Anyone Here Have Success With Buying, Renovating and Selling Property

[ldnguy]

Just wondering if anyone here has some success stories with buying a condo or house for renovation and resale? This is fairly easy to do in the UK, but I don't really know of anyone doing it here. I also see very slow property sales, which would hinder the selling side.

What are your experiences? I'd need to make a minimum of 500K baht profit.

There are some houses around that would be beautiful if renovated, but I don't see much of this going on, so assume that they might be difficult to sell. There is also the problem that other buildings in the same street would tend not to get renovated. I see some cleaned up and renovated a little but not much in the way of full-scale renovation.

Not really interested in negative comments about not being able to buy houses, as I can buy in a Thai name. And not interested in don't buy here type of comments. Looking for info from people that have actually done this.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ldnguy

[beachproperty]

I, for one, have bought, renovated, and sold for a profit.

Differnce for me though, is the properties I bought, I have lived in them, so did not have to carry another property for renovation purposes! And if the property doesn't sell, so what, its my home! Always need a place to sleep!

Also ...when it comes time to sell....well...said it before ....will say it again...Easy to buy ...Hard to sell.

Hope you have an "eye" for the good deals because you may get stuck with a "lemon". As always, the caveat in real estate is "location, location, location"

Lastly ....don't overpay (obviously) but here in Thailand ....the Thai's seem to ask ridiculous prices for property ....not so easy to find the distress seller.

Good luck though!

[Crossy]

A number of name calling posts and the replies removed (actually seems to have been most of the thread).

Let's keep it civil shall we.

[givenall]

Good luck

unreliable workers, and Thais wanting new stuff (properties) make it very difficult

[ldnguy]

I, for one, have bought, renovated, and sold for a profit.

Differnce for me though, is the properties I bought, I have lived in them, so did not have to carry another property for renovation purposes! And if the property doesn't sell, so what, its my home! Always need a place to sleep!

Also ...when it comes time to sell....well...said it before ....will say it again...Easy to buy ...Hard to sell.

Hope you have an "eye" for the good deals because you may get stuck with a "lemon". As always, the caveat in real estate is "location, location, location"

Lastly ....don't overpay (obviously) but here in Thailand ....the Thai's seem to ask ridiculous prices for property ....not so easy to find the distress seller.

Good luck though!

One of my ideas was to buy where I'd want to live and then live in it until it sold. If it never sold, not big deal because I could always use it as a home. I now some Thai people that have a number of properties that they rent out but are also on sale for what seems like a ridiculous price. Occasionally one does sell, and in the meantime they're getting rental income. But these are mostly people that can pay with cash and don't actually need the money, so they can sit and wait for years. I prefer a quicker turnover, otherwise I get too bored.

I lived in a condo building a while back where a condo was on sale for 5 million. A year later it hadn't sold so they put the price up to 5.5 million. Seems like they can wait, and like you say, not many distressed sellers at all. It's finding that bargain that seems to be a difficult part as well as the selling part. I think farangs sellers are better if you want a better price, as some want to leave Thailand and are more happy to just get less.

What area did you do this and how many properties and how much profit. Don't need to know all your info, just trying to get a rough idea.

[ldnguy]

Good luck

unreliable workers, and Thais wanting new stuff (properties) make it very difficult

II know some reliable workers, so that's not a problem for me.

Maybe most Thais want new property (or maybe not), but it's a myth that they don't buy old property. I know many Thais that have bought old property. I didn't see much difference here to the UK. Lots of new condos in places like Bangkok, so of course people will be buying them, but plenty buying older houses in central Bangkok. Most Thai people that I ask about this say it's not true, and I suppose they know best. As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. A Thai person just bough an old house in my street, so there you go.

[KittenKong]

The high cost of selling property here (~6% in taxes plus eventual agents' fees) might make it a bit harder to show a profit than it would be in other countries.

[ldnguy]

The high cost of selling property here (~6% in taxes plus eventual agents' fees) might make it a bit harder to show a profit than it would be in other countries.

Maybe that helps explains why there are so many dilapidated houses in Thailand.

