Riverside Condos 2014

[mberbae]

To Thai basher...the status of the Sinking Fund IS now clear. I am just not at liberty to give the numbers in the Forum. But if you have the time, stop by at the JPM office inside the lobby - and you will be able to see the amount ( provided you are a condo owner, of course ).

To Chicog - stop by at the front desk lobby to see what is available for rent or sale. I believe the Commission rates are very minimal.

To Beau Thai - there will be a White Board at the next meeting with 4 - 5 = -1 on it ( example only ). If anyone can show that this is a " surplus " ...they will be invited to draw their own chart to show how RC has a surplus ( NOT using the Sinking Fund of course, but Only the Common Area or, Operating Fund ).

It is THIS fund ( Operating ) that needs to be raised - in order to meet expenses.

[mberbae]

Keep in Mind that www.chiangmairiversidecondo.com is NOT an official site by the Riverside Condominiums - but is solely a PRIVATE enterprise.

The Riverside Condominium Official website and FB page will be up and running in the next week or two. They will use the words " Official Website " to differentiate between the two.

[mberbae]

I have friends at Hillside 3 - 4 and 9....also at River Ping Condos and Chiang Mai Floral. All have issues. One needs to find their own niche and make their home there. The most reputable Realty Company I know of is Ping Properties www.ping-property.com/ ....Noi is the owner. BTW , Never put your deposit....or receive a deposit that 1st goes into the account of the Realtor. "Some" say this is the norm in Thailand. It's Not. If the deal falls through , the Realtor then keeps the deposit and the owner is out of luck.

[beserious]

I would like to open this post by reiterating a popular adage, “In Thailand, nothing is as it appears”. This may very well be the case if you do not look at all the information surrounding this matter and evaluate it with an open mind. I shall refer to the current Riverside Condo management as “The Team” in the remainder of my post as it is quite obvious the new and old members alike are united in a very unethical position of power.

The Team was ousted some time ago by vote at almost a 100% ratio. This was due to more than 10 years of unethical actions and poor decision making. When The Team was removed from management oversight it cost them a lot of money and power and have since made a power grab by any means necessary to regain their prior positions.

Under the leadership of a Dutch national, a new Manager was voted in some years ago. This despite strong opposition of the then committee. In fact, because of the misconduct, the entire committee resigned. This is not even the first time this individual has been involved in such dubious affairs. A quick review on Thaivisa forum should provide backup to my claims.

The residents, fed up with the tactics and poor management of The Team finally took action. They filed a formal complaint with the police, who immediately seized the company computers and other written documentation. The evidence, bolstered by statements to the police by the resident led to the firing of some members and the filing of additional lawsuits against The Team.

During the course of the investigation the police summoned the fired staff in an attempt to obtain passwords to the confiscated computer. The entire staff refused to cooperate with the police and the passwords have never been recovered, thus stalling the police investigation. Furthermore, the fired staff can be seen in the offices again.

The steps The Team following under the leadership of the previous mentioned, Dutch national, to grab power one more time are nothing short of disgraceful. The loopholes at the tactics implemented are tasteless and unethical by any standards.

So again, here we are, The Team has manipulated the system to their benefit and seized operation control of the association. This occurred only after the General Meeting votes disappeared and key video sequences of the meeting mysteriously have been erased. This strange event is the only possible avenue for The Team to take control once again. After a poll of the voters, it was apparent The Team would have lost handily, and the video showed the negative opinion of all parties to having The Team regain control.

Further into the investigation the police summoned the Land Office Officer, responsible for the registration of the meeting in which power was illegitimately seized, to give a statement of his knowledge. This Officer never showed up or responded to the police summons. The documentation that is in police possession shows clear irregularities in dates and chronological order of events. The investigation also revealed that this registration was not performed with official notification of the Land Office Superiors. Huge questions remain on how this could have occurred and why the case Officer refused to speak to police, he could not possibly explain the irregularities.

