Universal doubts cloud 'perfect' Koh Tao murder investigation

[balo]

Let me get back to you when or if someone else from outside RTP repeat the DNA tests , then you can judge me , too early for that mate. In the mean time go ahead with your thai bashing.

.

Balo, this is not a Thai bash; this is about corrupt practices of The BIB, if you can not differentiate that, you're even more dumb than I thought you were.

I am fully aware of the corrupt practices of the BIB but I also know there are some good people that actually solves crimes in Thailand .

It's so easy on a forum like this to claim that 100% of all police officers are corrupted.

Unlike you I still see some hope for the thai police in the future whatever outcome this case will get.

[huawei]

I just read the Pornthip evaluation of the FDA evidence collection.

She has totally rubbished the procedures that were adopted, not too diplomatically either.

So that raises questions over the accuracy of the results from a very well respected ME, not that many on here didn't have a few anyway!

So any DNA evidence would be thrown out in an objective court of law, probably.

Whats left of this case against the 2 Burmese then?

From my limited experience there is no prosecuting lawyers and the police are the effective prosecutors because of it. You are thinking in western terms where the police are objective arresting agents and the evidence is turned over to a prosecuting lawyer who decides whether or not to prosecute. Even though there were 6 accused in the court I attended, I saw no prosecuting lawyer only police. I was the only one who had a defence lawyer.

This is Thailand and they have their own system here.

I was / am party to a prosecution all parties had lawyers.

Sometimes, they don't turn up or have a minor representative attend , depends at what stage of the case, what has been agreed etc..

[DennisF]

Regarding, the JTJ Group of misfits a few words if you please.

Socially incorrect in behavior, standing on guard in their usual virtual TV pedestal, entering the arena masquerading as some strong force you should ‘not reckon’ with, both guns blazing full of furor, with exaggerated zeal embroiled by discontent, thus pouring scorn on others for their personal vendetta against anyone/everyone for not having the much adored and respected place entry within the – Thai Apologist club. They’ve currently shown no understanding or concern for the horrendous murders of Hannah & David nor shown one shred of compassion for the 2 young Burmese scapegoats currently interred - in some shit-hole Thai Prison.

Thus, regardless of others being too illiterate (according to them) to become part of this vicious circle cannot take onboard’ other people have much more money and common sense, nevertheless should be thrown out the country for committing such a monstrosity against their newly found self-appointed Thaihood Faith. That, as far as they’re concerned’ is an effrontery and should not be adequate to allow anyone to stay in Thailand unless willing to become a grumpy cynical Bastard like themselves.

Time all this longstanding garbage was cleared and thrown out. Out with the OLD and in with the NEW….

I’ve become accustomed to their constant verbal abuse and no longer take it to heart. Particularly, whether I’m ridiculed with their constant vile verbosity posted as some disdainful reply or subjugated at every given moment for daring to offend these contemptuous perverse parasites. However, one should remember. If it was not for their obnoxious input, TV would not be what it is in the forum stakes since, these sullen cranky creeps keep the topics alive and kicking. Although, unfortunately, can’t say the same for their limited time here on earth.

I suppose they don’t have much else to do after moaning at their wives all day or after kicking the dog up the**ehole then getting prepared to join their sewer rat pack for the current day’s events. Thus, to see who they can patronize, including beating them to pulp with help from the other cronies with the usual line of unadulterated abuse. It’s incredible, they are so damn hostile and never ever relent.

Just an observation ……

I'll have whatever you're drinking, put some ice in it though, I'd need dilution.

[docshock13]

Some questions...

1) Why is banana pancake man wearing a golf tee with RTP insignia? Was he recently "deputized" and now legally in the employ of the RTP?

2) Prior to being the first foreign national to graduate from the RTP academy and receiving his badge (in record time I might add), was banana pancake man working and living legally on Koh Tao? If not, it makes Question #1 even more relevant.

[Oziex1]

The DNA needs to be retested in a independent lab, NO I'm not saying that why would I. It's been repeated ad nauseam, fellow posters please we have established the need for this now move on!

The repetition of this is disturbing to say the least, ok lets keep his important thread going but something other than this fixation on DNA as vital as it may be.

With or without DNA evidence this case is clearly full of holes.

[DennisF]

The DNA needs to be retested in a independent lab, NO I'm not saying that why would I. It's been repeated ad nauseam, fellow posters please we have established the need for this now move on!

The repetition of this is disturbing to say the least, ok lets keep his important thread going but something other than this fixation on DNA as vital as it may be.

With or without DNA evidence this case is clearly full of holes.

May I, hopefully on behalf of other members, certainly those that have mentioned the DNA, apologise for disturbing you.

As you can see from a previous post earlier today, I mentioned that the top forensic ME in Thailand has virtually rubbished the testing of that that from henceforth shall remain nameless in hope of returning some turb without the dis.

