Police clarify Koh Tao victim's cellphone 'planting'

[HeijoshinCool]

This is a prime example of why professional law enforcement, and criminal prosecutors, do not comment on an open investigation, beyond the basics: who, what, where, when ….

They are smart enough to know things they say, just like the things suspects say, can and will be used against them in a court of law.

As for this:

As for Witheridge's cellphone, police returned it along with her iPad and digital camera to her family on 18 September, said Pol.Col. Prachum said.

Bizarre. Unbelievable.

All of these items are evidence in a double homicide, one that has worldwide attention. It's possible they may contain deleted evidence that could be recovered and aid in a conviction; or possible they might be needed at trial, or appeal for some reasons yet unknown. (Then again, maybe the police deleted it, because what they contained didn't fit their needs.)

No credible law enforcement agency would ever hand such items over to family before the case was closed, and all appeals were exhausted, let alone just three days after the crimes.

They have no idea how inept, and suspicious, they look.

[Rooo]

Off topic posts & replies deleted.

[poweratradio]

I love this arm chair detection and investigative technique wizardry in this forum. The pure genius being displayed here is overwhelming and bring me to tears with pride in my fellow man. Okay okay I got a little misty giggling at some of the wit I mean sh*t

[belg]

2014, they cannot ask the phone company to see who's phone was where during the whole night and movements ?

[minikev]

Clear as mud, but please answer all the questions thats been asked on the internet, like before the arrest of the suspects police confirmed that all the workers at AC bar DNA was tested and was cleared, only later to arrest a man who was cleared before and then claim his DNA match that that was found on the victim etc etc.

One of the supects worked at AC2 bar which is outside the zone for the first testing.

Neither supect had had their DNA taken prior to their detention.

Not quite true! One of the suspects DNA was on file waiting to be checked. As you say as he was outside the initial zone it was in a queue.

[jaidam]

2014, they cannot ask the phone company to see who's phone was where during the whole night and movements ?

TVF members have been pleading with authorities to check cell phone records over the hours between 1am and 5am on the murder morning. If they had done as asked, the farce we are now witnessing would likely not be occurring.

[SjaakNL2013]

This a typical way for Thai's when they walk on quicksand. Start thread all who oppose with law suits.

Instead of ask for the help of a respected police corps they just start hitting wild around them like blind horses.

All is OK aslong they, the RTP, is right ......... so sad.

[cup-O-coffee]

What foreigners do not seem to understand is this:

The beauty of the Thai language is that there is no concept of a complete thought of idea until the person uttering says so.

In actuality, when a Thai (and only a Thai) utters a sentence, it is recognized, understood and accepted by other Thais as an incomplete thought or idea. This utterance may come out to sound like a complete thought or idea to a foreigner, yet only Thais understand that each incomplete thought or idea uttered bears a very unique property in its composition.

This unique property allows for for what was originally uttered to be changed each time it is uttered until the person uttering it (and only that person) is satisfied that his or her thought or idea is complete... and even then, the one who uttered it is allotted the grace to change it even years and years after being uttered.

This might help explain why the police keep changing the things they utter, and whereas they complained that the media interfered with their investigation, they are now using the media to patch up their investigation.

So you see, it is really quite simple to understand all of this. We are making the mistake of assuming that anything the police say is the final word on that matter. Only when they say so, and to continue asking questions or pose contradictions will only compel the police to continue to engage in the property of the language and continue to modify the original statement to his or her satisfaction.

So, when are the police telling the truth? When we stop opposing what they say and simply accept it. To oppose it is rude, barbaric and not demonstrating a knowledge of cultural "Thainess", as it compels them to continue to explain needless logic that they feel is not necessary for us to be regaled with.

[Dogmatix]

I haven't seen anything about Miller's clothing. He was found naked. What about his clothes? Were they ever recovered?

Sent from my LG-D858

See here.

These clothes appear to match the clothes David was wearing in the last picture of them at the Chopper bar before they moved on to the AC Bar. Also seem to match the clothes in the CCTV vids.

There is something in the picture in the foreground by the end of the woven belt which has straight, not crinkly woven, surfaces and could possibly be a phone. It is too long for a phone but could be partly out of a case. It could be a black iPhone 4, it could be the back of a Samsung Hero (which David is also alleged to have carried to use with a Thai SIM card since his UK iPhone was locked), or it might some other non-phone item.

