Acceptance of each others cultures

[keithkarmann]

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Wooow you have a problem. What is this about drinking. Are you crazy? Many Thais think many farangs are alcohlics. I know many Thais refuse to go to a bar. Your cultural belief - your my friend if we drink together - is way back in the 50 or 60s. Am I wrong on this? Your in Thailand.
Your GF will toto teach you thai culture. she does not want to know yours too much. repeat: your in thailand.
but let me tell you - the drinking thing is not a cultural thing. they are telliing their daughter this guy is wrong. she is fighting back. Oh, by the way, you paying for it all shows me you think your superior over them. your nothing but same-same. Nice to pay for it all - good. Are you now saying they owe you something for that. That is wrong. You are trying to buy them. you are trying to buy friendship. You freely paid. they freely received. no obligation on there part for anything.

It was part payment for them letting me sleep with their daughter for the past two years and no I do not regret paying for everything as they have nothing. If you read one of my previous messages I booked the villa for me and my girlfriend and she asked if her family could come with us and I had no hesitation in saying yes but I guess I knew things would not go too smoothly. I have been teaching my girlfriend the Western ways I am used to but they are straight from the lost village. I do not class myself superior to anyone, I dislike all the treatment the so-called Thai V.I.P.'s get as they are the ones who think they are superior to the lower classes and I try and discourage Thais bowing when walking in front of me. If some of the Thais have to work in bars then that is not a problem for me as we in the Western World have had a lot more chances than they have and I do not look down on bar girls.I may gone on a little but I just wanted to say that you are wrong about me thinking I am superior. I do not think anyone is superior or inferior to me.

[keithkarmann]

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. In short I have cancelled the house build but I have said I will still marry my girlfriend but without any dowry and without the family involved in any way. She has agreed.

she agreed?? watch out !!

Just a village wedding but not her village

[herb59]

to go in a bar is a culture?

[khunPer]

»Anyone had similar problems. I am in the right or not as my girlfriend was looking forward to a wedding with family involvement.«

I think it’s a combination of “gran jai” (modesty, it’s too much) and a feeling of, “we do not belong there”. We Westerners can have the same feeling; if one use to mingle with working class and suddenly is asked to walk into a 5-starr something or fine gentlemen’s club (may not allow you inside) or just a place with a total different culture – we may have the feeling of not belonging there, feeling uncomfortable. Saying that you and GF can go inside, and they do something else, is IMHO both a polite suggestion and they may feel that they got much more value and joy for the money offered as drink by instead walking to the market to find something to eat, which is very important and joy able for Thais.

I have experienced the same as you with my GF’s family. First time when we took them shopping in Big C (I would even believe that was their first time in a big shopping mall or super market), we offered ice cream at Swendsen’s after the shopping, something we enjoy a lot. My GF’s mum she saw the ice cream menu she got so angry and walked out. I must admit I got little upset at that time, kindly offering an enjoyable time shopping – however, she could not accept someone pay a whole days salary or more for a an ice cream. Thinking back it is very understandable, because a whole day’s hard work in the farm fields at that time, some years ago, where 120 baht – I has the same feeling from working hard and when seeing “rich” people being able to spoil what was similar to “my whole days salary” for “nothing important”...

When taking my GF’s family down south for a little holiday, they just wished to relax in the room and watch TV – no way to get them out to see something or a dinner invitation, that would be both waste of money and not their village-life-style. Even inviting them to a local restaurant up Isaan in the town near the village was impossible.

However time has changed that. Today my GF’s family accept and understand that we live a different life from the village life-style – their hard work with their farm has also moved them up – they even now appreciate to dine out in the town near the village and even kindly invite us. And when coming down south for same days relaxing, they also accept dining out – as long as we go to local places where they fit in and have a good time – it’s just like when we Westerners sometime are longing for dining in a good steak-restaurant with tablecloth and real service.

OP, I think it’s a clash of cultural conflict. I have several examples where I got irritated over Thai behavior, but that was because I did not know enough about the local culture and how to behave – both sides need to “bend” a little, when mixing culture – and partly also because the locals, including my GF, took it for granted and did not think about gently preparing me of it. When the book “Thailand Fever” was published I learned a lot – if the book had been available before that could have saved me from many irritating moments – and my GF also learned a lot (more) about Westerners, as the book is written in both English and Thai. I recommend that anyone who wishes to live with a Thai partner – or just settle here for longer time – reading that book, it’s a “must”, and it may help preventing many a problem. You can find more information at www.thailandfever.com

And about marriage, it’s my impression that the village ceremony and party is more important than anything else...

