Three Myanmar witnesses are to testify in advance on Koh Tao murder case

[smokie36]

Steve is just being an ass now....best ignored IMHO.

[Oscar2]

Steve is just being an ass now....best ignored IMHO.

he's been an ignorant RTP ass kisser from day one.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why? Where am I going next Tuesday? I didn't realise that you were setting my agenda?

I don't take drugs, or smoke cigarettes for that matter (I'm too sensible for that).

I repeat, scratching/tickling someone under the arm pit in a vigorous manner does not make someone admit to rape and murder.

Raping and murdering people and leaving your DNA inside for the police to find does however lead to confessions, especially when it can commute your death sentence to life imprisonment if you repent.

You are almost right about one thing. A long time ago I conditioned myself to not being ticklish under the arm pits (its true, I am not) - I can tell you, that unless those scratches were 0.1 MM deeper then I wouldn't have been screaming from the roof top! A fraction deeper than that and I would admit to anything! Especially if it drew blood. Wouldn't everyone?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Steve is just being an ass now....best ignored IMHO.

he's been an ignorant RTP ass kisser from day one.

Wrong!

I have been their biggest and most vocal critic when challenged on this.

They are abject, incompetent, corrupt, and what's more they could have been responsible for letting two illegal immigrants get away with murder and rape. Fortunately, I think that the evidence is so substantial that even their numerous cock-ups all along the line will not be enough to allow this to happen.

There you go - it's on the record again. Sack the lot of them and get a proper police force that doesn't worship Thaksin's money!

[DerekMarshall]

I don't believe for a second that there are 3 more witnesses,

What I do believe is,

there should have been blood on that phone

there should have been blood in their shower stalls

there should have been blood on a hand rail on a staircase by their apt.

where did these alleged rape-killers clean up?

The beach where they (allegedly) dumped one of the bodies?

I have seen, and I presume, Burmese taking a full bath in the moat in Chiang Mai!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Steve is just being an ass now....best ignored IMHO.

Suits me my friend - I can just blaze away at you and you will be firing blanks.

[DerekMarshall]

Why are the RTP not searching for teh 3rd rapist/killer?

2 different seamen samples were found in the body

1 condom was found nearby,

By deduction 3 rapists, 1 used a condom and 2 did not! So why is the case closed while the other rapist/killer is still out there?

Even if we assume, rightly or wrongly the two Burmese kids are guilty, what about the 3rd rapist/killer?

I´d love to see a good old fashioned "mat lock" type lawyer get up there and cross examine the RTP and their handling of the case!

Beyond reasonable doubt, any decent lawyer would find it easy to fire holes in the prosecutions case, due to the police handling of it!

Edited October 14, 2014 by DerekMarshall

[Dogmatix]

Here are two blogs that provide very insightful background on police and mafia activities on Koh Tao.

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

http://drugsinthailand.blogspot.com/2009/06/my-koh-tao-story.html

The first is good general information about the 5 mafia families there, while the second is a chilling personal experience that illustrates police involvement in the drug trade, extortion and setting up patsies.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why are the RTP not searching for teh 3rd rapist/killer?

2 different seamen samples were found in the body

1 condom was found nearby,

By deduction 3 rapists, 1 used a condom and 2 did not! So why is the case closed while the other rapist/killer is still out there?

Even if we assume, rightly or wrongly the two Burmese kids are guilty, what about the 3rd rapist/killer?

I´d love to see a good old fashioned "mat lock" type lawyer get up there and cross examine the RTP and their handling of the case!

Beyond reasonable doubt, any decent lawyer would find it easy to fire holes in the prosecutions case, due to the police handling of it!

You bring up some sensible points here.

What my thinking leads me to believe is that the rapists/killers murdered him first whilst someone stopped her from running away -then they set about raping her in turn. The two Burmese men went first (they didn't use a condom as they testified to in their confessions). then the third rapist (probably a farang) used a condom to try and cover up his taking part in the horrific gang rape. Panicked about what they had just committed, they decided to kill her, he discarded the condom at the scene and they all fled in a hurry.

This would also explain why the Burmese men 'let the cat out of the bag' about them being the rapists in their surprise at their semen being on the outside of the condom. Think about it, this was transferred to the outside of the condom as their semen was already present inside the woman when the third unknown man raped her.

I therefore think that it is highly likely that they are covering up for whoever the third man is as it is inconceivable that they didn't find semen inside the condom as this is what a condom is designed to do (collect the ejaculated semen).

They need to disclose who exactly they are covering up for and they (the police) must be heavily punished for their actions in perverting the course of justice on such a highly serious case involving both murder and rape!

