Acceptance of each others cultures

[NoshowJones]

Before I met my wife, I was seeing a Thai girl. she took me to her families home in korat where I met about 10 members of her family, this was about three in the afternoon, her brother could speak good English. The family arranged for us all to meet in a restaurant at six that evening.

The girl suggested she show me around korat, so about four, I said to her I was feeling very hungry and we should go for a meal. We did, and then when we all met up at the restaurant at six, I said we have had our meal, I'll just have a glass of orange juice.

I knew I would be expected to pay for that meal for the whole family, but as I was not eating, they could not present me with the bill. This is one part of Thai culture which I don't like, and will never accept. They do the inviting, I do the paying. That's OK if there are say four of us but more than ten? No chance.

[winstonc]

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What sort of bar, respectable Thai family won't go in certain sorts of bar.

Many Buddhist women won't enter a bar under any circumstances.

Anyway, foreigner bar for Thai family = bad idea.

Next time KFC, McD, etc.

PS

House build for a foreigner in a village is rarely a good idea, not many foreigners can take the isolation, and the house has little or no resale value. For your own mental well being better to have a house near the big foreigner centers, CM, HH, Pats, etc.

Yes her mother was with us so I can understand that but my girlfriend is also buddist and she joins me the bars. But her brother who is about 30 years old would not join us and he was one of the ones I was counting on to be a friend in the village who I could go for a drink with so I would not feel so isolated. In reality I was looking for excuses not to build a house and I found my excuses because I do like to go in a few bars (maybe not so respectable) while my girlfriend is away at her village and if there are any bars in her village they probably would be respectable.

Why do so many mens social life have to revolve around alcohol?

because they cant read and have no brain to think what else they can do..there are only so many pictures in a newspaper to look at ..then what...

[thailiketoo]

Before I met my wife, I was seeing a Thai girl. she took me to her families home in korat where I met about 10 members of her family, this was about three in the afternoon, her brother could speak good English. The family arranged for us all to meet in a restaurant at six that evening.

The girl suggested she show me around korat, so about four, I said to her I was feeling very hungry and we should go for a meal. We did, and then when we all met up at the restaurant at six, I said we have had our meal, I'll just have a glass of orange juice.

I knew I would be expected to pay for that meal for the whole family, but as I was not eating, they could not present me with the bill. This is one part of Thai culture which I don't like, and will never accept. They do the inviting, I do the paying. That's OK if there are say four of us but more than ten? No chance.

When I go out with my wife's family they pay. I try but they won't let me. I think it is the family rather than Thai culture that determines who pays. Some families the richest member always pays in others the oldest, richest one pays. I don't think it is a firm rule at least not in my experience.

Edited October 1, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Aussieroaming]

Why get angry because they didn't want to go into an Irish bar. They were probably feeling pretty uncomfortable. I you really want acceptance from them and friendship, then respect their beliefs and tell them to respect yours. I can't imagine ever taking my in-laws to the pub..

And taking them to a 5 start villa...they probably thought it was a waste of money.

As for expecting the brother to be your drinking buddy .... He's probably like most people, he prefers to drink with his mates. I would have thought that having someone who wasn't going to sponge drinks of you all day would be a bonus.

[NoshowJones]

Before I met my wife, I was seeing a Thai girl. she took me to her families home in korat where I met about 10 members of her family, this was about three in the afternoon, her brother could speak good English. The family arranged for us all to meet in a restaurant at six that evening.

The girl suggested she show me around korat, so about four, I said to her I was feeling very hungry and we should go for a meal. We did, and then when we all met up at the restaurant at six, I said we have had our meal, I'll just have a glass of orange juice.

I knew I would be expected to pay for that meal for the whole family, but as I was not eating, they could not present me with the bill. This is one part of Thai culture which I don't like, and will never accept. They do the inviting, I do the paying. That's OK if there are say four of us but more than ten? No chance.