Wish you good luck with future and marriage…

[keithkarmann]

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I think you were just looking for an excuse.

If it were not the pub stuff this time around, there could have been some other bizarre reason later along the road...

Agree. This thread has nothing to do with accepting cultures. It's about the OP trying to weasel out of paying for the house. It's clear that this is a relationship that will not end well.

I totally agree with you but how many relationships end well. And I do not want to be one of the many farangs who have lost a lot of money buying houses and cars for their Thai partners and losing the lot.My losses if the relationship breaks down will be very limited

[keithkarmann]

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Fantastic, you want the family to accept your culture and throw your toys out of the pram because they would rather go and eat than go into an Irish pub? So... your culture is the pub, full stop. Wow. You're in Thailand with a Buddhist wife and family, how about you go to the Wat, with the family? How about you accept not everybody's temple is the pub. The fact you got offended amazes me, not everybody is a pisshead, why didn't you take them to MK? The comment about the brother - a joke. You wanted him to be your friend but now he can't be because he stayed with his mother rather than go into a pub with you? Good job you're not too shallow then... Sounds to me like the family has had a narrow escape and they and your wife, would be better to jog on and leave you to your pub culture.

I think MK is overated and I always tell my girlfriend we are not joined at the hips and if either of us want to end the relationship then we are free to do so. I pay her an allowance but she is not my slave, she has offered to go out to work but I told her if she is happy with the relationship then there is no need for her to work

[adamgordon]

Mate they are Thai people. Going to a bar is not their thing. Just relax. If u can't accept their way you are going to have a very hard time of it. I wish u well...

[keithkarmann]

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From an historical perspective, westerners have always expected other, and indigenous, peoples to accept their ways immediately and without question, usually without understanding there's first in the least. Most times when this didn't happen the indigenous culture was villainized, attacked and often exterminated.

Perhaps, this Thai family isn't the drinking type of family, that certainly doesn't mean they do not have value.

Seems to me that you are the one that has failed to accept their culture, at least to the degree that you accept them being different than you expected them to be, or felt they should be.

People and things are rarely the way we imagine them to be, but this takes decades for most of us Westerners to come to understand.

To me this sounds like your ego was wounded and you didn't react to that well, your statement in the comments about the bulge in your pocket goes a long way to confirm this. Most Eastern beliefs tend to strive to overcome and quit the ego, as does the Judaic Qabala. To me this seems like one of their better ideas.

Maybe you should have spent your time focused on them and what they wanted to see, rather than what you wanted to show them. Maybe it was something they didn't want to see.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, for whatever that is wort to ya.

I spent the whole week in Hua Hin taking my girlfriend and her family wherever they wanted to go. I have taken my girlfriend to the UK , Hong Kong and Vietnam and I just thought it would be good for her family to join us and have a break, which would be good for them all to be together. I did not ask for much in return.

[Alwyn]

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Fantastic, you want the family to accept your culture and throw your toys out of the pram because they would rather go and eat than go into an Irish pub? So... your culture is the pub, full stop. Wow. You're in Thailand with a Buddhist wife and family, how about you go to the Wat, with the family? How about you accept not everybody's temple is the pub. The fact you got offended amazes me, not everybody is a pisshead, why didn't you take them to MK? The comment about the brother - a joke. You wanted him to be your friend but now he can't be because he stayed with his mother rather than go into a pub with you? Good job you're not too shallow then... Sounds to me like the family has had a narrow escape and they and your wife, would be better to jog on and leave you to your pub culture.

I think MK is overated and I always tell my girlfriend we are not joined at the hips and if either of us want to end the relationship then we are free to do so. I pay her an allowance but she is not my slave, she has offered to go out to work but I told her if she is happy with the relationship then there is no need for her to work

I've never heard anybody except Thais who rate MK as anything except, bland and overpriced! Thais love it though for some reason. Good for you that you're both not joined at the hips and ending a relationship is certainly a thing of free will! If you want to give your girlfriend/fiancée an allowance that's your choice and nobody else's business. I do a similar thing and my wife works to keep her from vegging out, also gives her company through the day etc etc. But - what about your choice to blank the family, get married and not pay a dowry all based on the family not wanting a a drink in an Irish pub? (btw, how many other Thai families - mother, siblings etc have you ever seen in an Irish bar?) Or was it a massive wind-up? If it was, you got me biting!