This culture of the police being paid off with bribes to cover up for other people's illegal acts and misdemeanours has got to stop and the police must be held accountable for it, when it goes on!

In no uncertain terms it must be pointed out to them that is unacceptable and punishments must be metered out to reflect the seriousness of their actions.

[BritTim]

Their lawyers stated publicly, that they were tortured,

they surely took photos

I am sure they did take photos if they were allowed to take cameras into the interview. Similarly, I am sure they recorded the interview if allowed to use recording equipment.

The Thai authorities could scarcely hold the accused incognito, refusing consular access, for ever. However, they will have done everything possible to limit the opportunity of the accused to reveal what was happening to them in custody. Similarly the accused will eventually need legal representation. Normally, the accused lawyers in such cases (like the translator) would be appointed by the police. They may be forced to accept lawyers working for the accused interests in this case.

Looking at the two accused, I find it incredible that they could subdue much bigger and stronger people without suffering any injuries themselves. I have seen no suggestion that they are some kind of martial arts experts or any other explanation of how this could be possible.

I am pessimistic, but the spotlight being focused gives me some hope, not that the real perpetrators will face justice, but at least that these Burmese kids will eventually be freed.

[DerekMarshall]

Why are the RTP not searching for teh 3rd rapist/killer?

2 different seamen samples were found in the body

1 condom was found nearby,

By deduction 3 rapists, 1 used a condom and 2 did not! So why is the case closed while the other rapist/killer is still out there?

Even if we assume, rightly or wrongly the two Burmese kids are guilty, what about the 3rd rapist/killer?

I´d love to see a good old fashioned "mat lock" type lawyer get up there and cross examine the RTP and their handling of the case!

Beyond reasonable doubt, any decent lawyer would find it easy to fire holes in the prosecutions case, due to the police handling of it!

You bring up some sensible points here.

What my thinking leads me to believe is that the rapists/killers murdered him first whilst someone stopped her from running away -then they set about raping her in turn. The two Burmese men went first (they didn't use a condom as they testified to in their confessions). then the third rapist (probably a farang) used a condom to try and cover up his taking part in the horrific gang rape. Panicked about what they had just committed, they decided to kill her, he discarded the condom at the scene and they all fled in a hurry.

This would also explain why the Burmese men 'let the cat out of the bag' about them being the rapists in their surprise at their semen being on the outside of the condom. Think about it, this was transferred to the outside of the condom as their semen was already present inside the woman when the third unknown man raped her.

I therefore think that it is highly likely that they are covering up for whoever the third man is as it is inconceivable that they didn't find semen inside the condom as this is what a condom is designed to do (collect the ejaculated semen).

They need to disclose who exactly they are covering up for and they (the police) must be heavily punished for their actions in perverting the course of justice on such a highly serious case involving both murder and rape!

This culture of the police being paid off with bribes to cover up for other people's illegal acts and misdemeanours has got to stop and the police must be held accountable for it, when it goes on!

In no uncertain terms it must be pointed out to them that is unacceptable and punishments must be metered out to reflect the seriousness of their actions.

Why would a farang commit rape when it is not exactly difficult to pull (paid or otherwise) a local girl? sex is defo not hard to come by in Thailand for a westerner.

[phuketandsee]

Derek, rape is not about sex. It's about power, control and violence.

Steve, why on earth would the Burmese try and cover for a falang??

However, I am beginning to wonder if the British have found a DNA match with a certain elusive Scotsman.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why are the RTP not searching for teh 3rd rapist/killer?

2 different seamen samples were found in the body

1 condom was found nearby,

By deduction 3 rapists, 1 used a condom and 2 did not! So why is the case closed while the other rapist/killer is still out there?

Even if we assume, rightly or wrongly the two Burmese kids are guilty, what about the 3rd rapist/killer?

I´d love to see a good old fashioned "mat lock" type lawyer get up there and cross examine the RTP and their handling of the case!

Beyond reasonable doubt, any decent lawyer would find it easy to fire holes in the prosecutions case, due to the police handling of it!

You bring up some sensible points here.

What my thinking leads me to believe is that the rapists/killers murdered him first whilst someone stopped her from running away -then they set about raping her in turn. The two Burmese men went first (they didn't use a condom as they testified to in their confessions). then the third rapist (probably a farang) used a condom to try and cover up his taking part in the horrific gang rape. Panicked about what they had just committed, they decided to kill her, he discarded the condom at the scene and they all fled in a hurry.

