Lessons on democracy to be taught shortly

[Fred Flinstone]

Quote

accurately understand democracy

Unquote

This is troubling coming from a man who ceased power.

You are probably new to Thailand. It was necessary to seize power in order to start Thailand on the road of democracy. It had been a Government of one family for 11 of the last 14 years. Even the three years it was out it carried enough power to affectively block the in government from making many changes. It also created an army of terrorists and launched them on to Thailand. They also set up a school to teach democracy and when you passed it you could join the terrorists practicing it's brand of Democracy.

Maybe before you post you should look up the facts. Not only what Thailand has had in the past but what the man is trying to do for Thailand.

If you were one of those who have lost a lot of money as a result of the cutting back on corruption and their are many who are. Also they are vocal about the fact that there is a non elected government in power supported by the majority of the people fighting corruption rather than encouraging it. I offer you my condolences.

I am not making a personal accusation it is just a general one. I have no idea if you fall into that category or not.

It is easy to spot the posters that read The Nation.

You do know there is no freedom of the press in Thailand?

Try reading the stuff they don't want you to read.

Legalities of speech says it all- be it here - or in disagreement with the men that have taken control with weapons

[mikehock]

A look at the subject matter would be interesting, but I'm sure it will be quite a bit different to the privately run "democracy schools" of a few years back.

Perhaps we could get some of our TVF posters a seat in a class. There are quite a few who seem never to have got past "elections" and into the more challenging aspects.

With your extensive knowledge of democracy perhaps you could detail and explain the more challenging aspects of that democracy that "quite a few" are not sufficiently intelligent to grasp.

Perhaps you could start with explaining how the "democracy" that existed and was readily accepted between 2008 and 2011 apparently morphed into a "democracy" that the Thai populace was not ready for in subsequent years. Then maybe you could expound on why the abrogation of all democratic rights as a result of a military coup and the establishment of a pseudo "government" whose actions can be overturned at any time by the junta under Article 44 is supposedly the antidote to a fully functional democracy?

Ready when you are.

Fab4....you must have known he was referring to you. ...and you couldn't resist replying

Too predictable...

And just confirms the point made.

[rubl]

It is easy to spot the posters that read The Nation.

You do know there is no freedom of the press in Thailand?

Try reading the stuff they don't want you to read.

For those of us in Thailand that's close to an invitation to disaster.

Mind you, even "Jakrapop Penkair's blogspot For Truth" is still accesable from within Thailand. Doesn't help some posters here to find out the truth about democracy though as it's in Thai only .

EDIT: correction. the website is an interesting mix of English and Thai. Aimed at intellectual Thai I guess.

ADD on the other hand Democracy100% is Thai only and starts with this picture

Edited September 28, 2014 by rubl

[scorecard]

fabie and 'ready when you are'.... '....Removal of human rights....'.

Be careful fabie, your setting yourself up, as you often do, for some strong kickback, especially in terms of the ultimate example of 'removal of human rights' expounded into 'summary execution / crimes against humanity'.

[heybruce]

"An election is not the only solution for democracy, which needs to have the standardised rule of law..."

The people who have toppled the government, suspended the constitution, suspended basic human rights (freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of association, etc.) and granted themselves amnesty for their actions are going to teach 'standardized rule of law'?

They could also explain "conflicts of interest" and "insider trading" pointing out that these are actually illegal and should not be why politicians seek the job. Then they could move on to "nepotism and cronyism", emphasis being made that they are NOT desirable in a democracy, even if your retarded cousin needs a job.

I admit the concept of altruism is going to be a hard sell, but it really wouldn't hurt to let people know that it exists.

Right, conflict of interests and insider trading have no place in politics, they belong in the military where they are legal.

[rubl]

fabie and 'ready when you are'.... '....Removal of human rights....'.

Be careful fabie, your setting yourself up, as you often do, for some strong kickback, especially in terms of the ultimate example of 'removal of human rights' expounded into 'summary execution / crimes against humanity'.

Some never learn.

Mind you checking all the naughty websites I just noticed Robert A. has picked up on the 'respect my vote' bit. An article from August has

"“More than 90 Thai citizens were brutally murdered by the Thai Army under the direction of Abhisit and Suthep simply because they protested for their right to vote."

It would seem not only democracy, but truth is a casualty as well in games some people play.

[rubl]

"An election is not the only solution for democracy, which needs to have the standardised rule of law..."

The people who have toppled the government, suspended the constitution, suspended basic human rights (freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of association, etc.) and granted themselves amnesty for their actions are going to teach 'standardized rule of law'?