[worgeordie]

Its very difficult to find any bargains now,sellers are asking too much no matter

what condition they are in,the market here does not work the same as in the West,

there is not the same pressure to foreclose from the banks, and any properties on

their books are usually crap and expensive, any good properties are sold to friends

of the banks.

10+ years ago we managed to purchase some properties at very good prices and

in very good areas,they were renovated to a good standard, which we rented out,

and all have recouped the cost making good profit,plus i am sure we could at least

double our money if sold.we just went into this as money in the bank was slowly

evaporating due to inflation.

regards worgeordie

[Canada]

There seems to be a glut of property for sale. Like someone else said, easy to buy, hard to sell.

I've bought a few pieces and could sell them all at a very good profit, but I bought on my terms and bought well. First criteria is always "resale-ability".

[Canada]

Second criteria...."can I endure not selling it?"

[trogers]

This is a business model that only works after a crash, during the downturn of the property cycle when you can buy cheap and hold to sell at the upswing.

And you should sell them before the first wave of new developments complete their construction during the upswing. Thereafter, you would be competing with easy financial terms of offplan projects.

[bitcoinbob]

in my experience thai's like to buy new , they only renovate there own house when they can not sell there main house to buy newer more expensive.

[umbanda]

When I was living in Jitaree 2, a very nice gated community with clubhouse outside Lampang, were very many houses under bank foreclosure sale, abandoned for years. Most around 10 years old, 2 stories, 3 bedrooms. A Thai contractor bought one, on a nice corner lot. The bank was asking 1.7 million, he got it for 1.2 miliion and its did a very nice cosmetic job in 2 months spending 60.000thb. When I moved out Lampang, the house was for sale for 2.5 million asking price. I do not know if sold, but that was the contractor main business.

[ldnguy]

When I was living in Jitaree 2, a very nice gated community with clubhouse outside Lampang, were very many houses under bank foreclosure sale, abandoned for years. Most around 10 years old, 2 stories, 3 bedrooms. A Thai contractor bought one, on a nice corner lot. The bank was asking 1.7 million, he got it for 1.2 miliion and its did a very nice cosmetic job in 2 months spending 60.000thb. When I moved out Lampang, the house was for sale for 2.5 million asking price. I do not know if sold, but that was the contractor main business.

I think it's probably easier for contractors like this to get good deals from the banks because they'll buy many properties. But not so easy for an individual. But as it's their business I suppose it must work for them. They probably know the area and market very well though, so know exactly what to buy.

[ldnguy]

Its very difficult to find any bargains now,sellers are asking too much no matter

what condition they are in,the market here does not work the same as in the West,

there is not the same pressure to foreclose from the banks, and any properties on

their books are usually crap and expensive, any good properties are sold to friends

of the banks.

10+ years ago we managed to purchase some properties at very good prices and

in very good areas,they were renovated to a good standard, which we rented out,

and all have recouped the cost making good profit,plus i am sure we could at least

double our money if sold.we just went into this as money in the bank was slowly

evaporating due to inflation.

regards worgeordie

I think finding the bargains is where the whole idea falls down. Most places I see seem as if they would be way overpriced after renovation, never mind before.

[OnMyWay2]

You would need to get the property at a huge discount due to the condition.

I haven't seen much of that in Thailand. Maybe if you find something in such bad condition that its basically unliveable.

[falang07]

taking into account the huge oversupply of new projects, I say no way

[Robert2006]

When real estate investing is concerned it seems people think good deals are somewhat easy to find, I can assure you they are not. Unless you get lucky finding a good buy is a lot of work, like sometimes having to look at 100 to 200 properties to find a deal that makes sense.

When I find a property I’m interested in I determine what I want to pay for it and I instantly make an offer, a written offer, usually in the form of a simple “letter of intent”. You should be making at least 5 offers a week because most of them will be rejected. You need to be good at estimating property values, that skill comes from looking at property every day, day in and day out. If you can get a group of investors together, (your own private equity group) sometimes you can get good deals from banks, as an example buying 10 to 15 properties all at one time from a banks foreclosed property collection. During the due diligence period have your team estimate the renovation; your attorney check for clear title, if there are expensive surprises renegotiate your price or walk away. Personally I like speed so I’ll give a 14 day inspection period, close in 21 days, no one’s time is wasted theirs or mine. You must have your team in place and ready to do quick evaluations, if I need more than 14 days I extend the inspection period.