Once in power, The Team immediately dismissed the lawsuits the former management team had filed against them. How this conflict of interest could be allowed I have no idea or reasoning. The Team claims publically, over and over, they have done nothing wrong, but yet go to extreme lengths to ensure the proof is not allowed to be presented. If the information that is being suppressed would clear their name, why would they not want it presented?

There are many instances of mismanagement and unethical practices. The first is the repainting of the building that was performed. The paint began failing and falling from the surface after only 3 months. Other areas were never painted at all, just simply forgotten. For some unknown reason, the painters were never called back to perform warranty services for the defective workmanship. It is suspected that money was exchanged to The Team in exchange for remaining quiet. Then there is the website "www.crcjp.com"; Chiang Mai Riverside Condo Juristic Person. So far over 200,000 Baht has been spent for it and it remains unusable, it simply doesn’t work.. To make it worse, The Team, doesn’t even have the password to gain access, so it cannot be repaired. These are just two examples of the questionable use of the residents money, where is it going? To whose pockets?

Even the Sinking Fund has been squandered, spent needlessly by The Team. The association is now bankrupt and operating at a deficit but The Team just keeps on spending on lining the pockets of themselves and their associates under the guise of bonuses voted to themselves for good performance. The lack of ethics and wreckless spending have left the residents with nope hope and no direction to take. The residents now are left to just pay additional double fees with no recourse. Another example of this is while the corridors have not been painted in 10 years the pool, which was in good condition is now being renovated. These illogical mistakes are done over and over again.

Some owners refuse to pay their condo fees for many years, will you attempt to seize their condos and then sell them to your members at huge discounts as you did in the past? Those condos should go the the LED, Land Execution Department, and be auctioned so everyone would have the opportunity to benefit.

Your actions is what you will be judged on, not the pleasing words you speak, they appear to be two completely different things. If you are serious about the complex you would never have allowed some members of The Team back in, nor would you have dismissed the lawsuits against the very team members you reinstated.

[beau thai]

BeSerious first post, newbie.

From my standpoint your quoted adage 'In Thailand, nothing is as it appears' could definitely be applied to your post.

Your penultimate 2 points seem to be addressed to those you refer to as 'The Team'. I am unclear what you seek to achieve 'talking' to them on ThaiVisa rather than attending the Meeting on Thursday that I see notices about and that you probably received an invitation to?

Your rant covers events over 10 years and reads to me as though you believe there have only been 2 'Teams' in that time. Not so. There have been recent elections (not rigged as you suggest) and new members were elected and prior to that there have been many 'teams'. Indeed you could, and maybe, should have stood for election. I dont think it is too late to seek membership.

As for the fee going up to 20psm, I thought that was going to the vote this week. Go to the meeting speak up, and vote against.

More useful than bitching here sure[y??

My reading of the financials doesnt tally with your assertion that the condo is bankrupt- on the contrary.

I had not noticed that the corridors need painting-certainly not on my floor.But if the 20 year old pump equipment for the pool needs replacing and the pool leaks, then I expect the committee to fix it.

I have nothing to do with the committee, and would not have, because of people like you. It is impossible to please all of the people all of the time in a group of 10 but Riverside has over 500 condo's. Address the JP ( an outside company on site), address committee members in private or at a meeting ( I understand that all committee meetings are open), or take the floor at the meeting this week.

But writing anonymously on Thaivisa ?? I wonder what your agenda is? What are you hoping to achieve if anything?

[NancyL]

The previous two posts are a good example of why I will never own a condo here. Much better find a place I like, sign a multi-year lease, sink a little money into renovations, knowing I'll be there for a while than to sink all that emotional capital into ownership and a committee. My goodness, people have lost their visas and emotional health over stuff like this.