When I go out with my wife's family they pay. I try but they won't let me. I think it is the family rather than Thai culture that determines who pays. Some families the richest member always pays in others the oldest, richest one pays. I don't think it is a firm rule at least not in my experience.

Good post, but I have also read that in Thai culture, the one who does the inviting pays.

[NoshowJones]

Before I met my wife, I was seeing a Thai girl. she took me to her families home in korat where I met about 10 members of her family, this was about three in the afternoon, her brother could speak good English. The family arranged for us all to meet in a restaurant at six that evening.

The girl suggested she show me around korat, so about four, I said to her I was feeling very hungry and we should go for a meal. We did, and then when we all met up at the restaurant at six, I said we have had our meal, I'll just have a glass of orange juice.

I knew I would be expected to pay for that meal for the whole family, but as I was not eating, they could not present me with the bill. This is one part of Thai culture which I don't like, and will never accept. They do the inviting, I do the paying. That's OK if there are say four of us but more than ten? No chance.

When I go out with my wife's family they pay. I try but they won't let me. I think it is the family rather than Thai culture that determines who pays. Some families the richest member always pays in others the oldest, richest one pays. I don't think it is a firm rule at least not in my experience.

Can't get blood out of a turnip.

I think that when you get invited out for a meal, and then about ten folk turn up and you are expected to pay is taking the piss.

[thailiketoo]

Before I met my wife, I was seeing a Thai girl. she took me to her families home in korat where I met about 10 members of her family, this was about three in the afternoon, her brother could speak good English. The family arranged for us all to meet in a restaurant at six that evening.

The girl suggested she show me around korat, so about four, I said to her I was feeling very hungry and we should go for a meal. We did, and then when we all met up at the restaurant at six, I said we have had our meal, I'll just have a glass of orange juice.

I knew I would be expected to pay for that meal for the whole family, but as I was not eating, they could not present me with the bill. This is one part of Thai culture which I don't like, and will never accept. They do the inviting, I do the paying. That's OK if there are say four of us but more than ten? No chance.

When I go out with my wife's family they pay. I try but they won't let me. I think it is the family rather than Thai culture that determines who pays. Some families the richest member always pays in others the oldest, richest one pays. I don't think it is a firm rule at least not in my experience.

Good post, but I have also read that in Thai culture, the one who does the inviting pays.

True, I have been to a lot of birthday parties where the person having the birthday pays for the food at the restaurant.

[wabothai]

Like Willy says, it will never happen. It MIGHT only happen with extensive knowledge and experience in farang country.

Take your pride and start enjoying Thailand.

[a6patch]

Rightly or wrongly I have found an excuse acceptable to my girlfriend not to build a house. A few days ago I took her to one side and told her to close her mouth and stick her fingers in her ears, she did this and then asked what was the point. So I told her that I feel like that when she is talking to her family and that I may as well be deaf and dumb. I decided then that I needed to learn to speak Thai so I would have a chance to communicate with her family.So I guess learning Thai is not so important now so I will stick to learning my guitar.

It really doesn't have to do with this girl or her family. If you want to be happy living in Thailand (or anyplace else really), why on earth wouldn't you want to learn the local language?! Living in Thailand is so much better when you can bridge that language gap. Casual chats with food vendors, taxi drivers, neighbors, etc. make living in Thailand actually about living in Thailand, and not just some long extended sex tour.

[Sigurris]

he OP seems to be getting flamed for trying to change his gf's family. I don't read it like that at all. To me he was just offering them a glimpse into his world so they would know more about what they were getting with a Farang in the family. That the family refused to even look into the world says to me that they are uninterested inhis world, and by extension, him. If I take my Gf to England for a visit I would not ask her to adopt the culture and norms of England. Its just a visit. But if we were to settle there then I would expect her to try to balance her culture with mone so that she felt more assimilated. The OP offered a visit not re-settlement.

As long as the OP realises where he stands his actions can reflect that. So not building a house in nakon nowhere is a good idea. The great thing about Thailand is it is relatively eady and cheap to get about. His gf can visit her family whenever she wants, he gets some me time and no-one in the village will miss him (and vis a versa).