As it happens, the massive numbers of those mentioning that that causes disturbance has largely assisted in bringing World attention to this horrific case.

Again I am sorry you are disturbed (no pun intended) but, this issue is far bigger than your peace of turb.

edited.. bad keyboard cannot spell.

Edited October 9, 2014 by DennisF

[ScotBkk]

Some questions...

1) Why is banana pancake man wearing a golf tee with RTP insignia? Was he recently "deputized" and now legally in the employ of the RTP?

2) Prior to being the first foreign national to graduate from the RTP academy and receiving his badge (in record time I might add), was banana pancake man working and living legally on Koh Tao? If not, it makes Question #1 even more relevant.

Well, observed mate.

I never even noticed his disguise. Since, this was probably him masquerading as a RTP official to keep this farcical spectacle alive and well, adding a little more glamour to this charade of imposters trying to make out - like this is really is what happened ….

[harp73]

http://khonkaen.ws/tourism-authority-of-thailand-high-season-lies

[ScotBkk]

Regarding, the JTJ Group of misfits a few words if you please.

Socially incorrect in behavior, standing on guard in their usual virtual TV pedestal, entering the arena masquerading as some strong force you should ‘not reckon’ with, both guns blazing full of furor, with exaggerated zeal embroiled by discontent, thus pouring scorn on others for their personal vendetta against anyone/everyone for not having the much adored and respected place entry within the – Thai Apologist club. They’ve currently shown no understanding or concern for the horrendous murders of Hannah & David nor shown one shred of compassion for the 2 young Burmese scapegoats currently interred - in some shit-hole Thai Prison.

Thus, regardless of others being too illiterate (according to them) to become part of this vicious circle cannot take onboard’ other people have much more money and common sense, nevertheless should be thrown out the country for committing such a monstrosity against their newly found self-appointed Thaihood Faith. That, as far as they’re concerned’ is an effrontery and should not be adequate to allow anyone to stay in Thailand unless willing to become a grumpy cynical Bastard like themselves.

Time all this longstanding garbage was cleared and thrown out. Out with the OLD and in with the NEW….

I’ve become accustomed to their constant verbal abuse and no longer take it to heart. Particularly, whether I’m ridiculed with their constant vile verbosity posted as some disdainful reply or subjugated at every given moment for daring to offend these contemptuous perverse parasites. However, one should remember. If it was not for their obnoxious input, TV would not be what it is in the forum stakes since, these sullen cranky creeps keep the topics alive and kicking. Although, unfortunately, can’t say the same for their limited time here on earth.

I suppose they don’t have much else to do after moaning at their wives all day or after kicking the dog up the**ehole then getting prepared to join their sewer rat pack for the current day’s events. Thus, to see who they can patronize, including beating them to pulp with help from the other cronies with the usual line of unadulterated abuse. It’s incredible, they are so damn hostile and never ever relent.

Just an observation ……

I'll have whatever you're drinking, put some ice in it though, I'd need dilution.

Us Scottish NEVER dilute our whisky unless its a top-up with more of the golden Juice.............

[ScotBkk]

...Best thing we can all do is what I have done. Impose a lifetime boycott on that sorry, pathetic, crime and drug infested island of Tao.....

Extend the boycott to all of Thailand as the Bkk elites are part of this cover up.

My family has for quite some time boycotted Thai goods due to their abuses of workers (as Andy Hall has documented) and other issues. My wife is a Thai citizen and fully supports this. Short term pain may lead to long term gain.

Cheers.

I am not sure you can refer to the headman, and his son as Thai elites. It would be a bit like calling a Manchester street thug a duke, or nobleman. Or a Compton crip gang member an Earl. No, they are just a super lucky, super rich group of immoral thugs, who were in the right place, at the right time, and are without an ethical bone in their bodies. They do as they wish, since they know they are untouchable, and above the law. They know not even the Army or the generals have the guts to bring them down, as that would constitute rocking the boat, upsetting the apple cart, or denying the status quo, which they have been avoiding since they were infants. So, not sure how they can be referred to as elite. The only thing that is elite about these Tao families is that amount of cash they have. Many of the elite in Bangkok at least have class, sophistication, a good education, have traveled overseas, and know something about the world. These insects? What do they know of the world? What do they know of anything except what cash buys? Did the headman send his son to an overseas school, to try to instill a sense of the world in this creep? Did he send him to a military academy to try to instill some discipline in him? Did he do anything to get this freak under control? The resounding answer is NO. They are only familiar with their own hives. And they know in their Tao hives, they are the alpha males. David, of course did not realize this.

