic, with no hope in sight.

Edit for typo

Edited September 21, 2014 by Just1Voice

[ourmanflint]

I'm sorry but all you PC posters who advocate the right for a girl to wear a bikini whenever she likes and take no responsibility for her own safety are talking out of your backsides. Those western principles are not universal <deleted>! Just because it's OK back home doesn't mean it's OK everywhere.

Thailand is a relatively modest country for the most part and visitors here need to remember that.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

My gf says you can't rape your partner/wife/gf.

Consent is already assumed and the woman has no choice but to comply.

Girl says 'no', man just does it anyway, his right.

Try that one in a western country!

It was only recently that it became a criminal offence if a husband raped his wife in Thailand. Until the the middle of 2007, a husband could rape his wife with impunity, it was not a criminal offence.

The law was finally amended in mid 2007 by the then coup appointed parliament to define rape in marriage as a criminal act. This after lobbying for decades by Thai womens groups and NGOs.

New law but not enforced.

She and her parents went to the Police and they said can't do anything as he will say she consented, and anyway if she didn't want to have a sexual relationship with him she shouldn't have gone out with him !!

And it's still the same today, you don't want sex with a guy, never be alone with him.

All the Thai girls know this. I personally don't have a problem with this one. No reason for girls to be alone with a guy they don't want. Is there?

Edited September 21, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[lostinisaan]

"They think our country is beautiful and is safe so they can do whatever they want, they can wear bikinis and walk everywhere," Prayuth told top government officials during a policy address. "[but] can they be safe in bikinis ... unless they are not beautiful?"

Had a sort of a shock, when reading this........

Prayuth was questioning the safety of foreign tourists in the country. He suggested that there was a price to pay should one choose to dress a certain way.

Where I'm from, we've got lakes where everybody's naked, weren't we all born that way? Scary shit. Pay the price to get raped, as there's no sexual education at schools?

If Thai authorities and law enforcement officers can't deal with the more obvious problems clearly within sight, why would anyone think they can crack down on crime and criminals in not-so-visible places?

If some of the cops also believe a girl in a bikini is an easy target, then forget about it. In not so visible places? OMG.

Essentially, he was tossing the blame on the victims, not the fact that crime - specifically rape and other form of sexually assault - is a major problem in the Kingdom.

It's okay to make a bank robbery, as we're all attracted to money, right?-

Who'd be considered beautiful? Sorry, just lost my face.

Edited September 21, 2014 by lostinisaan

[hansnl]

May I land my bombshell of the day, please?

How many of all the reported sexual assault and rape complaints are false?

Anyone knows?

Anybody got any idea how many people have been punished by the law falsely?

Of course, any sexual fact against someone's will and without consent is abhorrent.

But, how many are accused without real grounds?

And pay a price that goes far beyond the punishment laid down by the law.

In most cases the accused is seen to be guilty, and must prove his or her innocence.

And that should not be so.

[Acharn]

For some reason this makes me think back to 1983 or 1984. Prem was still the Prime Minister. There was a bad fire down in Rayong, in what turned out to be a brothel. After the fire was put out, investigators found a bed with a charred corpse in it. The corpse was a woman. She had been chained to the bed. This caused an outcry and public soul-searching for a few days, and finally the Prime Minister was asked what he was going to do about the problem, which everybody knew was actually national in scope. He replied, "I am not concerned about the problems of a prostitute."

[Acharn]

May I land my bombshell of the day, please?

How many of all the reported sexual assault and rape complaints are false?

Anyone knows?

Anybody got any idea how many people have been punished by the law falsely?

Of course, any sexual fact against someone's will and without consent is abhorrent.

But, how many are accused without real grounds?

And pay a price that goes far beyond the punishment laid down by the law.

In most cases the accused is seen to be guilty, and must prove his or her innocence.

And that should not be so.

The usual answer is, "Very few," but this is beginning to get a little more attention. I just read an article on the problem in the U.S. The author presented some plausible data and came to the estimate that probably 6-10% of sexual assault accusations are false. Unfortunately we don't have enough data, but the article seemed well thought out and reasonable to me. Making a false accusation can't be fun. Victims of rape are treated very badly. I'm pretty sure a lot of cases go unreported in Thailand for that reason, plus the puritanical nature (yes, I mean it) of Thai society. I would guess there is even less false reporting in Thailand than America, but that's only a guess.

[davidstipek]

Rape is disgusting wherever it happens but is downplayed in the so called ' conservative ' societies with all sorts of spurious reasons produced such as women bring in on themselves by dressing provocatively.

Let's not forget too that in some countries women alleging rape face being charged with adultery.

I think the point has been tried to be made... But ignored!

"Why immeadiatly the comment about wearing Bikini's..." ???????

Neither one of the Victims was wear such!!!

Not even anything closely resembling such

I think whoever informed The General... Also Assumed they were scantly dressed...!!

So the appartent comments were "Based on this Information"!! I applaude the General in the appologies he quickly made, But I also applaude his not making public were his information came from. This takes a "Stand-up Man", A man of Good Charicture to do this, and not jump to pass the blame on someone else!!

(Just maybe the person who posted "The General has Appologized..." is in some way connected...?)

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The usual answer is, "Very few," but this is beginning to get a little more attention. I just read an article on the problem in the U.S. The author presented some plausible data and came to the estimate that probably 6-10% of sexual assault accusations are false. Unfortunately we don't have enough data, but the article seemed well thought out and reasonable to me. Making a false accusation can't be fun. Victims of rape are treated very badly. I'm pretty sure a lot of cases go unreported in Thailand for that reason, plus the puritanical nature (yes, I mean it) of Thai society. I would guess there is even less false reporting in Thailand than America, but that's only a guess.

