Koh Tao murder probe 85% complete: Panya

[lildragon]

The Thai media trying to pin it on anyone but the locals doesn't really surprise me tho tbh.

[jollyhangmon]

"The district chief also vowed that no murders would take place during high season in December, when visitors flock to Koh Tao, Koh Samui and Koh Pha-ngan"...

We have spoken to the people involved in this murder and they guarantee they won't kill anyone else during high season. This was a strict condition of accepting the bribes.

... yes, this one is guaranteed then, until further notice;

About all the other scams and ripp-offs, well now, slow down a bit, now you reaching for the skies - y'all should be satisfied with not necessarily beeing raped & slaughtered while sitting at a beach & sticking your toes into the water ...

[transam]

1. "The police investigation into the murder of two British backpackers on Koh Tao, off the coast of Surat Thani, is 85 per cent complete, a police commander said yesterday"

2. "The district chief also vowed that no murders would take place during high season in December, when visitors flock to Koh Tao, Koh Samui and Koh Pha-ngan for Full Moon Parties and the New Year countdown, thanks to heightened security and the suppression of vice"

I am asking for help here, or rather understanding. Could someone please explain to me, preferably in layman terms, why people in authority in this country are determined to put themselves in positions of no-return by making ridiculous statements like the examples above?

1. Without knowing the final result, and without the inclusion of any more twists, how can anyone predict a percentage on a problem?

2. I have no words to describe this. Even with everyone having personal protection, sh!t happens.

Granted, I have only been living in this country for the last 17 years, and self-admittedly am still coming to terms in certain areas of what is normal here, I would appreciate muchly if someone could explain these thought processes.

Thanks in Advance..............................

Because talking BS is an accepted way of doing stuff in LOS. Plus folk do not think before opening their mouth, bit like LOS driving, do something daft then try and sort the mistake, and that is nationwide.

[Runamile]

Sorry guys.

I've been a bit slow on the uptake.

Truth is that the investigation is 85% complete because there's still 15% of the tea money to be paid.

[sssamui]

The funny/sad thing about Sean : after-only after his run and statement about the real murder etc. - only then they revealed the " blood on face story'...

Strange, isn't it???

[heyexile]

"Koh Tao murder probe 85% complete: Panya" urgently update it's now 86%

Johnathan Head (BBC SE Asia) tweeted yesterday quoting Panya saying RTP REGION 8 HAVE NO FUNDING TO COMPLETE DNA TESTING.

He also tweeted quoting Panya that 179 DNA samples have been sent to Bangkok (yes, BKK) plus a further 33 still to be sent. Each test costs B 5,000.

179+33=212 85% of 212 is near enough 179. Perhaps that is what Panya or whoever are basing their not too bright statements on.

Total cost for 212 tests at 5,000 ea about Bt 1m. Plenty of funding available for Region 8 to move sunbeds available. Plenty of funding for EC urgent study trips to Scotland. Where does their funding come from? No prizes for guessing who is currently Supreme Commander of the Police.

[lucaswallachia]

After reading various news articles and comments I have come to reconize that many of the foreigners here on TV that make comments are doing so without seeing another side of the news reports and comments that are written in Thai. I'm not really sure why that is but the Thai folks seem to know about things days before the foreigner. Example: I have read many times about the CCTV picture that captured the Thai running and only wearing shorts. One story I read said that this Thai man was wearing David's (the victim's) shorts. And that this Thai person must have mistakenly put on the victim's shorts and left his shorts there on the beach. Then written in Thai, the news said that this Thai guy's name in Mon, and the reason that he is running is because since the murders occurred around his area he was made aware of it by the police. He apparently quickly hurried to put only his shorts on and ran to the crime scene to see what happened.

Another example: Sean, the guy that quickly attempted to get off the island and fly back to his country because he felt threatened.

His story seemed very solid, even taking photos. Most foreigners that read about Sean believed him and then began focusing on the two Thai guys (Mon and the other guy which is a policeman).

Written and reported in Thai provided so much more and different information about Sean. The story about the two Thai men were much different than what Sean had portrayed. The Thai news suggests that they have witnesses that not only saw Sean with Blood all over him the night of the murder but they actually helps him clean-up himself. When questioned by locals that helped Sean, he said that he had been in a motorbike accident. Another story suggested that he told someone that he was in a fight with someone.