[kinmaew]

They are very rude and it does not surprise me at all. You did the right thing. If your girl is ok then this should be fine if you keep away from them and never give them any money.

[keithkarmann]

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Fantastic, you want the family to accept your culture and throw your toys out of the pram because they would rather go and eat than go into an Irish pub? So... your culture is the pub, full stop. Wow. You're in Thailand with a Buddhist wife and family, how about you go to the Wat, with the family? How about you accept not everybody's temple is the pub. The fact you got offended amazes me, not everybody is a pisshead, why didn't you take them to MK? The comment about the brother - a joke. You wanted him to be your friend but now he can't be because he stayed with his mother rather than go into a pub with you? Good job you're not too shallow then... Sounds to me like the family has had a narrow escape and they and your wife, would be better to jog on and leave you to your pub culture.

I think MK is overated and I always tell my girlfriend we are not joined at the hips and if either of us want to end the relationship then we are free to do so. I pay her an allowance but she is not my slave, she has offered to go out to work but I told her if she is happy with the relationship then there is no need for her to work

I've never heard anybody except Thais who rate MK as anything except, bland and overpriced! Thais love it though for some reason. Good for you that you're both not joined at the hips and ending a relationship is certainly a thing of free will! If you want to give your girlfriend/fiancée an allowance that's your choice and nobody else's business. I do a similar thing and my wife works to keep her from vegging out, also gives her company through the day etc etc. But - what about your choice to blank the family, get married and not pay a dowry all based on the family not wanting a a drink in an Irish pub? (btw, how many other Thai families - mother, siblings etc have you ever seen in an Irish bar?) Or was it a massive wind-up? If it was, you got me biting!

Thanks for your input, I do strongly disagree with paying a dowry and the house build was a different way of doing it which my girlfriend told me the family accepted that.Sure I do regret backing out of the house build and at the back of my mind you do have to wonder why with our age differences she stays with me. But having said that with me saying there will be no house and no dowry she says she will still stay with me. Maybe because I am a decent guy and I treat her right compared to what her ex boyfriend treated her. If you knew the family as I do you would probably object to paying a dowry when you see how lazy the father and brother are. There is usually some family pressure for the girl to bring the money in and they know without my money coming into the family they would be struggling financially.Hopefully our relationship is just more than money for sex, but when you look at it from the parents view their young daughter is living with someone older than her father basically for money and they condone this but they would not come into a bar where there may or may not have been girls selling their selves.

[a6patch]

You said it yourself. You are older than her father. That isn't Thai culture. That's prostitution. Nothing wrong with it. It is what it is. But getting offended because the family doesn't want to socialize is sort of just punishing yourself for no reason.

[Alwyn]

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Fantastic, you want the family to accept your culture and throw your toys out of the pram because they would rather go and eat than go into an Irish pub? So... your culture is the pub, full stop. Wow. You're in Thailand with a Buddhist wife and family, how about you go to the Wat, with the family? How about you accept not everybody's temple is the pub. The fact you got offended amazes me, not everybody is a pisshead, why didn't you take them to MK? The comment about the brother - a joke. You wanted him to be your friend but now he can't be because he stayed with his mother rather than go into a pub with you? Good job you're not too shallow then... Sounds to me like the family has had a narrow escape and they and your wife, would be better to jog on and leave you to your pub culture.

I think MK is overated and I always tell my girlfriend we are not joined at the hips and if either of us want to end the relationship then we are free to do so. I pay her an allowance but she is not my slave, she has offered to go out to work but I told her if she is happy with the relationship then there is no need for her to work

I've never heard anybody except Thais who rate MK as anything except, bland and overpriced! Thais love it though for some reason. Good for you that you're both not joined at the hips and ending a relationship is certainly a thing of free will! If you want to give your girlfriend/fiancée an allowance that's your choice and nobody else's business. I do a similar thing and my wife works to keep her from vegging out, also gives her company through the day etc etc. But - what about your choice to blank the family, get married and not pay a dowry all based on the family not wanting a a drink in an Irish pub? (btw, how many other Thai families - mother, siblings etc have you ever seen in an Irish bar?) Or was it a massive wind-up? If it was, you got me biting!