And another answer is 90% of rape accusations are false.

If we just consider convictions,

In the USA 8% of rapes reported to police end in a conviction (Justice Dept).

In the UK 6% of rapes reported to police end in a conviction (Home Office).

So false, or just hard to prove, who can tell, not me.

Edited September 21, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Toscano]

There doesn't seem to be any code of behaviour or dress code in Thailand . Young tourists come to Thailand as if it were an international playground like Majorca or Costa del Sol . Clumbsy as the general maybe in his wording , Bikinis are fine on the beach during the day to swim and sunbathe , but in the

evening , people should change into say shorts and shirt . Drinking in bars and walking on remote beaches at night is taking a grave risk . Thailand is

not really a land of smiles at all , there is a lot of violence , especially in city areas , Pattaya and Phuket . Somebody needs to draw up a code of

conduct for holiday makers in Thailand , a list of dos and don'ts .

[AnotherOneAmerican]

There doesn't seem to be any code of behaviour or dress code in Thailand . Young tourists come to Thailand as if it were an international playground like Majorca or Costa del Sol . Clumbsy as the general maybe in his wording , Bikinis are fine on the beach during the day to swim and sunbathe , but in the

evening , people should change into say shorts and shirt . Drinking in bars and walking on remote beaches at night is taking a grave risk . Thailand is

not really a land of smiles at all , there is a lot of violence , especially in city areas , Pattaya and Phuket . Somebody needs to draw up a code of

conduct for holiday makers in Thailand , a list of dos and don'ts .

Who are these people wearing beachwear at night, and where do they do it?

Certainly not the murdered couple, in Koh Tao, they were wearing normal clothes.

(Excluding Thai Coyote and go-go girls)

Edited September 21, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Old Guy]

I agree that many rapes are not reported; my girl friend was raped a couple of years back by the newly-introduced cousin of her best friend who stayed back after a party. She became pregnant and decided through religious reasons to have the (boy) child. She has told her relations she was drunk, which they believe, but she was definitely raped as I made her swear in front of a Buddhist image. Because of the relationship with her friend she did not report it.

However, for me, the story has a happy ending (and now I will get lots of flak from others) -- two months later he was killed speeding on his motor-cycle.

I find it very very difficult to accept the child, and I am just thankful I cannot be worried by the living presence of a rapist. Sorry if my un-Christian attitude upsets anybody.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I agree that many rapes are not reported; my girl friend was raped a couple of years back by the newly-introduced cousin of her best friend who stayed back after a party. She became pregnant and decided through religious reasons to have the (boy) child. She has told her relations she was drunk, which they believe, but she was definitely raped as I made her swear in front of a Buddhist image. Because of the relationship with her friend she did not report it.

However, for me, the story has a happy ending (and now I will get lots of flak from others) -- two months later he was killed speeding on his motor-cycle.

I find it very very difficult to accept the child, and I am just thankful I cannot be worried by the living presence of a rapist. Sorry if my un-Christian attitude upsets anybody.

It's unusual for a Thai girl to be alone with a guy, if she isn't agreeing to sex.

I would go so far as to say unbelievable. Sorry, but you seem slightly gullible.

[Andre0720]

I am sure we don't have rape happening every 15 mins in Australia

A quick google search turned up this:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate

For every 100,000 people, 28.6 of them are raped in Australia.

For every 100,000 people, 6.7 of them are raped in Thailand.

If all rapes in Thailand were 'reported"

I wonder what the statistics would then reveal...

[bangon04]

I am sure we don't have rape happening every 15 mins in Australia

A quick google search turned up this:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate

For every 100,000 people, 28.6 of them are raped in Australia.

For every 100,000 people, 6.7 of them are raped in Thailand.

not really.. only shows that many more rapes are REPORTED in Australia than in Thailand.

just a wild guess, but could have something to do with the efficiency of the police force...

Edited September 21, 2014 by bangon04

[Phillip Sell]

I think most people missed the point in what I was trying to say. If someone makes a derogatory statement to me, and I can't understand it.....What do I care??? I understand"nit Noi" Thai and look at facial features and body language from people. Also, I've becom epretty good at charades......using that method instead of mangling the Thai language.

One thing that I've learned is that if you live your life selfishly ,and on your own terms, you will always be disappointed and pessimistic. Instead of thinking about how you've been inconvinced, how about stepping away from the girls and the bars and trying to help the Thai people. We all have skills that could help........

[Jimbolai]

"If wearing a bikini on the beach is not appropriate, perhaps under-dressed young women hanging offpoles in Pattaya and Bangkok's Soi Cowboy and Soi Patpong should be criticised, along with the owners of the bars they work in, as well."

Big difference being in a go go bar out of sight or on a beach in public. Some western girls seem to think that everything is OK in Thailand. Wearing a g-string hiding nothing and hanging out in bars like that is frowned upon in this conservative culture.

But hey, who is complaining, not I.

I also hope that the scum will be caught soon and locked up for good. My heartfelt condolences to the families.

[Phillip Sell]

I think that the Prime Minister is a good man . Apologies are always hard for leaders to make...especially dealing with minor gaffes. You would never see Obama ,Merkel or Cameron apologizie publicly.

[ggt]

The title of this article should have been: Bashing Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha over his bikini remarks! Is this the best you can do to try to discredit the man...must mean he is doing a pretty fair job by most people's standards...

[Phillip Sell]

The more I read Thai Forum, the more tired I become of foreigners that feel that they are entitled to special treatment in Thailand. From how to get around the visa issues, to ED and triple-entry scammers..........No wonder they treat Farangs with such disdain.

You want a good life??? Keep your promises whenever possible, be honest with others and yourself.....and most important "Do the right thing". No matter what country that you choose to live in, you will always be okay.