There has been a lot of focus on Sean. Based on what has been reported in Thai, there are many suggesting that Sean was involved in this gruesome murder.

There is much more that was written in Thai. My only point is that if many of the TV members were aware of many of the stories that have been written in Thai, I think that many of the comments, opinions and anger would be directly somewhat differently.

The only thing that I can suggest is that most should try to refrain from making comments where they are so sure of what took place. There has been so much about the headsman and these Thai guys. So many have gone way out there on a limb stating that they are so corrupt and that they are the guilty ones.

I think very soon within the next couple days or so, more information that was written in Thai will start to be filtered in a way that will be better written and understood by the TV community.

For those that believe that the two or three Thai guys working at AC's bar/club carried out the murder, and are totally guilty, and that it will all be covered up by the authorities, will have a hard pill to swallow when later they catch-up on the news that most all Thai's know about days in advance. Just understand that when you hear what evidence they have, know that it was already reported in Thai before you becomes aware of it.

Also don't be surprised if the focus of attention turns to Sean. There is still much to be said because many fingers point to him.

Well we know Sean said he was supposed to meet up with David that night but fell asleep so if he had blood on him we need to know what time that was because if it was in the early hours then obviously that doesnt match up with him saying he was sleeping at the time.

[ChiangraiTony]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The killers will be found soon and put into custody. We are 10% away from being 100% done with the investigation. If all society works together we will definitely solve this crime. We are 90% done by solving this crime, thankfully. There are as of today no suspects and most evidence has been corrupted. We have taken the proper steps to ensure that a killer will be arrested by the end of the month we believe. We can now be peaceful with this revelation. Remain vigiliant. The public is the only hope for solving this crime which is solved soon.

I just realized that the RTP are the guiys who write American fortune cookies.

"The public is the only hope for solving this crime which is solved soon."

YES...because the police alone gives no hope! As an American saying goes, "Close only counts in horseshoes and grenades." - Frank Robinson.

From what I understand that was written in Thai, David (victim), his Mum will not pursue the case. She doesn't want to prolong the hurt she and her family have to deal with. She said that she knows David went to Thailand with his gay friend (indicating that David was gay). She doesn't want to rehash what has happened.

[lucaswallachia]

The funny/sad thing about Sean : after-only after his run and statement about the real murder etc. - only then they revealed the " blood on face story'...

Strange, isn't it???

Yeh but look at his guitar, it does have blood all over it so he obviously did have an accident or something at some point:

[sssamui]

And I follow the post from the "ac bar gang"... First they said ; the Burma's , then the friend/roommate of the victim David! Harsh comment's, really harsh...and then finally, after Sean run away they accused him.... The good side on FB people post and think nobody remember!. I give you a clue; the day when Sean run away a guy make so angry comments , like " we should killed him before"...etc. Somebody need a link to my observation?...

[Alwyn]

I'm sorry but when I read these police chiefs' statements all I read is "blah blah blah"..... Now their efforts mean nobody will be murdered in December.. "blah bla blah" Probably because nobody will be there if they have any sense.

[lucaswallachia]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The killers will be found soon and put into custody. We are 10% away from being 100% done with the investigation. If all society works together we will definitely solve this crime. We are 90% done by solving this crime, thankfully. There are as of today no suspects and most evidence has been corrupted. We have taken the proper steps to ensure that a killer will be arrested by the end of the month we believe. We can now be peaceful with this revelation. Remain vigiliant. The public is the only hope for solving this crime which is solved soon.

I just realized that the RTP are the guiys who write American fortune cookies.

"The public is the only hope for solving this crime which is solved soon."

YES...because the police alone gives no hope! As an American saying goes, "Close only counts in horseshoes and grenades." - Frank Robinson.

From what I understand that was written in Thai, David (victim), his Mum will not pursue the case. She doesn't want to prolong the hurt she and her family have to deal with. She said that she knows David went to Thailand with his gay friend (indicating that David was gay). She doesn't want to rehash what has happened.

What? This is David with his gf:

[shawndoc]

I fully believe the police know and have known who was involved since almost the beginning.