They could also explain "conflicts of interest" and "insider trading" pointing out that these are actually illegal and should not be why politicians seek the job. Then they could move on to "nepotism and cronyism", emphasis being made that they are NOT desirable in a democracy, even if your retarded cousin needs a job.

I admit the concept of altruism is going to be a hard sell, but it really wouldn't hurt to let people know that it exists.

Right, conflict of interests and insider trading have no place in politics, they belong in the military where they are legal.

Is that a lesson from the "Brucy's handbook for proper democracy" ?

[Eric Loh]

Quote

accurately understand democracy

Unquote

This is troubling coming from a man who ceased power.

You are probably new to Thailand. It was necessary to seize power in order to start Thailand on the road of democracy. It had been a Government of one family for 11 of the last 14 years. Even the three years it was out it carried enough power to affectively block the in government from making many changes. It also created an army of terrorists and launched them on to Thailand. They also set up a school to teach democracy and when you passed it you could join the terrorists practicing it's brand of Democracy.

Maybe before you post you should look up the facts. Not only what Thailand has had in the past but what the man is trying to do for Thailand.

If you were one of those who have lost a lot of money as a result of the cutting back on corruption and their are many who are. Also they are vocal about the fact that there is a non elected government in power supported by the majority of the people fighting corruption rather than encouraging it. I offer you my condolences.

I am not making a personal accusation it is just a general one. I have no idea if you fall into that category or not.

I am sure I heard this before. Now I remember. Heard the same speech from Sutherp on his PDRC stage.

[Fred Flinstone]

Often weak men will submit its not unusual

Don't waste time debating with them.

If they like being restricted in freedoms etc by men in uniforms go figure

Edited September 28, 2014 by Fred Flinstone

[lvr181]

Quote

accurately understand democracy

Unquote

This is troubling coming from a man who ceased power.

He hasn't "ceased" it yet! I am sure you meant to say "seized".

[Strangebrew]

If Thai's can be taught it is OK to agree to disagree, then they will understand that democracy is rule by the people for the people. And when the people they elect fail to understand this then impeach them make them held accountable for there actions. Also all politicians Lie, Period.

[lvr181]

fabie and 'ready when you are'.... '....Removal of human rights....'.

Be careful fabie, your setting yourself up, as you often do, for some strong kickback, especially in terms of the ultimate example of 'removal of human rights' expounded into 'summary execution / crimes against humanity'.

Some never learn.

Mind you checking all the naughty websites I just noticed Robert A. has picked up on the 'respect my vote' bit. An article from August has

"“More than 90 Thai citizens were brutally murdered by the Thai Army under the direction of Abhisit and Suthep simply because they protested for their right to vote."

It would seem not only democracy, but truth is a casualty as well in games some people play.

As in any "war" truth is always the first casualty, sadly.

[halloween]

I think the fact that he/she regards discussion of the removal of certain human rights as repetitive crap should explain why. It's not even worth going into the blatant corruption, unfettered intimidation etc, etc dogma. Apparently, that rant is what passes for a detailed explanation of democracies challenging aspects in Thailand. I didn't hold out much hope for a reasoned discourse - I wasn't disappointed.

That was "unfettered intimidation and murder of those that dare to voice opposition.". Actually I think that the most important human right of all is being allowed to remain living even you you object to the blatant corruption of the government. Without it, you don't get freedom of expression, voting, etc. If you could prove to me that Yingluk and PTP did anything to restrict the actions of their thugs, I will happily remove the "unfettered", but I doubt that will happen.

If you find 'blatant corruption" unacceptable, you may wish to contact the courts in regard to the charges awaiting Thaksin. I will believe Prayuth is as bad when he starts ordering banks to issue billion baht loans to companies which collapse almost immediately after, or issues "soft" loans to other countries to make purchases from his companies, or sets up a corruption ridden vote-buying scam that will lose the country around THB1 trillion.

Oh that's right, it's not "lost" according to you. Where is it again?

[Alwyn]

Crikey, where to start? Khun Suthep thinks an unelected people's council is democracy. Khun Thaksin had his own very bizarre idea of what democracy is (as long as he had an earner out of it, it was democracy) and now we are in a position where the country has a dictator who has banned political parties, banned freedom of press - and so on - and the EC, the very people who refused to allow an election to proceed, want to give lessons on democracy. What wonderful World we live in, something new each day!

[Robespiere]

Quote

accurately understand democracy

Unquote

This is troubling coming from a man who ceased power.