[Tony125]

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you are 100% wrong and she's a fool to marry you!

Now come on not 100 percent wrong and she does see my good side and that bulge in my pocket

Seems you don't have an idea what a relationship is no wonder other girls said you were hard to live with. You base your girlfriend/future wife staying with you because of the "bulge" in your poket and say she would probably be out of there if it wasn't for the allowence you give her. She may go along with what you want but if roles were reversed can you not see the deep resentment of having to be like a servent/slave to someone because your dependant on them for you survival? Iv'e got the money so i make the rules! yeh you seem like a real prise.

And for the brother not going in with you to the bar it was probably more a show of respect to his family than a snub of you. My father in law and brother in law don't accept invitation from me or some of my farang friends who visit to hang out when my wife or thier wife is around but if my wife or their wife is not around have gone to a bar even a girly bar with us but arent't going to let their wives know.

You said other relationships you had failed , not surprising.

[andypatt]

So you're basing your future on the basis that your future wife's family were too shy to go into a noisy bar, no doubt full of Farangs and prostitutes , to drink with you? Have you never noticed that THAI people doin t tend to drink in Farang bars. You Said you wanted them to see your "culture ". Well I'm sure they were highly impressed

[AYJAYDEE]

he OP seems to be getting flamed for trying to change his gf's family. I don't read it like that at all. To me he was just offering them a glimpse into his world so they would know more about what they were getting with a Farang in the family. That the family refused to even look into the world says to me that they are uninterested inhis world, and by extension, him. If I take my Gf to England for a visit I would not ask her to adopt the culture and norms of England. Its just a visit. But if we were to settle there then I would expect her to try to balance her culture with mone so that she felt more assimilated. The OP offered a visit not re-settlement.

As long as the OP realises where he stands his actions can reflect that. So not building a house in nakon nowhere is a good idea. The great thing about Thailand is it is relatively eady and cheap to get about. His gf can visit her family whenever she wants, he gets some me time and no-one in the village will miss him (and vis a versa).

its not lack of interest, its uncomfortableness. like him, you really have no idea of the power of the status levels built in to their culture.

[Ittabena]

From an historical perspective, westerners have always expected other, and indigenous, peoples to accept their ways immediately and without question, usually without understanding there's first in the least. Most times when this didn't happen the indigenous culture was villainized, attacked and often exterminated.

Perhaps, this Thai family isn't the drinking type of family, that certainly doesn't mean they do not have value.

Seems to me that you are the one that has failed to accept their culture, at least to the degree that you accept them being different than you expected them to be, or felt they should be.

People and things are rarely the way we imagine them to be, but this takes decades for most of us Westerners to come to understand.

To me this sounds like your ego was wounded and you didn't react to that well, your statement in the comments about the bulge in your pocket goes a long way to confirm this. Most Eastern beliefs tend to strive to overcome and quit the ego, as does the Judaic Qabala. To me this seems like one of their better ideas.

Maybe you should have spent your time focused on them and what they wanted to see, rather than what you wanted to show them. Maybe it was something they didn't want to see.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, for whatever that is wort to ya.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Ittabena

[yanyk]

. In short I have cancelled the house build but I have said I will still marry my girlfriend but without any dowry and without the family involved in any way. She has agreed.

she agreed?? watch out !!

[iamariva1957]

Oh come on! I am sorry but what you did sounded more like a 'test' than anything else. What idea got into your head that giving a Thai family a test was a good thing anyway? Did you want to prove something to yourself perhaps? Do you really think that you passed their 'test'? What you have posted raises more questions than it provides answers.

There will be the ones on this site that will tell you to "Run!". There will be those that will tell you that "You're are better off cancelling the whole marriage" thing. Then there will be the ones that will tell you that what you did was wrong across the board. Well, though I think that you could have done things differently, I have to say that I am more from the latter group.