[Tazwa]

After reading various news articles and comments I have come to reconize that many of the foreigners here on TV that make comments are doing so without seeing another side of the news reports and comments that are written in Thai. I'm not really sure why that is but the Thai folks seem to know about things days before the foreigner. Example: I have read many times about the CCTV picture that captured the Thai running and only wearing shorts. One story I read said that this Thai man was wearing David's (the victim's) shorts. And that this Thai person must have mistakenly put on the victim's shorts and left his shorts there on the beach. Then written in Thai, the news said that this Thai guy's name in Mon, and the reason that he is running is because since the murders occurred around his area he was made aware of it by the police. He apparently quickly hurried to put only his shorts on and ran to the crime scene to see what happened.

Another example: Sean, the guy that quickly attempted to get off the island and fly back to his country because he felt threatened.

His story seemed very solid, even taking photos. Most foreigners that read about Sean believed him and then began focusing on the two Thai guys (Mon and the other guy which is a policeman).

Written and reported in Thai provided so much more and different information about Sean. The story about the two Thai men were much different than what Sean had portrayed. The Thai news suggests that they have witnesses that not only saw Sean with Blood all over him the night of the murder but they actually helps him clean-up himself. When questioned by locals that helped Sean, he said that he had been in a motorbike accident. Another story suggested that he told someone that he was in a fight with someone.

There has been a lot of focus on Sean. Based on what has been reported in Thai, there are many suggesting that Sean was involved in this gruesome murder.

There is much more that was written in Thai. My only point is that if many of the TV members were aware of many of the stories that have been written in Thai, I think that many of the comments, opinions and anger would be directly somewhat differently.

The only thing that I can suggest is that most should try to refrain from making comments where they are so sure of what took place. There has been so much about the headsman and these Thai guys. So many have gone way out there on a limb stating that they are so corrupt and that they are the guilty ones.

I think very soon within the next couple days or so, more information that was written in Thai will start to be filtered in a way that will be better written and understood by the TV community.

For those that believe that the two or three Thai guys working at AC's bar/club carried out the murder, and are totally guilty, and that it will all be covered up by the authorities, will have a hard pill to swallow when later they catch-up on the news that most all Thai's know about days in advance. Just understand that when you hear what evidence they have, know that it was already reported in Thai before you becomes aware of it.

Also don't be surprised if the focus of attention turns to Sean. There is still much to be said because many fingers point to him.

Nothing new in what you've reported from the Thai news sources. We heard it long ago.

Yes, there are a lot of Thai fingers pointing at Sean because they probably prefer a farang was involved. The DNA points at an Asian/s being involved.

A gruesome murder like this requires a motive that I don't believe Sean had. He spoke highly of David in his interview.

As for Sean being covered in blood and requiring assistance to have it cleaned off- if you murdered someone, would you go and ask someone to clean the blood off your body? I believe this was fabricated/trumped up by the people involved.

[Triplebank999]

After reading various news articles and comments I have come to reconize that many of the foreigners here on TV that make comments are doing so without seeing another side of the news reports and comments that are written in Thai. I'm not really sure why that is but the Thai folks seem to know about things days before the foreigner. Example: I have read many times about the CCTV picture that captured the Thai running and only wearing shorts. One story I read said that this Thai man was wearing David's (the victim's) shorts. And that this Thai person must have mistakenly put on the victim's shorts and left his shorts there on the beach. Then written in Thai, the news said that this Thai guy's name in Mon, and the reason that he is running is because since the murders occurred around his area he was made aware of it by the police. He apparently quickly hurried to put only his shorts on and ran to the crime scene to see what happened.

Another example: Sean, the guy that quickly attempted to get off the island and fly back to his country because he felt threatened.

His story seemed very solid, even taking photos. Most foreigners that read about Sean believed him and then began focusing on the two Thai guys (Mon and the other guy which is a policeman).

Written and reported in Thai provided so much more and different information about Sean. The story about the two Thai men were much different than what Sean had portrayed. The Thai news suggests that they have witnesses that not only saw Sean with Blood all over him the night of the murder but they actually helps him clean-up himself. When questioned by locals that helped Sean, he said that he had been in a motorbike accident. Another story suggested that he told someone that he was in a fight with someone.

There has been a lot of focus on Sean. Based on what has been reported in Thai, there are many suggesting that Sean was involved in this gruesome murder.

