Australian PM orders parliamentary burka ban rethink

[samran]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Which section of the constitution mentions the burqua again?

I would welcome a referendum anyway. Any proposal for banning would be shot down in flames.

[daveAustin]

They're not my favourite fish, but the French have this one down pat.

[i claudius]

How many women in Australia wear burquas ? Just another fear-mongering no-news item. Many Catholic nuns wore full face habits for years in Australia.

They didn't cover their faces

[i claudius]

It's a tough one. On the one hand, if you're a woman who has lived her entire life with the burqa, being asked to remove it in front of a crowd of strangers is probably excruciating. Akin to asking a Baptist minister to walk down main street with no pants on.

On the other hand, it seems that there are few things more horrible than telling a 13 year old girl she must now spend the majority of her life trapped in a cloth bag or else be thrown into a pit of fire for all eternity. If that's not child abuse, I don't know what is. Should certainly not be allowed. As a start, I would fully support a law to ban the burqa for anyone under 20 years of age.

I have much less of a problem with the hijab. I don't like what it represents, or the rather chauvinist message it conveys, but at least those who wear it can participate in society and interact with other human beings.

If they have spent their lives covered perhaps Australia is not the land for them just an observation

[simple1]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

They would be back to the hellholes of the middle east in no time if it wasn't for welfare.

As previously posted 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education / qualifications than the norm for Australians. Yet it has been identified they experience over twice the national average of unemployment rates due to discrimination by potential employers.

Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent. Buddhists had the second highest jobless rate, with 8.6 per cent unemployed, the report said.

[giddyup]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

They would be back to the hellholes of the middle east in no time if it wasn't for welfare.

As previously posted 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education / qualifications than the norm for Australians. Yet it has been identified they experience over twice the national average of unemployment rates due to discrimination by potential employers.

Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent. Buddhists had the second highest jobless rate, with 8.6 per cent unemployed, the report said.

I don't believe that for a second. An employer doesn't ask what religion you are when applying for a job. Most of the muslim jobless are youths who either have a poor education and no job skills, or prefer to be on welfare and get cash in hand at their uncle's kebab shop.

Edited October 7, 2014 by giddyup

[simple1]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

They would be back to the hellholes of the middle east in no time if it wasn't for welfare.

As previously posted 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education / qualifications than the norm for Australians. Yet it has been identified they experience over twice the national average of unemployment rates due to discrimination by potential employers.

Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent. Buddhists had the second highest jobless rate, with 8.6 per cent unemployed, the report said.

I don't believe that for a second. An employer doesn't ask what religion you are when applying for a job. Most of the muslim jobless are youths who either have a poor education and no job skills, or prefer to be on welfare and get cash in hand at their uncle's kebab shop.

Living in a dream world if you don't think that employers would be asking for passports to confirm Visa status for migrants and decline based upon a combination of their country of origin and assumed faith. Agree about youths having very high unemployment rates, both foreign born and Ozzies.

Working cash in hand is huge in Oz for both Ozzies and migrants. Recently returned to Oz and wife (Australian citizen) was offered a number of jobs (full time and casual) on the sole condition, payment cash in hand, both by Ozzie and migrant employers

[halloween]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

They would be back to the hellholes of the middle east in no time if it wasn't for welfare.

As previously posted 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education / qualifications than the norm for Australians. Yet it has been identified they experience over twice the national average of unemployment rates due to discrimination by potential employers.

Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent. Buddhists had the second highest jobless rate, with 8.6 per cent unemployed, the report said.

I'm sure that you are aware that education standards vary widely. Why would you put down to discrimination what could easily be explained by lack of skills, despite qualifications, especially English language skills?

[simple1]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

They would be back to the hellholes of the middle east in no time if it wasn't for welfare.

As previously posted 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education / qualifications than the norm for Australians. Yet it has been identified they experience over twice the national average of unemployment rates due to discrimination by potential employers.

Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent. Buddhists had the second highest jobless rate, with 8.6 per cent unemployed, the report said.

I'm sure that you are aware that education standards vary widely. Why would you put down to discrimination what could easily be explained by lack of skills, despite qualifications, especially English language skills?

As my Thai wife & TV member Samran has experienced, racism / discrimination is a fact of life in Oz. Same would apply to most countries, if not all.

I can't be bothered to do the search for you. I assume you're from Australia so you will understand the skilled migrant visa criteria. There are a number of government reports on this issue of discrimination against skilled Muslim migrants. For others, as well as discrimination, naturally Ed levels and so on will come into play,

[samran]

The haters are going to hate....

