Lessons on democracy to be taught shortly

[Local Drunk]

Teacher: How do you spell democracy?

Student: c o r r u p t i o n

Teacher: Very good!

Student: Sticker please...

[jayboy]

Hope they drum this into them -

"Democracies conduct regular free and fair elections open to all citizens. Elections in a democracy cannot be facades that dictators or a single party hide behind, but authentic competitions for the support of the people."

Thailand never was a North Korea or similar.Democracy here was imperfect for many reasons not least because the unelected elites refused to accept the will of the people.However as all independent local and international agencies confirmed, elections have been held here to acceptable standards in which all parties were able to compete.One does not find the likes of Abhisit disputing this.

[rubl]

"An election is not the only solution for democracy, which needs to have the standardised rule of law..."

The people who have toppled the government, suspended the constitution, suspended basic human rights (freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of association, etc.) and granted themselves amnesty for their actions are going to teach 'standardized rule of law'?

Of course not. That's a job for their hangers on.

Not at all. That's a job for teachers.

BTW anyone here who has a (preferably English) version of the program to be taught ? If possible I also like the 'red-shirt for democracy' program. Just to compare things a bit. See for myself what both have to do with democracy, rights and duties.

[Ozziepat]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha...

Ow. That hurts. Please. Someone turn off the bubble machine.

[JOC]

112

[iReason]

"He urged the ministry to create a new culture in society for people to accurately understand democracy."

Too bad George Orwell is not available.

Or his banned book...

[halloween]

A look at the subject matter would be interesting, but I'm sure it will be quite a bit different to the privately run "democracy schools" of a few years back.

Perhaps we could get some of our TVF posters a seat in a class. There are quite a few who seem never to have got past "elections" and into the more challenging aspects.

With your extensive knowledge of democracy perhaps you could detail and explain the more challenging aspects of that democracy that "quite a few" are not sufficiently intelligent to grasp.

Perhaps you could start with explaining how the "democracy" that existed and was readily accepted between 2008 and 2011 apparently morphed into a "democracy" that the Thai populace was not ready for in subsequent years. Then maybe you could expound on why the abrogation of all democratic rights as a result of a military coup and the establishment of a pseudo "government" whose actions can be overturned at any time by the junta under Article 44 is supposedly the antidote to a fully functional democracy?

Ready when you are.

You could try doing your own homework, a little self education never goes astray. I don't recall ever endorsing the Democrat government as an example of a exemplary democracy, but it did have a few features missing in the preceding and following years. But over the whole period I have been hers, some 15+ years, I have yet to see an informed and educated populace, an independent police force and other regulatory bodies, costing of election promises, a press able to freely criticise and comment, transparency in the issuing of government contracts, declarations of conflict of interest from government members and abstentions from votes.

Instead under Thaksinist governments, I HAVE seen a corrupt billionaire buy popular politicians to his political party, and use the votes for them to appoint himself and cronies to powerful positions without EVER facing an electorate, blatant corruption, self-serving policies, illegal acts to benefit party members, a government run by skype, formation of a political party militia, nepotism and promotion of cronies to high "independent" body positions, the democratic sham called UDD, the unfettered intimidation and murder of those that dare to voice opposition.

As the above situations are hardly likely to be self-rectifying, I, amongst others, am willing to accept a short period of admitted autocracy (preferable to the former posing as democracy) to attempt reform.

Now you can go back to your simplistic "elected government" and human rights repetitive crap.

Edited September 28, 2014 by halloween

[smutcakes]

A look at the subject matter would be interesting, but I'm sure it will be quite a bit different to the privately run "democracy schools" of a few years back.

Perhaps we could get some of our TVF posters a seat in a class. There are quite a few who seem never to have got past "elections" and into the more challenging aspects.

With your extensive knowledge of democracy perhaps you could detail and explain the more challenging aspects of that democracy that "quite a few" are not sufficiently intelligent to grasp.

Perhaps you could start with explaining how the "democracy" that existed and was readily accepted between 2008 and 2011 apparently morphed into a "democracy" that the Thai populace was not ready for in subsequent years. Then maybe you could expound on why the abrogation of all democratic rights as a result of a military coup and the establishment of a pseudo "government" whose actions can be overturned at any time by the junta under Article 44 is supposedly the antidote to a fully functional democracy?

Ready when you are.

You could try doing your own homework, a little self education never goes astray. I don't recall ever endorsing the Democrat government as an example of a exemplary democracy, but it did have a few features missing in the preceding and following years. But over the whole period I have been hers, some 15+ years, I have yet to see an informed and educated populace, an independent police force and other regulatory bodies, costing of election promises, a press able to freely criticise and comment, transparency in the issuing of government contracts, declarations of conflict of interest from government members and abstentions from votes.