The army can easily put this to rest,

arrest the headman, arrest his family, and test them,

and if they fail,

hang them, take their money, and install one of their own

that is what I would expect

Best statement you've ever made Stevey Boy and funny hahaha

[thailandchilli]

A statement from Hannah's family indicates that they are not happy with the current investigation

"As a family we hope that the right people are found and brought to justice," the statement, released ahead of Ms Witheridge's funeral on Friday, said.

Lifted from the latest report published today http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11150569/Thai-murder-suspects-retract-confessions.html

[docshock13]

Some questions...

1) Why is banana pancake man wearing a golf tee with RTP insignia? Was he recently "deputized" and now legally in the employ of the RTP?

2) Prior to being the first foreign national to graduate from the RTP academy and receiving his badge (in record time I might add), was banana pancake man working and living legally on Koh Tao? If not, it makes Question #1 even more relevant.

Well, observed mate.

I never even noticed his disguise. Since, this was probably him masquerading as a RTP official to keep this farcical spectacle alive and well, adding a little more glamour to this charade of imposters trying to make out - like this is really is what happened ….

My thoughts exactly. The white-washing, sleight of hand (or uniforms in this case), inconsistencies and changing theories of the RTP have turned this tragedy into a travesty. I am not assigning guilt to or presuming the innocence of any of the parties implicated in this case so far, just raising some questions about the case that remain to be answered. It just seems that at every new development, there is a purposeful misdirection on the part of the authorities to make the difficult questions go away. It appears they decided early on how the case would turn out and are now trying to fit "evidence" to match up with their desired outcome instead of the other way around--letting the evidence tell the story.

Early on in the case when the RTP claimed the murders were a crime of passion perpetrated by a spurned lover who flew into a jealous homosexual rage, the police (after preliminary investigation) concluded that there were at least 3 perpetrators and 2 weapons (the 3 perps and 2 weapons part being about the only plausible thing they have said about the whole case). However, as the focus of the investigation turned to a Thai national and then to undocumented migrant workers,this theory seems to have been abandoned. It appears that now the RTP "have their guys," the 3 perpetrators and 2 weapons theory is gone with the wind--unless we are to believe the second weapon was the plastic dust collector seen in the "re-enactment." My question is, what happened to the third (or possibly 4th or 5th) perp? It stretches my imagination to understand how only two individuals could simultaneously assault Mr. Miller and drown him (while he was evidently fighting back) and subdue, sexually assault and murder Ms. Witheridge.

My second question is, early media reports claimed the RTP sent DNA samples to Singapore for analysis. Are the RTP willing to provide the name of the agency or private lab in Singapore to confirm the DNA analysis was indeed conducted offshore? Are the RTP willing to publish the results of the analysis for public scrutiny? This would certainly lend some credibility to their claims. As it stands, I haven't seen anything to date that indicates that any DNA left Thailand.

Finally, if the university in Bangkok was willing to handover CCTV footage to the lawyer representing Mr. Warot (which many have claimed was doctored), would the university be willing to make available to the public the same footage without the interference of an intermediary who is being paid to protect the interests of his client? This would also lend some credibility to official RTP story.

Edited October 9, 2014 by docshock13

[jcisco]

The ex general, now PM, can rekindle some of his waning magic, by insisting on new DNA samples being taken from all current and previous suspects, this being carried out by UK approved doctors/clinics.

Nitpicking but if you mean UK approved MD's to do the testing or taking the samples. You will find that the best testers are far from MD's....... and rather very skilled lab operators.

Not hard to take a DNA sample and keep it uncontaiminated when its coming from a living person. Scratch, swab, jab, wipe... whatever.....

[DennisF]

Today is the first day since this tragedy we have not had a statement form the investigating team.

Its also the second day certain members havent posted.

There is definitely something in the wind

[HenryC]

The headmans offer of 1MilBt to anyone who can prove his families involvement is very suspect in a perverse way and I believe offers an insight into the thinking of these people. That is, they have money, not scared to use it, can't touch me. Disgusting given the recent developments.

How about giving your DNA, or the runts?

Going to be interesting to see how this develops, screws are really turning now.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Today is the first day since this tragedy we have not had a statement form the investigating team.

Its also the second day certain members havent posted.

There is definitely something in the wind

They are all running for the hills.

[MrJohnson]

I think that unless somebody comes up with a unique solution for RTP to come out of this face unscathed that they will stand their ground and push for a fast-track trial on he basis of confessions. There is to much at stake for them otherwise. I wouldn't out too much faith in the weight of public (foreign) opinion. the RTP don't care too much about that nor does the current government. All focus of the current government is on domestic politics. I hope I am wrong.

[AGareth2]

Today is the first day since this tragedy we have not had a statement form the investigating team.

Its also the second day certain members havent posted.

