Koh Tao: British tourist murder suspects confess to human rights commissioner

[englishoak]

Still trying to open and shut case JTJ ? tsk tsk High likelihood theres more than just these two involved at different levels as im sure even you are aware of by now.

Hence the need for.....Independent investigation and DNS confirmation by professionals.... end of.

[kkup]

The human rights commissioner is on the take too.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol.

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

You dont find it odd at all that people representing these two suspects, facing possible death penalty, would just come out and openly talk to the press about their conversations?

Or that the prison would allow cameras in & turn the consular aspect into a spectator sport.

Can only imagine the conspiracy theorist reaction if they had done this in secret and made no comments of what transpired. What is great about promoting conspiracies is you can do it with everything. In this case there is something very suspicious because the suspects once again confirmed their guilt and if they didn't then conspiracy theorist would win too and if nothing was said it was a coverup.

If the case has a mountain of evidence such as witnesses, video, confessions and DNA then it is suspicious because it is too neat. If there is evidence missing then that is pounced on. If the police have not share something about the case then it is a cover-up, if they do share something it is a lie, if something is reported two ways then of course it is the way that serves their purpose. It is always win win and the more their theories get debunked they just increase their efforts and come up with more until it becomes completely pathetic as it has become now with the question of these two suspects.

[wackybacky]

The Thai police can allow an independent DNA test and put all this to bed in a heartbeat.. The fact that they have not speaks absolute volumes.

If they continue to sit on this setup, then the British authorities have actual samples from Hannah's body and the Myanmar lawyers can collect samples from the suspects and do the match themselves without any permission from the Thais.

As for this human rights commissioner, he is a Thai and up the food chain, so there goes any credibility as far as I am concerned.

Maybe they did confess, but all under extreme duress, and being threatened they will be executed if they plead not guilty, and if they confess to everyone, they may even be out on a deal within 10 years where a nice wedge of money will be waiting for them.

As far as smoking LM and drinking beer and wine..... my arse. Almost all migrant workers will drink as cheap as possible and smoke the cheapo fags such as Wonder Deng.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Still trying to open and shut case JTJ ? tsk tsk High likelihood theres more than just these two involved at different levels as im sure even you are aware of by now.

Hence the need for.....Independent investigation and DNS confirmation by professionals.... end of.

Congratulations -- at least you have come to the point of appearing to accept these two were involved.

Edited October 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[englishoak]

Do you have a problem with a proper investigation JTJ is that it ?

[englishoak]

Still trying to open and shut case JTJ ? tsk tsk High likelihood theres more than just these two involved at different levels as im sure even you are aware of by now.

Hence the need for.....Independent investigation and DNS confirmation by professionals.... end of.

Congratulations -- at least you have come to the point of appearing to accept these two were involved.

Oh i never said they couldnt be involved only that if they were it wasnt just them and it needed proper attn from professionals. And im not saying they are involved either without a proper investigation thats independent... Its too messed up

[JohnThailandJohn]

Please stop with the independent DNA tests as we all know that is not the way things are done. Instead they will have a biased test run by their legal team who are going to do everything in their power to benefit their clients. This is the way legal procedures work in countries not turning to another country to appease public doubts or conspiracy nuts.

Besides, an independent DNA test would simply be met with folks saying Thais contaminated or gave wrong samples for testing.

To how many people and how many times must these two say they are guilty before people believe them?

[minikev]

The cigarette butts with their dna found on the beach is part of the strong evidence against them. Now these boys were both very drunk from beer and wine. Were are the bottles that these two drank from I wonder?

They worked in a bar!

[taony]

So damn tedious scrolling through JTJ posts in every damn thread. Do you really need to make every other post? jeez, add one to the ignore list.

[MJP]

Please stop with the independent DNA tests as we all know that is not the way things are done. Instead they will have a biased test run by their legal team who are going to do everything in their power to benefit their clients. This is the way legal procedures work in countries not turning to another country to appease public doubts or conspiracy nuts.

Besides, an independent DNA test would simply be met with folks saying Thais contaminated or gave wrong samples for testing.