Instead under Thaksinist governments, I HAVE seen a corrupt billionaire buy popular politicians to his political party, and use the votes for them to appoint himself and cronies to powerful positions without EVER facing an electorate, blatant corruption, self-serving policies, illegal acts to benefit party members, a government run by skype, formation of a political party militia, nepotism and promotion of cronies to high "independent" body positions, the democratic sham called UDD, the unfettered intimidation and murder of those that dare to voice opposition.

As the above situations are hardly likely to be self-rectifying, I, amongst others, am willing to accept a short period of admitted autocracy (preferable to the former posing as democracy) to attempt reform.

Now you can go back to your simplistic "elected government" and human rights repetitive crap.

You are aware that since 'Democracy' first inception in Thailand, that the military have been in power for more than any one civilian party. Do you not think they have to bare a large part of the responsibility for the current state of ills of the country, and secondly why in the world would they suddenly kill their own gravy train as well. The only reason the police have a worse reputation for corruption is they are in contact with the public a lot more. The corruption, cronyism and all other ills associated with the police are equally as prevalent in the army, they are just less visible to ordinary citizens. Would you trust the police reform run the country? No, so why do you trust the army?

[AGareth2]

you have to start somewhere

[halloween]

You are aware that since 'Democracy' first inception in Thailand, that the military have been in power for more than any one civilian party. Do you not think they have to bare a large part of the responsibility for the current state of ills of the country, and secondly why in the world would they suddenly kill their own gravy train as well. The only reason the police have a worse reputation for corruption is they are in contact with the public a lot more. The corruption, cronyism and all other ills associated with the police are equally as prevalent in the army, they are just less visible to ordinary citizens. Would you trust the police reform run the country? No, so why do you trust the army?

Try to understand that to answer your question, I would have to accept those unsupported "facts" that you use to frame your question. Which leads me to ask "Why would i trust you?"

[andybule]

The blind will teach us how to drive.

Thai girls will teach us how to attain white skin

Monks from the temple in Sukothai will teach us how to deal in drugs and watch porno movies

Taxi drivers will teach us how to be responsible drives

and.....the Thai government will teach democracy.

Ok, got it!

and young students will teach us how to play games after class

[citizen33]

Recently I skimmed through the Civil Service Act, 2008, and came across the following:

Section 36. A person entering the civil service must have general

qualifications and not be under a prohibition, as follows:

A. General Qualifications:

(1) being of Thai nationality;

(2) being at least 18 years of age;

(3) being a person with pure faith in the democratic form of government with the King as Head of State;

Will we have a flood of resignations or can the wording of (3) be changed to clarify the nature of Thai democracy?

[smutcakes]

You are aware that since 'Democracy' first inception in Thailand, that the military have been in power for more than any one civilian party. Do you not think they have to bare a large part of the responsibility for the current state of ills of the country, and secondly why in the world would they suddenly kill their own gravy train as well. The only reason the police have a worse reputation for corruption is they are in contact with the public a lot more. The corruption, cronyism and all other ills associated with the police are equally as prevalent in the army, they are just less visible to ordinary citizens. Would you trust the police reform run the country? No, so why do you trust the army?

Try to understand that to answer your question, I would have to accept those unsupported "facts" that you use to frame your question. Which leads me to ask "Why would i trust you?"

Why unsupported facts?

[halloween]

You are aware that since 'Democracy' first inception in Thailand, that the military have been in power for more than any one civilian party. Do you not think they have to bare a large part of the responsibility for the current state of ills of the country, and secondly why in the world would they suddenly kill their own gravy train as well. The only reason the police have a worse reputation for corruption is they are in contact with the public a lot more. The corruption, cronyism and all other ills associated with the police are equally as prevalent in the army, they are just less visible to ordinary citizens. Would you trust the police reform run the country? No, so why do you trust the army?

On second thoughts, if I were to accept your "facts" and rule out both the RTA and RTP, what are you offering as an alternative? should we have allowed Yingluk to go her merry way until her rice scam collapses under its own losses, in the meanwhile allowing her supporters to continue routine murder of those who object (and innocent children as collateral damage)? The Democrats 9just joking)? some other alternative?

Or should there been a forced election, complete with ruinous (continue the rice scam) and false promises? Given the results in the red heartland of the cancelled election, PTP would not have been returned. Would you now be railing against the Democrat government for whatever imaginary reasons thaksin's propagandists conjure?

[khunjamesjohnson]

If the wrong guy wins, call the Army.

