Koh Tao murder report: Prosecutors seek changes

[jdinasia]

If the HRC rep in this article is being honest then yes. The thing is, it goes to trial. The rantings of conspiracy theorists changes nothing.

It may well go to trial. I woudn't call Dr Pornthip a conspiracy theorist though. Step aside from the theories then. Do you have faith in the integrity of the RTP on this case and in general. Do you feel in anyway they may have earned any doubt cast upon them?

Irrelevant.

I know firsthand of honest and dishonest police officers in more than one country.

I did not refer to Dr. Pornthip as a conspiracy theorist. Many people do question her credibility after her statements re: GT2000.

[Rykbanlor]

As far as conspiracy theories go, they usually seem to be a lot more fantastical than any theories I hear bandied around here. There no smoke without fire and the Police are incompetent and corrupt, no doubt.

It may well go to trial and sure ain't nothing we can do about that right here.

But there is growing momentum behind some 'alternative' views of this case that to me seem to be less consistent with your average conspiracy theory.

[Rykbanlor]

If the HRC rep in this article is being honest then yes. The thing is, it goes to trial. The rantings of conspiracy theorists changes nothing.

It may well go to trial. I woudn't call Dr Pornthip a conspiracy theorist though. Step aside from the theories then. Do you have faith in the integrity of the RTP on this case and in general. Do you feel in anyway they may have earned any doubt cast upon them?

Irrelevant.

I know firsthand of honest and dishonest police officers in more than one country.

I did not refer to Dr. Pornthip as a conspiracy theorist. Many people do question her credibility after her statements re: GT2000.

Well, her expertise is in forensics, not that kind of technology, I thought.

The conduct of the Police is Irrelevant?

[jdinasia]

If the HRC rep in this article is being honest then yes. The thing is, it goes to trial. The rantings of conspiracy theorists changes nothing.

It may well go to trial. I woudn't call Dr Pornthip a conspiracy theorist though. Step aside from the theories then. Do you have faith in the integrity of the RTP on this case and in general. Do you feel in anyway they may have earned any doubt cast upon them?

Irrelevant.

I know firsthand of honest and dishonest police officers in more than one country.

I did not refer to Dr. Pornthip as a conspiracy theorist. Many people do question her credibility after her statements re: GT2000.

Well, her expertise is in forensics, not that kind of technology, I thought.

The conduct of the Police is Irrelevant?

Detection of traces of evidence is forensics.

My feelings are irrelevant. The facts of the case are relevant. That requires a trial.

[khunPer]

»Some 90 per cent of the roughly 15,000 rooms on Koh Tao have been occupied, and around Bt100 million would be spent last night on Full Moon events alone, said the source.«

Little surprised that Koh Tao also have a Full Moon Party and that many rooms, 15,000 - is that really so...?

[ClutchClark]

As I have stated time and again, everyone keeps insisting Mon and family be DNA tested against the DNA found on Hanna. As this article makes perfectly clear, the DNA on Hanna was not collected by a forensic pathologist and therefore, is likely contaminated and inadmissible. So it is not reasonable to conclude a sample provided by Mon and/or his kin guarantees they are guilty.

Everyone keeps clamoring about a fair and honest investigation, well you can't have that if you are going to rely on DNA evidence that was improperly collected. Any conviction would have to rely on other evidence.

Serious question. If the DNA from the island family can not be used as evidence, how can the DNA from the 2 guys be used as evidence ?

You have stumped me with that one.

You can read through every post I have made and you will not find one time where I suggested the DNA evidence can or should be trusted in the arrest or identification of anyone--including the two Burmese.

That is what I have been attempting to tell everyone here who keeps clamoring about testing the Mon family.

Thanks for finally listening.

I must apologise to you Mr. Clark I must have mistaken you for another poster! I thought you were one of the guys who have insisted every line uttered has been true, no matter how many times it has been changed.

The point which I have stated repeatedly is that I am not willing to declare these two Burmese men innocent victims simply because their newly appointed defense attorney says they are innocent.

The other point I have made from day One is agsinst a bigoted undercurrent that has existed in several members' posts against Thailand and Thais because they insist the killers must be Thai due to the violent nature of the attacks and they want to see tourism destroyed on KT to retaliate.