Thanks for your input, I do strongly disagree with paying a dowry and the house build was a different way of doing it which my girlfriend told me the family accepted that.Sure I do regret backing out of the house build and at the back of my mind you do have to wonder why with our age differences she stays with me. But having said that with me saying there will be no house and no dowry she says she will still stay with me. Maybe because I am a decent guy and I treat her right compared to what her ex boyfriend treated her. If you knew the family as I do you would probably object to paying a dowry when you see how lazy the father and brother are. There is usually some family pressure for the girl to bring the money in and they know without my money coming into the family they would be struggling financially.Hopefully our relationship is just more than money for sex, but when you look at it from the parents view their young daughter is living with someone older than her father basically for money and they condone this but they would not come into a bar where there may or may not have been girls selling their selves.

Good luck with it all, I'm sure all will be well in the end. BTW. It's common and normal for the family to give the dowry straight back to the daughter.

[sdanielmcev]

You are older than her father? I don't care what anyone says. That's just downright creepy.

[ClutchClark]

Good on you. Let the family know who wears the trousers. I had years of being told, "This is Thailand, you must respect my culture"... There is a corner of a foreign land that is forever England. And that is my home. I will respect Thai culture but come into my home and you had better respect mine. This is about a cross cultural marriage not about forcing cultures on people. The OP just wants to show his potential family some of his culture. It is not like he is a missionary or forcing it down their throats.

If she loves you then she will understand. Give her the freedom to visit her family whenever she wants but make it clear you will have nothing to do with them until they start behaving in a respectful way.

Geez, if thats not "forcing it down their throats" then I don't know what is.

And we have Hispanics to move to the US and try to turn it into Little Mexico. They fly their Mexican flag instead of the US flag. They refuse to speak English. They refuse every bit of US culture.

Its very insulting. Why move to a country if you are going to snub your nose into aspect of the hosts culture?

you mug...it was there land before you stole it learn spanish ...what you think your the master race ..

"You mug"?

Thats one of my favorite old expressions!

[AYJAYDEE]

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Fantastic, you want the family to accept your culture and throw your toys out of the pram because they would rather go and eat than go into an Irish pub? So... your culture is the pub, full stop. Wow. You're in Thailand with a Buddhist wife and family, how about you go to the Wat, with the family? How about you accept not everybody's temple is the pub. The fact you got offended amazes me, not everybody is a pisshead, why didn't you take them to MK? The comment about the brother - a joke. You wanted him to be your friend but now he can't be because he stayed with his mother rather than go into a pub with you? Good job you're not too shallow then... Sounds to me like the family has had a narrow escape and they and your wife, would be better to jog on and leave you to your pub culture.

I think MK is overated and I always tell my girlfriend we are not joined at the hips and if either of us want to end the relationship then we are free to do so. I pay her an allowance but she is not my slave, she has offered to go out to work but I told her if she is happy with the relationship then there is no need for her to work

I've never heard anybody except Thais who rate MK as anything except, bland and overpriced! Thais love it though for some reason. Good for you that you're both not joined at the hips and ending a relationship is certainly a thing of free will! If you want to give your girlfriend/fiancée an allowance that's your choice and nobody else's business. I do a similar thing and my wife works to keep her from vegging out, also gives her company through the day etc etc. But - what about your choice to blank the family, get married and not pay a dowry all based on the family not wanting a a drink in an Irish pub? (btw, how many other Thai families - mother, siblings etc have you ever seen in an Irish bar?) Or was it a massive wind-up? If it was, you got me biting!

Thanks for your input, I do strongly disagree with paying a dowry and the house build was a different way of doing it which my girlfriend told me the family accepted that.Sure I do regret backing out of the house build and at the back of my mind you do have to wonder why with our age differences she stays with me. But having said that with me saying there will be no house and no dowry she says she will still stay with me. Maybe because I am a decent guy and I treat her right compared to what her ex boyfriend treated her. If you knew the family as I do you would probably object to paying a dowry when you see how lazy the father and brother are. There is usually some family pressure for the girl to bring the money in and they know without my money coming into the family they would be struggling financially.Hopefully our relationship is just more than money for sex, but when you look at it from the parents view their young daughter is living with someone older than her father basically for money and they condone this but they would not come into a bar where there may or may not have been girls selling their selves.

she wont stay long

[thailiketoo]

Geez, if thats not "forcing it down their throats" then I don't know what is.