After the first few days police focused on some Burmese workers living and working nearby who they said were found with blood spattered jeans and David's black iPhone 4. You can see the footage on UK news websites (which also showed the police discovering a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol in its box and what looks like a Chinese hand grenade). At around the same time pictures of Burmese workers lining up for DNA testing were published and one of the two self-confessed suspects is clearly seen waiting in the queue to give his DNA sample. It is unclear what happened to this early lead. The police said that none of DNA matched and released all the Burmese, including presumably the suspect seen in the DNA queue. They didn't say anything more about the black iPhone 4 they found and originally said was David's. Confused?

Edited October 7, 2014 by Dogmatix

[phanangpete]

Where is the Knife used on David, have they found that yet, surely if they have admitted to the crime so easy, this would be found, handed over, The RTP would have had no problem getting it !

[Kru Baa]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The police posted on social media that anyone circulating alternative theories against the police's official story would be prosecuted

And just how do they plan to do that?

[Cuchulainn]

Third world.

An insult to Third World countries.

[Equalizer]

It is really very simple for the Thai police to put an end to all this. During the autopsy there are samples of tissue, blood etc taken and put in storage. I am also sure the British police forensics will have also done this on repatriation. Let an independent investigation take samples of both these accused Burmese boys and conduct a new test without any interference from the Thai authorities. If the Thai authorities refuse for this to happen the case is closed, let the poor buggers out.

[Tropicalevo]

Let's list all the Positives and Negatives of Thailand. I'll start with the 'Positives' ....

Beer

Whores

Ability to Drink and Drive

Whores

Commit Murder and Get Away with It

Whores

Flout Any Law You Like

Whores

Rice Noodles

Whores

Buy Your Way Out of Anything, oh and did I mention the Whores?

OK, add anything you like... if you tackle the negatives best of luck and great if you have the time.

So glad I left. I'd rather go swimming in a cesspit than come back to Thailand.

I agree with your final statement.

Looking at your positives - I too would prefer that you swim in a cesspit rather than come back to Thailand.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Tropicalevo

[mango66]

Third world.

if there would ge a 4th category,

LOS and TRP would lead it !!

[Equalizer]

BANGKOK — Thai police have dismissed the accusation that they planted evidence on the Burmese men accused of murdering two British backpackers in southern Thailand three weeks ago.

Commentators on social media accused the police of falsely implicating the two Burmese workers, named Saw and Win, as "scapegoats" in the killing of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge on Koh Tao island on 15 September.

Last week, Thai police chief Somyot Pumphanmuang said officers found Witheridge’s phone during a raid of one of the suspect’s homes. However, internet skeptics started passing around a photo of Witheridge with her phone prior to the murder, and another one of Witheridge’s friends giving the same phone to police.

Pol.Col. Prachum Ruengthong, a top officer in charge of Koh Tao, explained yesterday that there was a misunderstanding.

According to Pol.Col. Prachum, the phone uncovered by police at the suspect's residence belonged to Miller, not Witheridge.

BUT, What happened to the phone found with the body????

I can not remember reading a phone was found with the bodies. Where did you read this?

[ParadiseLost]

I love this arm chair detection and investigative technique wizardry in this forum. The pure genius being displayed here is overwhelming and bring me to tears with pride in my fellow man. Okay okay I got a little misty giggling at some of the wit I mean sh*t

Perhaps you are having too good a time and missing the point of trying to ensure justice is served here - the only thing people are now clamouring for is the TRUTH - nothing else.

If you are indifferent to the rights of the victims, the accused and any people who may come into danger while there is a psychotic killer free, then you should look to your own miserable self to see if you find humour there!

Edited October 7, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[Equalizer]

The police posted on social media that anyone circulating alternative theories against the police's official story would be prosecuted

Do you have a link?

[Rooo]

Deleted further posts, bickering & off topic. Please stop or your posting privileges will be suspended.

[mango66]

Ah John,

So good to hear from you again.

Just one thing-it did not start with the phone issue.That was just one on a list of inconsistencies that many were already confused about and concerned by.

Oooh look, here's one big glaring one right now:-

Here is today's interview of a policeman and a police pathologist by Sorayud on Channel 3 where a police pathologist definitively confirms the presence of an as yet unidentified third suspect's DNA on Hannah's body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_1WfVs7RY

"The pathologist said that DNA of B and a third person C was found on Hannah's nipples. The third person was not David. The policeman didn't explain who the police thought C was or how he came to deposit his DNA on Hannah's nipples."

(info originally shared by Dogmatix on #265 on http://www.thaivisa....spects/page-11)

All guilty should be found and brought to justice. The two should not take all the fall for an absent third . Noone who values justice can disagree with that, not even you I imagine.

they dont have the DNA of Village Headnas son,

and will never get it on legal way !!

Hope some comerade in the University could supply some hair or what ever to us ??