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/skaters-leap-to-aid-of-muslim-women-lecture-public-for-ignoring-abuse-20141008-10rr98.html

[halloween]

The haters are going to hate....

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/skaters-leap-to-aid-of-muslim-women-lecture-public-for-ignoring-abuse-20141008-10rr98.html

Do you remember the kid playing the banjo in Deliverance? Bingleburra outside Dungog is that sort of place.

[samran]

The haters are going to hate....

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/skaters-leap-to-aid-of-muslim-women-lecture-public-for-ignoring-abuse-20141008-10rr98.html

Do you remember the kid playing the banjo in Deliverance? Bingleburra outside Dungog is that sort of place.

So is the shire from what we've seen in recent history. Doesn't excuse it.

[JockPieandBeans]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Which section of the constitution mentions the burqua again?

I would welcome a referendum anyway. Any proposal for banning would be shot down in flames.

What section of the constitution mentions crash helmets again ?

It is a simple conundrum. If anyone wishes to enter any place where a full face needs to be shown, that is what should happen, whether it be a crash helmet, burqa or any other item that covers the face.

[samran]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Which section of the constitution mentions the burqua again?

I would welcome a referendum anyway. Any proposal for banning would be shot down in flames.

What section of the constitution mentions crash helmets again ?

It is a simple conundrum. If anyone wishes to enter any place where a full face needs to be shown, that is what should happen, whether it be a crash helmet, burqa or any other item that covers the face.

If a bank decides that it is/isn't needed for security reasons then I have no problem.

I'm not one for government interfering unnecessarily in business.

[JockPieandBeans]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Which section of the constitution mentions the burqua again?

I would welcome a referendum anyway. Any proposal for banning would be shot down in flames.

What section of the constitution mentions crash helmets again ?

It is a simple conundrum. If anyone wishes to enter any place where a full face needs to be shown, that is what should happen, whether it be a crash helmet, burqa or any other item that covers the face.

If a bank decides that it is/isn't needed for security reasons then I have no problem.

I'm not one for government interfering unnecessarily in business.

Dodge the question again.

I didn't refer to banks. I referred to ANY place that requires full face recognition.

World of difference, that you clearly have no understanding of.

[samran]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Which section of the constitution mentions the burqua again?

I would welcome a referendum anyway. Any proposal for banning would be shot down in flames.

What section of the constitution mentions crash helmets again ?

It is a simple conundrum. If anyone wishes to enter any place where a full face needs to be shown, that is what should happen, whether it be a crash helmet, burqa or any other item that covers the face.

If a bank decides that it is/isn't needed for security reasons then I have no problem.

I'm not one for government interfering unnecessarily in business.

Dodge the question again.

I didn't refer to banks. I referred to ANY place that requires full face recognition.

World of difference, that you clearly have no understanding of.

Okay, anywhere then.

Clearly parliament, advised by asio doesn't think it important, so I'll leave it and my safety to them, not people with agendas.

[JockPieandBeans]

Okay, anywhere then.

Clearly parliament, advised by asio doesn't think it important, so I'll leave it and my safety to them, not people with agendas.

I wonder who has the agenda.

I, and others have clearly pointed out, that is plainly wrong, to allow differing standards.

[samran]

Okay, anywhere then.

Clearly parliament, advised by asio doesn't think it important, so I'll leave it and my safety to them, not people with agendas.

I wonder who has the agenda.

I, and others have clearly pointed out, that is plainly wrong, to allow differing standards.

So you don't like my even handed answer then?

[JockPieandBeans]

Okay, anywhere then.

Clearly parliament, advised by asio doesn't think it important, so I'll leave it and my safety to them, not people with agendas.

I wonder who has the agenda.

I, and others have clearly pointed out, that is plainly wrong, to allow differing standards.

So you don't like my even handed answer then?

Would that even handed answer have anything to do with double standards ?

Thought not.

[7by7]

Okay, anywhere then.

Clearly parliament, advised by asio doesn't think it important, so I'll leave it and my safety to them, not people with agendas.

I wonder who has the agenda.

I, and others have clearly pointed out, that is plainly wrong, to allow differing standards.

So you don't like my even handed answer then?

Would that even handed answer have anything to do with double standards ?

Thought not.

I have not seen a single post which says a burka wearing woman should be allowed to keep her face covered when others have to show theirs for security or identification reasons; in fact the opposite!

How is that double standards?

However, if, for example, a bank allows a burka wearing woman to keep her face covered but insists that a person wearing a full face crash helmet removes it, then you can accuse that bank of double standards; but it is they with whom you have an issue, not any poster here.