And we have Hispanics to move to the US and try to turn it into Little Mexico. They fly their Mexican flag instead of the US flag. They refuse to speak English. They refuse every bit of US culture.

Its very insulting. Why move to a country if you are going to snub your nose into aspect of the hosts culture?

you mug...it was there land before you stole it learn spanish ...what you think your the master race ..

What tribe of native American Indians spoke Spanish? Answer? None. The Spanish stole the land from the Indians and the Texans stole the land from the Spanish. It's not so bad stealing stuff from the guy who stole it (in my opinion) Many parts of America were stolen by five different countries before the Americans stole it. The Brits stole lt from the Indians and the French stole if from the Brits and the Spanish and then the Republic of Texas and then the Confederate States of America and then......... I'm just saying there were many different countries stealing stuff form all the Indians in North America and none of the Indians spoke Spanish until they were forced to learn by the Spanish.

so if others steal you think its okay if you steal? typical!

My point was that American Indians don't speak Spanish. For the other, the Brits and Dutch stole land from the American Indians and the French stole it from the Brits and the Brits stole it back and after a few generations of doing this the British/French Americans stole it again. While I feel sorry for the American Indians (not too sorry for the ones who own the casinos) I feel little sympathy for the British and French or Dutch. Or the Swedes and Finns. Yes the Swedes stole land from the American Indians too. Swedish West India Company. Now you probably know a lot of stuff you didn't know before but all those people didn't accept the culture of the American Indians very well.

[sdanielmcev]

He didn't say, nor imply stealing was OK.

[AYJAYDEE]

He didn't say, nor imply stealing was OK.

try again!

"It's not so bad stealing stuff from the guy who stole it (in my opinion) "

[AYJAYDEE]

My point was that American Indians don't speak Spanish. For the other, the Brits and Dutch stole land from the American Indians and the French stole it from the Brits and the Brits stole it back and after a few generations of doing this the British/French Americans stole it again. While I feel sorry for the American Indians (not too sorry for the ones who own the casinos) I feel little sympathy for the British and French or Dutch. Or the Swedes and Finns. Yes the Swedes stole land from the American Indians too. Swedish West India Company. Now you probably know a lot of stuff you didn't know before but all those people didn't accept the culture of the American Indians very well.

the french stole it from the brits?

[Berkshire]

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I think you were just looking for an excuse.

If it were not the pub stuff this time around, there could have been some other bizarre reason later along the road...

Agree. This thread has nothing to do with accepting cultures. It's about the OP trying to weasel out of paying for the house. It's clear that this is a relationship that will not end well.

I totally agree with you but how many relationships end well. And I do not want to be one of the many farangs who have lost a lot of money buying houses and cars for their Thai partners and losing the lot.My losses if the relationship breaks down will be very limited

I do respect your honesty--you're protecting yourself. Understand. But the culture thing still perplexes me. Let's say your in-laws totally despise your culture, and I mean hate it to the core. Wants nothing to do with it and tells you so. Yet, they agree to go have a free dinner with you in the farang restaurant. Is that what you call "accepting of another's culture?"

[canuckamuck]

Well this thread is well off topic and mercifully so.

Take a rural village family to an Irish pub and then get upset because they won't go in? Do you have any idea how embarrassing it would have been for them to be in there. Your intentions may have been good, but you can't expect other cultures to share your preconceptions and values. They didn't want to go in there you should accept that as their right.

But good for you to cancel the investments, you rent a girl off of them, I don't think it is necessary for you to build them houses too. You're the client.

Edited October 2, 2014 by canuckamuck

[CharlieH]

Off topic removed

[benalibina]

Taking your gfs family to a bar, probably filled with old white guys with their younger Thai prozzies, was never going to be a good idea.

Made them think too much about you and their daughter.

Realitycheck is not always nice.....

[sdanielmcev]

He didn't say, nor imply stealing was OK.

try again!

"It's not so bad stealing stuff from the guy who stole it (in my opinion) "

Huh???