This would also explain why the Burmese men 'let the cat out of the bag' about them being the rapists in their surprise at their semen being on the outside of the condom. Think about it, this was transferred to the outside of the condom as their semen was already present inside the woman when the third unknown man raped her.

I therefore think that it is highly likely that they are covering up for whoever the third man is as it is inconceivable that they didn't find semen inside the condom as this is what a condom is designed to do (collect the ejaculated semen).

They need to disclose who exactly they are covering up for and they (the police) must be heavily punished for their actions in perverting the course of justice on such a highly serious case involving both murder and rape!

This culture of the police being paid off with bribes to cover up for other people's illegal acts and misdemeanours has got to stop and the police must be held accountable for it, when it goes on!

In no uncertain terms it must be pointed out to them that is unacceptable and punishments must be metered out to reflect the seriousness of their actions.

Why would a farang commit rape when it is not exactly difficult to pull (paid or otherwise) a local girl? sex is defo not hard to come by in Thailand for a westerner.

Why in that case do married men with 3 kids rape women when they are clearly able to get sex pretty much when they want from their wife

It is a lot to do with overpowering them and being in total control. Seems a bit bazaar and senseless for the likes of you and me - but they must get an adrenaline rush from doing something that is wrong, hoping to get away with it.

Why do Hollywood celebrities with stashes of money in their bank accounts go and shop lift basic things?

Money and power makes people do irrational things, don't know why, but it happens!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Derek, rape is not about sex. It's about power, control and violence.

Steve, why on earth would the Burmese try and cover for a falang??

However, I am beginning to wonder if the British have found a DNA match with a certain elusive Scotsman.

Maybe this will all come out in court.

I think that the biggest problem here is that the police rather foolishly tried to cover for 'the third man and don't know how to deal with the situation now that social media has jumped on the case in such a massive way.

They have dug such a big hole for themselves that those involved in perverting the course of justice (the police investigators and other interested parties such as friends or relations of him) should face some pretty severe punishment as rapes were committed and more pertinently 2 people have lost their lives!

If the Burmese were pressurised (I don't believe this was with torturing) then it is more likely to do with covering up for the unknown rapist to save his and the police's skins.

We know now that these 2 are rapists and identifying the unknown one is what this is all about now. I firmly believe (just my opinion mind you) that the 2 Burmese men are the killers and that the third man probably didn't want this (the killings) to happen as this has turned a prison sentence into a likely execution scenario.

[phuketandsee]

AD reporting British police "may" also have DNA of the killers, or at least rapists of Hannah.

[canuckamuck]

Why are the RTP not searching for teh 3rd rapist/killer?

2 different seamen samples were found in the body

1 condom was found nearby,

By deduction 3 rapists, 1 used a condom and 2 did not! So why is the case closed while the other rapist/killer is still out there?

Even if we assume, rightly or wrongly the two Burmese kids are guilty, what about the 3rd rapist/killer?

I´d love to see a good old fashioned "mat lock" type lawyer get up there and cross examine the RTP and their handling of the case!

Beyond reasonable doubt, any decent lawyer would find it easy to fire holes in the prosecutions case, due to the police handling of it!

You bring up some sensible points here.

What my thinking leads me to believe is that the rapists/killers murdered him first whilst someone stopped her from running away -then they set about raping her in turn. The two Burmese men went first (they didn't use a condom as they testified to in their confessions). then the third rapist (probably a farang) used a condom to try and cover up his taking part in the horrific gang rape. Panicked about what they had just committed, they decided to kill her, he discarded the condom at the scene and they all fled in a hurry.

This would also explain why the Burmese men 'let the cat out of the bag' about them being the rapists in their surprise at their semen being on the outside of the condom. Think about it, this was transferred to the outside of the condom as their semen was already present inside the woman when the third unknown man raped her.

I therefore think that it is highly likely that they are covering up for whoever the third man is as it is inconceivable that they didn't find semen inside the condom as this is what a condom is designed to do (collect the ejaculated semen).

They need to disclose who exactly they are covering up for and they (the police) must be heavily punished for their actions in perverting the course of justice on such a highly serious case involving both murder and rape!

This culture of the police being paid off with bribes to cover up for other people's illegal acts and misdemeanours has got to stop and the police must be held accountable for it, when it goes on!

In no uncertain terms it must be pointed out to them that is unacceptable and punishments must be metered out to reflect the seriousness of their actions.

Why would a farang commit rape when it is not exactly difficult to pull (paid or otherwise) a local girl? sex is defo not hard to come by in Thailand for a westerner.