You are probably new to Thailand. It was necessary to seize power in order to start Thailand on the road of democracy. It had been a Government of one family for 11 of the last 14 years. Even the three years it was out it carried enough power to affectively block the in government from making many changes. It also created an army of terrorists and launched them on to Thailand. They also set up a school to teach democracy and when you passed it you could join the terrorists practicing it's brand of Democracy.

Maybe before you post you should look up the facts. Not only what Thailand has had in the past but what the man is trying to do for Thailand.

If you were one of those who have lost a lot of money as a result of the cutting back on corruption and their are many who are. Also they are vocal about the fact that there is a non elected government in power supported by the majority of the people fighting corruption rather than encouraging it. I offer you my condolences.

I am not making a personal accusation it is just a general one. I have no idea if you fall into that category or not.

What a pathetic apology for the theft of the rights of the citizens of the nation.

The suggestion that anyone opposed to the current regime and its means of acquiring absolute power is a beneficiary of corruption is ridiculous.

How puerile and pathetic.

[Xangsamhua]

"Countries which set up democracies before they have functioning states, governed by the rule of law and administered through autonomous, meritocratic bureaucracies frequently find that the institutions of state are hijacked by politicians and corrupted as a result". (From a review of Francis Fukuyama's new book.)

Does Thailand have a functioning state governed by the rule of law administered by a meritocratic bureaucracy?

[fab4]

A look at the subject matter would be interesting, but I'm sure it will be quite a bit different to the privately run "democracy schools" of a few years back.

Perhaps we could get some of our TVF posters a seat in a class. There are quite a few who seem never to have got past "elections" and into the more challenging aspects.

With your extensive knowledge of democracy perhaps you could detail and explain the more challenging aspects of that democracy that "quite a few" are not sufficiently intelligent to grasp.

Perhaps you could start with explaining how the "democracy" that existed and was readily accepted between 2008 and 2011 apparently morphed into a "democracy" that the Thai populace was not ready for in subsequent years. Then maybe you could expound on why the abrogation of all democratic rights as a result of a military coup and the establishment of a pseudo "government" whose actions can be overturned at any time by the junta under Article 44 is supposedly the antidote to a fully functional democracy?

Ready when you are.

Fab4....you must have known he was referring to you. ...and you couldn't resist replying

Too predictable...

And just confirms the point made.

I'm sorry, do I know you?

[asdecas]

One supposes that the irony is lost on the present 'leadership'.

[ggt]

Would you please take the time to teach the current US gov't what it means to govern a democracy responsibly?...they seem to have lost their way...

[tbthailand]

'lessons on democracy to be taught shortly'

are they going to provide one year visas to the teachers?

[ThailandNoob]

I would just love to see the lesson plans for teaching modules on "Freedom of speech" and "Freedom of the press", two essential components of a functional democracy.

As history teaches us, that's part of the 'advanced' classes.

These two things are fundamentals for any democracy.

Sent from my IS11T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rubl]

"Countries which set up democracies before they have functioning states, governed by the rule of law and administered through autonomous, meritocratic bureaucracies frequently find that the institutions of state are hijacked by politicians and corrupted as a result". (From a review of Francis Fukuyama's new book.)

Does Thailand have a functioning state governed by the rule of law administered by a meritocratic bureaucracy?

Since the NCPO stepped in a 'more functioning state' I'd say. The rest may follow AFTER possible reforms. Mind you, with one of the members here posting a link to the musings of an older police officer who laments the breaking of the seniority rule, one may wonder if posters are ready for reforms.

[rubl]

I would just love to see the lesson plans for teaching modules on "Freedom of speech" and "Freedom of the press", two essential components of a functional democracy.

As history teaches us, that's part of the 'advanced' classes.

These two things are fundamentals for any democracy.

Fundamentals are those blocks something is build on. As democracy is older than either 'freedom of speech' or 'freedom of the press' the two aspects are not fundamentals. These two aspects have 'become' essential parts of what we now understand talking about democracy.

Keep in mind that 'freedom of the press' was something relative to the government present and 'freedom of speech' might still lead to deportation or worse in the early days of 'democracy'.

[fobuff]

i.e. brainwashing for the great leader

[rubl]

One supposes that the irony is lost on the present 'leadership'.

Not sure there. The NCPO is certainly aware and has said that certain restrictions now are only in place to help stabilise, reduce the political BS and hopefully help in defining reforms with input of most Thai and acceptable by most Thai. Part of reforms is teaching democratic values. That's something to be done now, not in a years time.

[Robespiere]

One supposes that the irony is lost on the present 'leadership'.