Edited October 21, 2014 by NancyL

[neilrob]

I know nothing about the situation at Riverside, but reading Beserious' post it is clearly ranting---he or she understands little about how condos are run here. If the owners are willing to take action, then condos WILL be run well. I disagree with Nancy---the condo she actually lives in is a good example of one where the owners took control and it is well run. Look for a well run condo and it makes every sense to buy a condo here. A poorly run condo, not under the control of the owners, is a problem everywhere, but this is true wherever---my experience is that the same sort of problems can and do occur in the US or the UK. So use due diligence before buying.

[northernjohn]

BeSerious first post, newbie.

From my standpoint your quoted adage 'In Thailand, nothing is as it appears' could definitely be applied to your post.

Your penultimate 2 points seem to be addressed to those you refer to as 'The Team'. I am unclear what you seek to achieve 'talking' to them on ThaiVisa rather than attending the Meeting on Thursday that I see notices about and that you probably received an invitation to?

Your rant covers events over 10 years and reads to me as though you believe there have only been 2 'Teams' in that time. Not so. There have been recent elections (not rigged as you suggest) and new members were elected and prior to that there have been many 'teams'. Indeed you could, and maybe, should have stood for election. I dont think it is too late to seek membership.

As for the fee going up to 20psm, I thought that was going to the vote this week. Go to the meeting speak up, and vote against.

More useful than bitching here sure[y??

My reading of the financials doesnt tally with your assertion that the condo is bankrupt- on the contrary.

I had not noticed that the corridors need painting-certainly not on my floor.But if the 20 year old pump equipment for the pool needs replacing and the pool leaks, then I expect the committee to fix it.

I have nothing to do with the committee, and would not have, because of people like you. It is impossible to please all of the people all of the time in a group of 10 but Riverside has over 500 condo's. Address the JP ( an outside company on site), address committee members in private or at a meeting ( I understand that all committee meetings are open), or take the floor at the meeting this week.

But writing anonymously on Thaivisa ?? I wonder what your agenda is? What are you hoping to achieve if anything?

I can't imagine what it would be like with as many units as they have there. I served for 5 years as treasure on the Strata council where I lived in Canada. We only had 24 units and Probably about 75% paid there monthly fees. The others I had to chase and 2 or 3 got to the point where we would have to get a bill collector on them. Only 4 of us would get involved and I as the treasure had to do most of the work and listen to the complaints by the people who just complained nothing else.

[JulieM]

The previous two posts are a good example of why I will never own a condo here. Much better find a place I like, sign a multi-year lease, sink a little money into renovations, knowing I'll be there for a while than to sink all that emotional capital into ownership and a committee. My goodness, people have lost their visas and emotional health over stuff like this.

I rented a house here from 2000-2008. Big mistake. I bought a place in 2008. Best decision I ever made. I live rent free and my property goes up in value over time.

[mikey88]

I'm on the management committee of my condo and I've owned condos in other very large complexes. The point I'd make is that understanding the actual state of finances and then relating that to the possible upcoming necessary sinking fund expenditures is vital for all owner and potential owners.

I wouldn't buy any condo property nowadays unless I personally inspected the whole building with an engineer and then received and read his written report.

Most owners are blissfully unaware of the condition of their roof or the cancer in their concrete or the age of their lifts or the suitability of the buildings foundations or the leaks in their pool etc...

Personally I think a prudent reserve is held back for emergency and then the bulk of the annual sinking fund contributions should be spent.....fixing things.

[beau thai]

The previous two posts are a good example of why I will never own a condo here. Much better find a place I like, sign a multi-year lease, sink a little money into renovations, knowing I'll be there for a while than to sink all that emotional capital into ownership and a committee. My goodness, people have lost their visas and emotional health over stuff like this.

Nancy, I understand your sentiment and I understand many people are nervous about buying here for many reasons. (Personally I hate paying rent but that is just me)

But I am interested, you sink money into a property owned by someone else, and I wonder how many weeks notice the owner has to give you to quit your multi-year tenancy??