[AYJAYDEE]

He didn't say, nor imply stealing was OK.

try again!

"It's not so bad stealing stuff from the guy who stole it (in my opinion) "

Huh???

excellent point

[keithkarmann]

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Taking your gfs family to a bar, probably filled with old white guys with their younger Thai prozzies, was never going to be a good idea.
Made them think too much about you and their daughter.

Realitycheck is not always nice.....

Taking your gfs family to a bar, probably filled with old white guys with their younger Thai prozzies, was never going to be a good idea.
Made them think too much about you and their daughter.

You have a point but if it bothers them that much then they should stop taking money off her (is that living off immoral earnings) which is worse.

[Sigurris]

In my seven years here I have been taken to Temples where I was expected to bow to deities I have no belief in, partake in ceremonies that are not of my religion. I have been taken to villages and expected to eat food that is totally alien to my culture, sleep on floors, use unsanitary toilets and sit around being totally ignored. I have bought whiskey and food for people who drank and ate it then walked away without so much as a glance in my direction. I did this all with a smile, never complaining. All for the sake of not offending another persons culture.

What have I acheived? Nothing except a realisation that when push comes to shove the Brit is a very polite (by western standards) person. But after a while I also realised that whatever I did I would not change these peoples feelings or attitude to me. When, after two years, your partners mother still refers to you as the farang you know things ain't gonna change.

So now I do none of the above. If my current gf wants to go to the temple she goes alone. If we are out on a trip and a temple visit is part of it I might have a look around but generally just wait outside. I don't do village visits and I choose what goes in my mouth. I have explained why and never disrespect her religion or family I just choose not to visit them. So I am totally with the OP on this.

[keithkarmann]

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In my seven years here I have been taken to Temples where I was expected to bow to deities I have no belief in, partake in ceremonies that are not of my religion. I have been taken to villages and expected to eat food that is totally alien to my culture, sleep on floors, use unsanitary toilets and sit around being totally ignored. I have bought whiskey and food for people who drank and ate it then walked away without so much as a glance in my direction. I did this all with a smile, never complaining. All for the sake of not offending another persons culture.

What have I acheived? Nothing except a realisation that when push comes to shove the Brit is a very polite (by western standards) person. But after a while I also realised that whatever I did I would not change these peoples feelings or attitude to me. When, after two years, your partners mother still refers to you as the farang you know things ain't gonna change.

So now I do none of the above. If my current gf wants to go to the temple she goes alone. If we are out on a trip and a temple visit is part of it I might have a look around but generally just wait outside. I don't do village visits and I choose what goes in my mouth. I have explained why and never disrespect her religion or family I just choose not to visit them. So I am totally with the OP on this.

Thanks for your input, I feel exactly the same, I am sure they still call me falang and it would be nice to hear them call me by my real name. I have gone as far as I can in trying to accept the Thai culture. I now realize their is no way they are going to change. From now on if our relationship is to carry on it will done with my culture. I saw some friends last night who got married last week, he is Canadian and she is Thai and she said their was no family at the wedding and no dowry paid because they loved each other. If I want to help the family financially it will be on my terms but it will not be cash but in the form of gifts of things which I know they need.

[AYJAYDEE]

In my seven years here I have been taken to Temples where I was expected to bow to deities I have no belief in, partake in ceremonies that are not of my religion. I have been taken to villages and expected to eat food that is totally alien to my culture, sleep on floors, use unsanitary toilets and sit around being totally ignored. I have bought whiskey and food for people who drank and ate it then walked away without so much as a glance in my direction. I did this all with a smile, never complaining. All for the sake of not offending another persons culture.

What have I acheived? Nothing except a realisation that when push comes to shove the Brit is a very polite (by western standards) person. But after a while I also realised that whatever I did I would not change these peoples feelings or attitude to me. When, after two years, your partners mother still refers to you as the farang you know things ain't gonna change.

So now I do none of the above. If my current gf wants to go to the temple she goes alone. If we are out on a trip and a temple visit is part of it I might have a look around but generally just wait outside. I don't do village visits and I choose what goes in my mouth. I have explained why and never disrespect her religion or family I just choose not to visit them. So I am totally with the OP on this.

what DEITIES were these you bowed to? my mother in law has never called me anything but my name. and folks always say thank you when i pay for a meal. i wonder what it is about you?