This is the ditch digging of the real estate investment business, no one likes to do it, its tedious and time consuming but it works. Most investors are too lazy to spend the time and effort it takes to find the good deals, you should be working at it 6-8 hours a day. Just keep looking and making offers and you will find success and remember the money is made when you buy.

[timewilltell]

When real estate investing is concerned it seems people think good deals are somewhat easy to find, I can assure you they are not. Unless you get lucky finding a good buy is a lot of work, like sometimes having to look at 100 to 200 properties to find a deal that makes sense.

When I find a property I’m interested in I determine what I want to pay for it and I instantly make an offer, a written offer, usually in the form of a simple “letter of intent”. You should be making at least 5 offers a week because most of them will be rejected. You need to be good at estimating property values, that skill comes from looking at property every day, day in and day out. If you can get a group of investors together, (your own private equity group) sometimes you can get good deals from banks, as an example buying 10 to 15 properties all at one time from a banks foreclosed property collection. During the due diligence period have your team estimate the renovation; your attorney check for clear title, if there are expensive surprises renegotiate your price or walk away. Personally I like speed so I’ll give a 14 day inspection period, close in 21 days, no one’s time is wasted theirs or mine. You must have your team in place and ready to do quick evaluations, if I need more than 14 days I extend the inspection period.

This is the ditch digging of the real estate investment business, no one likes to do it, its tedious and time consuming but it works. Most investors are too lazy to spend the time and effort it takes to find the good deals, you should be working at it 6-8 hours a day. Just keep looking and making offers and you will find success and remember the money is made when you buy.

The biggest obstacle IMHO is the Thai mentality that they will not sell at a loss and generally are very averse to maintaining their properties hence most are not even painted from one century to the next. Even the banks will not sell if the loan, fees and outstanding interest is not covered which is often above the market price. Perhaps the best place to buy is the auctions which take place to sell property subject to court orders and the like although they are also a fix between the Thais.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[xylophone]

I have bought, renovated and sold two houses here in Patong and made a profit on both of them in excess of that which you stated, however I probably wouldn't do it again!

The first house I bought, was really to do up and live in, so as others have said, I didn't really have it in mind to sell, however I did want it to have a good resale price if I ever did want to sell it. In addition I managed to negotiate the price down (the owner was a farang) to one which I thought made it a good buy in my eyes, this especially as I was going to do just about all of the "renovations" myself, mainly because I was bored and wanted something to do.

The areas that I absolutely hate doing, such as painting and tiling, I managed to get some good Thai workers in to complete, with the minimum of overseeing, so that I could carry on my work, whilst they were doing theirs.

Lived in it for a few years, keeping it up to scratch and eventually sold it, although as I have said in another post, I did market it very hard and it was hard and tedious work.

The problem now being that house prices have fallen quite markedly since I sold it almost 4 years ago, and it has just been resold again at 4 million baht, which is what I originally paid for it back in 2007. In addition, the other houses around it seem to have been "let go" quite a bit and the little soi does not seem as neat and tidy as it used to.

Would I buy there again, no, because there are similar houses to mine in the same little soi which have been on the market since I first bought mine back in 2007 and the place looks run down.

I also bought a dog of a little house in another soi and rather wished I hadn't, because it was damned hard work getting it back up to scratch and I had to market that extremely hard with a lot of footwork involved, but eventually sold it.

As I said before, I wouldn't do it again, because in Patong there are many such houses for sale and although the prices don't seem to drop as the houses become more dilapidated, there are a few owners (usually farang, certainly not Thai) who would drop their price under negotiation. But then again there are still many other houses for sale, and literally thousands of condo/apartments being thrown up, so I don't see a future for being able to make a profit in this area any more – – indeed if one wanted to wait long enough I'm sure there will be lots of cheaply priced condos/apartments come onto the market within the next two years.

[Robert2006]

When real estate investing is concerned it seems people think good deals are somewhat easy to find, I can assure you they are not. Unless you get lucky finding a good buy is a lot of work, like sometimes having to look at 100 to 200 properties to find a deal that makes sense.