[halloween]

You are aware that since 'Democracy' first inception in Thailand, that the military have been in power for more than any one civilian party. Do you not think they have to bare a large part of the responsibility for the current state of ills of the country, and secondly why in the world would they suddenly kill their own gravy train as well. The only reason the police have a worse reputation for corruption is they are in contact with the public a lot more. The corruption, cronyism and all other ills associated with the police are equally as prevalent in the army, they are just less visible to ordinary citizens. Would you trust the police reform run the country? No, so why do you trust the army?

Try to understand that to answer your question, I would have to accept those unsupported "facts" that you use to frame your question. Which leads me to ask "Why would i trust you?"

Why unsupported facts?

i don't accept that the military are as corrupt as the RTP, or that individual military governments should be lumped into one to be judged against any one civilian party. Much of the corruption in the RTP is because of the interaction with the politicians and their promotion of cronies to positions of power, something the military has steadfastly refused to accept.

[khunjamesjohnson]

I predict the General will be the head of the next Privy Council and run the country for possibly decades behind the scenes while the Thais play democracy/coup again and again.

[fab4]

A look at the subject matter would be interesting, but I'm sure it will be quite a bit different to the privately run "democracy schools" of a few years back.

Perhaps we could get some of our TVF posters a seat in a class. There are quite a few who seem never to have got past "elections" and into the more challenging aspects.

With your extensive knowledge of democracy perhaps you could detail and explain the more challenging aspects of that democracy that "quite a few" are not sufficiently intelligent to grasp.

Perhaps you could start with explaining how the "democracy" that existed and was readily accepted between 2008 and 2011 apparently morphed into a "democracy" that the Thai populace was not ready for in subsequent years. Then maybe you could expound on why the abrogation of all democratic rights as a result of a military coup and the establishment of a pseudo "government" whose actions can be overturned at any time by the junta under Article 44 is supposedly the antidote to a fully functional democracy?

Ready when you are.

You could try doing your own homework, a little self education never goes astray. I don't recall ever endorsing the Democrat government as an example of a exemplary democracy, but it did have a few features missing in the preceding and following years. But over the whole period I have been hers, some 15+ years, I have yet to see an informed and educated populace, an independent police force and other regulatory bodies, costing of election promises, a press able to freely criticise and comment, transparency in the issuing of government contracts, declarations of conflict of interest from government members and abstentions from votes.

Instead under Thaksinist governments, I HAVE seen a corrupt billionaire buy popular politicians to his political party, and use the votes for them to appoint himself and cronies to powerful positions without EVER facing an electorate, blatant corruption, self-serving policies, illegal acts to benefit party members, a government run by skype, formation of a political party militia, nepotism and promotion of cronies to high "independent" body positions, the democratic sham called UDD, the unfettered intimidation and murder of those that dare to voice opposition.

As the above situations are hardly likely to be self-rectifying, I, amongst others, am willing to accept a short period of admitted autocracy (preferable to the former posing as democracy) to attempt reform.

Now you can go back to your simplistic "elected government" and human rights repetitive crap.

You are aware that since 'Democracy' first inception in Thailand, that the military have been in power for more than any one civilian party. Do you not think they have to bare a large part of the responsibility for the current state of ills of the country, and secondly why in the world would they suddenly kill their own gravy train as well. The only reason the police have a worse reputation for corruption is they are in contact with the public a lot more. The corruption, cronyism and all other ills associated with the police are equally as prevalent in the army, they are just less visible to ordinary citizens. Would you trust the police reform run the country? No, so why do you trust the army?

I think the fact that he/she regards discussion of the removal of certain human rights as repetitive crap should explain why. It's not even worth going into the blatant corruption, unfettered intimidation etc, etc dogma. Apparently, that rant is what passes for a detailed explanation of democracies challenging aspects in Thailand. I didn't hold out much hope for a reasoned discourse - I wasn't disappointed.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Which version will it be , the Thai version , the western Democracy version or the Shinawatra version 2. width=32 alt=cheesy.gif>

Maybe Ms. thida and Dr. weng offered the E.C. their 'red-shirt school for democracy' curriculum ?

Ahhh yes, that would be:

- 100 ways to twist the truth to support your own cause, lacking in any form of balanced policy for the development of a fair and balanced civil society.

- 100 ways to construct hate messages.

- 100 ways to doctor audio tapes, etc.

- 100 ways to work with all of the above with no conscience.

- 100 ways to ensure all local villagers all say 'yes sir' when instructed.

Edited September 28, 2014 by scorecard

[fab4]

i don't accept that the military are as corrupt as the RTP, or that individual military governments should be lumped into one to be judged against any one civilian party. Much of the corruption in the RTP is because of the interaction with the politicians and their promotion of cronies to positions of power, something the military has steadfastly refused to accept.

but are quite ready to emulate those actions whilst their supporters cry into their beer, "Tell me it ain't so..............."