There is definitely something in the wind

you can smell it

[DennisF]

I think that unless somebody comes up with a unique solution for RTP to come out of this face unscathed that they will stand their ground and push for a fast-track trial on he basis of confessions. There is to much at stake for them otherwise. I wouldn't out too much faith in the weight of public (foreign) opinion. the RTP don't care too much about that nor does the current government. All focus of the current government is on domestic politics. I hope I am wrong.

I thin you might be slightly off.

They do depend on the tourist money and it is in savage decline right now so care or not I feel they will have to raise a Thai smile and

succumb eventually.

Bit of a minefield for the good general.

[Norvabc]

How can we know David was attacked by a left handed person?

I must admit that his wounds don't look like what I'd expect to see from a hoe, especially the blunt side but I'm not basing this on any scientific understanding.

This is my biggest doubt in relation to David being attacked with a knife: in a struggle with someone who brandished a knife, wouldn't you expect more slash wounds to David's arms and body? I can't bring myself to believe the attacker would primarily stab into David's skull during a fight- I just can't get the image.

Think about it, it is said to be a knuckle knife held between your fingers a punch knife and yes that kind of knife would be suited for head and neck bunches less effect on the body.

[upsidedown]

If you read some of the accounts in the international newspapers linked above, you might assume that the unfortunate victims were having a late night stroll on the beach enjoying the (maybe) moonlit view of the Gulf of Siam before they were assaulted.

The Australian one in particular states: It is still unclear what prompted the killings.

So what prompted these tragic murders then?

loss of face & rejection & entitlement

[Wilsonandson]

How can we know David was attacked by a left handed person?

I must admit that his wounds don't look like what I'd expect to see from a hoe, especially the blunt side but I'm not basing this on any scientific understanding.

This is my biggest doubt in relation to David being attacked with a knife: in a struggle with someone who brandished a knife, wouldn't you expect more slash wounds to David's arms and body? I can't bring myself to believe the attacker would primarily stab into David's skull during a fight- I just can't get the image.

Think about it, it is said to be a knuckle knife held between your fingers a punch knife and yes that kind of knife would be suited for head and neck bunches less effect on the body.

A push dagger. Used in phillipines martial arts Kali.

[Wilsonandson]

You can buy push daggers at most normal fruit and vegetable markets.

http://www.fightpassport.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/weaponry-1.jpg

[JLCrab]

If you read some of the accounts in the international newspapers linked above, you might assume that the unfortunate victims were having a late night stroll on the beach enjoying the (maybe) moonlit view of the Gulf of Siam before they were assaulted.

The Australian one in particular states: It is still unclear what prompted the killings.

So what prompted these tragic murders then?

loss of face & rejection & entitlement

So was this the first time some farang tourist girl told the guy that she had a headache?

[Oziex1]

Anyone know what's happening on Ko Tao now?

Tourists, diving, partying, business as usual?

[upsidedown]

If you read some of the accounts in the international newspapers linked above, you might assume that the unfortunate victims were having a late night stroll on the beach enjoying the (maybe) moonlit view of the Gulf of Siam before they were assaulted.

The Australian one in particular states: It is still unclear what prompted the killings.

So what prompted these tragic murders then?

loss of face & rejection & entitlement

So was this the first time some farang tourist girl told the guy that she had a headache?

i doubt it, and i also doubt its the first time a girl was raped on the island. Read what the Thais are saying on csi la facebook page. Theres one thai lady,(now living abroad) and according to her she was raped by a local "influential" figure and when she reported it to the police she was told shes over 25 must be her fault,,they told her to take the money the "influential" figure was offering, and leave the island. Make of it what you will. Maybe this was the first time they got caught hence david murdered and then covering up of the witness.

[Wilsonandson]

Anyone know what's happening on Ko Tao now?

Tourists, diving, partying, business as usual?

Mon, Nom Sod and Sean are stalking another blond, young, beautiful, female westerner?

[ParadiseLost]

Today is the first day since this tragedy we have not had a statement form the investigating team.

Its also the second day certain members havent posted.

There is definitely something in the wind

A Trailer Park Boys Fan? In this little 0:48 sec moment of light relief, Bubbles would represent the bib at the top of this pile...

Not offensive, please don't remove.

[Wilsonandson]

One thing about this case that I don't understand, why kill them with a hoe? I think that they were probably drowned first then their bodies were mutilated by the hoe to make it look like migrant workers had done it.

[intune53]

Sean Mcanna is alive with time on his hands to write songs. He uploaded two new songs to his soundcloud four days ago: "Johnny" and "wrong leg, right wing"

People are adding comments to these songs on soundcloud, urging him to issue a full statement.I urge others to do the same thing.

https://soundcloud.com/seanmcanna

Does he know anything?

Please Sean. Stop being cryptic and illusive and release a full statement about what you know/or don't know.

(And please god speak up about the case or it will just look like you are cynically exploiting the current public interest in you to promote your music)