When I find a property I’m interested in I determine what I want to pay for it and I instantly make an offer, a written offer, usually in the form of a simple “letter of intent”. You should be making at least 5 offers a week because most of them will be rejected. You need to be good at estimating property values, that skill comes from looking at property every day, day in and day out. If you can get a group of investors together, (your own private equity group) sometimes you can get good deals from banks, as an example buying 10 to 15 properties all at one time from a banks foreclosed property collection. During the due diligence period have your team estimate the renovation; your attorney check for clear title, if there are expensive surprises renegotiate your price or walk away. Personally I like speed so I’ll give a 14 day inspection period, close in 21 days, no one’s time is wasted theirs or mine. You must have your team in place and ready to do quick evaluations, if I need more than 14 days I extend the inspection period.

This is the ditch digging of the real estate investment business, no one likes to do it, its tedious and time consuming but it works. Most investors are too lazy to spend the time and effort it takes to find the good deals, you should be working at it 6-8 hours a day. Just keep looking and making offers and you will find success and remember the money is made when you buy.

The biggest obstacle IMHO is the Thai mentality that they will not sell at a loss and generally are very averse to maintaining their properties hence most are not even painted from one century to the next. Even the banks will not sell if the loan, fees and outstanding interest is not covered which is often above the market price. Perhaps the best place to buy is the auctions which take place to sell property subject to court orders and the like although they are also a fix between the Thais.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Sellers typically want more than their property is worth but real estate investing has always been that way. Personally I don’t concern myself much at all with what a Seller is asking for a property, it’s meaningless to me, I offer what I need to make the deal work for me, if the Seller rejects my offer I will simply move on. Real estate investing has always been a numbers game, 99% of my offers are rejected but I only need the 1% to make nice annual income. Prospecting for a deal is time consuming and tedious, most investors won’t do the work it takes to find deals. Potential investors need to be realistic, if your are looking for easy money in real estate investing you will be disappointed because it’s a lot of work to be successful and if you rush the process and make a mistake buying the wrong deal it can be an expensive lesson.

This is a very lucrative field for the people that take the time and the effort to get good at the skill. You want to invest in Thailand you can start by looking at 5 properties a day, that’s 25 a week, 100 a month, 1,200 a year and be patient deals are not easy to find. When you’re comfortable in your knowledge of the market start making at least 5 offers a week, most of them (99%) will be rejected don’t worry about that you’re looking for the 1%. If you’re going to make money as a real estate investor you’ve got to get out there and do the work.

[ldnguy]

When real estate investing is concerned it seems people think good deals are somewhat easy to find, I can assure you they are not. Unless you get lucky finding a good buy is a lot of work, like sometimes having to look at 100 to 200 properties to find a deal that makes sense.

When I find a property I’m interested in I determine what I want to pay for it and I instantly make an offer, a written offer, usually in the form of a simple “letter of intent”. You should be making at least 5 offers a week because most of them will be rejected. You need to be good at estimating property values, that skill comes from looking at property every day, day in and day out. If you can get a group of investors together, (your own private equity group) sometimes you can get good deals from banks, as an example buying 10 to 15 properties all at one time from a banks foreclosed property collection. During the due diligence period have your team estimate the renovation; your attorney check for clear title, if there are expensive surprises renegotiate your price or walk away. Personally I like speed so I’ll give a 14 day inspection period, close in 21 days, no one’s time is wasted theirs or mine. You must have your team in place and ready to do quick evaluations, if I need more than 14 days I extend the inspection period.

This is the ditch digging of the real estate investment business, no one likes to do it, its tedious and time consuming but it works. Most investors are too lazy to spend the time and effort it takes to find the good deals, you should be working at it 6-8 hours a day. Just keep looking and making offers and you will find success and remember the money is made when you buy.

This is basically what I used to do back in the UK. I used to quite like looking at houses all day, so while it was hard work sometimes, it wasn't so bad. I just put offers in on the ones I thought would work and occasionally someone said yes. That's all you need really. Just don't dwell on the rejections, move on, forget about them.

I've seen some people find one house and get fixated on it and stop looking at others. That's not the way to do it.

Great advice. Thanks.