That is not the right question to ask. The real question would be why would a farang join up with a couple of undocumented Burmese guys that speak no Thai or English and decide to go out for a bit of super violent gang rape and murder. Hardly seems likely.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Why are the RTP not searching for teh 3rd rapist/killer?

2 different seamen samples were found in the body

1 condom was found nearby,

By deduction 3 rapists, 1 used a condom and 2 did not! So why is the case closed while the other rapist/killer is still out there?

Even if we assume, rightly or wrongly the two Burmese kids are guilty, what about the 3rd rapist/killer?

I´d love to see a good old fashioned "mat lock" type lawyer get up there and cross examine the RTP and their handling of the case!

Beyond reasonable doubt, any decent lawyer would find it easy to fire holes in the prosecutions case, due to the police handling of it!

You bring up some sensible points here.

What my thinking leads me to believe is that the rapists/killers murdered him first whilst someone stopped her from running away -then they set about raping her in turn. The two Burmese men went first (they didn't use a condom as they testified to in their confessions). then the third rapist (probably a farang) used a condom to try and cover up his taking part in the horrific gang rape. Panicked about what they had just committed, they decided to kill her, he discarded the condom at the scene and they all fled in a hurry.

This would also explain why the Burmese men 'let the cat out of the bag' about them being the rapists in their surprise at their semen being on the outside of the condom. Think about it, this was transferred to the outside of the condom as their semen was already present inside the woman when the third unknown man raped her.

I therefore think that it is highly likely that they are covering up for whoever the third man is as it is inconceivable that they didn't find semen inside the condom as this is what a condom is designed to do (collect the ejaculated semen).

They need to disclose who exactly they are covering up for and they (the police) must be heavily punished for their actions in perverting the course of justice on such a highly serious case involving both murder and rape!

This culture of the police being paid off with bribes to cover up for other people's illegal acts and misdemeanours has got to stop and the police must be held accountable for it, when it goes on!

In no uncertain terms it must be pointed out to them that is unacceptable and punishments must be metered out to reflect the seriousness of their actions.

Why would a farang commit rape when it is not exactly difficult to pull (paid or otherwise) a local girl? sex is defo not hard to come by in Thailand for a westerner.

That is not the right question to ask. The real question would be why would a farang join up with a couple of undocumented Burmese guys that speak no Thai or English and decide to go out for a bit of super violent gang rape and murder. Hardly seems likely.

So you think that it was 3 Burmese that were involved - could well be.

Actually, the more I think about it, I think that it was only these two that perpetrated this whole crime.

The condom aspect is a mystery - but one thing it did do is confirm their guilt of the rapes (maybe inadvertently so after the police planted the condom).

People have been caught over the years from putting out statements such as this (semen was found on the outside of the condom).

An example as to how this works is to say that you have proof that someone shot somebody.

They come back with - you are lying about that as I stabbed them to death and don't even own a gun!

Edited October 14, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[DennisF]

I can see nothing that indicates canuckamuck thinks ANY Burmese were the killers, amateur attempt at putting words in mouth noted.

[wilcopops]

When will the Amateur Sherlocks take the hint and give up!?!?!?!

[phuketandsee]

I have read a lot of strange comments about the condom. As I recall the RTP said Hannah's DNA was found on the outside but no DNA on the inside - i.e. nothing about semen inside or out.

[Robby nz]

That is not the right question to ask. The real question would be why would a farang join up with a couple of undocumented Burmese guys that speak no Thai or English and decide to go out for a bit of super violent gang rape and murder. Hardly seems likely.

So you think that it was 3 Burmese that were involved - could well be.

Actually, the more I think about it, I think that it was only these two that perpetrated this whole crime.

The condom aspect is a mystery - but one thing it did do is confirm their guilt of the rapes (maybe inadvertently so after the police planted the condom).

People have been caught over the years from putting out statements such as this (semen was found on the outside of the condom).

An example as to how this works is to say that you have proof that someone shot somebody.

They come back with - you are lying about that as I stabbed them to death and don't even own a gun!

As you have put a lot of faith on the (dubious) fact that the accused's DNA was on the outside of the condom could you possibly explain why on the 26th of September the police chief did not mention this when he said :

Posted 2014-09-26 06:52:47

SPECIAL REPORT

Investigation into Koh Tao murders seriously flawed

Then there's the most puzzling piece of evidence only made public for the first time on Wednesday by deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I have read a lot of strange comments about the condom. As I recall the RTP said Hannah's DNA was found on the outside but no DNA on the inside - i.e. nothing about semen inside or out.

"Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they

said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their

sperm had been found on a condom linked to the scene".