[sweatalot]

What foreigners do not seem to understand is this:

The beauty of the Thai language is that there is no concept of a complete thought of idea until the person uttering says so.

In actuality, when a Thai (and only a Thai) utters a sentence, it is recognized, understood and accepted by other Thais as an incomplete thought or idea. This utterance may come out to sound like a complete thought or idea to a foreigner, yet only Thais understand that each incomplete thought or idea uttered bears a very unique property in its composition.

This unique property allows for for what was originally uttered to be changed each time it is uttered until the person uttering it (and only that person) is satisfied that his or her thought or idea is complete... and even then, the one who uttered it is allotted the grace to change it even years and years after being uttered.

This might help explain why the police keep changing the things they utter, and whereas they complained that the media interfered with their investigation, they are now using the media to patch up their investigation.

So you see, it is really quite simple to understand all of this. We are making the mistake of assuming that anything the police say is the final word on that matter. Only when they say so, and to continue asking questions or pose contradictions will only compel the police to continue to engage in the property of the language and continue to modify the original statement to his or her satisfaction.

So, when are the police telling the truth? When we stop opposing what they say and simply accept it. To oppose it is rude, barbaric and not demonstrating a knowledge of cultural "Thainess", as it compels them to continue to explain needless logic that they feel is not necessary for us to be regaled with.

So everything is a mistake of the translaters. Don't they know this?

[Equalizer]

Does logical and provable explanations mean anything to the conspiracy nuts? This is what it all started with a phone that police not only allowed the press to take pictures of in the first day of the investigations and stated they had but one they passed off to the family weeks ago and witnessed by UK Embassy people. Yea, it makes the conspiracy goes all the way to the UK where they stole the phone back and planted it at the suspects location last week and just forgot the press and UK authorities and parents knew they returned her phone.

Well this is what started all the conspiracy talk on Facebook. So, it clearly will be hard to drop for some but others will talk about missing video that makes no sense either. The police release video of a suspect go and coming from around the crime scene in hopes of getting the suspect identified but now they claim their is missing video and they want to know who is in those frames. Yet there is not 2-minutes missing there is many many many hours missing. The police release what they wanted to achieve what the wanted from the public and that is identifying the one person in the video coming and going.

All this because folks wanted it to be a rich Thai and because they mistrust the police. Wake up folks, even a liar sometimes tells the truth and the case they are turning over to the courts for their lawyers to defend looks pretty open and shut. Witnesses (including their friends), video, physical evidence at their place, confessions and DNA. And this is just what has come out as none of us has seen police reports or autopsy reports ... but lets no let the Facebook forensic team tell us the cause of death, murder weapon and sequence of blows and if the person was left or right handed and if the injuries were before or after death by using low res images they don't know the exact timing of when they were taken or what may have changed such as blood being wiped away inadvertently or on purpose. How stupid they even do autopsies or go out to crime scenes when a simple photo can tell a laymen so much.

We will all surely hear if they tell their lawyers they are innocent and were forced to confess and reenact the crime ... as well, lawyers will certainly retest their DNA if they have any doubt.

But why talk logic with folks who simply want to believe things like Elvis is still alive ... well actually that has more probability.

And there you have it folks, straight from our very own brainwashed Tourist police volunteer.

[wilcopops]

Amateur Sherlocks are doing more harm than good.

Surely evidence is to be discussed in court. Bandying about rumours and speculation is just tittle-tattle?

The real issues that need to be discussed and highlighted must surely be the matters concerning methods and procedures used?

[Dogmatix]

Where is the Knife used on David, have they found that yet, surely if they have admitted to the crime so easy, this would be found, handed over, The RTP would have had no problem getting it !

The police pathologist interviewed yesterday on Channel 3 said David's wounds were definitely not made by any type of a knife but were made with a blunt instrument which could have been a hoe. The garden hoe used to murder Hannah and turn her face to mush in the process was not found to have any of David's DNA on it which some posters say is understandable because detecting two sets of blood spatters would have been two demanding, even though detecting two lots of semen seemed to be a cynch. Anyway the police pathologist only said it could have been a hoe and it could not have been a knife. However, one of the suspects has confessed to hacking David with the hoe, as seen in the re-enactment with the dustpan. Thus the evidence from the confession points to the hoe, while the forensic evidence doesn't clearly point to the hoe but leaves it open as any type of blunt instrument. If the police are still searching for another murder weapon, contrary to the confession evidence, they have not mentioned it. If it was indeed the hoe, it remains unclear why it produced only small incisions on David but turned Hannah to mush. The suspects claimed that one of them killed David and the other Hannah. Was the one who killed David much weaker than the one who killed Hannah or did he hold back his blows to avoid unnecessary force to murder a large white man two heads taller than himself, while his accomplice felt that he needed to use maximum force on Hannah to mush around in her brain to obviate the possibility that she might recover and testify against them?

