longstebe Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I look after number one. Couldn't care less about anyone else's situation. thats nice of you. another argument against cloning... Don't be a divvy, you know quite well what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epicstuff Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) people working on Tourist visas etc. Since I am working legally here, including paying taxes, and paying a lot of money for that, I do mind others working on tourist visa and not having those expenses. That is really unfair competition. agree with stevenl also, when we consider visa types, I'd take some risk (very little in fact) and say that most scammers, thieves, fraudsters, etc. who stay in Thailand long term are often also abusing their visa terms. I have friends staying on ED visas, so all are not bad, but there is a mass of "others"... let's face it, they typically are dropouts in their home countries and have little cash in Thailand, and when whatever little they have runs out, many are ready to do ANYTHING in get their hands on money... Not really "quality expats". Not sure what peoples hang up is about "quality Expats' do they have some exclusivity rights that other dont have? Have a little compassion for those less off than yourself. or maybe we should find a little piece of land somewhere preferably in the middle east and put all the non quality people in it, so they can have their own country without bothering us quality people Actually this rings a bell, didnt we do that in Australia, now they are better off than the rest of us... bastards.... I actually think many of the worst criminal kinds here are able to get themselves the proper visa's because they have the money and connections. I also know that many companies want expats working but are to tight to provide the proper visas . Many of the real undesirables, the scummy low life crim's as you might put it, would be taken out if the police force was more functional and less corrupt nothing to do with visas at all ... Edited September 27, 2014 by epicstuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehw200 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I am not about to waste my time turning anyone in,,,not my business my only problem with people cheating Thai law re visa's is that he Government is forced to make crackdowns which inconvenience all of us a 6 month multiple entry visa in your home country is not that difficult if some people get caught in the net and are expelled and blacklisted for going around the Thai law,,,oh well,,,you do the crime,,,do the time OR get a proper and legal visa and you have no problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 There is a time when it is ok to grass, ie if you came across some people planning to blow up a plane, if you saw someone commiting rape or an innocent person getting murdered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splodger Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Go to an expats club meeting,full of very special self important people who would rat their own family up if they were not 1000% legal,tourist police,retired traffic wardens,ex Hitler youth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godden Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Far more important things happening, live and let live. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffy Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 The illegals make it harder for the legal , if you don't get that leave . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangebrew Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 In a Nut shell It causes problems for us her legally here with correct paperwork. Un -needed stop's to check status. and you ruin our good image as being upstanding farangs here for the tat and cold beer. next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epicstuff Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) people working on Tourist visas etc.Since I am working legally here, including paying taxes, and paying a lot of money for that, I do mind others working on tourist visa and not having those expenses. That is really unfair competition. I've been working for the past year on a tourist visa and paying taxes and let's be real about it tax ain't a huge percent of your salary in Thailand Are you sure? Maybe in a proper job tax isnt such a big issue, but what about the tax on a small business owner? Having to pay vast amount just to maintain the owners work permits and business visa that are inextricably linked. So many I know have failing businesses here because of a multitude of reasons that have been out of their control ( there is no protection or come back for these people when something happens), It could be a ex wife sucked the business dry, an in considerate landlord inflating rents or other Thai's erecting some structure adversely affecting business, some breach in a legal contact that can't be enforced by the Thai courts as it would be too costly to bring it to court; what ever the reasons, but they are stuck paying taxes on a salary that they are not really taking , National security for staff that they are not currently employing . accountant s charges etc etc. they are actually bucking the system by obtaining a visa illegally are these bad people that need expelling from Thailand? Edited September 27, 2014 by epicstuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usasia8888 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 that is such a loser point of who will never makes things better for the silent majority. obviously u r a passive person With a friend like you......who needs enemies ? A guy might be living and working in Thailand illegally, but chances are he's supporting (or supporting in part) a Thai family. Some criminals (eg, boiler room bosses) support a vast network of parasites and hangers on. Depriving Thais of this support is a recipe for trouble. It's best to turn a blind eye and keep your mouth shut. If you