Prayuth's brother promoted as Third Army Region commander

March 26, 2013 2:23 pm

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Prayuths-brother-promoted-as-Third-Army-Region-com-30202746.html

Thai ruler Prayuth gives top cabinet posts to junta inner circle

BY APORNRATH PHOONPHONGPHIPHAT

BANGKOK Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:36pm EDT

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/31/us-thailand-cabinet-idUSKBN0GV0N420140831

[northernjohn]

Quote

accurately understand democracy

Unquote

This is troubling coming from a man who ceased power.

You are probably new to Thailand. It was necessary to seize power in order to start Thailand on the road of democracy. It had been a Government of one family for 11 of the last 14 years. Even the three years it was out it carried enough power to affectively block the in government from making many changes. It also created an army of terrorists and launched them on to Thailand. They also set up a school to teach democracy and when you passed it you could join the terrorists practicing it's brand of Democracy.

Maybe before you post you should look up the facts. Not only what Thailand has had in the past but what the man is trying to do for Thailand.

If you were one of those who have lost a lot of money as a result of the cutting back on corruption and their are many who are. Also they are vocal about the fact that there is a non elected government in power supported by the majority of the people fighting corruption rather than encouraging it. I offer you my condolences.

I am not making a personal accusation it is just a general one. I have no idea if you fall into that category or not.

[cloudhopper]

"He urged the ministry to create a new culture in society for people to accurately understand democracy."

Too bad George Orwell is not available.

Or his banned book...

AFAIK Orwell's books have never been banned in Thailand.

[Lupatria]

They should teach the adults too.

Strange, I went to one of the best schools and universities, yet never had (nor needed) any lesson on "Democracy" per se.

Why don't they encourage children to read books and the Thai equivalent of (e.g.) the Economist for themselves, and form their own independent opinions?

If you have a look at all the stone carved rules, regulations, laws and what they call Thainess and moral standards there is no room left for ‘independent opinions‘.

Sit down, don’t ask questions, just obey and everything will be fine (for us) and don’t forget: the tallest nail gets the hammer.

[Thai at Heart]

Lessons on the dangers of corruption are all that is needed.

[khunjamesjohnson]

Quote

accurately understand democracy

Unquote

This is troubling coming from a man who ceased power.

You are probably new to Thailand. It was necessary to seize power in order to start Thailand on the road of democracy. It had been a Government of one family for 11 of the last 14 years. Even the three years it was out it carried enough power to affectively block the in government from making many changes. It also created an army of terrorists and launched them on to Thailand. They also set up a school to teach democracy and when you passed it you could join the terrorists practicing it's brand of Democracy.

Maybe before you post you should look up the facts. Not only what Thailand has had in the past but what the man is trying to do for Thailand.

If you were one of those who have lost a lot of money as a result of the cutting back on corruption and their are many who are. Also they are vocal about the fact that there is a non elected government in power supported by the majority of the people fighting corruption rather than encouraging it. I offer you my condolences.

I am not making a personal accusation it is just a general one. I have no idea if you fall into that category or not.

It is easy to spot the posters that read The Nation.

You do know there is no freedom of the press in Thailand?

Try reading the stuff they don't want you to read.

[iReason]

"He urged the ministry to create a new culture in society for people to accurately understand democracy."

Too bad George Orwell is not available.

Or his banned book...

AFAIK Orwell's books have never been banned in Thailand.

http://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/thailand-military-dictatorship-bans-orwells-1984/

You’re aware they make movies from books aren’t you?

There are others as well...

[cloudhopper]

"He urged the ministry to create a new culture in society for people to accurately understand democracy."

Too bad George Orwell is not available.

Or his banned book...

AFAIK Orwell's books have never been banned in Thailand.

http://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/thailand-military-dictatorship-bans-orwells-1984/

You’re aware they make movies from books aren’t you?

There are others as well...

Thanks I stand corrected - 1984 has been banned in Thailand by dearkitty

They make movies from books? That's 2 things I learned today please tell me about the others.

[beautifulthailand99]

Today class we are going to talk about voting and democracy - <click> slide 1 na khrap.....

[Emster23]

I would just love to see the lesson plans for teaching modules on "Freedom of speech" and "Freedom of the press", two essential components of a functional democracy.

[rubl]

I would just love to see the lesson plans for teaching modules on "Freedom of speech" and "Freedom of the press", two essential components of a functional democracy.

As history teaches us, that's part of the 'advanced' classes.