Not sure there. The NCPO is certainly aware and has said that certain restrictions now are only in place to help stabilise, reduce the political BS and hopefully help in defining reforms with input of most Thai and acceptable by most Thai. Part of reforms is teaching democratic values. That's something to be done now, not in a years time.

Will part of the reforms include a referendum on the new constitution??

[sirineou]

This is all good stuff, especially when the country is currently operating under Obrigkeitsstaat.

The irony is classical Thai.

Not picking on you Gsxrnz, just using your reply to make a point

No Irony in a dictatorship teaching democracy at all, dont know why anyone would think so.

We would all agree, that democracy was suspended in Thailand, because it was not working. We can all argue as to why it was not working, and who was to blame, but the fact remains that it was not working,

Obviously the people involved in it had no clear understanding on the basic tenants of Democracy , on that respect Thailand is not along in the world.

So now we are where we are,

If we want democracy restored, would we not also want those involved to have a better understanding of the concept?

and if so would it not educating the people involved, on the concept of Democracy, be one of the measures necessary, in restoring Democracy?

So let's not put the horse before the cart,

before people can have democracy, people need to understand what democracy is, and what their role in it is

No Irony in a dictatorship wanting to educate people in what Democracy is before it allows them to practice it.

[mommysboy]

TV posters should be careful of what they wish for: if society is run along the lines of USA, UK, EU it is unlikely Thailand will retain any semblance of the wild east we were once so entranced by, quite the contrary

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 1 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Robespiere]

This is all good stuff, especially when the country is currently operating under Obrigkeitsstaat.

The irony is classical Thai.

Not picking on you Gsxrnz, just using your reply to make a point

No Irony in a dictatorship teaching democracy at all, dont know why anyone would think so.

We would all agree, that democracy was suspended in Thailand, because it was not working. We can all argue as to why it was not working, and who was to blame, but the fact remains that it was not working,

Obviously the people involved in it had no clear understanding on the basic tenants of Democracy , on that respect Thailand is not along in the world.

So now we are where we are,

If we want democracy restored, would we not also want those involved to have a better understanding of the concept?

and if so would it not educating the people involved, on the concept of Democracy, be one of the measures necessary, in restoring Democracy?

So let's not put the horse before the cart,

before people can have democracy, people need to understand what democracy is, and what their role in it is

No Irony in a dictatorship wanting to educate people in what Democracy is before it allows them to practice it.

Democracy was "suspended" because it WAS working.

For the first time in the nations history everyday people had a say in how the nation was to be run.

Sick of being robbed blind by the ruling class and told to live a life of sufficiency where happiness, not money, was the only measure that counted whilst their rulers kept their snouts in the trough.

To say that the common Thai is too dumb to vote defies the reality of the events in the country since 2001.

The people have consistently exercised their franchise and voted in the party that most improved their lot in life.

Democracy will return to Thailand but not because the Dictatorship "allows" it, but because the people will, eventually, rise up and restore it themselves.

[sirineou]

This is all good stuff, especially when the country is currently operating under Obrigkeitsstaat.

The irony is classical Thai.

Not picking on you Gsxrnz, just using your reply to make a point

No Irony in a dictatorship teaching democracy at all, dont know why anyone would think so.

We would all agree, that democracy was suspended in Thailand, because it was not working. We can all argue as to why it was not working, and who was to blame, but the fact remains that it was not working,

Obviously the people involved in it had no clear understanding on the basic tenants of Democracy , on that respect Thailand is not along in the world.

So now we are where we are,

If we want democracy restored, would we not also want those involved to have a better understanding of the concept?

and if so would it not educating the people involved, on the concept of Democracy, be one of the measures necessary, in restoring Democracy?

So let's not put the horse before the cart,

before people can have democracy, people need to understand what democracy is, and what their role in it is

No Irony in a dictatorship wanting to educate people in what Democracy is before it allows them to practice it.

Democracy was "suspended" because it WAS working.

For the first time in the nations history everyday people had a say in how the nation was to be run.

Sick of being robbed blind by the ruling class and told to live a life of sufficiency where happiness, not money, was the only measure that counted whilst their rulers kept their snouts in the trough.

To say that the common Thai is too dumb to vote defies the reality of the events in the country since 2001.

The people have consistently exercised their franchise and voted in the party that most improved their lot in life.

Democracy will return to Thailand but not because the Dictatorship "allows" it, but because the people will, eventually, rise up and restore it themselves.

If by democracy you mean being paid for your vote, or by shutting the city down for weeks, destroying the economy, depriving people of their livelihood, and shutting the government down, then I stand corrected.