We Farangs) have our own cultural backgrounds and here in Thai those backgrounds are just not there. Trying to 'educate' those possible future Thai family members in those Western cultural constructs is both pointless and a more than patronizing to say the least. Oh sure, they (the Thais) expect us to understand their culture and try and abide by its foundations. But the fact is that they really have no idea what or why anyone should be expected to do that. Try and remember that in every Thai school you will find the vast majority of the students, when asked which subject is the hardest for them, they will tell you that Thai is. Seems that even their own language is difficult for them to grasp. Whereas we do not have the problem at the same level with our own. So why would you expect that they would be able to see and/or understand your culture constructs and accept that there are differences between the two?

Though I completely understand your wish for them to give as much time as you might have, seeing things through the POV of a Thai and doing your best to live using Thai ways of doing things or even thinking, you are making a mistake believing that they will be able to do the same for you. For even the Thais don't really understand their own way of life (as said to me countless times by my Thai friends) and have not had the same level of basic education, travel, experience, self confidence, etc, or the understanding of basic sarcasm to be able to pull that off.

I am NOT saying that the Thais are in some way inferior or backward in any way! Understand that! What I am saying is that their culture is older and less understood by the majority here. It is just labeled the way things are 'done' and/or just simply 'are'. There is an old expression; "Thai style. No reason. Farang style. too many reasons" (this comes from my Thai friends). So yes, you will find yourself in the minority when it comes to logical thinking and so will have to bend (perhaps more than you would in the west in similar circumstance). But if you are in love, truly in love that is, then culture will be the least of your worries. For the cultural issues will work themselves out in the end as long as the relationship is NOT based upon money but rather on affection. If the former... then all will be lost really quickly as soon as the money is not forthcoming with ease. If the latter... then there will be times when the different cultures and/or their 'demands' will bump heads. But such is life.

The important thing to remember is that it is all an adventure! So enjoy it all.

[krisb]

Was it a Northern Irish bar or a South Irish bar?

Makes a huge difference in case you never knew.

[Alwyn]

Fantastic, you want the family to accept your culture and throw your toys out of the pram because they would rather go and eat than go into an Irish pub? So... your culture is the pub, full stop. Wow. You're in Thailand with a Buddhist wife and family, how about you go to the Wat, with the family? How about you accept not everybody's temple is the pub. The fact you got offended amazes me, not everybody is a pisshead, why didn't you take them to MK? The comment about the brother - a joke. You wanted him to be your friend but now he can't be because he stayed with his mother rather than go into a pub with you? Good job you're not too shallow then... Sounds to me like the family has had a narrow escape and they and your wife, would be better to jog on and leave you to your pub culture.

[Grindting]

What a weird experiment.

Good you won't be giving some random farmers a free house (of which they won't be grateful for anyway)

But an Irish pub, is that really all you can muster to demonstrate your culture?

If you were offended by these thai villagers behaviour and lack of gratitude etc, you need to think about marrying a western girl.

[a6patch]

Clearly true communication/love/and understanding have completely escaped this situation...

[BuddhistVirus]

I think you were just looking for an excuse.

If it were not the pub stuff this time around, there could have been some other bizarre reason later along the road...

[Aldebaran1981]

Hard to teach Thais to accept new cultures.

Most have deep set thai cultures for generations

I would step away from the marriage as the family might cause you problems in the future.

Pierre, you not only marry the girl, but her whole family.

In some cases, you need to feed the whole family as well!

[Aldebaran1981]

Fantastic, you want the family to accept your culture and throw your toys out of the pram because they would rather go and eat than go into an Irish pub? So... your culture is the pub, full stop. Wow. You're in Thailand with a Buddhist wife and family, how about you go to the Wat, with the family? How about you accept not everybody's temple is the pub. The fact you got offended amazes me, not everybody is a pisshead, why didn't you take them to MK? The comment about the brother - a joke. You wanted him to be your friend but now he can't be because he stayed with his mother rather than go into a pub with you? Good job you're not too shallow then... Sounds to me like the family has had a narrow escape and they and your wife, would be better to jog on and leave you to your pub culture.