[ldnguy]

When real estate investing is concerned it seems people think good deals are somewhat easy to find, I can assure you they are not. Unless you get lucky finding a good buy is a lot of work, like sometimes having to look at 100 to 200 properties to find a deal that makes sense.

When I find a property I’m interested in I determine what I want to pay for it and I instantly make an offer, a written offer, usually in the form of a simple “letter of intent”. You should be making at least 5 offers a week because most of them will be rejected. You need to be good at estimating property values, that skill comes from looking at property every day, day in and day out. If you can get a group of investors together, (your own private equity group) sometimes you can get good deals from banks, as an example buying 10 to 15 properties all at one time from a banks foreclosed property collection. During the due diligence period have your team estimate the renovation; your attorney check for clear title, if there are expensive surprises renegotiate your price or walk away. Personally I like speed so I’ll give a 14 day inspection period, close in 21 days, no one’s time is wasted theirs or mine. You must have your team in place and ready to do quick evaluations, if I need more than 14 days I extend the inspection period.

This is the ditch digging of the real estate investment business, no one likes to do it, its tedious and time consuming but it works. Most investors are too lazy to spend the time and effort it takes to find the good deals, you should be working at it 6-8 hours a day. Just keep looking and making offers and you will find success and remember the money is made when you buy.

The biggest obstacle IMHO is the Thai mentality that they will not sell at a loss and generally are very averse to maintaining their properties hence most are not even painted from one century to the next. Even the banks will not sell if the loan, fees and outstanding interest is not covered which is often above the market price. Perhaps the best place to buy is the auctions which take place to sell property subject to court orders and the like although they are also a fix between the Thais.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Probably not as willing to drop prices as Westerners. but you only need one. My gf's father bought a house a year or so ago for 50% of what it was worth because the Thai owner wanted a quick sale. There are some distressed Thai sellers that will drop the price. He wasn't even looking for a house, but a relative just phoned him and told him about it. He agreed that it was too good to miss.

[ldnguy]

I have bought, renovated and sold two houses here in Patong and made a profit on both of them in excess of that which you stated, however I probably wouldn't do it again!

The first house I bought, was really to do up and live in, so as others have said, I didn't really have it in mind to sell, however I did want it to have a good resale price if I ever did want to sell it. In addition I managed to negotiate the price down (the owner was a farang) to one which I thought made it a good buy in my eyes, this especially as I was going to do just about all of the "renovations" myself, mainly because I was bored and wanted something to do.

The areas that I absolutely hate doing, such as painting and tiling, I managed to get some good Thai workers in to complete, with the minimum of overseeing, so that I could carry on my work, whilst they were doing theirs.

Lived in it for a few years, keeping it up to scratch and eventually sold it, although as I have said in another post, I did market it very hard and it was hard and tedious work.

The problem now being that house prices have fallen quite markedly since I sold it almost 4 years ago, and it has just been resold again at 4 million baht, which is what I originally paid for it back in 2007. In addition, the other houses around it seem to have been "let go" quite a bit and the little soi does not seem as neat and tidy as it used to.

Would I buy there again, no, because there are similar houses to mine in the same little soi which have been on the market since I first bought mine back in 2007 and the place looks run down.

I also bought a dog of a little house in another soi and rather wished I hadn't, because it was damned hard work getting it back up to scratch and I had to market that extremely hard with a lot of footwork involved, but eventually sold it.

As I said before, I wouldn't do it again, because in Patong there are many such houses for sale and although the prices don't seem to drop as the houses become more dilapidated, there are a few owners (usually farang, certainly not Thai) who would drop their price under negotiation. But then again there are still many other houses for sale, and literally thousands of condo/apartments being thrown up, so I don't see a future for being able to make a profit in this area any more – – indeed if one wanted to wait long enough I'm sure there will be lots of cheaply priced condos/apartments come onto the market within the next two years.

That's one of the things that puts me off even buying for myself to live in. If the neighbors don't care about their house the whole area can go downhill fast. Then no-one wants to buy.

It's interesting that you made a profit and now the prices is back to where it was in 2007.

[huawei]

Other than having the mis fortune to marry someone who turns out to be a right fruit cake , I can't think of anything more stressful to do !