can't accept the presence of foreign criminals in Thailand, go somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingtongtourist Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Nothing to do with illegality and everything to do with some people desperate to feel special/privileged/elitist in SOME way at least after a life of crushing mediocrity. For them, something as mundane and ordinary as having a visa based on retirement, marriage or work is a towering achievement that serves to elevate them to rock star status among the trouts at the local beer bar. Woe betide you if you're legal and under 45 Seriously, they deserve our pity, not our scorn yes they have a word to call them in australia. W****rs the ones who like to cause trouble for others for no gain and cause hate and grief. western countries love a-holes like this and also offer rewards to dob in someone. these ones in thailand like to scorn thais 1st and then also do this to their own kind.. what can you call them? Ive known people who do this an many times they recieve a correction of bad shit happrn to them much worse than they cause. the people they winge about working are probably paid 500 baht per hour while these high and mighty so called legal w****rs will no doubt skite how they are on upwards of 50k a month. give em a break why dont you and mind ur own beewax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW72 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 people working on Tourist visas etc. Since I am working legally here, including paying taxes, and paying a lot of money for that, I do mind others working on tourist visa and not having those expenses. That is really unfair competition. Fair enough ,but are you a grass? I get where stevenl is coming from. It is unfair competition. The crackdown on people abusing the system also seems to be having a knock on effect to those who want to visit Thailand regularly and are not working illegally. There has been increased scrutiny by immigration with some people being refused entry even though they work elsewhere but only visit Thailand during there time off from work. The actions of those who abuse the system has a detrimental effect on those who follow the rules. "are you a grass?" Excuse me if I cause offence but that seems like an immature thing to say. It reminds me of my school days. I think that if you see something that you believe to be morally wrong you should do something about it. The people working illegally in Thailand are not contributing to the country. They are not paying taxes, they are keeping jobs from people who do need them and they are creating a false economy i.e. keeping salaries lower than they should be as the employer and employee is not paying for tax or visas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW72 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 No, you've misunderstood. My point is that it's best not to worry about (or get involved with) people working illegally in Thailand. Grassing on them can be especially dangerous if they're involved with criminal activities, such as boiler rooms. I read recently that one boiler room boss (a westerner) is protected by a former Prime Minister. Organized crime can generate serious cash. IMO, it's best to keep your mouth shut and accept the status quo. Understanding Thai culture and appreciating the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law helps a lot. "For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing." Simon Wiesenthal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttthailand Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I was sitting by the pool in our condo building the other week when these three guys came. Only one really lived there and the other two were his friends. We have rules about eating, drinking alcohol and smoking around the pool. These guys started playing music were drinking beer and eating and also sitting in the pool drinking out of a ceramic cup. If dropped the fine splinters from the ceramic would have gone everywhere and perhaps cut someone's foot. A friend of mine and I just looked at each other and I said " you know you are breaking the rules" . The smart as$ sitting in the pool drinking replies " who are you the enforcer" . Hahaha.... I guess I am am. They stopped the music and put the beers away and later left with the non residents smarting off with " enjoy YOUR pool". Live and let live but as long as you are not bothering anyone. These guys were breaking all the rules and didn't care about others. We are not in grade school anymore ... Following the rules or move on !!! Rules are made to be followed not broken. If you don't bother anyone I don't really care what you do but they were bothering me and risking the closure of the pool if they dropped that cup. Basically, if someone is working here illegally I don't care unless they are screwing with me or my business. If they are I have no problem reporting them or taking my own action. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfaroukh Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Well sick people are everywhere. I would report a person if he deals with drugs or other kind of illegal activities that harm another person or a country in a big way, but not if the person has some kind of small jobs and work on tourist visa trying to survive few more months in the land of smile. As I seen many people think it is not fare that they pay huge tax, well if you are paying huge tax it also means you really have a very good job. It is not Europe, Australia, Canada or other countries that you feel jealous that why I pay tax and others get social benefit not working or working black. Neither of you are getting any benefits. So relax and let the immigration do their jobs and stop people on these kind of visa's on their own. At least let show them that we are not standing against each other. And yes if you really feel they are real criminal carry on and report them. By the way would you report a police getting money from people living in Thailand on work visa, have a decent business, bar, restaurant etc and all the time they have to pay monthly to some police just to let them be alone and do their business? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cacruden Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) Just entered the formula into the spreadsheet to figure out what the "real" tax rate is approximately. I figure that it works out to about 24% tax if you make 4million/annum 22% tax if you make 3million/annum 18% tax if you make 2million/annum 11.5% tax if you make 1million/annum 5.5% tax if you make 500k/annum Not actually that bad overall. I figure your excel spreadsheet is wrong and then add all your "stealth taxes" VAT fuel levies etc... tax tables.JPG http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html Spreadsheet more representative than what you just posted. That table is used to calculate your tax but it is not the actual percentage you pay. If you make 4,000,000 baht you pay the sum of: = 150k at 0% + 150k at 5% + 200k at 10% + 250k at 15% + 250k at 20% + 1000k at 25% + 2000k at 30% which works out to a real taxation (blended rate) of 24% (not including standard deductions/allowances). Most countries have VAT/GST + income tax + + just the same. In Ontario Canada I think the GST is around 13% (federal + provincial), then you have federal and provincial income tax. This is actually quite a bit better than most European countries. If you're in low tax US states though you might have lower taxes overall. Tax tables to say what you are paying can be quite deceptive when it comes to saying what your actual tax rate is. You might have just edged into a higher tax bracket but stating the highest tax bracket percentage is meaningless you could be paying that on as little as $1 worth of income. Edited September 27, 2014 by cacruden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW72 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Well sick people are everywhere. I would report a person if he deals with drugs or other kind of illegal activities that harm another person or a country in a big way, but not if the person has some kind of small jobs and work on tourist visa trying to survive few more months in the land of smile. As I seen many people think it is not fare that they pay huge tax, well if you are paying huge tax it also means you really have a very good job. It is not Europe, Australia, Canada or other countries that you feel jealous that why I pay tax and others get social benefit not working or working black. Neither of you are getting any benefits. So relax and let the immigration do their jobs and stop people on these kind of visa's on their own. At least let show them that we are not standing against each other. And yes if you really feel they are real criminal carry on and report them. By the way would you report a police getting money from people living in Thailand on work visa, have a decent business, bar, restaurant etc and all the time they have to pay monthly to some police just to let them be alone and do their business? So which laws do you need to break to become a "real" criminal? I think it is about your own moral code. There are laws I don't agree with and if I see someone breaking that law then I would not report them but if my moral code told me what someone was doing is wrong then I would act. Everyone has their own moral compass and we all have different opinions on what is right and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cacruden Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) Well sick people are everywhere. I would report a person if he deals with drugs or other kind of illegal activities that harm another person or a country in a big way, but not if the person has some kind of small jobs and work on tourist visa trying to survive few more months in the land of smile. As I seen many people think it is not fare that they pay huge tax, well if you are paying huge tax it also means you really have a very good job. It is not Europe, Australia, Canada or other countries that you feel jealous that why I pay tax and others get social benefit not working or working black. Neither of you are getting any benefits. So relax and let the immigration do their jobs and stop people on these kind of visa's on their own. At least let show them that we are not standing against each other. And yes if you really feel they are real criminal carry on and report them. By the way would you report a police getting money from people living in Thailand on work visa, have a decent business, bar, restaurant etc and all the time they have to pay monthly to some police just to let them be alone and do their business? So which laws do you need to break to become a "real" criminal? I think it is about your own moral code. There are laws I don't agree with and if I see someone breaking that law then I would not report them but if my moral code told me what someone was doing is wrong then I would act. Everyone has their own moral compass and we all have different opinions on what is right and wrong. From personal (Canadian) experience - very few people will obey the letter and the spirit of every law that exists. People generally do that only when they are more afraid of the punishment than the perceived gain. Of all the "law abiding" people that I know, if they travel abroad and come back into the country -- everyone I ever asked has said that they declare the real purchase price of everything they bought and brought back into the country. How many people download tv shows online (torrent). Usually people class certain laws into groups of laws. Some most people would never violate; others people will get away with what they can (tax evasion; smuggling; pirating) Edited September 27, 2014 by cacruden 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Jobsworths without the jobs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonytigerbkk Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Oh lord, Mr. Digital Chav