Or maybe you have to rely on the owner's goodwill and words?? Was it Sam Goldwyn who famously said 'A verbal contract isnt worth the paper it's written on'? Or maybe you have a lengthy written notice?

[mesquite]

The previous two posts are a good example of why I will never own a condo here. Much better find a place I like, sign a multi-year lease, sink a little money into renovations, knowing I'll be there for a while than to sink all that emotional capital into ownership and a committee. My goodness, people have lost their visas and emotional health over stuff like this.

Nancy, I understand your sentiment and I understand many people are nervous about buying here for many reasons. (Personally I hate paying rent but that is just me)

But I am interested, you sink money into a property owned by someone else, and I wonder how many weeks notice the owner has to give you to quit your multi-year tenancy??

Or maybe you have to rely on the owner's goodwill and words?? Was it Sam Goldwyn who famously said 'A verbal contract isnt worth the paper it's written on'? Or maybe you have a lengthy written notice?

What's the owner going to do? Find another tenant? Doubtful, especially one that takes care of the unit and pays the rent on time, which is presumably what NancyL does.

I've owned and rented in both landlords' and renters' markets, and renting during a renters' market is heaven. Of course, you have to be able to afford the rent, but the landlord treats you well, very well.

It's been a renters' market for the 10+ years I've lived here in CM and it's been great.

To each their own, but when I read or hear of the goings on at these condo buildings in CM, I count my blessings that I'm not part of it.

For those who have bought condos for 2 million and then sold them later for 4, congratulations and more power to you. The same to all those farang men who have the highly-educated, hi-so, beautiful, Thai-Chinese wives/gf's who don't want a penny, just love! More power to you

Edited October 22, 2014 by mesquite

[mberbae]

Be Serious CAN"T be Serious !!!! What a distortion of the truth. Almost NOTHING in his/her post is true.

The Sinking Fund is currently Solvent ( an EGM will be held on October 30th to deal with the Common Area Fund, that pays daily operating costs. ). That fund has not been raised for over 20 years. You can imagine the levels of deterioration if this is allowed to continue. For example - We have lost some good staff due to NOT being able to pay them what another condo can. A lot of our staff were not even getting minimum wage. The new committee made sure all Riverside employees received the legal pay scale.

The new Committee as cannot Dismiss a law suit. Only the courts can do that. The Courts threw out 2 recent Criminal suits the last JPM brought against an employee. THAT employee was innocent of the charges against her. It was a Power Grab, pure and simple...by people with Real Estate Interests.

The former " TEAM " has been voted out of office. A new Committee is in place. It is a Good Committee. A transparent Committee. A Committee dedicated to the Riverside Cono owners as a Community. They are NOT self serving by any stretch of the imagination. They have only been in office for a little over a month now, give them a chance to deal with all the issues still left over from the TEAM's negligence.

I would ask you to be VERY SPECIFIC with your facts, BeSerious ...because thus far, you have only posted absolute rubbish...hearsay and innuendo.

[beau thai]

The previous two posts are a good example of why I will never own a condo here. Much better find a place I like, sign a multi-year lease, sink a little money into renovations, knowing I'll be there for a while than to sink all that emotional capital into ownership and a committee. My goodness, people have lost their visas and emotional health over stuff like this.

Nancy, I understand your sentiment and I understand many people are nervous about buying here for many reasons. (Personally I hate paying rent but that is just me)

But I am interested, you sink money into a property owned by someone else, and I wonder how many weeks notice the owner has to give you to quit your multi-year tenancy??

Or maybe you have to rely on the owner's goodwill and words?? Was it Sam Goldwyn who famously said 'A verbal contract isnt worth the paper it's written on'? Or maybe you have a lengthy written notice?

What's the owner going to do? Find another tenant? Doubtful, especially one that takes care of the unit and pays the rent on time, which is presumably what NancyL does.

I've owned and rented in both landlords' and renters' markets, and renting during a renters' market is heaven. Of course, you have to be able to afford the rent, but the landlord treats you well, very well.