[xylophone]

I have bought, renovated and sold two houses here in Patong and made a profit on both of them in excess of that which you stated, however I probably wouldn't do it again!

The first house I bought, was really to do up and live in, so as others have said, I didn't really have it in mind to sell, however I did want it to have a good resale price if I ever did want to sell it. In addition I managed to negotiate the price down (the owner was a farang) to one which I thought made it a good buy in my eyes, this especially as I was going to do just about all of the "renovations" myself, mainly because I was bored and wanted something to do.

The areas that I absolutely hate doing, such as painting and tiling, I managed to get some good Thai workers in to complete, with the minimum of overseeing, so that I could carry on my work, whilst they were doing theirs.

Lived in it for a few years, keeping it up to scratch and eventually sold it, although as I have said in another post, I did market it very hard and it was hard and tedious work.

The problem now being that house prices have fallen quite markedly since I sold it almost 4 years ago, and it has just been resold again at 4 million baht, which is what I originally paid for it back in 2007. In addition, the other houses around it seem to have been "let go" quite a bit and the little soi does not seem as neat and tidy as it used to.

Would I buy there again, no, because there are similar houses to mine in the same little soi which have been on the market since I first bought mine back in 2007 and the place looks run down.

I also bought a dog of a little house in another soi and rather wished I hadn't, because it was damned hard work getting it back up to scratch and I had to market that extremely hard with a lot of footwork involved, but eventually sold it.

As I said before, I wouldn't do it again, because in Patong there are many such houses for sale and although the prices don't seem to drop as the houses become more dilapidated, there are a few owners (usually farang, certainly not Thai) who would drop their price under negotiation. But then again there are still many other houses for sale, and literally thousands of condo/apartments being thrown up, so I don't see a future for being able to make a profit in this area any more – – indeed if one wanted to wait long enough I'm sure there will be lots of cheaply priced condos/apartments come onto the market within the next two years.

That's one of the things that puts me off even buying for myself to live in. If the neighbors don't care about their house the whole area can go downhill fast. Then no-one wants to buy.

It's interesting that you made a profit and now the prices is back to where it was in 2007.

You make a couple of good points and I think I was lucky because a few of the houses either side of me and also some opposite were owned by farangs and were kept in reasonably good condition, and this helped when I went to sell mine. Although now the place has gone downhill quite considerably as some of the aforementioned houses are up for sale, and some are rented, and they really don't look very flash at all, nor does the Soi in general.

As for the price, yes it is interesting that the house was sold again for 4 million baht, although the asking price was over 5 million, as are the prices of some of the other similar ones for sale, so for the right price they will sell, albeit still slowly.

It's also worth remembering that there are not the same amount of buyers in the marketplace as there used to be, what with the GFC, the baht staying relatively high against a few other key currencies, rumours about the "house ownership through the company method" being investigated and of course the recent turmoil as regards the military coup.

I suppose an added downside to what you are proposing, especially if it is a house, is the fact that so many cheap,small, boxlike condos/apartments have been thrown up and rather than risk a lot of money on a house, the land upon which they can never own, perhaps some folks are prepared to take a punt on something a lot cheaper and which they can basically lock up and leave, or rent out for a relatively small sum if they don't want to live here full time?

[ldnguy]

Other than having the mis fortune to marry someone who turns out to be a right fruit cake , I can't think of anything more stressful to do !

There is an easy solution - don't do it. There are things that Id find stressful, so I don't do them. You make your own life, so it doesn't matter that this isn't for you. Do something else.

I find the whole process quite enjoyable. Of course there is some stress at times, but that's not really a bad thing.

[huawei]

Other than having the mis fortune to marry someone who turns out to be a right fruit cake , I can't think of anything more stressful to do !

There is an easy solution - don't do it. There are things that Id find stressful, so I don't do them. You make your own life, so it doesn't matter that this isn't for you. Do something else.

I find the whole process quite enjoyable. Of course there is some stress at times, but that's not really a bad thing.

Good luck with it.

If you find the process enjoyable then that's usually the foundation of success.

[PattayaPhom]

I'd need to make a minimum of 500K baht profit.

Whats your initial investment...hopefully THB 4,500,000 at least?