[canuckamuck]

It doesn't take Dr. Pornthip to determine this investigation is FUBAR

[jdinasia]

As far as conspiracy theories go, they usually seem to be a lot more fantastical than any theories I hear bandied around here. There no smoke without fire and the Police are incompetent and corrupt, no doubt.

It may well go to trial and sure ain't nothing we can do about that right here.

But there is growing momentum behind some 'alternative' views of this case that to me seem to be less consistent with your average conspiracy theory.

Serious question :

Do any conspiracy theorists think that they have it wrong? Isn't there always some thing or things they focus on while ignoring other more salient things? On this case the renewed admission of guilt?

[bertty]

Indeed the facts are relevant and unless you have not noticed the facts have been sent back to the police as being fiction.

But hey lets not have that get in the way of your 'Men in Uniform' love fest.

[bertty]

Serious question. If the DNA from the island family can not be used as evidence, how can the DNA from the 2 guys be used as evidence ?

You have stumped me with that one.

You can read through every post I have made and you will not find one time where I suggested the DNA evidence can or should be trusted in the arrest or identification of anyone--including the two Burmese.

That is what I have been attempting to tell everyone here who keeps clamoring about testing the Mon family.

Thanks for finally listening.

I must apologise to you Mr. Clark I must have mistaken you for another poster! I thought you were one of the guys who have insisted every line uttered has been true, no matter how many times it has been changed.

The point which I have stated repeatedly is that I am not willing to declare these two Burmese men innocent victims simply because their newly appointed defense attorney says they are innocent.

The other point I have made from day One is agsinst a bigoted undercurrent that has existed in several members' posts against Thailand and Thais because they insist the killers must be Thai due to the violent nature of the attacks and they want to see tourism destroyed on KT to retaliate.

We will disagree there. I have had them down as innocent since day 1 and the more this gets played out the more clearer it becomes they are innocent.

There has been nothing to link them to the crime from day one.

They just happen to be Burmese, and people in power really never expected a response as has happened.

As for hoping it is Thai people. Not me. Just get those who did it and we will all be happy. Even if they come from Mars.

[JLCrab]

Indeed the facts are relevant and unless you have not noticed the facts have been sent back to the police as being fiction.

But hey lets not have that get in the way of your 'Men in Uniform' love fest.

SURAT THANI-BASED public prosecutors yesterday returned the police's investigation report into the murder of two British tourists last month to the officers that had produced it, asking them to supply "more crucial information".

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Prosecutors-seek-changes-30245052.html

[Rykbanlor]

Just to appease some previous posters - I am neither a conspiracy theorist or a bigot. I am pretty sure no-one would have made that mistake. I am not adamant a Thai must have done it just to be bloody minded.

I believe what I do due to the unofficial evidence that I have been able to see and the strong doubts behind all the evidence the Police have supplied.

I beleive the DNA testing is now untrustworthy (whether or not it is admissable in this case)

I believe the confessions were given under duress and have been repeated under fear of violence.

What other evidence have the B-boys got?

[rick182]

Even Hannahs parents don't think its them they have been quoted as saying "whoevers responsible"

[Rimmer]

An Inflammatory post and an off topic post about USA removed also some quoted replies to same

[wackybacky]

In many (if not all) countries in the world... DNA evidence on its own regardless of any other (so called) evidence... would be enough on its own to secure a conviction. Let alone be accepted by a public prosecutor to be able to set up a court hearing.

So it MUST BE that the DNA evidence itself is 'in doubt'.

That to me speaks volumes.

Also I find it rather strange that the suspects were questioned by two groups together... the Thai NHRC and Myanmar Embassy reps and lawyers and both groups have managed to walk out of the room with different stories.

The Burmese lawyers and Embassy staff are saying they denied doing it and only confessed after they were beaten and scalded and threatened by electrocution. This being backed up by the police 'witness' who has also reported torture and beating to get him to testify, then later retracting his accusations and saying they were totally innocent.

Then you have the 'Thai' NHRC commissioner saying that they 'insisted' that they were the killers.

Why such a polarised set of statements?... I think you have to understand here that the representative from the 'Thai' camp is NOT singing off the same song sheet as the Burmese camp.

Equally strange how the 'Thai' NHRC commissioner seems to be coming down on the side of exactly where Prayuth and the RTP want it to come down.

Just tells me what I have always said about Thailand...... Everyone here can be coerced for the right price.

[CantSpell]

The DNA from the two men comes from a cigarette they had both smoked. That is the hottest lead the investigation has.