To how many people and how many times must these two say they are guilty before people believe them?

How is independent DNA testing not the way things are done? What do you mean by "things"? How can you have biased test run? DNA either matches or it doesn't.

Now I'm suspicious.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Still trying to open and shut case JTJ ? tsk tsk High likelihood theres more than just these two involved at different levels as im sure even you are aware of by now.

Hence the need for.....Independent investigation and DNS confirmation by professionals.... end of.

Congratulations -- at least you have come to the point of appearing to accept these two were involved.

Oh i never said they couldnt be involved only that if they were it wasnt just them and it needed proper attn from professionals. And im not saying they are involved either without a proper investigation thats independent... Its too messed up

Dude, now you can't even see your own words clearly.

"theres <sic> more than just these two involved"

This is the kind of comment you would never let go if it came from the press or police to prove what you want to believe. Personally, I think it is you slipping and admitting these guys are guilty (as they say they are) but just not ready to admit they acted alone.

Edited October 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[englishoak]

Please stop with the independent DNA tests as we all know that is not the way things are done. Instead they will have a biased test run by their legal team who are going to do everything in their power to benefit their clients. This is the way legal procedures work in countries not turning to another country to appease public doubts or conspiracy nuts.

Besides, an independent DNA test would simply be met with folks saying Thais contaminated or gave wrong samples for testing.

To how many people and how many times must these two say they are guilty before people believe them?

BS, its what is wanted and what is needed....Thats what all the fuss is really about... transparency and trust

You do have a problem with the one thing that would settle things real well for all

[crazykopite]

They drank beer and wine must of been well paid migrants as wine is very expensive in the Kingdom I still have my doubts about these two workers and where is the murder weapon that killed David and if my memory is correct there we're three separate DNAs but we only have two suspects.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Please stop with the independent DNA tests as we all know that is not the way things are done. Instead they will have a biased test run by their legal team who are going to do everything in their power to benefit their clients. This is the way legal procedures work in countries not turning to another country to appease public doubts or conspiracy nuts.

Besides, an independent DNA test would simply be met with folks saying Thais contaminated or gave wrong samples for testing.

To how many people and how many times must these two say they are guilty before people believe them?

How is independent DNA testing not the way things are done? What do you mean by "things"? How can you have biased test run? DNA either matches or it doesn't.

Now I'm suspicious.

One country doesn't turn to another country in a criminal case like this to confirm what they already know or can do themselves ... especially just to make public doubters happy. The UK would also never request to get involved like this. A country may offer their assistance but that is going to be it, they are not going to make a request because it would be highly out of line and not the way things are done.

And again, there is no reason for it as their lawyers can also have this same test done.

Edit: Their lawyers can certainly have the tests run in the UK if they didn't trust labs in Thailand.

Edited October 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[englishoak]

Still trying to open and shut case JTJ ? tsk tsk High likelihood theres more than just these two involved at different levels as im sure even you are aware of by now.

Hence the need for.....Independent investigation and DNS confirmation by professionals.... end of.

Congratulations -- at least you have come to the point of appearing to accept these two were involved.

Oh i never said they couldnt be involved only that if they were it wasnt just them and it needed proper attn from professionals. And im not saying they are involved either without a proper investigation thats independent... Its too messed up

Dude, now you can't even see your own words clearly.

"theres <sic> more than just these two involved"

This is the kind of comment you would never let go if it came from the press or police to prove what you want to believe. Personally, I think it is you slipping and admitting these guys are guilty (as they say they are) but just not ready to admit they acted alone.

OMG your not even able to read, Involved is what they already are

Be they guilty or a patsy or stitched up ... lying .. telling the truth, scared witless etc... whatever.... they are atm up on a double murder/rape rap currently with a confession maybe sitting there....with a death penalty at the end of it, you dont get much more involved than that..

Edited October 8, 2014 by englishoak

[MJP]

Please stop with the independent DNA tests as we all know that is not the way things are done. Instead they will have a biased test run by their legal team who are going to do everything in their power to benefit their clients. This is the way legal procedures work in countries not turning to another country to appease public doubts or conspiracy nuts.