It's been a renters' market for the 10+ years I've lived here in CM and it's been great.

To each their own, but when I read or hear of the goings on at these condo buildings in CM, I count my blessings that I'm not part of it.

For those who have bought condos for 2 million and then sold them later for 4, congratulations and more power to you. The same to all those farang men who have the highly-educated, hi-so, beautiful, Thai-Chinese wives/gf's who don't want a penny, just love! More power to you

Not sure why you are doubtful about a landlord finding another good tenant. That is not hard here.

And we could discuss all day whether it is a renter's or owners market - which probably indicates it is neither. There are pockets at the low end where an owner can still achieve 12% rental income (NOT net return) and capital appreciation, and pockets at the higher end where tenants can find 'cheap' rents relative to the value of the property.

But folk have personal preferences - if they feel they have made their home here, are happy with the political/market risk, and have found somewhere they are happy living, they are probably buyers. If they want the freedom of movement, feeling unconstrained, and are risk averse then they are probably renters.

In the 10+ years you have been here, a tenant paying 10k a month (for example only), has laid out 1.2 million in 10 years, and is still paying rent. On the plus side they have not had maintenance, capital risk (or even community fees to pay) and have had the freedom to move around. But they have missed the capital appreciation.

Personal choices for all , and that makes an active market - evidenced by spending a few hours at the Land Office, observing all the property changing hands.

But I would not advocate sinking money in a property someone else owns, and can turf you out of at short notice. I know of more than one case where a landlord with a long term tenant here has been reluctant to increase rents, so sold the property, took the profit, and the incoming landlord imposed a new lease which the tenant could accept - or not.

And of course whether we decide, individually, to buy or rent, we are all good at rationalizing our decisions, and finding factors to support our case!

[watcharacters]

The entire dialogue turns me off from ever wanting to buy or stay there.

Sorry, but your conversation is simply depreciating the value of your assets and I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment!

^^^^^^me thinks the exact opposite

I.M.O. i feel its refreshing that the o/p has got the balls to discuss the condos present situation on the board

and his posts have been of very good contents and straight from the hip

and its been a very good P.R. job so far ,therefore it only helps the condo in question,and gives a valuable insight to members of the pitfalls of condos in c/mai

this condo is not alone,u can count on e/s word on that..a nice afternoon to

I as well appreciate a post that is NOT drenched in smoke and mirrors BS

[Myshkin]

In my humble opinion this condo is probably in one of the best location of Chiang Mai, the rental prices are reasonable and all the units I have seen were in attractive condition and well furnished. After one year, I can really affirm that I do enjoy the place and made some good friends, and maybe also some yet undeclared ennemies.

However, following recent posts things might get ugly before they get better (or worse?) and I am glad that I'm only renting, thanks to the shrewd warnings of some long time members on this forum. It looks more and more that there are two clans fighting to grab the power, but not having a horse in the race I do not feel overly concerned, yet interested in observing how it will turn out and learn a bit more about how these issues are resolved (if ever) in Thailand.

My only concern is when is the swimming pool going to reopen? It was originally planned to be closed for maintenance from 10/5 till 10/15, then postponed until 10/21, and now delayed again till 10/31. It cannot seriously take 3 weeks to fix pool leaks. So, if anyone from the new management team could confirm there will be no further delay I will gratefully revert from a temporary grumpy renter to the self declared happiest swimming renter this side of the Mae Ping.

[Tywais]

I removed a reported post and replies to it that is potentially libelous and also privacy concerns as it is an internal notice not meant for general public.

[northernjohn]

The previous two posts are a good example of why I will never own a condo here. Much better find a place I like, sign a multi-year lease, sink a little money into renovations, knowing I'll be there for a while than to sink all that emotional capital into ownership and a committee. My goodness, people have lost their visas and emotional health over stuff like this.