There is much more that was written in Thai. My only point is that if many of the TV members were aware of many of the stories that have been written in Thai, I think that many of the comments, opinions and anger would be directly somewhat differently.

The only thing that I can suggest is that most should try to refrain from making comments where they are so sure of what took place. There has been so much about the headsman and these Thai guys. So many have gone way out there on a limb stating that they are so corrupt and that they are the guilty ones.

I think very soon within the next couple days or so, more information that was written in Thai will start to be filtered in a way that will be better written and understood by the TV community.

For those that believe that the two or three Thai guys working at AC's bar/club carried out the murder, and are totally guilty, and that it will all be covered up by the authorities, will have a hard pill to swallow when later they catch-up on the news that most all Thai's know about days in advance. Just understand that when you hear what evidence they have, know that it was already reported in Thai before you becomes aware of it.

Also don't be surprised if the focus of attention turns to Sean. There is still much to be said because many fingers point to him.

You speak Thai? and, you read Thai?

tell us then

why did they report in English that Mon was running away FROM the crime scene in the shorts of the dead tourist then???

and, why was Mon, if that is who it is, walking back and forth, pacing the crime scene area?

was it perhaps because the rape and murder was taking place, and he was making sure no one could hear the screams?

Wow, talk about not getting the point!

[MaxYakov]

Does mean they've arrested and charged 85% of the accused. Which 85% I wonder ...

[jakhoeblal]

Today it's 86% already!

Edited September 27, 2014 by jakhoeblal

[Rimbuman]

One thing concerns me about this case.

How come the Scottish guy Sean and the other friends of the deceased, who have already left the island, either not come out and made public announcements about what happened with the alleged confrontations in the bar. Why have none of the investigative journalists who were originally involved on the island, not sought these people out to get their side of the story?

Its as though they have been warned off by the British Embassy not to stick the fly in the ointment11

Surely somebody who was with the deceased before their untimely deaths, would have valuable info?

Why no newspaper interviews? Why has it all gone quiet from these journalists who were there and for sure know what the majority of people on this board suspect to be true.

Yet day after day more ridiculous and sublime statements are coming from the Police which are completely unchallenged.

Exactly the kind of questions that are going around with many of us, it's only two weeks since the murders now, lets wait and see.

[sssamui]

Here we go: ChiangraiTony, on 27 Sept 2014 - 12:29, said: " From what I understand that was written in Thai, David (victim), his Mum will not pursue the case. She doesn't want to prolong the hurt she and her family have to deal with. She said that she knows David went to Thailand with his gay friend "

Never heard about this statement, can you provide some British newspaper link and not the wisch=waschi Thai rumor press ( paid Thai rumor press). Guess from where the " Gay" comments come from? Who spread this rumors.?...

[Triplebank999]

The funny/sad thing about Sean : after-only after his run and statement about the real murder etc. - only then they revealed the " blood on face story'...

Strange, isn't it???

Yeh but look at his guitar, it does have blood all over it so he obviously did have an accident or something at some point:

The only thing that is obvious from that photo is that something that looks as though it may be blood is, or has been put, on his guitar. If he really had had an accident before the murders were known about and then went to get cleaned up why would he not have cleaned his blood from his beloved guitar?

[CantSpell]

I bet the remaining 15% is the identity of the killer...still unknown.

Or, not unknown... "Classified"

[inutil]

Well lets get rid of one of the claims immediately as a fabrication:

And that this Thai person must have mistakenly put on the victim's shorts and left his shorts there on the beach. Then written in Thai, the news said that this Thai guy's name in Mon, and the reason that he is running is because since the murders occurred around his area he was made aware of it by the police. He apparently quickly hurried to put only his shorts on and ran to the crime scene to see what happened

Sorry, i shouldnt have stated times. Here, let yourself be the judge:

What time was the man captured running "to the scene of the crime"?

What time was the crime scene discovered?

Memory suggests that the CCTV footage was at night. (3.44am)

The discovery was during the early hours of the day (6,30am apparently)

Police said Miss Witheridge and Mr Miller could be seen on CCTV leaving a bar together at around 1am before walking onto the beach.

Their bodies were discovered just a few yards apart at around 6.30am yesterday and some of their clothing was found nearby.

Something is clearly off then in that 'explanation'

Edited September 27, 2014 by inutil

[Thakkar]

"Thaweesak Inphrome vowed that no murders would take place during high season in December"

Is this guy moon-shining as a fortune teller?