Besides, an independent DNA test would simply be met with folks saying Thais contaminated or gave wrong samples for testing.

To how many people and how many times must these two say they are guilty before people believe them?

How is independent DNA testing not the way things are done? What do you mean by "things"? How can you have biased test run? DNA either matches or it doesn't.

Now I'm suspicious.

One country doesn't turn to another country in a criminal case like this to confirm what they already know or can do themselves ... especially just to make public doubters happy. The UK would also never request to get involved like this. A country may offer their assistance but that is going to be it, they are not going to make a request because it would be highly out of line and not the way things are done.

And again, there is no reason for it as their lawyers can also have this same test done.

Well, there was talk of the Thai's turning to the US FBI and Singapore for help in this matter.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Please stop with the independent DNA tests as we all know that is not the way things are done. Instead they will have a biased test run by their legal team who are going to do everything in their power to benefit their clients. This is the way legal procedures work in countries not turning to another country to appease public doubts or conspiracy nuts.

Besides, an independent DNA test would simply be met with folks saying Thais contaminated or gave wrong samples for testing.

To how many people and how many times must these two say they are guilty before people believe them?

BS, its what is wanted and what is needed....Thats what all the fuss is really about... transparency and trust

You do have a problem with the one thing that would settle things real well for all

I am a 100% advocate of going beyond an independent test and instead having their advocated (lawyers) have the test run. This is the way criminal cases work and is much better than an independent test.

[MJP]

Please stop with the independent DNA tests as we all know that is not the way things are done. Instead they will have a biased test run by their legal team who are going to do everything in their power to benefit their clients. This is the way legal procedures work in countries not turning to another country to appease public doubts or conspiracy nuts.

Besides, an independent DNA test would simply be met with folks saying Thais contaminated or gave wrong samples for testing.

To how many people and how many times must these two say they are guilty before people believe them?

BS, its what is wanted and what is needed....Thats what all the fuss is really about... transparency and trust

You do have a problem with the one thing that would settle things real well for all

I am a 100% advocate of going beyond an independent test and instead having their advocated (lawyers) have the test run. This is the way criminal cases work and is much better than an independent test.

How can anything be better than an independent test?

[minikev]

Police in Thailand have a long proven record of using scapegoats and of prosecuting the wrong person, and that is why this case needs scrutiny. It bothers many that government officials are not emphasizing a thorough investigation and fair trial to make sure they got the right person, but rather focusing on a quick conviction. There are way too many open questions, rumors of torture, and hints at a cover up at this point.

Also.... Here is a link to the article that some quotes are being pulled from. It is worth reading the whole thing.

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

I just took a look at that link. Now I'm puzzled it seems to be the opposite of this headline.

It's not done and dusted yet.

[wookienookie]

The Human Rights Commission Mr Prinya Sirisarakan represents is a government selected commission and may not be free from bias. It has been reported that many of the selected commissioners lacked experience in the field of human rights. "Article 256 of the Constitution clearly says that the human rights commissioners should have solid background and experience in the field," making the Human Rights commission both unconstitutional and unqualified.

It would seem and with some merit, that no matter how many Thai authorities they parade, only a foreign covenant will placate the global mistrust of this process.

[ATF]

One country doesn't turn to another country in a criminal case like this to confirm what they already know or can do themselves ... especially just to make public doubters happy. The UK would also never request to get involved like this. A country may offer their assistance but that is going to be it, they are not going to make a request because it would be highly out of line and not the way things are done.

And again, there is no reason for it as their lawyers can also have this same test done.

The accused have a right to have independent DNA tests done but they haven't even been allowed a lawyer yet.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Please stop with the independent DNA tests as we all know that is not the way things are done. Instead they will have a biased test run by their legal team who are going to do everything in their power to benefit their clients. This is the way legal procedures work in countries not turning to another country to appease public doubts or conspiracy nuts.