Actually in proper order:

They stated at beginning that they found same DNA on a cigarette butt than they found in victim.

They tested the 2 guys and never declared a match during the big round of testing.

Then last Thursday they said the two guys tested positive..

[JoeLing]

Its very close. I am reminded that they, David and Hanna left the AC bar together. Perhaps the only change I would make is they were lured to the spot together and he was killed before they even began to rape her but she certainly saw him die.

When I wrote that I was unaware of Seans supposed past of date rape and helping Mon with this before. SteveFong has suggested maybe between 3-5 people raped Hanna. I believe that's how many probably set to David first. We all know how Thais like to fight 5 to 1 and never 1 on 1.

I doubt Sean will ever speak up. Not now that his date rape activities have been exposed. Perhaps he has been paid off or just happy to be put with his life.Not sure now if Sean is guilty of rape or not. He probably did but they couldn't just finger him as he would have named the others and what then. All DNA tested and all guilty. Better to ether kill him or have him run out of town shit scared never to talk again. If all he did was help lure then I think he would talk but his silence tells me he probably raped her but didn't kill her.

I think u can put a line thru the Thai DNA testing. Was it ever even done. I doubt it. Its said Mon had scratches on him so his DNA would likely be under Hanna's finger nails. Let's face it, the bottom line is if you had nothing to hide and wanted to clear your name u would be screaming the house down to be checked. Sadly Mon and co refused which clearly makes them as guilty as sin. There is no other reason to not b tested.

I believe the condom was probably unrolled and pushed/ rubbed inside Hanna just to make the story more confusing hence no DNA inside.

The only way I would ever allow my DNA to be tested is by court order.

Its a complete invasion of privacy...atleast to most Americans.

More or less exactly what egyptian Mummies and the Dinosaurus said as well

.... if they would have been Americans

[mcm991]

http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/05/13/thailand-replace-flawed-rights-panel

"None of the new human rights commissioners has a reputation for working on human rights," said Adams. "The prominent human rights professionals who applied were ignored, calling into question whether the commission will be serious or has been set up to serve entrenched interests."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Then you have the 'Thai' NHRC commissioner saying that they 'insisted' that they were the killers.

Why such a polarised set of statements?... I think you have to understand here that the representative from the 'Thai' camp is NOT singing off the same song sheet as the Burmese camp.

Equally strange how the 'Thai' NHRC commissioner seems to be coming down on the side of exactly where Prayuth and the RTP want it to come down.

Just tells me what I have always said about Thailand...... Everyone here can be coerced for the right price.

[bertty]

The DNA from the two men comes from a cigarette they had both smoked. That is the hottest lead the investigation has.

Actually in proper order:

They stated at beginning that they found same DNA on a cigarette butt than they found in victim.

They tested the 2 guys and never declared a match during the big round of testing.

Then last Thursday they said the two guys tested positive..

Oh my.

[lausie]

I posted this on another thread, so hope its ok to duplicate on this one...

For anyone interested, the CSI LA page spotted that Sean McAnna uploaded two songs to Soundcloud on 4th October, so it looks like he's alive, unless someone has access to his stuff - https://soundcloud.com/seanmcanna

There are some interesting lyrics in the track 'Johnny' - 1:38 "I'm still waiting at the hotel bar. They beg of you, but they don't need you, still they won't let you go. And I, I, so near so far...'. Might be nothing, but could be a message in there somewhere.

[jdinasia]

Serious question. If the DNA from the island family can not be used as evidence, how can the DNA from the 2 guys be used as evidence ?

You have stumped me with that one.

You can read through every post I have made and you will not find one time where I suggested the DNA evidence can or should be trusted in the arrest or identification of anyone--including the two Burmese.

That is what I have been attempting to tell everyone here who keeps clamoring about testing the Mon family.

Thanks for finally listening.

I must apologise to you Mr. Clark I must have mistaken you for another poster! I thought you were one of the guys who have insisted every line uttered has been true, no matter how many times it has been changed.

The point which I have stated repeatedly is that I am not willing to declare these two Burmese men innocent victims simply because their newly appointed defense attorney says they are innocent.

The other point I have made from day One is agsinst a bigoted undercurrent that has existed in several members' posts against Thailand and Thais because they insist the killers must be Thai due to the violent nature of the attacks and they want to see tourism destroyed on KT to retaliate.