Not sure...could be moonlighting. though...

You're moon-shining if you're drunk on home-made brew while moonlighting. Look it up.

T

[DennisF]

After reading various news articles and comments I have come to reconize that many of the foreigners here on TV that make comments are doing so without seeing another side of the news reports and comments that are written in Thai. I'm not really sure why that is but the Thai folks seem to know about things days before the foreigner. Example: I have read many times about the CCTV picture that captured the Thai running and only wearing shorts. One story I read said that this Thai man was wearing David's (the victim's) shorts. And that this Thai person must have mistakenly put on the victim's shorts and left his shorts there on the beach. Then written in Thai, the news said that this Thai guy's name in Mon, and the reason that he is running is because since the murders occurred around his area he was made aware of it by the police. He apparently quickly hurried to put only his shorts on and ran to the crime scene to see what happened.

Another example: Sean, the guy that quickly attempted to get off the island and fly back to his country because he felt threatened.

His story seemed very solid, even taking photos. Most foreigners that read about Sean believed him and then began focusing on the two Thai guys (Mon and the other guy which is a policeman).

Written and reported in Thai provided so much more and different information about Sean. The story about the two Thai men were much different than what Sean had portrayed. The Thai news suggests that they have witnesses that not only saw Sean with Blood all over him the night of the murder but they actually helps him clean-up himself. When questioned by locals that helped Sean, he said that he had been in a motorbike accident. Another story suggested that he told someone that he was in a fight with someone.

There has been a lot of focus on Sean. Based on what has been reported in Thai, there are many suggesting that Sean was involved in this gruesome murder.

There is much more that was written in Thai. My only point is that if many of the TV members were aware of many of the stories that have been written in Thai, I think that many of the comments, opinions and anger would be directly somewhat differently.

The only thing that I can suggest is that most should try to refrain from making comments where they are so sure of what took place. There has been so much about the headsman and these Thai guys. So many have gone way out there on a limb stating that they are so corrupt and that they are the guilty ones.

I think very soon within the next couple days or so, more information that was written in Thai will start to be filtered in a way that will be better written and understood by the TV community.

For those that believe that the two or three Thai guys working at AC's bar/club carried out the murder, and are totally guilty, and that it will all be covered up by the authorities, will have a hard pill to swallow when later they catch-up on the news that most all Thai's know about days in advance. Just understand that when you hear what evidence they have, know that it was already reported in Thai before you becomes aware of it.

Also don't be surprised if the focus of attention turns to Sean. There is still much to be said because many fingers point to him.

And naturally, as we live in a society of free speech and free media reporting there will be absolutely no bias in favour of the Thais in support of the wonderful BiB will there?

I too have seen the Thai version and other than conjecture amplified and hearsay stated as fact, there is no difference.

The only thing I can agree with is that Sean knows more.. I believe he is too scared to say or is making statements outside the land of hubs.

[Bung]

I think the police hope that this story is 85% forgotten already......

[SteveFong]

Twitter can keep the pressure on,

does the Thai government use Twitter?

[Gang Warily]

After reading various news articles and comments I have come to reconize that many of the foreigners here on TV that make comments are doing so without seeing another side of the news reports and comments that are written in Thai. I'm not really sure why that is but the Thai folks seem to know about things days before the foreigner. Example: I have read many times about the CCTV picture that captured the Thai running and only wearing shorts. One story I read said that this Thai man was wearing David's (the victim's) shorts. And that this Thai person must have mistakenly put on the victim's shorts and left his shorts there on the beach. Then written in Thai, the news said that this Thai guy's name in Mon, and the reason that he is running is because since the murders occurred around his area he was made aware of it by the police. He apparently quickly hurried to put only his shorts on and ran to the crime scene to see what happened.

Another example: Sean, the guy that quickly attempted to get off the island and fly back to his country because he felt threatened.

His story seemed very solid, even taking photos. Most foreigners that read about Sean believed him and then began focusing on the two Thai guys (Mon and the other guy which is a policeman).

Written and reported in Thai provided so much more and different information about Sean. The story about the two Thai men were much different than what Sean had portrayed. The Thai news suggests that they have witnesses that not only saw Sean with Blood all over him the night of the murder but they actually helps him clean-up himself. When questioned by locals that helped Sean, he said that he had been in a motorbike accident. Another story suggested that he told someone that he was in a fight with someone.