MK! Yes!

Why do they love eating at MK so much. The soup is bland and the variety is the same as any other steamboat joint.

[Alwyn]

Fantastic, you want the family to accept your culture and throw your toys out of the pram because they would rather go and eat than go into an Irish pub? So... your culture is the pub, full stop. Wow. You're in Thailand with a Buddhist wife and family, how about you go to the Wat, with the family? How about you accept not everybody's temple is the pub. The fact you got offended amazes me, not everybody is a pisshead, why didn't you take them to MK? The comment about the brother - a joke. You wanted him to be your friend but now he can't be because he stayed with his mother rather than go into a pub with you? Good job you're not too shallow then... Sounds to me like the family has had a narrow escape and they and your wife, would be better to jog on and leave you to your pub culture.

MK! Yes!

Why do they love eating at MK so much. The soup is bland and the variety is the same as any other steamboat joint.

I wish I knew! It's exactly as you say, bland (and not cheap either) but the Thais adore it. To be honest, I think the OP was at it, having a laugh, nobody could be that dim in reality. so nice one, I bit!!

[Berkshire]

I think you were just looking for an excuse.

If it were not the pub stuff this time around, there could have been some other bizarre reason later along the road...

Agree. This thread has nothing to do with accepting cultures. It's about the OP trying to weasel out of paying for the house. It's clear that this is a relationship that will not end well.

[dao16]

With this approach, this will be the first in a long list of problems.

Especially if they are countryside Thais, they will have a lot of reasons not to go (in their minds) including A)"What would I say to all of these foreigners? I don't speak English," "I don't know any of this weird stuff on the menu..what if I don't know how to eat this stuff and I look weird in front of all these people?" and C) "I bet these foreign places are all expensive, which is what everyone says, and I really should just grab a regular meal for a regular person like me."

Honestly, my wife and I have had talks like this with people who were thinking about going into a foreign place but were anxious about it. That said, several of the younger in-laws (20s or early 30s) have no problem trying out foreign food, even though they don't speak English well. The older family members? Forget about it. It doesn't even mean they don't like it (although it may), but people tend to "know their place" here and won't want to put themselves in places that seem meant for other people.

I would skip the marriage and go to the resorts and Irish pubs alone.

[anon467367354]

You put them in a very difficult position. Most Thai that I know have no interest in anything

that is not Thai. Most won't even try peanut butter.

You wanted them to sit in a bar with a bunch of farang? What could be more degrading?

I can't help to wonder how much you know about their culture, personally I would never suggest

bringing "villagers" to a bar like that much less any bar. Best to have found a raan ahaan where

they would be comfortable and you could have ordered your beer.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Taking your gfs family to a bar, probably filled with old white guys with their younger Thai prozzies, was never going to be a good idea.

Made them think too much about you and their daughter.

[BadBouy]

I am totally interested in my wifes family and their culture. They are totally uninterseted in my family and culture. We are never-the-less all very happy. The equation looks somethong like this... TC>MC.

2

OP = MC

[kandi]

The OP made a mistake by inviting them into an Irish pub and shouldn't be surprised about the reaction.

But I understand the problem that lies underneath (or at least what the OP makes it for): In a crosscultural marriage between a foreigner and a Thai, both parts should respect their cultures equally. But I think most women, especially the one coming from a more conservative Isaan background, only accept their culture.

I've read it so often in profiles in dating websites: "I want my future husband to understand Thai culture." And "understand" means here: accepting it without any compromise. That the other part maybe also has a culture that he's used to and maybe even misses does't matter in her eyes.

Personally, if I'd never be together with someone that doesn't equally respect my culture. I'm not saying I want my girlfriend to eat what I eat, to do what I do or to like what I like. I just want her to accept that sometimes there are things I do or don't do because it's part of my culture.