We will disagree there. I have had them down as innocent since day 1 and the more this gets played out the more clearer it becomes they are innocent.

There has been nothing to link them to the crime from day one.

They just happen to be Burmese, and people in power really never expected a response as has happened.

As for hoping it is Thai people. Not me. Just get those who did it and we will all be happy. Even if they come from Mars.

Burmese : yes

At the crime scene : yes

Confessions : yes (apparently 3 times)

DNA : yes.

CCTV : yes

Oh well...

[dondon950]

The DNA they have has most likely been cross contaminated.. there would also surely be fingerprints, fibre, sweat etc DNA of the perp.. there is certainly lots more CCTV which I'm sure will tell a story. They must have CCTV of either them leaving together or each on their own.. Why have they not shown any CCTV of either of them as they left the bars..?!? maybe because it would also implicate others..

[jdinasia]

Seems the prosecutor doesn't agree with Somyot's announcement on Tuesday that the investigators have done a 'perfect job'.

Does it??

Or did the prosecution ask for changes in the paperwork?

[Rykbanlor]

JDin Asia - You got em bang to rights then, with all that evidence.

You have convinced me. I shouldn't have doubted the integrity of the Cops.

Lets crack open a bottle

[Rykbanlor]

And what of the fact that no Forensic Pathologist was called in and the Police did it themselves?

That casts absolutely no doubt in your mind?

[kimamey]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

Maybe just translation but it might also be that they needed to make it clear for some reason. It's not something I would expect in a normal confession. It would fit if the confessions were down to some coercion, possibly linked to threats to other people. I'm not saying that's the case but it might explain the 'insisting'.

I'm wondering about the tourist increase as well as it appears to be largely due to the full moon party rather than a general trend.

[Fatty123]

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

Although i Absolutely do not believe these two acted alone.

I would like to believe that these young boys were not involved at all.

Still, people should prepare themselves for the fact that the boys may be in part responsible for some sections of the crime.

That is why i will not contribute to a fund defending them.

Though i would contribute to a fund to pay a private person to investigate the truth of what happened. Namely how david died, since it is not possible for him to have been hit with a hoe. As it had not David dna. And who used the condom, . And the sequence of events how it happened. And who are the other culprits.

Yup. What if they did it? I thoght they were stitched up, but if the dude from HRC says that they are insisting they did the crime...perhaps they actually did. I remember the case of the West Memphis Three. Three documentaries (now four and a Hollywood movie) showed their innocence in the case of the murder of three eight year old boys. Hollywood jumped to their aid and now they're free (although still guilty in the eyes of the law). Great, huh? Well, the cops got pissed off and released all the case files online. Video interviews. The lot. Seems those 'documentaries' left a lot out. And they actually look guilty when you look at the whole picture.

Wait before commiting money to their aid.

[MikePhuket1970]

Seems the prosecutor doesn't agree with Somyot's announcement on Tuesday that the investigators have done a 'perfect job'.

Does it??

Or did the prosecution ask for changes in the paperwork?

A perfect job looks quite different unless you are a torture and pancake fan.

cctv : modified for cover and frame up

DNA : Mon has given DNA,was cleared way to fast.Another cover up

Nomsod,the main suspect,still protected by corruption

[jdinasia]

Seems the prosecutor doesn't agree with Somyot's announcement on Tuesday that the investigators have done a 'perfect job'.

Does it??

Or did the prosecution ask for changes in the paperwork?

A perfect job looks quite different unless you are a torture and pancake fan.

cctv : modified for cover and frame up

DNA : Mon has given DNA,was cleared way to fast.Another cover up

Nomsod,the main suspect,still protected by corruption

Anything from your list cited by the prosecution? No.

Any of those statements facts? No.

[ClutchClark]

I posted this on another thread, so hope its ok to duplicate on this one...

For anyone interested, the CSI LA page spotted that Sean McAnna uploaded two songs to Soundcloud on 4th October, so it looks like he's alive, unless someone has access to his stuff - https://soundcloud.com/seanmcanna

There are some interesting lyrics in the track 'Johnny' - 1:38 "I'm still waiting at the hotel bar. They beg of you, but they don't need you, still they won't let you go. And I, I, so near so far...'. Might be nothing, but could be a message in there somewhere.

And if you play it backwards it sounds very much like Satanic messages.