But at the end of the day it is the bank who decides their policy, if you don't like that policy find a bank with whom you have more in common.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[saramsland]

Yeah, same here. I've been living/working in Afghanistan for 10+ years and have seen all manner of muslim headgear (from scarves to full blown burquas with mesh screens covering the eyes), but I've never seen a nun (of any christian denomination) with a fully covered face.

And there are probably quite a few muslims in Australia wearing full face coverings, and some probably are women even. I say that with a condescending look on my face as the military here continuously find men trying to sneak through check points dressed as women (especially if it appears that there are no female soldiers at the checkpoint at that time).

There was a news article stating that exact same issue. Some guy dressed in a full covering and passed immigration under someone elses passport, so with that it is obviously a security issue.

Or perhaps, when crimes are committed and the criminal was wearing a face covering, anyone wearing a face covering will then fit the description and can be arrested, questioned or whatever without anyone complaining of unfairness.

[saramsland]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

They would be back to the hellholes of the middle east in no time if it wasn't for welfare.

As previously posted 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education / qualifications than the norm for Australians. Yet it has been identified they experience over twice the national average of unemployment rates due to discrimination by potential employers.

Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent. Buddhists had the second highest jobless rate, with 8.6 per cent unemployed, the report said.

Higher level of education does not necessarily prove any intelligence. I know plenty of people with 5. 10 or up to 23 certificates for one individual and in their line of work they are useless, have no experience and have sent projects into the ground due to their arrogance.

You will find at time Australia is a country that still values experience rather than a spiffy piece of paper that proves you can regurgitate what you read from your text book.

Of these unemployment figures it would be interesting to know who have applied for jobs, who have taken an available job to keep an income and who was happy with welfare and whether or not they are making an unregistered income dodging tax.

Also, when employing someone it is not only education that should be considered but personal conduct, appearance of how they dress, how they conduct themselves etc etc. stating only education shows you yourself don't have much understanding of recruiting someone especially when there are downturns in many industries at the moment

[simple1]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

They would be back to the hellholes of the middle east in no time if it wasn't for welfare.

As previously posted 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education / qualifications than the norm for Australians. Yet it has been identified they experience over twice the national average of unemployment rates due to discrimination by potential employers.

Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent. Buddhists had the second highest jobless rate, with 8.6 per cent unemployed, the report said.

Higher level of education does not necessarily prove any intelligence. I know plenty of people with 5. 10 or up to 23 certificates for one individual and in their line of work they are useless, have no experience and have sent projects into the ground due to their arrogance.

You will find at time Australia is a country that still values experience rather than a spiffy piece of paper that proves you can regurgitate what you read from your text book.

Of these unemployment figures it would be interesting to know who have applied for jobs, who have taken an available job to keep an income and who was happy with welfare and whether or not they are making an unregistered income dodging tax.

Also, when employing someone it is not only education that should be considered but personal conduct, appearance of how they dress, how they conduct themselves etc etc. stating only education shows you yourself don't have much understanding of recruiting someone especially when there are downturns in many industries at the moment

The education level is a benchmark factor quoted from government statistics for new migrants. One would have to think they were previously employed in the relevant industry where skills are short within the Australian population; it's one of the criteria for granting a new migrant visa.

Thanks for the advice, but after working with very large MNC's and owning an SME, well aware there are a number of factors to consider when employing someone.

Edited October 17, 2014 by simple1

[saramsland]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

They would be back to the hellholes of the middle east in no time if it wasn't for welfare.

As previously posted 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education / qualifications than the norm for Australians. Yet it has been identified they experience over twice the national average of unemployment rates due to discrimination by potential employers.

Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent. Buddhists had the second highest jobless rate, with 8.6 per cent unemployed, the report said.

Higher level of education does not necessarily prove any intelligence. I know plenty of people with 5. 10 or up to 23 certificates for one individual and in their line of work they are useless, have no experience and have sent projects into the ground due to their arrogance.

You will find at time Australia is a country that still values experience rather than a spiffy piece of paper that proves you can regurgitate what you read from your text book.

Of these unemployment figures it would be interesting to know who have applied for jobs, who have taken an available job to keep an income and who was happy with welfare and whether or not they are making an unregistered income dodging tax.

Also, when employing someone it is not only education that should be considered but personal conduct, appearance of how they dress, how they conduct themselves etc etc. stating only education shows you yourself don't have much understanding of recruiting someone especially when there are downturns in many industries at the moment

The education level is a benchmark factor quoted from government statistics for new migrants. One would have to think they were previously employed in the relevant industry where skills are short within the Australian population; it's one of the criteria for granting a new migrant visa.