Besides, an independent DNA test would simply be met with folks saying Thais contaminated or gave wrong samples for testing.

To how many people and how many times must these two say they are guilty before people believe them?

How is independent DNA testing not the way things are done? What do you mean by "things"? How can you have biased test run? DNA either matches or it doesn't.

Now I'm suspicious.

One country doesn't turn to another country in a criminal case like this to confirm what they already know or can do themselves ... especially just to make public doubters happy. The UK would also never request to get involved like this. A country may offer their assistance but that is going to be it, they are not going to make a request because it would be highly out of line and not the way things are done.

And again, there is no reason for it as their lawyers can also have this same test done.

Well, there was talk of the Thai's turning to the US FBI and Singapore for help in this matter.

No there wasn't. There was talk of having them analyze the DNA to determine ancestry (I believe a Y-DNA test) because that could not be done in Thailand. One can only assume Thailand did send the DNA to Singapore for this test because days after announcing they would, the announced the DNA was from Asian ancestry.

Never was there any talk of sending DNA for comparison outside Thailand since that can be done here and as had been reported there were at least 3 Universities involved in the comparing of samples collected.

[canuckamuck]

I would find it more odd if this was a private meeting with their own lawyers but this was a meeting with embassy officials and human rights people and probably others.

But consider too they have already confessed and reenacted and in addition other evidence there is the DNA evidence. Seems clear there is not going to be a defense of not guilty and it is going to be about getting the death penalty off the table through their cooperation and remorse and although not likely to help (judges not stupid) them downplaying the crime by saying things like they were drunk and didn't intend to kill

Ok so you are saying that these Burmese kids embassy and human rights people arent really representing their fair and honest treatment and will just go out of their way to park the bus on them? You dont find that odd at all?

No I think as you have done with this case you are doing with my post and that is you are seeing and hearing what suites you regardless of facts or reality. While many have backed off and are coming to terms that these two are guilty (pending the official court findings) others like yourself seem to be going off the deep end and reading one thing but registering another.

It is like the more confirmation that comes out these guys are guilty (by their own accounts) the more you fight to suggest they are liars and everyone is setting them up -- now even their own embassy and a human rights group.

I think what you interpret as people backing off and coming to terms with their guilt is actually people backing off because they have been told to stop discussing alternate theories by the police. Anyhow the netizens have done their job and now the International media have the scent of a sensational frame-up. It is their turn to press for accountability and truth.

[JohnThailandJohn]

One country doesn't turn to another country in a criminal case like this to confirm what they already know or can do themselves ... especially just to make public doubters happy. The UK would also never request to get involved like this. A country may offer their assistance but that is going to be it, they are not going to make a request because it would be highly out of line and not the way things are done.

And again, there is no reason for it as their lawyers can also have this same test done.

The accused have a right to have independent DNA tests done but they haven't even been allowed a lawyer yet.

My understanding is they have lawyers but lets assume you are right, they soon will have lawyers and good ones too since an NGO has already agreed to provide them.

[englishoak]

Please stop with the independent DNA tests as we all know that is not the way things are done. Instead they will have a biased test run by their legal team who are going to do everything in their power to benefit their clients. This is the way legal procedures work in countries not turning to another country to appease public doubts or conspiracy nuts.

Besides, an independent DNA test would simply be met with folks saying Thais contaminated or gave wrong samples for testing.

To how many people and how many times must these two say they are guilty before people believe them?

BS, its what is wanted and what is needed....Thats what all the fuss is really about... transparency and trust

You do have a problem with the one thing that would settle things real well for all

I am a 100% advocate of going beyond an independent test and instead having their advocated (lawyers) have the test run. This is the way criminal cases work and is much better than an independent test.

How can anything be better than an independent test?

It cant be, unless of course theres a reason not to want independent testing

[evadgib]

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol.

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

You dont find it odd at all that people representing these two suspects, facing possible death penalty, would just come out and openly talk to the press about their conversations?

Or that the prison would allow cameras in & turn the consular aspect into a spectator sport.