There has been a lot of focus on Sean. Based on what has been reported in Thai, there are many suggesting that Sean was involved in this gruesome murder.

There is much more that was written in Thai. My only point is that if many of the TV members were aware of many of the stories that have been written in Thai, I think that many of the comments, opinions and anger would be directly somewhat differently.

The only thing that I can suggest is that most should try to refrain from making comments where they are so sure of what took place. There has been so much about the headsman and these Thai guys. So many have gone way out there on a limb stating that they are so corrupt and that they are the guilty ones.

I think very soon within the next couple days or so, more information that was written in Thai will start to be filtered in a way that will be better written and understood by the TV community.

For those that believe that the two or three Thai guys working at AC's bar/club carried out the murder, and are totally guilty, and that it will all be covered up by the authorities, will have a hard pill to swallow when later they catch-up on the news that most all Thai's know about days in advance. Just understand that when you hear what evidence they have, know that it was already reported in Thai before you becomes aware of it.

Also don't be surprised if the focus of attention turns to Sean. There is still much to be said because many fingers point to him.

Having monitored the Thai newspapers I can confirm they are 99 per cent garbage on this. You really should know better.

[chiang mai]

After reading various news articles and comments I have come to reconize that many of the foreigners here on TV that make comments are doing so without seeing another side of the news reports and comments that are written in Thai. I'm not really sure why that is but the Thai folks seem to know about things days before the foreigner. Example: I have read many times about the CCTV picture that captured the Thai running and only wearing shorts. One story I read said that this Thai man was wearing David's (the victim's) shorts. And that this Thai person must have mistakenly put on the victim's shorts and left his shorts there on the beach. Then written in Thai, the news said that this Thai guy's name in Mon, and the reason that he is running is because since the murders occurred around his area he was made aware of it by the police. He apparently quickly hurried to put only his shorts on and ran to the crime scene to see what happened.

Another example: Sean, the guy that quickly attempted to get off the island and fly back to his country because he felt threatened.

His story seemed very solid, even taking photos. Most foreigners that read about Sean believed him and then began focusing on the two Thai guys (Mon and the other guy which is a policeman).

Written and reported in Thai provided so much more and different information about Sean. The story about the two Thai men were much different than what Sean had portrayed. The Thai news suggests that they have witnesses that not only saw Sean with Blood all over him the night of the murder but they actually helps him clean-up himself. When questioned by locals that helped Sean, he said that he had been in a motorbike accident. Another story suggested that he told someone that he was in a fight with someone.

There has been a lot of focus on Sean. Based on what has been reported in Thai, there are many suggesting that Sean was involved in this gruesome murder.

There is much more that was written in Thai. My only point is that if many of the TV members were aware of many of the stories that have been written in Thai, I think that many of the comments, opinions and anger would be directly somewhat differently.

The only thing that I can suggest is that most should try to refrain from making comments where they are so sure of what took place. There has been so much about the headsman and these Thai guys. So many have gone way out there on a limb stating that they are so corrupt and that they are the guilty ones.

I think very soon within the next couple days or so, more information that was written in Thai will start to be filtered in a way that will be better written and understood by the TV community.

For those that believe that the two or three Thai guys working at AC's bar/club carried out the murder, and are totally guilty, and that it will all be covered up by the authorities, will have a hard pill to swallow when later they catch-up on the news that most all Thai's know about days in advance. Just understand that when you hear what evidence they have, know that it was already reported in Thai before you becomes aware of it.

Also don't be surprised if the focus of attention turns to Sean. There is still much to be said because many fingers point to him.

Very well described, I agree completely, casual tourists, conspiracy theorists and similar should keep their views on this subject to themselves rather than trying to garner support for what they think may be the final outcome. Are you listening FH!

[SteveFong]

what a joke,

pretending the thai newspapers are ahead of the story,

they havent a clue

[inutil]

A further question: Sean is neither an mma cage fighter or an octopus. How could he subdue TWO people (one of them very much bigger than him), without either of the other two raising an alarm or attempting to flee?

Oh yeah and er, that whole DNA thing...

Edited September 27, 2014 by inutil