Thanks for the advice, but after working with very large MNC's and owning an SME, well aware there are a number of factors to consider when employing someone.

I have worked with se of these 457 guys and can assure you more often than not that have not been employed in the relevant industry. I can also tell you I have seen them make very stupid mistakes including one instance where one dropped a dozer belly pan on his head because he had no experience relevant to the task. Sadly that guy died as a result.

I have worked overseas for a long time and understand the hoops that have to jumped through to be able to be employed as a foreigner, Australia need to work on their immigrant workforce requirements. The 457 Visa's are said to be for skills shortage but quite often it is for cheaper wages.. There is a Chinese owned mine in WA where there in one Australia assigned with each team of 5 Chinese workers with no skills... Now how is this solving a skills shortage in the long term?

[simple1]

IMHO the burqua issue is worthy of a referendum. If the people of Oz decide they don't want it in their society, we may be accused of racism, sexism, religionism and being uncultured bigots.

Fair enough. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

They would be back to the hellholes of the middle east in no time if it wasn't for welfare.

As previously posted 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education / qualifications than the norm for Australians. Yet it has been identified they experience over twice the national average of unemployment rates due to discrimination by potential employers.

Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent. Buddhists had the second highest jobless rate, with 8.6 per cent unemployed, the report said.

Higher level of education does not necessarily prove any intelligence. I know plenty of people with 5. 10 or up to 23 certificates for one individual and in their line of work they are useless, have no experience and have sent projects into the ground due to their arrogance.

You will find at time Australia is a country that still values experience rather than a spiffy piece of paper that proves you can regurgitate what you read from your text book.

Of these unemployment figures it would be interesting to know who have applied for jobs, who have taken an available job to keep an income and who was happy with welfare and whether or not they are making an unregistered income dodging tax.

Also, when employing someone it is not only education that should be considered but personal conduct, appearance of how they dress, how they conduct themselves etc etc. stating only education shows you yourself don't have much understanding of recruiting someone especially when there are downturns in many industries at the moment

The education level is a benchmark factor quoted from government statistics for new migrants. One would have to think they were previously employed in the relevant industry where skills are short within the Australian population; it's one of the criteria for granting a new migrant visa.

Thanks for the advice, but after working with very large MNC's and owning an SME, well aware there are a number of factors to consider when employing someone.

I have worked with se of these 457 guys and can assure you more often than not that have not been employed in the relevant industry. I can also tell you I have seen them make very stupid mistakes including one instance where one dropped a dozer belly pan on his head because he had no experience relevant to the task. Sadly that guy died as a result.

I have worked overseas for a long time and understand the hoops that have to jumped through to be able to be employed as a foreigner, Australia need to work on their immigrant workforce requirements. The 457 Visa's are said to be for skills shortage but quite often it is for cheaper wages.. There is a Chinese owned mine in WA where there in one Australia assigned with each team of 5 Chinese workers with no skills... Now how is this solving a skills shortage in the long term?

I am not referring to 457 visa holders, they are not classified as migrants

[katana]

Woman is thrown out of Paris opera after cast refused to perform unless she removed Muslim veil - Dail Mail 20/10/14
France's Socialist government today pledged to toughen up its anti face-covering law after a veiled Muslim woman was ejected from a major Paris opera house.
In an incident which has divided opinion in the city's liberal arts community, cast members performing La Traviata 'objected strongly' to the presence of a woman in the audience wearing a niqab-type veil.
'A singer spotted her in the front row during the second act,' said Jean-Philippe Thiellay, director of the Bastille Opera, which was opened by Socialist president Francois Mitterand in 1989.
'Some performers said they didn't want to sing,' said Mr Thiellay, who confirmed that she was kicked out.

Continued: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2799981/woman-thrown-paris-opera-cast-refused-perform-unless-removed-muslim-veil.html

[H1w4yR1da]

Well done to the performers for taking a stand.

[Ulysses G.]

Jolly good show!

[Tongdee]

Burquas should be banned in all the Western World when they pose security issues.. That would include in my view all places where people gather, banks, shops, restaurants and all public transport. No doubt many more places. When a crime is committed, witnesses are usually able to give a description of the criminal. What information can you provide when the suspect is adorned in a burqua.

Let the wearers remember whose country it is...and then consider abiding by that countries rules!

.

altho I cannot suport banning "burquas" specifically I can suport a ban on wearing "any type of clothing, blind, camoflouge or other means of inhibiting identification in public places.

Halloween possibly????? exempted for children under certain height.