Nancy, I understand your sentiment and I understand many people are nervous about buying here for many reasons. (Personally I hate paying rent but that is just me)

But I am interested, you sink money into a property owned by someone else, and I wonder how many weeks notice the owner has to give you to quit your multi-year tenancy??

Or maybe you have to rely on the owner's goodwill and words?? Was it Sam Goldwyn who famously said 'A verbal contract isnt worth the paper it's written on'? Or maybe you have a lengthy written notice?

What's the owner going to do? Find another tenant? Doubtful, especially one that takes care of the unit and pays the rent on time, which is presumably what NancyL does.

I've owned and rented in both landlords' and renters' markets, and renting during a renters' market is heaven. Of course, you have to be able to afford the rent, but the landlord treats you well, very well.

It's been a renters' market for the 10+ years I've lived here in CM and it's been great.

To each their own, but when I read or hear of the goings on at these condo buildings in CM, I count my blessings that I'm not part of it.

For those who have bought condos for 2 million and then sold them later for 4, congratulations and more power to you. The same to all those farang men who have the highly-educated, hi-so, beautiful, Thai-Chinese wives/gf's who don't want a penny, just love! More power to you

Not sure why you are doubtful about a landlord finding another good tenant. That is not hard here.

And we could discuss all day whether it is a renter's or owners market - which probably indicates it is neither. There are pockets at the low end where an owner can still achieve 12% rental income (NOT net return) and capital appreciation, and pockets at the higher end where tenants can find 'cheap' rents relative to the value of the property.

But folk have personal preferences - if they feel they have made their home here, are happy with the political/market risk, and have found somewhere they are happy living, they are probably buyers. If they want the freedom of movement, feeling unconstrained, and are risk averse then they are probably renters.

In the 10+ years you have been here, a tenant paying 10k a month (for example only), has laid out 1.2 million in 10 years, and is still paying rent. On the plus side they have not had maintenance, capital risk (or even community fees to pay) and have had the freedom to move around. But they have missed the capital appreciation.

Personal choices for all , and that makes an active market - evidenced by spending a few hours at the Land Office, observing all the property changing hands.

But I would not advocate sinking money in a property someone else owns, and can turf you out of at short notice. I know of more than one case where a landlord with a long term tenant here has been reluctant to increase rents, so sold the property, took the profit, and the incoming landlord imposed a new lease which the tenant could accept - or not.

And of course whether we decide, individually, to buy or rent, we are all good at rationalizing our decisions, and finding factors to support our case!

I fall into the freedom of movement class. I am retired with an income that allows me to rent and never see any return on the money. It is not only the freedom it allows me. But also the freedom from repairs and upkeep. 40 years of it was enough. I choose a condo because it allows me to lock the door and go away on a three month trip no worry. Also I am not a gardener so a house is out. Mind you when I had kids it was a must.

As a renter I can pickup and move when the condo gets run down. As a buyer I have to hang onto it and maybe get hit with a big bill to upgrade it.

We looked at condos in the Riverside Condo and elected not to take one there. It was a combination of several points nothing to do with the units. I have since then seen this discussion before and it sounds to me like nothing has changed except you don't have use of the swimming pool for a while. With the infighting it may be awhile before it is up and running.

.

[beau thai]

I appreciate your point of view as a renter Northern John. For many the sunk rental is an acceptable price for freedom I suppose

Riverside Pool- delay is nothing to do with minor office politics, just the difficulties of fixing a small leak in a big pool. Hopefully the second go around will do the job I am told.

Edited October 24, 2014 by beau thai

[petercool]

A reposting of a removed post for which explicit reasons were given was again removed.

Should the poster post this again he will face suspension.

[LivinginKata]

A reposting of a removed post for which explicit reasons were given was again removed.

Should the poster post this again he will face suspension.

And yet another post removed. Thaivisa is not the correct place to discuss the affairs of a committee. Use your committe meetings to air your grievances, thank you.