Hopefully this mystery will be clarified during the trial.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Thai at Heart]

The scary thing is that it took an Internet armchair detective to discover this mistake. How embarrassing for the RTP. They can't even keep track of and ID evidence properly. It takes social media to help do their jobs, which the RTP clearly do not know how to do.

A half decent criminal defence lawyer would squash the whole case in a day. Is it any wonder they don't have and legal justice TV thrillers in Thailand.

[Equalizer]

Ah John,

So good to hear from you again.

Just one thing-it did not start with the phone issue.That was just one on a list of inconsistencies that many were already confused about and concerned by.

Oooh look, here's one big glaring one right now:-

Here is today's interview of a policeman and a police pathologist by Sorayud on Channel 3 where a police pathologist definitively confirms the presence of an as yet unidentified third suspect's DNA on Hannah's body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_1WfVs7RY

"The pathologist said that DNA of B and a third person C was found on Hannah's nipples. The third person was not David. The policeman didn't explain who the police thought C was or how he came to deposit his DNA on Hannah's nipples."

(info originally shared by Dogmatix on #265 on http://www.thaivisa....spects/page-11)

All guilty should be found and brought to justice. The two should not take all the fall for an absent third . Noone who values justice can disagree with that, not even you I imagine.

Right im with you now buddy, clear as a bell that. I just didnt get the part where he said nong foc gang putt, be teer ram pan pop tee. If you see what i mean.

[love1012]

Does logical and provable explanations mean anything to the conspiracy nuts? This is what it all started with a phone that police not only allowed the press to take pictures of in the first day of the investigations and stated they had but one they passed off to the family weeks ago and witnessed by UK Embassy people. Yea, it makes the conspiracy goes all the way to the UK where they stole the phone back and planted it at the suspects location last week and just forgot the press and UK authorities and parents knew they returned her phone.

Well this is what started all the conspiracy talk on Facebook. So, it clearly will be hard to drop for some but others will talk about missing video that makes no sense either. The police release video of a suspect go and coming from around the crime scene in hopes of getting the suspect identified but now they claim their is missing video and they want to know who is in those frames. Yet there is not 2-minutes missing there is many many many hours missing. The police release what they wanted to achieve what the wanted from the public and that is identifying the one person in the video coming and going.

All this because folks wanted it to be a rich Thai and because they mistrust the police. Wake up folks, even a liar sometimes tells the truth and the case they are turning over to the courts for their lawyers to defend looks pretty open and shut. Witnesses (including their friends), video, physical evidence at their place, confessions and DNA. And this is just what has come out as none of us has seen police reports or autopsy reports ... but lets no let the Facebook forensic team tell us the cause of death, murder weapon and sequence of blows and if the person was left or right handed and if the injuries were before or after death by using low res images they don't know the exact timing of when they were taken or what may have changed such as blood being wiped away inadvertently or on purpose. How stupid they even do autopsies or go out to crime scenes when a simple photo can tell a laymen so much.

We will all surely hear if they tell their lawyers they are innocent and were forced to confess and reenact the crime ... as well, lawyers will certainly retest their DNA if they have any doubt.

But why talk logic with folks who simply want to believe things like Elvis is still alive ... well actually that has more probability.

See your building up a good little following john boy - free drinks in AC Bar is it? Notice i said John "boy"

[Number 3]

This a typical way for Thai's when they walk on quicksand. Start thread all who oppose with law suits.

Instead of ask for the help of a respected police corps they just start hitting wild around them like blind horses.

All is OK aslong they, the RTP, is right ......... so sad.

Why on earth would you call in help when you have almost achieved the very goal that you set out with from

The beginning? No help required there. Just the expected acceptance of their word as god, praise and a reward from the government. Any questions ? Then expect a substantial lawsuit.

[love1012]

The most important thing is that the person who committed these crimes is not out there to kill again!

...........but "they" are!!

[Thai at Heart]

This a typical way for Thai's when they walk on quicksand. Start thread all who oppose with law suits.

Instead of ask for the help of a respected police corps they just start hitting wild around them like blind horses.

All is OK aslong they, the RTP, is right ......... so sad.

Why on earth would you call in help when you have almost achieved the very goal that you set out with from

The beginning? No help required there. Just the expected acceptance of their word as god, praise and a reward from the government. Any questions ? Then expect a substantial lawsuit.

The very premise that if you plead guilty you avoid a death sentence skews the game in the coppers favour just a little.