Can only imagine the conspiracy theorist reaction if they had done this in secret and made no comments of what transpired. What is great about promoting conspiracies is you can do it with everything. In this case there is something very suspicious because the suspects once again confirmed their guilt and if they didn't then conspiracy theorist would win too and if nothing was said it was a coverup.

If the case has a mountain of evidence such as witnesses, video, confessions and DNA then it is suspicious because it is too neat. If there is evidence missing then that is pounced on. If the police have not share something about the case then it is a cover-up, if they do share something it is a lie, if something is reported two ways then of course it is the way that serves their purpose. It is always win win and the more their theories get debunked they just increase their efforts and come up with more until it becomes completely pathetic as it has become now with the question of these two suspects.

They would have achieved that by filming in the car park or at the gate.

[inutil]

No I think as you have done with this case you are doing with my post and that is you are seeing and hearing what suites you regardless of facts or reality. While many have backed off and are coming to terms that these two are guilty (pending the official court findings) others like yourself seem to be going off the deep end and reading one thing but registering another.

It is like the more confirmation that comes out these guys are guilty (by their own accounts) the more you fight to suggest they are liars and everyone is setting them up -- now even their own embassy and a human rights group.

Actually, if anything what you are doing is taking away information

In the first case (the one you chose to quote), Kyaw Thaung relays a very brief statement about a section of what he heard from the two suspects. He adds absolutely not one bit of his own interpretation to this story. To wit:

We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

At no point anywhere does he give his interpretation that he is satisfied or dissatisfied with this story. He is RELAYING information. Thats it. The rest of the details and accusations are made MUCH MUCH earlier in the article. Im genuinely amazed you missed them because usually people read the stuff earlier in the passage before getting to the bits in the middle. Maybe youre not like everyone else? I wouldnt want to judge...

And in those parts you find:

1. The same overall themes as relayed by Kyaw Thaung: They met the defendants, they confessed, they told how they did it and why, they claimed they were drunk at the time.

2. A claim by Aung Myo Thant that these stories were 'somewhat inconsistent'

3. A claim that they had been tortured into making their confessions

4. A claim that the forensic reports and evidence provided by the state were inconsistent

5. A claim that the case was 'a set up and not based on hard facts'

Lets now add a couple of new things;

a: we now know that the defendants claim they bashed the skulls of BOTH David and Hannah with the BLUNT end of the hoe. They are now on record as having stated this. They are very clear they did not use the sharp end.

b: They claim they were very drunk.

(both of these will provide a lot more material for people working out this case independently of the RTP).

Im surprised that you would miss all that given it was in the first 10 or so lines of the articles. Pretty hard to miss if im honest. I wonder why youd leave it out? I mean it clearly undermines any attempt to suggest that the embassy and human rights group are satisfied with the case And it certainly undermines any ridiculous claim that the embassy and human rights groups have confirmation of their guilt given that the lawyer sent by the embassy to represent them, says the exact opposite, whilst the human rights person makes no personal statement at all about their satisfaction and simply relates the story told by the defendants without judgement.

I wouldnt want to pass judgement on your own selective reading myself of course, so ill just leave you to explain how this lack of an interpretation gives you the remit to suggest that the embassy and human rights groups are satisfied with events and that this adds to the confirmation of their guilt.

Edited October 8, 2014 by inutil

[bannork]

Beer and wine?

Migrant workers?

Is wine cheap on Koh Tao?

I know in Bangkok the cheapest wine is about 350 Baht a bottle. Surely these people won't spend a days wage on a bottle of wine.

Sator, Thai rice wine, is between 20 and 25 baht per bottle in 7-11

[ATF]

My understanding is they have lawyers but lets assume you are right, they soon will have lawyers and good ones too since an NGO has already agreed to provide them.

Your understanding? Is that legal? The DNA has been corrupted and even the Islanders jeer the Police in public.

A lawyer is supposed to be there from the beginning to tell them to keep their mouths shut and put the onus on the Police to provide solid evidence. Although Thai Law does not provide a lawyer free of charge prior to a court hearing.

The whole thing is a shambles.