Extract from an article in the Washington Post that attempts to clear them (the Burmese) - I guess that this bit escaped the editing of the article designed to make for their defence.

[Robby nz]

I have read a lot of strange comments about the condom. As I recall the RTP said Hannah's DNA was found on the outside but no DNA on the inside - i.e. nothing about semen inside or out.

"Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they

said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their

sperm had been found on a condom linked to the scene".

Extract from an article in the Washington Post that attempts to clear them (the Burmese) - I guess that this bit escaped the editing of the article designed to make for their defence.

No Steve you don't know what they said and you don't know what they were asked.

All you know is what the police said they said. And you get this information from an overseas publication and trust it implicitly.

Possibly they were asked about condoms as per, do you use condoms ?

Answer 'no we don't use condoms'.

Police conclusion 'they did not use a condom when raping'

Look at my previous post and answer please.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I have read a lot of strange comments about the condom. As I recall the RTP said Hannah's DNA was found on the outside but no DNA on the inside - i.e. nothing about semen inside or out.

"Now there’s confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they

said they hadn’t used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their

sperm had been found on a condom linked to the scene".

Extract from an article in the Washington Post that attempts to clear them (the Burmese) - I guess that this bit escaped the editing of the article designed to make for their defence.

No Steve you don't know what they said and you don't know what they were asked.

All you know is what the police said they said. And you get this information from an overseas publication and trust it implicitly.

Possibly they were asked about condoms as per, do you use condoms ?

Answer 'no we don't use condoms'.

Police conclusion 'they did not use a condom when raping'

Look at my previous post and answer please.

In effect, they said that the police must be lying because they stated that semen was found on the outside of the condoms.

As they went on to say they didn't use condoms WHEN THEY SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HER then how could their DNA be on the outside of the condom.

So, in refuting the police evidence they plain flat admitted they had carried out the rapes!

[canuckamuck]

I am amazed at the discussion of inside or outside the condom. They are easily reversible once rolled out.

Can you say for sure which is the outside?

[wilcopops]

Jesus wept! If it wasn't for real it ewould be a comedy show.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I am amazed at the discussion of inside or outside the condom. They are easily reversible once rolled out.

Can you say for sure which is the outside?

The outside is always on the outside of the inside and the inside is always on the inside of the outside!!

I hope that helps.

[jacky54]

obviously she handled it but was never used

[Robby nz]

No Steve you don't know what they said and you don't know what they were asked.

All you know is what the police said they said. And you get this information from an overseas publication and trust it implicitly.

Possibly they were asked about condoms as per, do you use condoms ?

Answer 'no we don't use condoms'.

Police conclusion 'they did not use a condom when raping'

Look at my previous post and answer please.

In effect, they said that the police must be lying because they stated that semen was found on the outside of the condoms.

As they went on to say they didn't use condoms WHEN THEY SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HER then how could their DNA be on the outside of the condom.

So, in refuting the police evidence they plain flat admitted they had carried out the rapes!

Please try to read Steve rather than just believing what the police said they said as was reported in overseas press..

deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

Please explain where there sperm came from when the deputy police chief said that only Witheridge's DNA was on the outside of the condom.

The sperm on the outside of the condom is completely new as it was not mentioned by the deputy police chief when he made his statement on Wednesday 24th September as reported on Friday 26th September.

[SICHONSTEVE]

No Steve you don't know what they said and you don't know what they were asked.

All you know is what the police said they said. And you get this information from an overseas publication and trust it implicitly.

Possibly they were asked about condoms as per, do you use condoms ?

Answer 'no we don't use condoms'.

Police conclusion 'they did not use a condom when raping'

Look at my previous post and answer please.

In effect, they said that the police must be lying because they stated that semen was found on the outside of the condoms.

As they went on to say they didn't use condoms WHEN THEY SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HER then how could their DNA be on the outside of the condom.

So, in refuting the police evidence they plain flat admitted they had carried out the rapes!

Please try to read Steve rather than just believing what the police said they said as was reported in overseas press..

deputy national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompanmoung - a condom found in the area that had Witheridge's DNA on the outside but nothing on the inside.

Please explain where there sperm came from when the deputy police chief said that only Witheridge's DNA was on the outside of the condom.

The sperm on the outside of the condom is completely new as it was not mentioned by the deputy police chief when he made his statement on Wednesday 24th September as reported on Friday 26th September.

Why have you have added the word only - they found both of the Burmese sperm on the outside of the condom as well as Hannah's.

This is not my argument - I am pointing out that in attempting to dispute the police evidence they stated that they indeed raped her.

No denying that fact.