himself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborgx Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 people working on Tourist visas etc. Since I am working legally here, including paying taxes, and paying a lot of money for that, I do mind others working on tourist visa and not having those expenses. That is really unfair competition. And also when there is wide-spread abuse of the existing system and circumvention of the rules, the understandable reaction of Immigrations is to make the rules tougher for everyone. So the rule-breakers (many of whom boasted on Thai Visa how they ignored the rules for years) don't just cause problems for themselves. They make things more difficult for those us who have been abiding by the rules. Well said, got it in a nutshell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splodger Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 In some respects I blame the authorities for enabling this abuse If you don't like it here, just go. Seriously, pack your gear and bugger off. No one will even notice you've gone. Hello Dave, new name same attitude ☺ I think this is the second or third time you've called me Dave. Why do you do that? If it's of any interest, my name is BRIAN. So who are you -- Soutpeel's little errand boy? OK Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) Oh lord, Mr. Digital Chav himself. I was wondering what happened to all the members of the "Angry Little Boys Club" (ALBC) they were all on here last night gobbing off and for some reason all disappeared maybe they moved their Inaugural circle jerk meeting to another location and forgot to tell the esteemed Mr Digital Pikey ? Edit See the Co-chairperson of the ALBC has just reappeared... Edited September 27, 2014 by Soutpeel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW72 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Oh lord, Mr. Digital Chav himself. I was wondering what happened to all the members of the "Angry Little Boys Club" (ALBC) they were all on here last night gobbing off and for some reason all disappeared maybe they moved their Inaugural circle jerk meeting to another location and forgot to tell the esteemed Mr Digital Pikey ? Edit See the Co-chairperson of the ALBC has just reappeared... "Circle Jerk" A term I have not heard in a long time. That brings back happy memories. Not, I hasten to add, because of the act of circle jerking but because of the band the Circle Jerks. I used to love them in the late 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Revealing persons identities on a forum is well out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 A post threatening a member, replies to it other abusive posts have been removed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango66 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 You think we are stupid as we take care for correct visas, and to be a correct guest in this country; Any who cheat the visa system, cheats also all people living with correct documents in this country; I think its correct way of a good citicen to announce such wrongdoers; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango66 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 people working on Tourist visas etc. Since I am working legally here, including paying taxes, and paying a lot of money for that, I do mind others working on tourist visa and not having those expenses. That is really unfair competition. I've been working for the past year on a tourist visa and paying taxes and let's be real about it tax ain't a huge percent of your salary in Thailand On a tourist visa you didn't do a correct - can't do a tax declaration of work income !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango66 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I don't like the fact that illegal aliens are beseiging my home country - although there's more going on there than the headlines/media tells.....and it's not good....The laws are there for a reason - to protect Thailand....why should we claim "ownership" over our host country just because we want to? Disobeying the law along the way...... That was a party political broadcast by the UKIP representative for Nakhon Nowhere who happens to be an immigrant himself. Those "laws" haven't protected Thailand though, have they? There are foreigners running scams and engaging in illegal activities with the assistance and collusion of people at or near the top of the very power structures that are charged with enforcing those laws. Visa runners were never, EVER breaking the law. They were taking advantage of the system with the full cooperation of the Thai Immigration department. they do a visa run on a tourist excemt stamp, but they are working; a) working illegal braking visa rules c) not paying tax think they brake the law 3 times, not only 1 times; 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango66 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 They are just bitter, living mentally in-between expat bubble world, stuck between two different cultures. Many of them have burned bridges with their families and friends back at home country. They have that literal law&order weird attitude which is not very compatible with the Thai culture. It is very ironic because they do not know a thing how Thais themselves use laws. It crime matters it almost always involves a large family negotiating with either the police or with the other family and money exchanging hands. Many times the police is not even involved and families settle things by themselves. You either do not live here or you have not lived here for long enough to know how Thais work with the law. You should learn at least the basics of your subject matter befrore proffessing to be an expert. you are not a THAI !! If you brake a law, you are a criminal, no matter Thai or farang !! Most Thai people are correct people, but you seems to like compare with the bad ones, as it fits in your profile; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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